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Michigan full ride scholarship vs. Kaiser Permanente (free)

detritus

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didn’t you just post UMich vs UCSF and Penn? Curious how you’re deciding between all of these schools past the PTE deadline. Surely you didn’t get into 3 schools off the WL in the past week and a half, but anything is possible I guess.
 
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Supahchungus

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Also something to keep in mind is Michigan is getting a lot of flak right now because one of their admitted students was apparently sexually harassing other applicants, and Michigan did nothing when given this information

Mr. Dr. Prof. Patrick aka Memelord right? Can’t believe the school would support him after that.
 

enchantments

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How’d you know it’s him? Just curious

There was a fascinating post about him on premeddit last week (now deleted).



Anyways, referring back to the topic, I would echo what most people have said on here and choose the T15 given that there's no difference in cost.
 
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Mad Jack

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Also something to keep in mind is Michigan is getting a lot of flak right now because one of their admitted students was apparently sexually harassing other applicants, and Michigan did nothing when given this information
In the end no one selecting you for residency cares about situations like this which will have happened years ago. Michigan is clearly the superior choice, just avoid any questionable classmates while you're there and don't hesitate to report then if they harass you
 

Blueyonder2

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In the end no one selecting you for residency cares about situations like this which will have happened years ago. Michigan is clearly the superior choice, just avoid any questionable classmates while you're there and don't hesitate to report then if they harass you

This is insanely narrow minded viewpoint. Matching isn't the only thing that matters in life– you have to actually attend this school for 4 years. And a school shrugging off behavior like this is a very bad sign showing how little they care about the safety of their students.
 
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brickcity

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This is insanely narrow minded viewpoint. Matching isn't the only thing that matters in life– you have to actually attend this school for 4 years. And a school shrugging off behavior like this is a very bad sign showing how little they care about the safety of their students.

Every post you make is just bashing Michigan (are you on the waitlist?). I agree that the student you're referring to should not have been let in but if Michigan didn't take action, it was because they didn't have legal precedent. And as a Michigan student, I can assure you the program cares deeply about the safety of their students so I would recommend not bashing a program that you know very little about.
 
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greymandude

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As far as Kaiser vs Michigan, for OP, feel free to message me or others from Kaiser if you have questions. Many have given up really tempting packages so picking between these choices isn't as crazy as these people are making it seem here. I found that after speaking with the faculty at Kaiser I was sold on their mission as a whole and I was convinced that I would find what I wanted for med school.

Living situation is relevant, will living in SoCal give you a happier four years than living in Michigan? For me it does. What kind of interactions and relationships do you want to have with your curriculum, peers, and faculty?

I feel like your thread was sidetracked. So maybe here's a chance to talk about your specific desires a little more...
 

Mad Jack

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As far as Kaiser vs Michigan, for OP, feel free to message me or others from Kaiser if you have questions. Many have given up really tempting packages so picking between these choices isn't as crazy as these people are making it seem here. I found that after speaking with the faculty at Kaiser I was sold on their mission as a whole and I was convinced that I would find what I wanted for med school.

Living situation is relevant, will living in SoCal give you a happier four years than living in Michigan? For me it does. What kind of interactions and relationships do you want to have with your curriculum, peers, and faculty?

I feel like your thread was sidetracked. So maybe here's a chance to talk about your specific desires a little more...
Don't fall for corporate speak from a place like Kaiser. Their mission is total control of the health marketplace, and this school was created to further that. If living in SoCal is worth missing out on as high tier school for an unknown because of social reasons, that's a legitimate choice only the individual can make.
 
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Blueyonder2

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Every post you make is just bashing Michigan (are you on the waitlist?). I agree that the student you're referring to should not have been let in but if Michigan didn't take action, it was because they didn't have legal precedent. And as a Michigan student, I can assure you the program cares deeply about the safety of their students so I would recommend not bashing a program that you know very little about.

Haha I like the logic of "you're angry that a school essentially condoned sexual harassment = you're on the waitlist". Nope. If you must know I will be attending a T5 school in the fall and I didn't even apply to Michigan. I just have personal experience with this kind of thing and it makes me really angry to see a school do nothing about it, and I think potential students have a right to know.
 
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Skarl

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Haha I like the logic of "you're angry that a school essentially condoned sexual harassment = you're on the waitlist". Nope. If you must know I will be attending a T5 school in the fall and I didn't even apply to Michigan. I just have personal experience with this kind of thing and it makes me really angry to see a school do nothing about it, and I think potential students have a right to know.
What did you want them to do? Rescind the student-in-question's acceptance based off an online post? Sexual harassment is reprehensible and should certainly bar offenders from ever practicing medicine, but there are appropriate legal avenues to seek justice. Individually emailing different medical school admissions offices based on a Reddit post is not one of them.
 

talkeetnadenali

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Don't fall for corporate speak from a place like Kaiser. Their mission is total control of the health marketplace, and this school was created to further that. If living in SoCal is worth missing out on as high tier school for an unknown because of social reasons, that's a legitimate choice only the individual can make.
This might be true for Kaiser Permanente the healthcare organization, but not for KPSOM. When taking the time to actually learn about the school, you’ll see that of the main leadership of 12 deans/chairs, 5 were former deans (from Harvard, UW, UCSD, UIC, FIU) one was a clinical director at Columbia, two more were chiefs in medicine at Harvard and UCLA, etc.

To say that these established and respected individuals with long careers in academia, who are driving every decision within the school, engage in corporate speak and have the sole mission to advance Kaiser Permanente’s market share in healthcare isn’t logical.
 
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Blueyonder2

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What did you want them to do? Rescind the student-in-question's acceptance based off an online post? Sexual harassment is reprehensible and should certainly bar offenders from ever practicing medicine, but there are appropriate legal avenues to seek justice. Individually emailing different medical school admissions offices based on a Reddit post is not one of them.

No, I want them to rescind the student because of the people who have come forward to Michigan with evidence of sexual harassment. The screenshots documenting their disgusting behavior online is just another example of why they should not be a doctor, and please don't minimize impersonating a black woman online and using the N word as just a "reddit post". Hell, they don't even have to rescind if that causes legal issues (which I think is absolute BS by the way, schools can rescind for any reason they want). But put them on probation. Make them take a course on harassment. Do something to show they care about the safety of their students and patients. I'm guessing based on your defense of Michigan that you are also a current student there. So let me ask you– why are you not angry that this student will soon be representing your school?
 
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Mad Jack

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This might be true for Kaiser Permanente the healthcare organization, but not for KPSOM. When taking the time to actually learn about the school, you’ll see that of the main leadership of 12 deans/chairs, 5 were former deans (from Harvard, UW, UCSD, UIC, FIU) one was a clinical director at Columbia, two more were chiefs in medicine at Harvard and UCLA, etc.

To say that these established and respected individuals with long careers in academia, who are driving every decision within the school, engage in corporate speak and have the sole mission to advance Kaiser Permanente’s market share in healthcare isn’t logical.
As a guy that deals with a medical school that was birthed from a similar arrangement on the regular, I'll just be here rolling my eyes
 
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Skarl

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No, I want them to rescind the student because of the people who have come forward to Michigan with evidence of sexual harassment. The screenshots documenting their disgusting behavior online is just another example of why they should not be a doctor, and please don't minimize impersonating a black woman online and using the N word as just a "reddit post". Hell, they don't even have to rescind if that causes legal issues (which I think is absolute BS by the way, schools can rescind for any reason they want). But put them on probation. Make them take a course on harassment. Do something to show they care about the safety of their students and patients. I'm guessing based on your defense of Michigan that you are also a current student there. So let me ask you– why are you not angry that this student will soon be representing your school?
I don't go to Michigan. You can check my post history if you don't believe me.

Look, I get it. If those screenshots are true, I agree that the student should face consequences. But you are talking about sinking someone's career. You can't make accusations that they are impersonating people online or sexually harassing people without definitive evidence, which screenshots do not constitute (I can easily html-edit a screenshot of you saying something you did not; and how can you prove who an anonymous online account actually belongs to?) I'm not saying that this is the case here; for all we know you could be 100% right. But mob mentality and the court of opinion should not substitute for due process when we're talking about something as consequential as this.

Because we're getting off-topic- OP I feel like this is a no brainer. Both are free but one school is an established, respected institution and the other is a newly opened school full of uncertainties. I would go to Michigan.
 
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blurb_123

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I don't go to Michigan. You can check my post history if you don't believe me.

Look, I get it. If those screenshots are true, I agree that the student should face consequences. But you are talking about sinking someone's career. You can't make accusations that they are impersonating people online or sexually harassing people without definitive evidence, which screenshots do not constitute (I can easily html-edit a screenshot of you saying something you did not; and how can you prove who an anonymous online account actually belongs to?) I'm not saying that this is the case here; for all we know you could be 100% right. But mob mentality and the court of opinion should not substitute for due process when we're talking about something as consequential as this.

Because we're getting off-topic- OP I feel like this is a no brainer. Both are free but one school is an established, respected institution and the other is a newly opened school full of uncertainties. I would go to Michigan.

I’ve seen the screenshots. You think someone edited the screenshots and went through all that trouble to frame someone?

They didn’t. I wouldn’t want someone showing those tendencies taking care of vulnerable people. But that’s just me.
 
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Skarl

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I’ve seen the screenshots. You think someone edited the screenshots and went through all that trouble to frame someone?

They didn’t. I wouldn’t want someone showing those tendencies taking care of vulnerable people. But that’s just me.
If your career was on the line, you'd want more than just "I don't think someone would go through the trouble" as proof.

I don't either.
 
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blurb_123

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If your career was on the line, you'd want more than just "I don't think someone would go through the trouble" as proof.

I don't either.

I have more context regarding the situation than this. If you think this is the only evidence, or that this is the extent of what was said or done, I don’t know what to tell you.
 
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altblue

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I don't go to Michigan. You can check my post history if you don't believe me.

Look, I get it. If those screenshots are true, I agree that the student should face consequences. But you are talking about sinking someone's career. You can't make accusations that they are impersonating people online or sexually harassing people without definitive evidence, which screenshots do not constitute (I can easily html-edit a screenshot of you saying something you did not; and how can you prove who an anonymous online account actually belongs to?) I'm not saying that this is the case here; for all we know you could be 100% right. But mob mentality and the court of opinion should not substitute for due process when we're talking about something as consequential as this.

Because we're getting off-topic- OP I feel like this is a no brainer. Both are free but one school is an established, respected institution and the other is a newly opened school full of uncertainties. I would go to Michigan.
You can investigate more deeply than just through screenshots...

Bruh I go to a "humanistic" service-focused program that tries to screen out people like this, and we still have a few misogynistic a******s. Imagine how many there would be at a program that allows people like that individual to enter without a thorough examination. Examining how an institution tries to conduct itself with respect to these issues is valuable for people who want to feel safe. I'm very familiar with two other med students at UMMS as well and both of them have some serious, serious issues.

So nah, I've suggested Michigan in the past to people who had a similar decisions, but it becomes challenging to recommend them. I wouldn't fault applicants if they're survivors who wanted to stay away, especially if they've dealt with similar people in the past.
 
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