Midlife crisis: thinking of joining Reserves

[northstate]

Sidebar discussion I started on Pro/Con, but would like broader input on:



Casting about for information, albeit on an anonymous student forum, as I get close to going Navy Reserve. May be stupid (see what follows) but not naive, so I'll take what you give with a sober eye... Interested in most opinions though especially of the ones that come from some of the "more mature" posters.

Backstory:
-49 yo, reasonably fit
-GenSurg and PedSurg BC
-Professor, generally happy in academics
-top of my game clinically
-(I'm not running from something)
-financially secure
-no kids, supportive (AF brat) wife

Reasonable understanding of:
-milmed needs (25+% of my families are mil)
-milmed frustrations
-service to need
-corporate stupidities

Why?:
-Proven myself in civilian world, would like a new challenge
-just not interested in being an academic careerist anymore
-strong call to duty
-dad was a Marine DI
-mil families I take care of are my favorite
-want to serve in operations to guys who deserve great care
-join a club I've grown to admire
-got some flexibility with my life, so why the hell not

Questions at this point:
-how likely that detailers will misalign my skill set with my duties?
-how does one finesse this to achieve my goal of being deployed as a trauma surgeon/battalion surgeon and doing some of my US drill time as a PSurgeon?
-plan to go IRR at 3 years, so likely number of deployments in that time
-consequences of jumping command to get things done, both personally and for patients
-choosing a billet
-details of greenside alignment
-typical routine for w/e drill at NOSC (as a surgeon)
-how much paying of dues to medcorp lifers and line soldiers to gain credibility
-how far will "doing it for the right reasons" carry me

​

.................​

I think joining the reserves could be a good choice for you. You are 50, no kids and are flexible. You have low expectations and want to give back to society. The biggest concern I would have for you is deployments. What would happen if you went on a 6-12 month deployment, had a year off and then went on another 6-12 month deployment. Would you lose your university job? I think you could definitely be deployed as a surgeon, you could also work at a military hospital as a surgeon. Not sure if you would be doing any pediatrics surgery. The Navy probably doesn't have an OR or staff capable of supporting that. If you really want to sacrifice, why not go 100% active duty? The Navy desperately needs guys like you who have gray hair, lots of experience and can be a mentor for young surgeons. The other question I have is, can you stomach the bureaucracy? It has its way of breaking a lot of people.​

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Yesterday, 10:00 PM #314 northstate

New Member​

Join Date: May 2010​

I generally like my university job and worry some that a prolonged salary drop (more than 12 months) as well as the loss of benes and insurance will end up being a pretty hefty sacrifice, but after reality testing this for almost a year, I still want to do it. All ex-mil surgeons I know say the PITA titer is high but they thought taking care of soldiers was a career high and would do it again. As a surgeon I'm used to hierarchies and despise bureaucracies and do worry that I go to plebe status at a time when I could remain comfortable, secure and highly paid. Still not sure if I'll get much credit for what I've accomplished in civiilan life, that the military will care that their getting a good asset for cheap or how much i can trade on my doing this for the right reasons but then again wouldn't give a guy like me a free ride if I was on the other side either.​

My expectations are sober and pretty realistic now. I don't expect to write my ticket any longer, but would probably regret this if I spent all my time as a backfill general surgeon doing hemorrhoids at Jacksonville. I can respect the chain of command but at my age I'm not afraid to talk back to it. This is clearly not a career move or done for financial reasons so it does give me a little margin in my mind to push for what I want.​

What I hope to accomplish v. corporate inflexibility/stupidities still seems on the + side for me. But I'd be lying if I didn't say that when I look past the recruiting poster reasons I still wonder sometimes if this isn't straight up. stupid.​

Yesterday, 10:53 PM #315 IgD

Quote:​

Originally Posted by northstate​

My expectations are sober and pretty realistic now. I don't expect to write my ticket any longer, but would probably regret this if I spent all my time as a backfill general surgeon doing hemorrhoids at Jacksonville. I can respect the chain of command but at my age I'm not afraid to talk back to it. This is clearly not a career move or done for financial reasons so it does give me a little margin in my mind to push for what I want.​

The Navy has three big hospitals in San Diego, Bethesda and Portsmouth. I'd recommending calling the surgery department at any one of those facilities and ask for the department head. Tell them you are thinking of joining the Navy and want to talk to the Navy Surgery specialty leader. They can tell you what you need to know.​

Today, 09:28 AM #316 notdeadyet​

Still in California​

I'm with IgD. Given your post about your expectations and hopes, you'd probably find the Reserves a good fit.​

Quote:​

Originally Posted by northstate​

-how likely that detailers will misalign my skill set with my duties?​

-how does one finesse this to achieve my goal of being deployed as a trauma surgeon/battalion surgeon and doing some of my US drill time as a PSurgeon?​

I would actually consider the second an example of the first, no?​

If you sign up as a BC Peds Surgeon, expect a deployment to do general surgery. And from the Army Reserve side of the house, expect frequent deployments. From the Navy side, expect the possibility of deployment to Army hospitals.​

Quote:​

Originally Posted by northstate​

-plan to go IRR at 3 years, so likely number of deployments in that time​

Or after that time. Keep in mind that you could theoretically be called up off of IRR. Highly unlikely, but go in knowing that.​

It would be worth your while shopping between Army and Navy. As a board certified surgeon with experience, they'll be tripping over themselves. Army Reserves has a deployment tempo of approximately every 22 months. Deployments are 90 days boots-in-sand, no more than 120 days away from your home location. Check to see what Navy Reserves is doing. In writing.​

Don't have any answers to your questions for Navy side of the house, but if you'd consider Army, let me know via PM and I can help you out.​

Today, 04:21 PM #317 northstate​

Appreciate the feedback.​

Am keying on the Navy b/c of the father who was Marine and possibility of Afgstan in their support, chance at Mercy and Comfort, hearsay and the double-breasted gold buttons.​

Again, I keep hoping I'll be treated as an asset but continue to hear horror stories. Waver between making a leap of faith (expecting no organization can be that tone-deaf) or dragging this out until all my concerns are answered.​

The "in writing" thing confounds me, since not just recruiters but med corp upper echelon (RADM and Surgery SLs) tell me they can't/won't do it but assure me that I'll be on their radar and not posted to Guam to do blisters.​

Sure things change and I get "service to need" but is there a pattern of stupidity that I should be aware of? This forum seems to suggest so, but I try to look past it since my situation is somewhat different than a young doc with family and a now daunting payback obligation and peers making triple.​

My take on it now is:​

-just do it​

-defer any sign on bonus (and deep financial payback obligation)​

-seek a duty station, as a GenSurg that would get me towards a expeditionary hosp or shock platoon for hopefully not more than 12 m deployment (any suggestions on how to game the system for this?)​

-hope they might agree to use me somewhat stateside as a PSurg as part of my drill time (lots of head nodding, but nothing in writing so far)​

-ask to go IRR at three years (again not a career move in this), since at my age I figure this has met my call to duty​

Reluctant to ask this since I don't want my commitment questioned, but say it blows up on me (can't pay mortgage, facing divorce over 3rd deployment, fired from univeristy, utterly misused skillset) is there any exit strategy? Have heard lots about resigned commisions on this forum. This is part of my rationale for not taking the bonus (which I don't really need anyway).​

Not looking for a medal but I do feel that if I'm anteing up $hundredKs of training that the mil doesn't have to pay, 15 years of experience and $hundredsK of "lost" civilian salary for honorable reasons. Is it too entitiled in military world to expect that I'll be used to good effect and with some recognition of what I hoped for by signing on?​

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[Boopieness]

Just spoke to army career counselor, still in IRR was debating to go back in. (If I get called I'll go, don't wish to resign nor volunteer. Sitting on the fence.)

Anyway, Army reserve has sent me an official looking memo with AOCs for fy 2010-2011

25k/year bonus (for 3 yr commitment)
& 40k/year (health profession loan repayment, 250k cap)
incentives do not run concurrently.

I don't know why people keep telling you about 6 month & year long deployments to scare you from the reserves, for army reserve/national guard they are capped at 90 day boots on the ground and 30 days for in & out processing.

When I was Army National Guard none of the docs exceeded those parameters and went back to work easily. When you are a reservist and you go back to your civilian position, believe me, you are highly esteemed. Oh so and so is in the reserves he deployed to wherever, that is what ancillary staff say behind your back, it brings great credit upon the hospital. They are very proud that one of their docs went, because it is rare to see.

Whereas if you are active duty, nobody blinks an eye, because it is expected that you go. You are a dime a dozen and you are not appreciated for the sacrifices you make.

Sure all of the NG docs were deployed at one point or another (individually), but if you become a flight surgeon in the army (reserve/NG), you definitely have more leeway where you want to go and it is arranged beforehand so you have options to choose your deployment assignment, if you wait too long, you get chosen. When you attend the flight surgeon course, which is challenging and short (6 weeks, or broken up into three weeks at a time) special forces comes down to recruit the FS candidate physicians. There are all sorts of training options in SF & flexibility. For women physicians, civil affairs is available.

I used to wear my flight wings on my white coat and while in the university hospital cafeteria a young med student actually, he said he was going Navy and was looking forward to earning his wings. (Noone else had any idea, what they were.)

Anyway, there is also IMA, do all of your drills basically at one time.

Sure there is bureaucracy, but it is a tremendous honor to serve your country for only a 3-4 month deployment every other year (maximum). I don't know what these guys are talking about with back to back 6-12 month deployments in reserve, ...not in the Army. I NEVER saw that, when I was in. It was always 3-4 months and q 2yrs or so.

Best Wishes

 

[Boopieness]

I am in IRR. I work for dept of defense and live adjacent to a military installation. With my IRR card I use all of the amenities of the base, I can live on base/privatized housing, base exchanges, commissary, USO functions, DOD lodging world wide (http://dodlodging.net/), MWR tickets etc.,.

There are many benefits to serving or just sitting and waiting to be called in the IRR.

With my IRR ID card, I stayed in San Diego (leisure) in a beautiful 2 room suite for 37/night, free wifi, no taxes, no parking fee, adjacent to the golf course on the base. The next time I was in San Diego, on a different base, had a view of the ocean & bay for 37/night at yet another military installation. With just a one week notice, of course I was awakened by marines doing PT and observed night seal training, but that is what I love about being in the military, serving alongside my brothers & sisters, being part of a team.

 

[notdeadyet]

I don't know why people keep telling you about 6 month & year long deployments to scare you from the reserves, for army reserve/national guard they are capped at 90 day boots on the ground and 30 days for in & out processing.

Because he's looking at the Navy Reserves. The 90 days boots-in-sand is an Army policy. Navy never adopted that tempo as policy, so far as I know.

Sure all of the NG docs were deployed at one point or another (individually), but if you become a flight surgeon in the army (reserve/NG), you definitely have more leeway where you want to go and it is arranged beforehand so you have options to choose your deployment assignment, if you wait too long, you get chosen.

I'd strongly advise against anyone doing the flight surgeon course unless they really want to deploy. Flight surgeons are deployed more than any other docs in the Guard. Maybe it's just an Army thing, but it might be the same for Navy.

 

[navyflightsrgn]

Notdeadyet,

I'm a Navy reservist in a civilian anesthesiology residency. I did 4 years of active duty, paid my time back being a flight surgeon, then joined a civilian residency.

Once I finished my payback, I had the option of serving the remaining 4 years of my commitment in the IRR - which basically means doing nothing, no affiliation - or continuing as a drilling reservist. I chose the latter.

I know our situations are somewhat different, but I, like you, am somewhat of an idealist and have been proud to serve my country. I didn't want this service to end after my payback was complete, so I drill one weekend per month.

With the program I am in now, I can quit tomorrow if I want to, but this is because I refused all bonuses. It sounds like you have already figured this much out, but do not take the bonuses unless they are substantial amounts of money. It's the bonuses that lock you in.

Secondly, as has been brought up already, the Navy Reserves have not yet caught up with the other branches when it comes to recruiting. They refuse to adopt the model that the Air Force, Guard, and Air National Guard use. In those branches, I'm told you can choose deployment length up to 120 days and that no one gets mobilized for longer than 120 days against their will. This is a fabulous policy and I would seriously urge you to consider those branches for that reason alone. It is my understanding that the Navy will fill active duty spots with reservists, even across branches So, as a Navy reservist you could potentially be deployed for 12 months or longer with the Army in Afghanistan. That would suck.

Now, I have heard that the Navy reserve leadership "tries to split deployments" and "takes individual situations into account," but if you believe this... Anyway, there's nothing in writing to protect you. It is frustrating that the Navy leadership continues to be hard headed about this policy and, until they change, they will continue to loose great physicians to the other branches. I thought long and hard about joining the air guard. My reasons for staying navy are unique to my individual situation and not worth getting into here.

So, don't take the bonuses (unless they are on the order of hundreds of thousands) and I wouldn't recommend the Navy reserves b/c of their deployments.

PM me if you have any questions.

Navyflightsrgn

 

[northstate]

Thanks for all the information and viewpoints. I'm looking forward to a chance to go downrange and help support guys who are willing to take a bullet for each other. You don't see that kind of teamwork in the civiilan world much anymore.

 

[VMAQ4 doc]

No mid life crisis here either, but thinking of joining the reserves as well.

Board Certified Diagnostic Radiologist with 6 years private practice following fellowship. Prior HPSP student with two tours as a Flight Surgeon (2D MAW) and civilian trained Rads residency. Can't find much info about the Reserve thing as a Radiologist. Any thoughts? Contacts or other info?
Thanks!
PMB