military medicine

[borat2008]

haven't seen many threads about this in the pre-allo section for this app cycle, but i wanted to know what some of the current applicants think about the HSPS or other service scholarships. anyone have any interesting perspectives or comments?


to be preemptive: i know, i could just search the military med forum for answers (which i have), but i want to see what you guys think. also, im not asking you guys to make a decision for me. its a HUGE commitment that should take weeks of self reflection before committing.

thanks guys

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[armybound]

as you might gather from my user name, I once thought that military medicine/USUHS was the way for me. after reading the military med forum, I decided against it.

HPSP does have the advantage of eliminating a huge potential debt. It also has its drawbacks in your time commitment to the military, which won't be spent like most normal physicians. if you read the milmed forum, you'll see that they have many gripes about the administrative aspects of their jobs and the attitude of their coworkers. if money is an issue, just think of how many physicians are out there today who paid for school through loans yet still manage to live a normal life with a decent income.

the real kicker for me was the uncertainty of the length of commitment. maybe they send you on a GMO tour for a couple of years.. maybe they send you on a couple of GMO tours. they can do that if they want and you have no say. maybe they don't need any dermatologists so you get stuck for the rest of your life doing a specialty you didn't really want to do. no thanks, I'll choose my own specialty on my own terms.

 

[borat2008]

yeah, i was thinking that too about the specialty interruption. another thing i wondered was would they help pay loans off if i waited until after i got into my residency i wanted? also, could they deploy you mid-residency? i know they commonly send off docs after intern year for 4 years (which i think would make it real difficult to come back competitively skillwise for your residency btw).

 

[armybound]

there is another program called FAP where they will basically double your residency income in exchange for commitment, but they won't pay back your loans for you.

I don't know if they will deploy you during a residency, you should ask the military med forum that. just thinking logically, I don't see why they couldn't.. you're trained to do a GMO job, if they really needed you I don't think they'd care if you're in the middle of training.

a lot of military physicians also complain of a lack of patients, so your skills would also deteriorate due to that. these are all reasons I decided against military medicine for now.

 

[gators13]

I applied for the HPSP through the Navy, Army, and Air Force.

For those considering it, but (like me) are a bit unsure of which route to take...here's what I know (please correct me if I am wrong)...

The Army is the only branch in the military that puts in writing that you will not be sent out on a GMO tour. This being said, if you're needed as a GMO, they'll find a way around the paper work.

The Navy released information saying that the GMO tours will be phased out of 2010 or 2011 (I can't remember which one, but I know it is before 2012).

The Air Force still uses GMO tours for doctors who do not get a military residency. From what I have learned (I think), after med school if you are not selected for a military residency then you can serve a year as a flight surgeon or a year or two as a GMO and then reapply for military residency (GMO tours strengthen your chances of getting a military residency).

The Army and Navy offer a $20,000 signing bonus. I'm not sure when it is awarded.

When I was getting my physical for the Army, it was made clear to me that everyone in the Army is a soldier, doctors included. This is great if that is your interest. The Army also referred to the Air Force as the "country club" of the military branches.

I am 75% positive that I am going to commission into the Navy, but if anyone has thoughts on this please post.

 

[NewmansOwn]

You guys are aware that they can force you into a speciality if they have a dire need, right? The military always reserves the right to put you where they need you, as you are a soldier first and a doctor second. That alone was enough to dissuade me. I've never really understood why folks think this is such a good idea -- of course, I understand the prospect of not having any loans is comfortable and reassuring, but it's true 10 times out of 10 that an HPSP recipient is NEVER better off financially than a student who takes out loans and goes into private practice. If you crunch the numbers, you'll see that private practice doctors, even with hefty loan payments, have a higher income than military doctors from the very beginning. Also, since the medical corps is based on rank, not education level, it's not uncommon to find yourself being given orders by a nurse. I don't know about you, but I'm willing to admit my pride wouldn't stand for that BS. Throw in the loss of autonomy, freedom and security and I think the only reason you should do it is if you're absolutely positive you want to be in the military, for whatever reason.

Check out the great post by a military resident on the military medicine forum entitled '47 (and counting) reasons NOT to join...'

 

[gators13]

any posts by people who think HPSP is a good idea?

 

[midn]

You guys are aware that they can force you into a speciality if they have a dire need, right?

I don't believe that is true. More competitive residencies will be harder to get into to the point that you may consider another specialty to avoid a (or another) GMO tour (at least for the Navy).

You can keep opting to do GMO tours if you don't get the residency of your choice and then try your luck matching in the civilian world.

 

[Jolie South]

I don't believe that is true. More competitive residencies will be harder to get into to the point that you may consider another specialty to avoid a (or another) GMO tour (at least for the Navy).

You can keep opting to do GMO tours if you don't get the residency of your choice and then try your luck matching in the civilian world.

I know nobody wants to hear this, but I e-mailed back and forth extensively with a guy that was a flight surgeon.

He matched into a categorical surg residency and decided after intern year that surgery was not for him. So, he decided to go the flight surgeon route and then do the civilian match after his service. He's currently doing a medicine residency.

Anyways, he was telling me that although he had to do many tasks outside the realm of what a civilian dr would do, that he didn't regret going the way he did. He said he got a lot of opportunities to do/see things that he never would have had otherwise and that in general he felt it was a character building experience. He honed leadership skills and he said that he feels today he is a better physician for the time he spent there.

I guess it depends on what you're looking to gain from it. I personally would have zero problem with the service. I'm just not ready to sign away my chances to go straight through residency, if I choose, or to force my husband to move around and not start a career for 4 years. My perception would probably be different if I was single.

 

[gators13]

I don't believe that is true. More competitive residencies will be harder to get into to the point that you may consider another specialty to avoid a (or another) GMO tour (at least for the Navy).

You can keep opting to do GMO tours if you don't get the residency of your choice and then try your luck matching in the civilian world.

If you don't get a military residency, you have the option to try for a civial residency, right?...if you do no get either, that is when you are sent out as a GMO?

 

[tkim]

If you don't get a military residency, you have the option to try for a civial residency, right?...if you do no get either, that is when you are sent out as a GMO?

You really ought to ask these questions in the military med forum. I don't see how asking other premeds versus people who are already in military medicine gives you more accurate info.

 

[gators13]

You really ought to ask these questions in the military med forum. I don't see how asking other premeds versus people who are already in military medicine gives you more accurate info.

Thanks for your insight. I have posted in the military medicine forum before, and I have asked all of these questions to all three of my military recruiters. I was wondering what other premeds considering the HPSP have been told or what they have found out.

 

[NewmansOwn]

I don't believe that is true. More competitive residencies will be harder to get into to the point that you may consider another specialty to avoid a (or another) GMO tour (at least for the Navy).

You can keep opting to do GMO tours if you don't get the residency of your choice and then try your luck matching in the civilian world.

You don't have to believe me. Read the fine print on a contract. I talked to a recruiter and looked at a sample contract and it says right there, in black and white, the military reserves the right to utilize any and all resources (people) to fill any need.

In reference to the individual who said you could do 4 years of GMO then try your lucky in the civilian world: Yes, that's (in most cases) true...but seriously? Would you want to do that? 4 years as a GMO sounds like pure, undistilled hell to me, but if it's for some people, then why not, I suppose?

But keep this in mind: You'll have done a military internship before your 4 year GMO stretch soooo...when you apply to residencies in the civilian world after being bent over the table by the military for 4 years, they can and will tell you to take your internship year over because a) it's been 4 years since you did it and you're probably rusty and b) with more and more programs becoming intergrated, a PGY2 candidate is between a rock and a hard place. Check out the mil med forum -- this has happened to countless people. If you can stand the thought of doing your internship over again, my hat is off to you, because you have a stronger stomach than I.