Mental Health

[KatieOConnor]

I'm wondering what personal matters need to be revealed when one is applying to medical school. For instance, if an applicant has spent time in a mental institution, can this possibly be a problem? Does this information need to be revealed?

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[Eraserhead]

That's tough. I would say tell the truth in all cases but don't bring up something like that unless its extremely pertinent to something that would help you get in. In most cases, it seems like this would hurt you. I think 70% of the interview consists of verifying that you are in good mental health- and not stressed easily and communicating openly with people. But if you look like you are hiding something that could be a problem too- so if you are asked directly if you've ever had psychological problems, I'd say explain them and how things have changed since then and how it would never be a problem in medical school (assuming this is about you). Overcoming tough situations like a serious depression would be impressive in many ways as long as you don't appear as though you will be depressed again, etc.

 

[Squat n Squeeze]

Medicine has enough problems. The last thing it needs is physicians who belong in the bin. Please, do yourself and society a favor. Never apply to medical school.

 

[KatieOConnor]

I guess my argument, if my history were to be discovered, and someone asked me about it in an interview, would be that I've gone through some sh** and faced my problems. I am in a better position than someone who has a massive nervous breakdown looming in the future, when they GET to med school or become a doctor.

I guess I will discuss this with my psychopharmacologist. She went to med school and might have some info about the process, and whether there is any way (which there probably isn't, with HIPAA and all) that my past will come back to haunt me.

 

[GoodMonkey]

Originally posted by Squat n Squeeze
Medicine has enough problems. The last thing it needs is physicians who belong in the bin.

well i guess this rules you out, then, huh?

 

[DannGee]

Originally posted by KatieOConnor
I guess my argument, if my history were to be discovered, and someone asked me about it in an interview, would be that I've gone through some sh** and faced my problems. I am in a better position than someone who has a massive nervous breakdown looming in the future, when they GET to med school or become a doctor.

I guess I will discuss this with my psychopharmacologist. She went to med school and might have some info about the process, and whether there is any way (which there probably isn't, with HIPAA and all) that my past will come back to haunt me.

when i was 15 years old, i had problems with drug abuse and spent some time in inpatient treatment. I became depressed after a friend committed suicide, and had some problems coping with it. I actually included this in my personal statement because it was an event that really helped me to decide i wanted to become a doctor.

The advice I've gotten is to be as honest as you can, especially if you've shown that you've overcome your difficulties, LEARNED something, and have had success since your hospitalization. However, I can see how it might be a more difficult choice if your problems were more recent- I don't think they have any legal access to that information, but I'm sure it would relieve a lot of worry if you just got everything out in the open.

Hope this helps!

 

[KatieOConnor]

Yeah, I thought there was something familiar about Squat and Squeeze. Were we in the mental institution at the same time?

I think you were the one in the corner, making water balloons out of condoms and drooling.

 

[Squat n Squeeze]

Originally posted by KatieOConnor
Yeah, I thought there was something familiar about Squat and Squeeze. Were we in the mental institution at the same time?

I think you were the one in the corner, making water balloons out of condoms and drooling.

At least I wasn't like you, standing in a catatonic stare interrupted only by the flinging of feces every 15 minutes.

 

[ckent]

I just wouldn't bring it up Katie. There are people who have had all sorts of medical problems in medical school and have gone on to become successful physicians. By law, med schools are not supposed to ask you about it and they cannot require you to admit to it. The only way that it could come up is if you had a gap in your education because of it, for which you can always say that you had health problems that would account for that gap and leave it at that.

P.S. set squat and squeeze on "ignore" like most of us on sdn have already done by clicking "user cp" at the top of your screen, then "edit ignore list" and adding his name to your list.

 

[womansurg]

Originally posted by Squat n Squeeze
Medicine has enough problems. The last thing it needs is physicians who belong in the bin. Please, do yourself and society a favor. Never apply to medical school.

You know, I'm starting to understand the allure of being a troll. I allow myself to bust people's chops a little bit, but I do it under my own identity. Think of the power of the anonymity! You could say any wacked out thing you wanted (case in point - see the above), and never suffer consequences aside from having to set up a new account every few weeks.

What fun!

Yes, I realize that this was something that was apparent to everyone else from the get-go. I'm a little slow in the devious scheming department.

 

[womansurg]

Originally posted by KatieOConnor
Does this information need to be revealed?

It absolutely needs to be revealed if it is asked of you in an official capacity - on an application, for example.

That question is part of every state board licensure application and most hospital privileges packets. I'm not sure about med schools, but they are sure to be completely on top of the legality of any formal inquiry which is made. In other words, they wouldn't have it their application unless their bevy of high power lawyers assured them that it was legal to do so.

Honesty is always the best policy. Lots of medical professionals have had psychiatric or substance abuse issues. Sure, you'll face some biases with that history, but you'll be able to function and succeed as a physician. On the other hand, falsifying your record will get your license pulled.

Good luck, dear.

 

[Jsscales05]

KatieOConnor, do you remember a doctor by the name of Patch Adams? He spent time in a mental institution before becoming a doctor.

Inspired to become a doctor while institutionalized for depression as a teenager, Patch Adams attended the Medical College of Virginia in the late ?60s and early ?70s. After graduation, he formed the Gesundheit Institute, dedicated to a more connected, personalized approach to medicine.

There ya go.

 

[BlackPuma]

Originally posted by KatieOConnor
I'm wondering what personal matters need to be revealed when one is applying to medical school. For instance, if an applicant has spent time in a mental institution, can this possibly be a problem? Does this information need to be revealed?

75% of all psychiatrists went into the field because they suffered from some sort of psychiatric problem...

so, I don't see why they would use it against you....

but more importantly, don't use your real name on this website...there are administrators and faculty that frequent this website

hopefully it's not your real name...or make some excuse that it isnt ok?

best of luck with your problems....what exactly was the nature of you being in a mental hospital.....

 

[KatieOConnor]

No, this is not my real name. This is a fictional character from a short story.

 

[Stranger]

origionally posed by womansurg

That question is part of every state board licensure application and most hospital privileges packets.

What exactly do they ask?

 

[KatieOConnor]

Maybe my case wasn't such a big deal. I was there for a couple days for depression (shrink thought it was a good idea to go, long story). I returned immediately to work afterwards and my boss was none the wiser about what had happened. Looking back, my trip was probably unnecessary. Sigh. I think the biggest effect of the stay was to make me really paranoid about its impact on my future.

 

[SpiritiualDuck]

Where do you get 75% of psychiatrist had problems and that's why they went into this field? I don't buy it.

I'm considering psychiatry because it's an interesting and rapidly growing field, not because I'm trying to heal myself. Incidentally, I consider myself to be fairly sound and normal--whatever that means.

 

[Wardens]

I don't think psychiatrists would go into the field because they're trying to 'heal' themselves. I think it gives them the position to understand what it's like to have a mental disorder, to lose control of their thoughts and consequently their identity. There's still a stigma with mental disorders, which is why this thread was created. First-hand experience shows you the ridiculousness of this common perception and gives you empathy to deal with patients. Maybe this inspires them to help others. It does for me.

 

[BlackPuma]

Originally posted by KatieOConnor
No, this is not my real name. This is a fictional character from a short story.

ok that is good to hear...b/c the adcoms frequent this website, and that would be really scary if you really screwed over a real katieoconnor

best of luck with everything

 

[BlackPuma]

Originally posted by SpiritiualDuck
Where do you get 75% of psychiatrist had problems and that's why they went into this field? I don't buy it.

I'm considering psychiatry because it's an interesting and rapidly growing field, not because I'm trying to heal myself. Incidentally, I consider myself to be fairly sound and normal--whatever that means.

consider yourself to be part of the 25%

 

[ckent]

I used to be one of those that believed that most people who decided to go into psychiatry were dealing with psych issues themselves and went into the field to help themselves. Then I started talking with a lot of psych residents during my psych rotation, and I discovered that this was not the case. If you talk with a psych intern or a med student interested in going into psych, they are very different then the upper year psych residents and attendings. I concluded, and many psych residents will tell you themselves, that psych residencies make psychiatrists crazy, they don't start their psych residency already crazy. Somebody should do a study on it though. The strangest attendings that I have ever had have been psychiatists.

 

[Paws]

well, I have had some really great counselling and have to say that it has changed my outlook on life and my ability to understand myself and the world around me. I know that medicine is very conservative, so I don't blab about it or anything. But on some of my secondaries I sort of allude to how I have 'worked on my sense of self-awareness...' or something like that. I'm sure that a keen reader will understand what I am saying.

Personally, I think the workd would be lost without good counsellors and social workers to help us understand death and dying, illness, trauma and things like loss or divorce.

I'm not a car mechanic, so I need help with my car. Same thing with my mind and emotions. I sometimes have needed help understanding things, and have called a specialist. Also, alot of my friends are social workers so I feel really comfortable with them. In fact I feel that it is healthy to seek help when we need it, rather than try and struggle thru on our own.

To the OP, you should be fine and if asked I would have a carefully thought out and sensitive answer for the interviewer.

 

[jasonparks]

In my opinion you shouldn't bring it up at all. Being in an institution or having had a substance abuse problem is nothing to be ashamed of. However, many schools are likely to hold it against you, and you have to draw a line between what is their business (test scores, grades, volunteer experiences) and what is not (your love life, sexual orientation, history of mental illness, etc). If you don't feel that it is relevant, then it is not.

 

[Thewonderer]

Originally posted by ckent
If you talk with a psych intern or a med student interested in going into psych, they are very different then the upper year psych residents and attendings. I concluded, and many psych residents will tell you themselves, that psych residencies make psychiatrists crazy, they don't start their psych residency already crazy. Somebody should do a study on it though. The strangest attendings that I have ever had have been psychiatists.

I would not say that psych attendings are weird. I would have to say that people who go into medicine general are weird because they all tend to have obssessive compulsive PD, narcissitic PD with some schizoid PD thrown in there among those who end up doing basic science research

I honestly do not see any major difference between psych MD v.s. MD's in other field except psych MD's in general are more laid back. And I tend to shy away from hanging out with stressed out surgeons.

However, there is one common thread that connects people going into psych and that's they more likely than not have been discouraged from going into psych by their peers (who are aspring cardiologists or orthopods), their family members or the society in general. I mean, when is that last time you heard of parents jumping up and down in excitement hearing the news that their sons and daughters who are going through med school are going into psychiatry? Many of my friends are also confused and think that nobody needs to go through med school to become a psychiatrist and wondering why I am going into a NON-medical field. After a while, you just have to accept that or you will not be a happy psychiatrist.

Secondly, people who go into psychiatry have to have high tolerance toward patients who choose their own lifestyles. I mean, if you are overly critical of others and cannot accept people for who they are or for what choices they made, how can you deal with substance abusers or schizophrenics who decided to take themselves off anti-psychotics for the 126th time? If you attach strong moral judgements to things, then you will just end up blaming depressed patients for all the problems in their lives. It does take certain personality to work with the psychiatric population but I would call that "patience" or "understanding" or the "ability to see the grey" and not place everything in black and white. I would not call that "weirdness"

 

[womansurg]

I think that most of us find that dealing with dysfunctional people is frustrating and limited. When I've got some wacked out, suspicious, argumentative, borderline personality disorder person in my office, the last thing I want to do is spend more time with them. Rather, I'm eager to get the heck away, and go hang with people who are capable of being functionally interactive in ways that are engaging and rewarding to me.

There's something very...unique...about the type of person who is motivated to interact with people who are impaired like that. It's good that they do it, but I think it's a little hard for most of us to understand.

 

[Thewonderer]

Originally posted by womansurg
I think that most of us find that dealing with dysfunctional people is frustrating and limited. When I've got some wacked out, suspicious, argumentative, borderline personality disorder person in my office, the last thing I want to do is spend more time with them. Rather, I'm eager to get the heck away, and go hang with people who are capable of being functionally interactive in ways that are engaging and rewarding to me.

There's something very...unique...about the type of person who is motivated to interact with people who are impaired like that. It's good that they do it, but I think it's a little hard for most of us to understand.

Actually most psych patients are not wacked out, suspicious and argumentative. If you consider most psych disorders such as depression, bipolar, anorexia, OCD, dementia, delirium, etc. etc., none of them fall into the above category. Bipolar patients who are manic are actually quite charming (until you lock them up on psych ward and only until then, they get pissed off at you and are "argumentative.").

Many of the schizophrenic patients are also not paranoid. Paranoid schizophrenia is a SUB-type of schizophrenia. Also for many substance abusers, they are motivated to interact with others while they are not actively using. They need lots of guidance on how to fill up their empty time-slots that were filled with drugs or drug-seeking behaviors in the past.

I honestly would say that most psych patients are mentally "intact" in the sense that they can interact with you in a 100% meaninful manner. And in the select few who are actively psychotic, Haldol IM works wonder. This is similar to any other medical "emergency" (i.e. you are concerned to taking charge of the situation right away and are not too keen on sitting down and spending 30 minutes "chatting" with the pt). I have also seen quite a few schizophrenics who returned to interacting in very appropriate manners with their families on the day of discharge (untill they feel that they are "cured" and take themselves off their meds, then it is vicious cycle again).

On the other hand, borderline pts are a different beasts and even among psych MD, they usually defer the pts to psychologists who can do cognitive/dialectic behavioral therapy.

Lastly, I simply cannot find another field of medicine that is capable of allowing me to "go hang with people who are capable of being functionally interactive in ways that are engaging and rewarding to me." Nowadays, primary care MD spends 7 minutes doing the hx, dx and tx with additional 7-8 minutes on paper work. Surgeons spend time cutting in the ED and afterwards spend most effort in trying to get pts home ASAP. No one interacts with patients nowadays.

 

[zathras]

In response to the original question...

I would not reveal anything unless directly asked, e.g. on state medical licensing application. Many of them also have limiting clauses such as "in the last n years" or "which negatively impairs your functioning as a physician," in which case you'd be even safer. I wouldn't let this get in your way at all.

"In fact, when I went to my chairman at Johns Hopkins, Professor Paul Mchugh, to talk to him about my clinical privileges, his comment was, you know, if we got rid of all the manic depressives here on the medical faculty at Johns Hopkins not only would we have a much smaller faculty we would have a much more boring one." -- Kay Redfield Jamison

 

[Amy B]

I agree with some of the posters. I don't think it is necessary to reveal everthing about ones past. They don't ask for it on your applications or on your secodaries. If it was an issue... wouldn't they ask about it on these applications.

I guess if it wasn't very recent and you weren't a deraged killer or want-to be killer than I wouldn't worry about it now.

 

[Sonya]

I would CONSIDER including it only if it has very STRONGLY and POSITEVELY impacted your descision to go into medicine. Until then, avoid the topic. Of course, you could used it show you overcame things. but, it could be looked upon poorly. and you really never know what a person thinks about it.

sonya

 

[Blanch]

Medical schools work very hard to eliminate stigma surrounding mental health when dealing with patients. However, I feel like there's a contradiction in that mental health issues of students and doctors are very stigmatized. Arguably for good reason... a schizophrenic doctor can be as dangerous to patients as a doctor on cocaine. But it gets to the point that students are afriad to seek help for depression or stress related issues that are VERY common among medical students. This is a problem in the medical profession and a good reason for you not to mention anything to do with psychiatric care on your application. It's a good idea to talk to your doctor about your decision to apply to medical school, because if there is any life situation stressful enough to bring out unresolved issues, it's medical school.

 

[Stranger]

origionally posted by zathras

I would not reveal anything unless directly asked, e.g. on state medical licensing application. Many of them also have limiting clauses such as "in the last n years" or "which negatively impairs your functioning as a physician," in which case you'd be even safer. I wouldn't let this get in your way at all.

What are they asking about? Is it whether you've been hospitalized, or if you're under psychiatric care, or on meds? Do they want to know what you've been diagnosed with? If you were diagnosed incorrectly do you need to list that when you were 18 some dumb doctor decided you were psychotic because she couldn't believe that what you were saying could possibly be true (when it was)? If they ask about events "in the last n years", could someone who's seen one of these applications tell me how many n usually is?

I must sound like a broken record, because I've already asked for clarification on what they ask, but I'm concerned that I could go through medical school, then find myself unable to get into a residency or to get a medical license.

 

[KatieOConnor]

I spoke with my psychiatrist today about some of the issues I was worried about. She basically told me that she did not think I would end up having to reveal anything about my (psychiatric) past on any applications and that also, many more people than I realize have had to go to a psychiatric hospital for a couple days. (I think she probably, in her profession, comes across an inordinate number of these people, so I really do not buy her statement that "lots" of people in the general population go to mental hospitals)

Ah, well. If I do get into medical school, I will feel a special bond with those in the psychiatric ward when I go through during my third year rotation. (I do not plan on becoming a psychiatrist after school)

 

[womansurg]

Originally posted by Thewonderer
Lastly, I simply cannot find another field of medicine that is capable of allowing me to "go hang with people who are capable of being functionally interactive in ways that are engaging and rewarding to me."... No one interacts with patients nowadays.

Here, I'll give you a clue:
the interactions which are engaging and rewarding are (for most of us) not experienced in the context of dealing with someone else's pathology. In other words, it's not our patients which answer our social callings.

No, that's great that folks exist who find that stuff rewarding. But after being one of six people needed to restrain a postop gallbladder patient with dissociative disorder who was trying to attack her hospital roomate, I was more than happy to walk out of the room and share a few laughs with the nurses. My interactions with the nurses was the part that I found interesting. The dissociative disorder patient - not so much.

I'm being a little bit argumentative. Sorry, my antisocial tendencies are kicking in.

 

[psych22]

Here, I'll give you a clue:
the interactions which are engaging and rewarding are (for most of us) not experienced in the context of dealing with someone else's pathology. In other words, it's not our patients which answer our social callings.

No, that's great that folks exist who find that stuff rewarding. But after being one of six people needed to restrain a postop gallbladder patient with dissociative disorder who was trying to attack her hospital roomate, I was more than happy to walk out of the room and share a few laughs with the nurses. My interactions with the nurses was the part that I found interesting. The dissociative disorder patient - not so much.

I'm being a little bit argumentative. Sorry, my antisocial tendencies are kicking in.

SUBLIMATION: Sublimation is the transformation of unwanted impulses into something less harmful. This can simply be a distracting release or may be a constructive and valuable piece of work.

A person who has an obsessive need for control and order becomes a successful business entrepreneur.

A surgeon turns aggressive energies and deep desires to cut people into life-saving acts.

consider a person like womansurg who has aggression and deep desires for cutting human flesh.. but she's clinically depressed because of inaction / conflict on how to actualize said tendencies. she could have gone either the way of Ted Bundy, serial killer or Dr. Michael DeBakey, famous cardiovascular surgeon. she goes to a psychiatrist, who, through spending time and empathizing, helps treat her depression and helps her to manifest her desires in the most positive / constructive light.. womansurg, some people choose to seek help along the way, those who don't might develop "antisocial tendencies."

http://www.changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/sublimation.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublimation_(psychology)

 

[HumidBeing]

Since this thread is over 5 years old, I'm sure the OP has found the answers she sought. There's no need to bump it to talk to people who aren't here.

Closing.