uncfinley

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anybody notice on the aaoms career line that there are 2 open spots at mgh for a pgy 3 and 4 for 2007, what's the dillio?
 

wizzies

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anyone knows anything about the training at MGH? besides they are really academic. I heard most of the patients are private patients, residents don't get to operate that much, is that true?
 
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6897round2

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uncfinley said:
anybody notice on the aaoms career line that there are 2 open spots at mgh for a pgy 3 and 4 for 2007, what's the dillio?
I think one spot is because they didn't match someone that year and chose not to take someone post match. The other is because one of the residents is doing an additional general surgery year (possibly for plastics eligibility).

I externed there and actually had a decent time. There are a lot of private patients, but the residents do get to cut quite a bit. There's a private service and a ward service (run by the residents).

Here's, according to me, the pros and cons:

Pros:
-Large faculty covering numerous hospitals
-Extensive pediatric/craniofacial, orthognathic and TMJ experience
-Good trauma experience (although, I think Esclavo likes to say that his PD went to MGH and didn't do any ZMCs - I saw 2-3/week while I was there).
-Fairly good relationship with plastics (ENT isn't really part of the picture, since they're at another hospital)
-Cancer experience acquired by rotation on Head and Neck Service for 4 months
-Great place to work if you like research

Cons:
-Some malignant personalities, though I heard its not as bad as it used to be
-Very expensive medical school (though, apparently they have great financial aid) and moonlighting is NOT allowed
-No cosmetics
-Implant experience is adequate, but not great
-Almost no presence at the dental school
-Six years is a long time to spend living in Boston, one of the most expensive cities in the country
-Amount of operating done as an intern (excluding clinic and trauma) = ZERO

There's typically a lot of MGH bashing on here, but I've listed what I think are the pros and cons. PM me if you want a more detailed account of my month there.
 

esclavo

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6897round2 said:
I think one spot is because they didn't match someone that year and chose not to take someone post match. The other is because one of the residents is doing an additional general surgery year (possibly for plastics eligibility).

I externed there and actually had a decent time. There are a lot of private patients, but the residents do get to cut quite a bit. There's a private service and a ward service (run by the residents).

Here's, according to me, the pros and cons:

Pros:
-Large faculty covering numerous hospitals
-Extensive pediatric/craniofacial, orthognathic and TMJ experience
-Good trauma experience (although, I think Esclavo likes to say that his PD went to MGH and didn't do any ZMCs - I saw 2-3/week while I was there).
-Fairly good relationship with plastics (ENT isn't really part of the picture, since they're at another hospital)
-Cancer experience acquired by rotation on Head and Neck Service for 4 months
-Great place to work if you like research

Cons:
-Some malignant personalities, though I heard its not as bad as it used to be
-Very expensive medical school (though, apparently they have great financial aid) and moonlighting is NOT allowed
-No cosmetics
-Implant experience is adequate, but not great
-Almost no presence at the dental school
-Six years is a long time to spend living in Boston, one of the most expensive cities in the country
-Amount of operating done as an intern (excluding clinic and trauma) = ZERO

There's typically a lot of MGH bashing on here, but I've listed what I think are the pros and cons. PM me if you want a more detailed account of my month there.
I will qualify what I have said in the past with the fact that my PD was at MGH over seven years ago as a resident and then woooed 2 different times to go back as faculty. Maybe my information is "out of date". I have a friend who transferred there and maybe I'll make a call. My PD said he just felt like a glorified orthognathic surgeon when he was done at MGH and felt like he got screwed in the procedural end of his training. It isn't like he was a tool. I've been to meetings where other MGHers have told me that my PD was Kaban's boy and the only one who was prepared enough, smart enough, and compulsive enough to avoid Dr. K's wrath. Now I here that residents don't operate much with Dr. K. My PD has bitter feelings I guess much of his operating and scope of practicel experience there.... times change I guess.
 

6897round2

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esclavo said:
I will qualify what I have said in the past with the fact that my PD was at MGH over seven years ago as a resident and then woooed 2 different times to go back as faculty. Maybe my information is "out of date". I have a friend who transferred there and maybe I'll make a call. My PD said he just felt like a glorified orthognathic surgeon when he was done at MGH and felt like he got screwed in the procedural end of his training. It isn't like he was a tool. I've been to meetings where other MGHers have told me that my PD was Kaban's boy and the only one who was prepared enough, smart enough, and compulsive enough to avoid Dr. K's wrath. Now I here that residents don't operate much with Dr. K. My PD has bitter feelings I guess much of his operating and scope of practicel experience there.... times change I guess.
Times do change - I can qualify what I've said by adding that I only spent a month at the program over a year ago, so who knows what it's like now...You are correct though, when I was there, the residents didn't seem to operate with Kaban all that often - most of the operating was done with the other faculty.
 

EnjoyOMFS

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Hey everyone
Being a person who has spent some time training at MGH, and who has a lot of contact with the faculty, current residents and alums...I wanted to put the facts out. There is a new PD, Dr. Troulis. There have been some new changes. These changes are because during 2004-05 the department had an intense iternal review which was conducted by the hospital. They interviewed all current residents and all alums within the past 6 years. For the first time, a lot of the "bad" things about this program finally became clear to the faculty, esp Dr. Kaban. Being the intense person he is, at first this angered him that the program had so many negative complaints. This has caused him to focus on making the program better. It is clear that the OMFS department is working with the residents to make the program better. For example, under Dr. Troulis's leadership, intern call has decreased, there has been a substantial decrease in scut work(send lab work out, special assistant for orthognathic workups,etc), there is a much improved focusing on teaching and hands on instructions, such as gross anatomy labs, etc, and the overall MORAL has greatly improved. She has "adopted" the residents and is willing to fight for her "family". She is clearly supported by Dr. Kaban, for they have spent thousands addressing little details that the residents complained about- they redid the clinic-converting two exam rooms into procedure rooms, totally revamping the residents conference room, adding computers, phones, new books, and redoing the lab. In addition, they have addressed an important issue from the past which was Kaban rarely let the interns cut.
Now, amazingly, the interns are cutting in every private case. The biggest change is that in the past, the interns would cut in most cases except Dr. Kaban's, but this year the intern would often do 1/2 the case, and the chief resident the other 1/2. This is b/c of a change in attitude as well as the fact that now that the scut work has decreased, the interns and chief's are better prepared for the cases, meeting dr. K's standards...making him happy-hence allowing him to give the privelage to cut to the residents under his supervision.
Last- the ward clinic is extremely busy, and it is soley run by the residents. There has been a substantial change in the clinic-more chairs, more IV-seds and Implants.
But the personalities remain...although, they have changed and have made clear improvements...the faculty are following their words with their deeds...making the residents and faculty feel as if they are back on the same "team".
The future of this program looks great-it may becoming by far the best, most balanced program. Residents are happier, training is broader, huge faculty with new ones arriving(cosmetic/cancer at BWH) and intense training.
 

EnjoyOMFS

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I am sorry but I am not allowed to mention who the new attendings are since its not finalized. Just know that the OMFS department has now become a division of surgery-they are recrutting two new attendings/positions.

Here is a fact- The variability between the top 10 programs is exponetially less than the variability between the residents....therefore its more important who you match with than where you go in most cases...this really impacts your experience and the experience year-to-year at any program.
 

north2southOMFS

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a substantial decrease in scut work(send lab work out, special assistant for orthognathic workups,etc),.

What!!! They get someone to do their lab work and someone to do their orthognathic workups!!!!!! No Fair.

I guess that is where all of those tens of thousands for medical school go.


Buy you know what.....its believe it's still seven years and that still sucks.
 

EnjoyOMFS

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No, at MGH the residents do the orthognathic workups, cutting the models, and treatment plan...they just have specific assistants who will pour models, and help out...etc. It is just a much smoother process now, and much more organized...saving time and headache.

In regards to your seven years comment, it did not make sense- just for clarity..OMFS at MGH is 6 years.
 

north2southOMFS

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No, at MGH the residents do the orthognathic workups, cutting the models, and treatment plan...they just have specific assistants who will pour models, and help out...etc. It is just a much smoother process now, and much more organized...saving time and headache.

In regards to your seven years comment, it did not make sense- just for clarity..OMFS at MGH is 6 years.
my bad. I was under the impression that unless you went to an ivy league dental school, the program was seven years long. My bad....


-N2S


..maybe that was UCSF I was thinking of....
 
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