MGH vs Brigham

[Primate]

Anyone have anything to say comparing the MGH and the Brigham's programs. I know the general gestalt, but am curious to hear any more current opinions (traditionally, MGH = hardcore, Brigham = intellectual/friendly). Not sure if these still hold and would appreciate any more up-to-date info (current residents/applicants).

Thanks,
P

btw - anyone else use up-to-date all the time? On the wards, I LOVE that service.

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[governaitor]

BWH if you want to have your own lab one day

MGH if you want to be an expert diagnostician

 

[Primate]

So this is still true then?

Does one NOT gain excellent diagnostic skills at the Brigham? Is it that difficult to go the academic route after MGH? In other words, is the difference that big, or more subtle but just often commented on?

Thanks,
P

 

[governaitor]

MGH has their great program to go into reseach via the 2-3 NIH funded years of basic science training after the basic requirements of residency are done. So it is certainly possible, but you can forget about any lab experience your first 2-3 years at MGH while at Brighman they will get you in to a lab asap.

Of course you can be a competent diagnostician wherever you go, but MGH has 70,000 specimens a year and the subspecialty sigh out with world experts and long hours to get experience. No place else in the country can offer that.

BWH has the culture that they are in the business to train researchers. It is the same now at UCSF which is now modeled after BWH. The new attitude is that training good diagnosticians is not as meaningful as training future researchers.

 

[Mindy]

MGH ROCKS!

Okay, y'all know I think that anyway...

I agree with all that is said about MGH in this column. We work hard here, but the specimens, the consults, and the attendings are incredible!

If becoming an expert diagnostician (i.e. the type of training you can use to make a good solid living out of) is your thing, I would consider MGH strongly! Many folks do indeed go into academics (~50/50, I here) upon finishing the program here, however.

I don't get online as much as I used, but I would be more than happy to answer some questions...

Mindy

 

[Primate]

Missed your posts around here recently. Good to e-hear from you again. As no good deed goes unpunished, more questions......

1) A couple NP folks I know have (anonnymously) commented that NP at the Brigham (I STILL want to call it the Peter Bent....) is not all that hot anymore. Any opinions one way or the other?

2) Does the MGH still have the 4 year AP/NP option available to someone with prior research (MDPhD)? My local source wasn't sure it was still an option there.

3) All this talk about MGH makes me wonder what the hours are really like. Are we talking 80/week on average? 70? 60? I know no self-respecting resident would admit to less than that, so I'll stop with 60.

4) What's the deal with parking? When I was at the MGH (waaaaay back in '96-'97), I had a spot, but those who didn't could pay up to $25/day. Do residents get spots or any discounts?

5) Is Buzzy's still open? The cheesesteak here is great, but it's not Buzzy's RB.

Thanks,
P

 

[Gross/Micro]

Just as Mindy is biased to her institution, I am biased towards mine (BWH). While we will only have about 62 to 63K cases this year, I feel it is more than enough.

Traditionally, BWH has been seen as a refuge for PhD's on their way back to the lab. I don't believe that this still holds true. The staff at Brigham is top notch (i.e. Who here hasn't written a textbook?). There are certainly countless research opportunities, but you make the choice to pursue those opportunities

Our system is very different than MGH. The first two years are straight surgical pathology. While a couple of services are subspecialized (Gyn, Neuropath, Medical kidney), everything else rolls through a general bench. Thus you see breast, colon, thyroid, mesothelioma, dedif liposarc, every time you are on surgical service.

One nice thing about the Brigham system is flexibility. You work like a dog for the first two years, you learn a ton of surgical pathology, and then you choose your own adventure. You want to go straight into CP, great. You want to do a surgical pathology rotating fellowship, great. You want to go to a lab for a post-doc, great. The choice is yours.

Ultimately, the biggest factor for me was the people. There is great camaraderie amongst the residents and between the residents and staff. My class is an amazing. Overall, a diverse group of people and surprisingly not everyone is PhD.

I hope this helps.

P.S. A small jab: The MGHers come over here to do their cytogenetics rotation.

P.P.S. Soon the two hospitals will be closer than ever: MGH and BWH will be sharing the same pathology information system.

 

[Primate]

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. That's one of the nice things about an open forum, one post - many answers.

If you have a feel for it, could you comment on the NP program at the BWH? I'm fairly differentiated in that I'm a brain person, so wherever I end up (literally/figuratively) it'll be near a brain. Ahem, also, do you know if there is a 4 year combined AP/NP program there? The web sites don't typically answer these questions, so any view from within is especially appreciated.

Oh, and what about parking? Sounds silly, but it's a real issue.

Lastly, I'll throw the "hours" question your way as well. What's typical (averaging across rotations)? I'm no slacker - just want another datum.

Best,
P

PS - It's probably a good thing that not everyone there is also a PhD.

 

[Gross/Micro]

Parking ? One block away; $3.75 a day or $80.00 a month

Hours ? Can be long. Its 8:30pm now and I am still here. My hours seem to be longer than some of the other residents. This is likely the result of my having more ?learning opportunities? combined with being a compulsive previewer. I could leave sooner if I had fewer specimens and cut some corners, . . . but I am here to learn.

NP ? I do not know much about our program. Overall, I have enjoyed my interactions with the NP staff (we sign out our own autopsy brains), but I can?t say much beyond that. The first year NP fellow is a third year resident, so I assume she is on a four year AP/NP tract. I will ask her to make sure.

I am sorry that I cannot address your questions better, but I am a bit of a brainophobe.

 

[Gross/Micro]

Obviously, my sarcasm seemed to tiptoe around that sentence.

 

[Primate]

Originally posted by Gross/Micro
Just as Mindy is biased to her institution, I am biased towards mine (BWH). While we will only have about 62 to 63K cases this year, I feel it is more than enough.

Lovely understatement.

I think some of the competition between two very well respected programs can make for some fairly silly comparisons. Subtle shades, in the end (I hope).

Thanks for the replies. Happy for any more info you care to toss along.

P

 

[Mindy]

Hey gals and guys!

MGH'ers have the highest regard for the folks at the Brigham, and on a daily basis I never hear anyone take potshots at their institution. We really don't have time for it anyway. When working, we tend to work hard. Everything here is subspecialized and we generally switch rotations weekly. Some rotations are light (I should be able to leave the hospital before 6:30 pm this week, since I am covering the O.R.) Other rotations are much busier. I think our hours range somewhere between 60 and 70 / week. We do not ever need to come in before 8:00am, unless by choice (i.e. we wanted to preview in the am, instead of the night before.)

The attendings are experts with huge consult services, many have also written books and most have written numerous chapters (many with folks from the Brigham.) Together, the 2 institutions are somewhat like halves of an amazing, overachieving family. Extraordinarily tied together, yet a little weary of sharing the limelight with the other half. Sibling rivalry, I suppose. I have to say, I don't think my colleagues or myself feel we are rivaled by anyone (a little smugness to make up for the amount of work we do!)

Anyway, glad I had a chance to stop in... I miss you all. Happy Holidays and keep in touch!

Oh yeah, parking... $80/mnth. Good deal!

Mindy