Military Medicine Army vs. Air Force vs. Navy

[PsxDcSquall]

Hello everyone, I'm sure this has been asked before and I have seen this all answered in other threads to some extent but I can not seem to find one thread that really breaks down and spells out the differences between the 3 branches of the armed forces.

Military medicine really appeals to me, I have applied to USU and am considering doing the HPSP but I really have no clue what branch to pick. What are the pros and cons of each particular branch.

From what I have gathered joining the army gives you the most opportunities to pick a specialty and the Navy sticks you as a GMO (I'm not really sure what a GMO is to be honest). I've seen a lot of bad posts about the air force but I can not really seem to get a good reason why.

Thanks for answering my questions, I am trying to do my research but it is hard to find a good source of information.

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[Phlame217]

I dont know much about the army, other than you have to pick 5 different residency options and only if you get into none of them, do you get a choice at a civilian residency.

The navy does require a gmo as far as I know to, which is a "General Medical Officer" aka a flight surgeon.... Basically after PGY-1 you go and do active duty tours (ADT) and provide general health care.

I am currently applying for the Air Force, as it seems to be the best option for me. There is no required Flight Surgeon tour as far as I know, however I've read a few posts that say if you fail to match for a residency in both the military and civilian secotrs, you may be forced to go into flight surgery (dont let the name fool you, you basically become trained in aeronautical medicine and treat pilots before, during, and after flights for related troubles. no surgery).

I asked the person in charge and assisting me on my application and he said this is false.

 

[psychbender]

I dont know much about the army, other than you have to pick 5 different residency options and only if you get into none of them, do you get a choice at a civilian residency.

The navy does require a gmo as far as I know to, which is a "General Medical Officer" aka a flight surgeon.... Basically after PGY-1 you go and do active duty tours (ADT) and provide general health care.

I am currently applying for the Air Force, as it seems to be the best option for me. There is no required Flight Surgeon tour as far as I know, however I've read a few posts that say if you fail to match for a residency in both the military and civilian secotrs, you may be forced to go into flight surgery (dont let the name fool you, you basically become trained in aeronautical medicine and treat pilots before, during, and after flights for related troubles. no surgery).

I asked the person in charge and assisting me on my application and he said this is false.

Nearly everything in the above response is incorrect.

The Army only grants civilian deferrments for those specialties where they determine that they cannot produce enough to fill their projected need (usually Neurosurgery each year, and I think OB/Gyn last year).

The Navy doesn't truly 'require' GMO tours, though a hefty percentage (have heard up to 50%) of their docs do go into the fleet for 2+ years between internship and residency as GMO/DMO/FS.

The Air Force grants the most civilian deferments for training (because they have been closing down their own programs), but still has ~25% of their docs do a Flight Surgeon tour before residency...and its not just for those that fail to match into both civilian and military match.

Likelihood of having GME uninterrupted by a GMO tour: Army > Air Force > Navy

Likelihood of having a civilian deferrment for training: Air Force > Navy >/= Army

 

[Perrotfish]

From a 2nd year medical student:

Disadvantages Army: 15 month deployments (right now), almost no chance of being allowed to do a civilian residency, and not so great base locations.

Advantages Army: Most residencies, by far the greatest chance of straight through training, great hospitals, apparently high satisfaction & retention rate (by military standards, anyway). Also if you join you can now replace time consuming words with a rising vowel sound.

Disadvantages Navy: GMO Tours in between internship and the rest of residency for just about everyone that doesn't want primary care, at least right now. They say GMO tours are mostly going away by the time you're graduating, but do you really want to bet your career on it? Yes you do (well I did anyway).

Advantages Navy: Cool GMO tour options (flight surgeon with more flight training than any other branch, Diving Medical Officer), Ships and Marines, great costal base locations, best uniforms, A good number of in service residencies prevents wild fluctuations in the competiveness of residency slots, but you still have a real (though not reliable) chance for a deferment.

Disadvantages Airforce: Occasionally suffers from wild fluctuations in the number of students allowed to go through a given residency in a given year based on the needs of the Air Force. Fairly high chance of doing a GMO tour after internship and they're not interested in changing that. If you're a GMO I hope you like flight surgery with minimal flight training, cause if there's another option I don't know about it. A surprisingly bad option if you want to minimize your deployments. Seems to produce the greatest dissatisfaction rate on this board. Doctors reporting to line officers? I remember someone on here complaining about that, anyway. I also remember something about a hospital on the verge of losing accreditation for its residencies? Kessler? It definitely started with a 'K'. Finally you're joining a branch of the military with a cool factor roughly equivalent to the postal service.

Advantages: Best chance of a civilian residency. Comfy chairs

Disadvantage all: If if anything I said above is actually right, none of it is set in stone. If they want to make you skip internship, move to Antarctica, guard the ice for the duration of your obligation, and dress up every day in a chicken costume while you do it... well they're free to do that. Semper Gumby.

 

[NavyFP]

Disadvantage all: If if anything I said above is actually right, none of it is set in stone. If they want to make you skip internship, move to Antarctica, guard the ice for the duration of your obligation, and dress up every day in a chicken costume while you do it... well they're free to do that. Semper Gumby.

So true. But you would be warm in the chicken suit.

 

[a1qwerty55]

From a 2nd year medical student:

Disadvantages Army: 15 month deployments (right now), almost no chance of being allowed to do a civilian residency, and not so great base locations.

Advantages Army: Most residencies, by far the greatest chance of straight through training, great hospitals, apparently high satisfaction & retention rate (by military standards, anyway). Also if you join you can now replace time consuming words with a rising vowel sound.

Disadvantages Navy: GMO Tours in between internship and the rest of residency for just about everyone that doesn't want primary care, at least right now. They say GMO tours are mostly going away by the time you're graduating, but do you really want to bet your career on it? Yes you do (well I did anyway).

Advantages Navy: Cool GMO tour options (flight surgeon with more flight training than any other branch, Diving Medical Officer), Ships and Marines, great costal base locations, best uniforms, A good number of in service residencies prevents wild fluctuations in the competiveness of residency slots, but you still have a real (though not reliable) chance for a deferment.

Disadvantages Airforce: Occasionally suffers from wild fluctuations in the number of students allowed to go through a given residency in a given year based on the needs of the Air Force. Fairly high chance of doing a GMO tour after internship and they're not interested in changing that. If you're a GMO I hope you like flight surgery with minimal flight training, cause if there's another option I don't know about it. A surprisingly bad option if you want to minimize your deployments. Seems to produce the greatest dissatisfaction rate on this board. Doctors reporting to line officers? I remember someone on here complaining about that, anyway. I also remember something about a hospital on the verge of losing accreditation for its residencies? Kessler? It definitely started with a 'K'. Finally you're joining a branch of the military with a cool factor roughly equivalent to the postal service.

Advantages: Best chance of a civilian residency. Comfy chairs

Disadvantage all: If if anything I said above is actually right, none of it is set in stone. If they want to make you skip internship, move to Antarctica, guard the ice for the duration of your obligation, and dress up every day in a chicken costume while you do it... well they're free to do that. Semper Gumby.

Army deployments are back to 12 months with the exception of 82nd who just got extended in Afghanistan.

 

[pgg]

I hear they make you say "hoah" a lot in the Army. Extra reps required right before they deploy you for 2x as long as the Navy does.


On a more serious note, these days when a premed asks me about military medicine, I tell them FAP is the way to go. I won't rehash what I've posted on this forum 80 times already, but the short version is that I think it's risky to commit yourself to whatever military GME might be like in whatever field you choose 5-10 years from now.

 

[silverhorse84]

I hear they make you say "hoah" a lot in the Army. Extra reps required right before they deploy you for 2x as long as the Navy does.

It bugs me so much when my classmates do this. But a couple of them tend to draw it out and add an inflection on the end so it sounds more like "hooooaaaah?" If they did it short and sweet I don't think it would bug me so much.

Anyway, I don't have anything constructive to add, so back to the topic at hand...

 

[dtn3t]

??

82nd Airborne is in the process of taking over Anbar in Iraq.

The DIV may be split up. With the new Modular Combat Brigades, the whole division doesn't need to go to the same place as each Brigade Combat Team has everything it needs (Infantry, Armor, CAV, FA, Support elements).

 

[dtn3t]

I don't know crap about the Army, so pardon my ignorance in asking this:

Would they still call it 82nd Airborne in both places? Or do the pieces that get split off have different names, like BCT-X?

Exactly. 82nd has: 1BCT, 2BCT, 3BCT, 4BCT, Sustainment BDE, Combat Aviation BDE. The BCTs are modular and self sufficient on their own (for the most part).

One BCT can go to Iraq, the other to Afcrapistan. Sustainment goes in their own little pieces... DIV HQ goes and becomes the MND-x higher headquarters with different BCTs from different DIVs underneath them. This way, one DIV HQ could theoretically have a Heavy BCT, a Stryker BCT, an Airborne BCT, and an Infantry (formerly Light) BCT all underneath it. Hence, some Soldiers can wear different combat patches from one deployment as they get to wear their parent unit or the unit of their higher HQ. It's Army. It makes sense for it to be confusing.

Make sense?

 

[mslall]

It bugs me so much when my classmates do this. But a couple of them tend to draw it out and add an inflection on the end so it sounds more like "hooooaaaah?" If they did it short and sweet I don't think it would bug me so much.

Anyway, I don't have anything constructive to add, so back to the topic at hand...

the "hooooaaaahhh" or more appropriately "huuuuuuuuuhhhh" you hear in class is not meant seriously.....its usually done when the professors say something that everyone is looking forward to (sarcasm font) like.........."you have a human context paper due....(enter date right before an exam)....." or some otherwise AWESOME (sarcasm font) task. We're not complete *****, though we do look like security guards in our sweet, new class Bs

 

[PsxDcSquall]

I also have a question in regards to the quality of training you receive during the military.

On this board I have read mixed reviews some say the military provides you with excellent training while others say it is sub par. I have read that in the military you may not have as much exposure to patients as you would practicing as a civilian.

Oh and one more thing, right now the 2 specialties I am considering the most are endocrinology and cardiology(non surgical), what would be the likely hood of me being able to do either of these in the military.

Thanks!

 

[a1qwerty55]

??

82nd Airborne is in the process of taking over Anbar in Iraq.

I don't make this stuff up.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/200...ugh-mission-afghanistan-new-strategy-succeed/

 

[AFDuck]

From a 2nd year medical student:

Disadvantages Airforce: Occasionally suffers from wild fluctuations in the number of students allowed to go through a given residency in a given year based on the needs of the Air Force. Fairly high chance of doing a GMO tour after internship and they're not interested in changing that. If you're a GMO I hope you like flight surgery with minimal flight training, cause if there's another option I don't know about it. A surprisingly bad option if you want to minimize your deployments. Seems to produce the greatest dissatisfaction rate on this board. Doctors reporting to line officers? I remember someone on here complaining about that, anyway. I also remember something about a hospital on the verge of losing accreditation for its residencies? Kessler? It definitely started with a 'K'. Finally you're joining a branch of the military with a cool factor roughly equivalent to the postal service.

Advantages: Best chance of a civilian residency. Comfy chairs

My big beef with this info is that you are just repeating the opinions of the tiny sample of AF docs that roam this board. All of the AF docs I have met are much happier than the ones around here. Still though, I realize that my own experience is limited (although less than your's on this topic), so to the OP don't regard any opinion or experience here as pervasive fact.

 

[Charlie0318]

My big beef with this info is that you are just repeating the opinions of the tiny sample of AF docs that roam this board. All of the AF docs I have met are much happier than the ones around here. Still though, I realize that my own experience is limited (although less than your's on this topic), so to the OP don't regard any opinion or experience here as pervasive fact.

Would you mind sharing some of your positive experiences with AF medicine??

All opinions are biased, that is why it is good to always get both sides of the story as the truth is somewhere in between. I have only really seen the one side (the negative side) of AF medicine on this forum and would love a positive counter balance to get some idea of what it is actually like.

Not trying to discredit the negative posts people have done, just that not everyone hates it and I would love to see what the people who enjoy, or at least don't hate it, have to say

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

I also remember something about a hospital on the verge of losing accreditation for its residencies? Kessler? It definitely started with a 'K'.

Keesler AFB in Biloxi, MS was hit hard by Hurricane Katrina and stopped accepting residents for awhile. All their programs are up and running now however, it was never an 'accreditation' issue per se, although I have heard from interns in both IM and GS there that q2-q3 call was not uncommon due to lack of upper level residents. At the same time their experience was described as overall positive, for example R1-2s working directly with an attending taking the lead on procedures that would anywhere else had them doing suction and sew behind the seniors. Residents were and still are doing away rotations at nearby University Hospital in Jackson, which has the large volume subspecialty/trauma/intensive care etc. of a typical Level I city hospital.

 

[AFDuck]

One small correction about Keesler's GME programs is that they have not regained accreditation for their former pediatrics program. When it closed the AF took some peds spots in Washington DC (triservice) and Portsmouth (Navy). I've heard mixed messages about the chances of it ever coming back.

Like I said before, I am a 4th year med student, so I have not seen all their is to see wthin AF medicine. My experiences include COT (which was fairly benign and I met a bunch of really cool people), HPSP in general (no real problems with money or support), a peds ADT in San Antonio, and interviews at the other 3 AF peds programs (WP AFB in Dayton, DC, and Portsmouth). Obviously, I have interacted the most with pediatricians and peds residents, but I met no one who said they regretted their decision to enter AF medicine (even in many private, candid conversations). A lot of them get out when their committment is up, but most are basing those decisions on personal/family reasons. In general, I think the peds training is more than adequate, although generally more geared towards gen peds than subspecialty. I am considering pushing for a civilian deferment because of my interest in subspecialty peds, but I would be happy at the AF programs as well.

Now clearly I know the most about peds, no denying that. However, the students doing ADTs in various fields in San Antonio that I met were happy with the programs as well. One big complaint on this board is regarding flight surgery tours. I totally understand that it would be frustrating not to get placed into a straight though GME program, and I imagine there are some really crappy assignments out there. The two former flight surgeons I have gotten to know both fulfilled their committments with FS tours and got out to do civilian residency. Both tell me that they felt fairly in control of the placement process and look back on their FS time favorably. I would guess that there is tremendous variability in these experiences, and the outlook of a person who chooses a FS tour vs. that of one who is placed in FS after not matching is probably very different. Like the Navy, students interested in primary care fields are much less likely to be forced into FS tours than those who go for the more competitive fields. I joined my first year of med school with the knowledge that I was most interested in a primary care residency, so knowing that I would likely train straight through was a comfort to me. I'm also a good student at a very good school, so I took some comfort in that as well. However, many students do change their minds about their specialty again and again, which while healthy and normal, can make the decision on HPSP a bit trickier I believe. If I thought I was between derm, rads, and ortho, I would say HPSP is a big risk, if you're strongly opposed to interrupting your training with a FS tour. I think someone else mentioned it, but if I was starting out again I would strongly consider FAP over HPSP as the money is similar and you have freedom in the match process. When I signed up for HPSP the FAP money was much, much less so it didn't make sense then. Good luck with your decision

 

[jd23]

I would say HPSP is a big risk, if you're strongly opposed to interrupting your training with a FS tour. I think someone else mentioned it, but if I was starting out again I would strongly consider FAP over HPSP as the money is similar and you have freedom in the match process. When I signed up for HPSP the FAP money was much, much less so it didn't make sense then. Good luck with your decision

I thought FAP = fee assistance program for AMCAS? Does FAP refer to something much cooler and more helpful than I could have ever dreamed of?

Please someone explain this

 

[notdeadyet]

I thought FAP = fee assistance program for AMCAS? Does FAP refer to something much cooler and more helpful than I could have ever dreamed of?

Please someone explain this

FAP is Financial Assistance Program which gives a stipend to docs in residency in exchange for full-time service after. Go to the main Military Medicine forum page and click on the stickies to find out details.

 

[Mirror Form]

Like I said before, I am a 4th year med student, so I have not seen all their is to see wthin AF medicine. My experiences include COT (which was fairly benign and I met a bunch of really cool people), HPSP in general (no real problems with money or support), a peds ADT in San Antonio, and interviews at the other 3 AF peds programs (WP AFB in Dayton, DC, and Portsmouth). Obviously, I have interacted the most with pediatricians and peds residents, but I met no one who said they regretted their decision to enter AF medicine (even in many private, candid conversations). A lot of them get out when their committment is up, but most are basing those decisions on personal/family reasons. In general, I think the peds training is more than adequate, although generally more geared towards gen peds than subspecialty.

I agree that the peds training is probably more than adequate. However, medical students (especially ones doing "audition rotations") typically do not get the full story from attendings and residents. It doesn't matter how candid you think those private conversations were, people are still going to try and be positive toward med students.