Military PA vs DO

[ladysmanfelpz]

Will be a third year applicant, but bolstered my stats and talked with advisors and believe I will have no trouble getting into a DO school this cycle. I have never been to certain of becoming a physician and believe this indecisiveness has led me to where I am at. I keep hearing things of how pay is decreasing, satisfaction is decreasing, and you get no benefits as you are the provider of care and also provider of benefits to the staff below you. I am not biased towards one or the other. I do think what I lack is that innate drive of "I have to help people" that most other people say they have gets them into the medical field. Although I know this is not a written rule and from my experience working in the field, many physicians care about their compensation and status.

I guess it does come down to finances and lifestyle. I come from a fairly well off family, my dad being and EM physician, mother a dentist, sister an ortho PA, and uncle Major in the military and civilian airline pilot. I started looking more at the military PA route after a PA my father works with followed the route. My cousin is also in air guard, but unable to become a pilot because he is red/green colorblind and so pursuing commercial, but from discussion with him he informed me that even in the Guard you can become a pilot. My father dreamed of becoming a pilot but also was unable to also due to vision. Not trying to follow footsteps, but working in the medical field as a 9-5 and then flying cargo planes on the weekend sounds pretty amazing.

Can military physicians have other duties such as flying a planes, or are their duties only physician responsibilities? Who comes out on top; a DO in 300k of debt or a PA paid through military? What about if you give 20 years of service and how does retirement work out? What about lifestyle and job satisfaction?

Main concerns on PA is being limited on what I can practice as you do not have all the duties a doc handles. Please help me make a decision. I have been doing as much research as I can, but would love to hear how it 'actually' works by people in the field. I plan to apply to DO, PA, and cardiac perfusionist schools this May. Have also been working with army and air guard recruiters and will be prepared for officer school soon, but not going to sign any contracts yet. My plan is to maybe next year if I don't get into DO or decide against it.

Sorry for the lengthy posts and again thank you all for you insight.

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[idq1i]

What does any of this have to do with the military? Figure out if you want to be a physician, osteopath, PA or a tech. Military decision comes later. You don't magically get upgraded from PA to MD credentials in the military.

 

[68PGunner]

Will be a third year applicant, but bolstered my stats and talked with advisors and believe I will have no trouble getting into a DO school this cycle. I have never been to certain of becoming a physician and believe this indecisiveness has led me to where I am at. I keep hearing things of how pay is decreasing, satisfaction is decreasing, and you get no benefits as you are the provider of care and also provider of benefits to the staff below you. I am not biased towards one or the other. I do think what I lack is that innate drive of "I have to help people" that most other people say they have gets them into the medical field. Although I know this is not a written rule and from my experience working in the field, many physicians care about their compensation and status.

I guess it does come down to finances and lifestyle. I come from a fairly well off family, my dad being and EM physician, mother a dentist, sister an ortho PA, and uncle Major in the military and civilian airline pilot. I started looking more at the military PA route after a PA my father works with followed the route. My cousin is also in air guard, but unable to become a pilot because he is red/green colorblind and so pursuing commercial, but from discussion with him he informed me that even in the Guard you can become a pilot. My father dreamed of becoming a pilot but also was unable to also due to vision. Not trying to follow footsteps, but working in the medical field as a 9-5 and then flying cargo planes on the weekend sounds pretty amazing.

Can military physicians have other duties such as flying a planes, or are their duties only physician responsibilities? Who comes out on top; a DO in 300k of debt or a PA paid through military? What about if you give 20 years of service and how does retirement work out? What about lifestyle and job satisfaction?

Main concerns on PA is being limited on what I can practice as you do not have all the duties a doc handles. Please help me make a decision. I have been doing as much research as I can, but would love to hear how it 'actually' works by people in the field. I plan to apply to DO, PA, and cardiac perfusionist schools this May. Have also been working with army and air guard recruiters and will be prepared for officer school soon, but not going to sign any contracts yet. My plan is to maybe next year if I don't get into DO or decide against it.

Sorry for the lengthy posts and again thank you all for you insight.

Your 3.4 cgpa and 3.2 sgpa are at the bottom when it comes to pa and do schools. Lol at your unfound obliviousness about how it's not a problem for you to get into a do school during this cycle. Come back here when you're more humble and informed on your abilities and choices. There's no place for rookie babysitting here.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

Why is everyone so critical on here? I'm coming for advice and people always have to criticize and never offer sound advice. Obviously I know they aren't the best, but people have managed much less off than me. I didn't know I wanted to go medical and jumped around many classes in undergrad. Sorry. Now could I get some actual opinions please?

This has to do with military, because there is this thing called time. It never stops. If I don't make a move on something soon, then I'm well behind my peers on a career and have to restart. Especially after this 3 year grace period, then I'll have to go back for more schooling to get in. So my thoughts were looking at military officer school through the guard and working in the medical field. Therefore I wouldn't have to go back for a masters to get into PA school. Sound good? I've heard that the IPAP program can be fairly competitive as well. Would my GPA's have any affect on this? Would a medical background officer have a good chance? Thoughts?

 

[GimpGenius]

Who cares about your peers? Trying to keep up with anyone or conform to someone else's goals/aspirations is an easy way to burn out, regardless of which way you go. From what I'm reading, it doesn't look like you have a well-defined plan of what you want to do. DO/PA/Perfusionist/USAF/Army suggests that either 1) you want to do everything, which is unrealistic, or 2) you're not 100% sure what road you want to take, in which case you should figure that out. If that comes off as hyper-critical, imagine someone saying worse things in your face while you're in the front-leaning rest. That should take some of the edge off.

Basically, find out what you're passionate about, find the best way for you to go about it, and pursue it aggressively. Your questions aren't have too many variables for any one person to give good advice.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

Well I've never known what I want to do. Who does? Everything says do something you love, but many factors come into that. For me it is doing something I am good at that provides enough financial freedom to do the things I like and spend time with the ones I love.

And honestly from my time working in the field its either spend your time treating old people whose health is declining and trying to pretend its interesting and idiots who don't know how to take care of themselves and abuse substances, but you make the big bucks. Or you work as a PA and have the freedom to move between fields and find something that interests you while having less debt and a live a little more of your youth. Again just looking for the oh if I knew this before getting into X, I would have opted for Y.

Not really afraid of burn out unless I choose something I really hate, but whatever I choose I know I will go at it full force and do much better than undergrad. And what did you mean about sitting in the front leaning rest?

 

[j4pac]

You're not by chance lil' Marco Rubio, are you?

 

[68PGunner]

Why is everyone so critical on here? I'm coming for advice and people always have to criticize and never offer sound advice. Obviously I know they aren't the best, but people have managed much less off than me. I didn't know I wanted to go medical and jumped around many classes in undergrad. Sorry. Now could I get some actual opinions please?

This has to do with military, because there is this thing called time. It never stops. If I don't make a move on something soon, then I'm well behind my peers on a career and have to restart. Especially after this 3 year grace period, then I'll have to go back for more schooling to get in. So my thoughts were looking at military officer school through the guard and working in the medical field. Therefore I wouldn't have to go back for a masters to get into PA school. Sound good? I've heard that the IPAP program can be fairly competitive as well. Would my GPA's have any affect on this? Would a medical background officer have a good chance? Thoughts?

IPAP is not available to civilian. LOL at the idea of being a medical officer. I'm going to be nice to you and let you know on a little secret:

Unless you're a provider as a medical officer, you won't treat any patients. Your days as a medical officer mean accounting for over millions $$$ worth of equipment and inventory of medical supplies and vehicles. You will be a soldier first and foremost.

 

[68PGunner]

Lastly, based on your current MCAT score, you're not qualified for the HPSP. You can call bs on me and take you case to a medical recruiter in Seattle assuming that you even have an acceptance to a DO/MD.

 

[pgg]

I plan to apply to DO, PA, and cardiac perfusionist schools this May.

This is a good plan. First order of business is to decide what you want to be, and then make a plan to get there.

Don't join the military unless you want to be in the military. The join/don't-join decision really should have no relation to what kind of medical professional you decide to be. Be careful about letting debt (mis-)calculus drive you toward signing long term contracts to an organization you don't know much about.

Be aware that if you enter any branch of the military in a medical capacity, your opportunity to do "cool military stuff" will be very limited. The commercials and recruiters tell fanciful tales, but the daily truth is much more mundane - and it should be, since taxpayers hired you for your medical credentials.

Regarding flying planes, there are a couple of detours one can take (e.g. flight surgery GMO tours in the Navy) but you certainly will NOT be

working in the medical field as a 9-5 and then flying cargo planes on the weekend

 

[jabreal00]

There was a lot of verbiage with your initial question. The big questions you want to ask yourself is do you want to be a physician or a PA? Do you want to join the military? If you want to be a physician, DO or MD? An easy way to get more clarity is if you know you want to join the military. In the military DO=MD in most if not all specialties. There may be some residual bias in the civilian world with certain surgical sub-specialties or ivory towers type institutions but they are fairly equivalent in the civilian world as well. A PA and physician (MD/DO) aren't equivalent in the military and they play different roles in the health care team. PAs are the physician extenders. There churning and burning in the primary or sub-specialty clinics seeing low acuity but high volume stuff.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

IPAP is not available to civilian. LOL at the idea of being a medical officer. I'm going to be nice to you and let you know on a little secret:

Unless you're a provider as a medical officer, you won't treat any patients. Your days as a medical officer mean accounting for over millions $$$ worth of equipment and inventory of medical supplies and vehicles. You will be a soldier first and foremost.

Can you explain more please? Being a college grad I thought I would enter as an officer (after I pass the school of course) and then would enter into whatever duties I have be it administrative or whatever. I would then have to try and gain experience and get into a medical unit and continue to gain experience there until a PA position opens up that I apply for and if selected I would start the IPAP.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

Regarding flying planes, there are a couple of detours one can take (e.g. flight surgery GMO tours in the Navy) but you certainly will NOT be flying planes on the weekend

How come not? How would you fill your guard duties then? I understand that obviously they will use their investment in their best interest. No point in letting a flight surgeon work in communications, but with part time duty matched with the guard I thought you would work as a PA (dunno if thats all on base or what) and then on the weekends fulfill your guard duties. If not, what would you do to fulfill your part time service?

 

[WernickeDO]

Can you explain more please? Being a college grad I thought I would enter as an officer (after I pass the school of course) and then would enter into whatever duties I have be it administrative or whatever. I would then have to try and gain experience and get into a medical unit and continue to gain experience there until a PA position opens up that I apply for and if selected I would start the IPAP.

If you join the military out of college and you get commissioned (fun fact: having a degree does NOT automatically lead to a commission) and ask for a medical service officer assignment, you may be considered medical service, but your role would be logistics or supply, not seeing patients. Serving some time and then putting in a packet for IPAP is certainly an option, but you will be going up against joes and janes that deployed multiple times, served as senior NCO's or warrant officers, and who have earned their stripes. I can't think of a reason in the world for you to join the military at this stage, unless there is some sort of tuition re-imbursement that they can arrange. If you want to be a PA, apply to civilian PA school. If you want to be a pilot, apply to flight school. You can do both in the military but the days of graduating college and going straight to flight school are diminishing (for now at least, they will go up in the next conflict).

In reading your posts it is obvious that you do not have a clear career path in front of you, and you are having some difficulty in deciding what you want to do. There is nothing wrong with that; after all, not all who wander are lost. But joining the military without a VERY clear plan on your career path and contracts spelling out he language for getting it done is NOT a good move. You seem to see the military as a means to an end, whereas the military sees you as an asset to use and abuse. To join hoping that maybe something will open up to you is risky and deserves a lot of thought. Keep reading this forum and you will get an idea as to ways in which the military can make you ditch your plans and end up doing something else for years at a time. Why do that unless you truly want to serve?

 

[pgg]

Are you talking about joining the military to be a pilot, serving out that obligation, and then going to school to be a PA or physician?

People have done that. It's a long road, and I'm not sure I've ever known anyone who deliberately did that from the start. I have seen pilots get tired of that life and decide to go into medicine. But they've paid a good sized opportunity cost entering medicine so late.

If you're talking about joining in a medical capacity, thinking you'll get some flight training on the side, and then fly missions for the military as the pilot in command, no. At best you could go down he flight surgeon GMO route in the Navy and get some flight training and (mostly ride-along) flight time. Lots of people have done that, but make sure you understand exactly what that is and isn't.

If you want to be a doctor or PA there's no time like the present. Don't play around with other careers first if that's where you want to end up. Because here's what will happen: time will pass, it won't get any easier to enhance your application to school, and it won't get any easier for you to abandon that other career and go to school.

Make a decision and decide what you want to be, and be it.

 

[68PGunner]

Can you explain more please? Being a college grad I thought I would enter as an officer (after I pass the school of course) and then would enter into whatever duties I have be it administrative or whatever. I would then have to try and gain experience and get into a medical unit and continue to gain experience there until a PA position opens up that I apply for and if selected I would start the IPAP.

The cgpa, sgpa, and GRE for IPAP aren't as high as the numbers in civilian programs. However, that doesn't mean that it's easier. In fact, the numbers are skewed on the low end because the program gatekeepers prefer people who have multiple deployments in hostile environments. So, let's put that into perspective if you want to be a competitive candidate. In most cases, your path to medical school or PA school is much faster and easier on the civilian side. If you are really that worried about debt, you can join the Reserve and have up to 240K of your loan forgiven.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

If you are really that worried about debt, you can join the Reserve and have up to 240K of your loan forgiven.

That's the thing. So guard is state funded and reserve federally, correct? I have always wanted to serve my country, but my family also values education very strongly so I attended college first. I am not dead set on a pilot, but at least a duty I enjoy if I go part time, maybe could even do for the next 20 years. It is coming to decision time and know I am human and can really only pursue one avenue; being busy in med school and a practicing physician, or go into the military and hope for IPAP to practice medicine later in life.

 

[schmoob]

Dude, what the heck do you want to do?!!?!? Lots of "buts" in your questionstatements.
I can guarantee you that you will not go to IPAP and then become an MD/PA/Pilot.
Do NOT go into the military hoping for IPAP. I could be wrong here but I believe that is an enlisted route into becoming a PA. If you enlist for the sheer purpose of going to IPAP you will be VERY disappointed.
If you're confident in getting into DO school, go that route.
If you want to be a pilot, commission and go to flight school.
If you want to be a PA, apply to PA school and try for HPSP.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

I can guarantee you that you will not go to IPAP and then become an MD/PA/Pilot.
Do NOT go into the military hoping for IPAP. I could be wrong here but I believe that is an enlisted route into becoming a PA. If you enlist for the sheer purpose of going to IPAP you will be VERY disappointed.

This is what I was mainly looking for, the chances of becoming a military PA if I go that route. I have little desire to be a pilot as I know that is unrealistic, just heard that those are positions filled by guard duties and was hoping I could get into one if I went military route. I am hopeful for DO and that is what I am mainly striving for. Is IPAP that competitive then?

 

[schmoob]

SUPER COMPETITIVE. If you want to be in the military for healthcare, get into DO school or a PA program. Try for HPSP if you can get it. If not, take out your loans and come in as a Direct Accession. You will either be able to pay it off or if you plan on staying in a while you can use PSLF.

 

[LineMedic]

I'm not a doc, I'm starting my journey so take that into consideration with my answer. But, it seems you're not sure about what you want to do. My suggestion may be a bit unorthodox, but here goes.

Why don't you go enlisted as a 68C?

Before you knock what I'm saying read on.

Here's why:

Self admittedly you are considering PA school, but undecided. The army has one, but getting in and succeeding can be hard from the outside, from what I've been told. A 68C is an LPN cert. Yeah it sucks in comparison to being a PA. Not being able to write scripts and the like can suck, but if you're not 100% certain if that's where you really want to be, why do it? Think of it this way, would you want someone treating your illness or injury that isn't truly passionate about it? I wouldn't...

As a 68C you would be in an almost strictly hospital setting and could work for a plethora of departments and get to see first hand what MDs, DOs and PAs do. This way you can get a feel for what departments you like and get real world experience instead of what someone else told you. Nothing anyone can tell you will trump your own first hand experience.

With a degree and your experience from a 68C you would have a leg up on other enlisted persons trying to get in to AMEDD PA program. With a BS and an LPN cert, you would most likely have all of the pre-reqs in the bag and then some. You may find you like nursing instead. AMEDD has a nursing program as well and could eventually be a NP. 68C enlistment contract should be 4-5 years maybe 6, talk to a recruiter. If that doesn't work you could go green to gold if you already have a degree. If that doesn't work or you decide to get out, and then apply to med school you will have served your country and gained experience at the same time. Also, you would have GI bill benefits to use towards med school.

You could also go regular medic enlisted 68B. The contract time is much shorter, I think it's 36 months. You will get the trauma side training and might work at a hospital, but most likely will be in a field unit.

Overall, you don't sound dedicated to your path. Maybe you need a little experience before making a lifelong decision.

Just my thoughts.

 

[68PGunner]

I'm not a doc, I'm starting my journey so take that into consideration with my answer. But, it seems you're not sure about what you want to do. My suggestion may be a bit unorthodox, but here goes.

Why don't you go enlisted as a 68C?

Before you knock what I'm saying read on.

Here's why:

Self admittedly you are considering PA school, but undecided. The army has one, but getting in and succeeding can be hard from the outside, from what I've been told. A 68C is an LPN cert. Yeah it sucks in comparison to being a PA. Not being able to write scripts and the like can suck, but if you're not 100% certain if that's where you really want to be, why do it? Think of it this way, would you want someone treating your illness or injury that isn't truly passionate about it? I wouldn't...

As a 68C you would be in an almost strictly hospital setting and could work for a plethora of departments and get to see first hand what MDs, DOs and PAs do. This way you can get a feel for what departments you like and get real world experience instead of what someone else told you. Nothing anyone can tell you will trump your own first hand experience.

With a degree and your experience from a 68C you would have a leg up on other enlisted persons trying to get in to AMEDD PA program. With a BS and an LPN cert, you would most likely have all of the pre-reqs in the bag and then some. You may find you like nursing instead. AMEDD has a nursing program as well and could eventually be a NP. 68C enlistment contract should be 4-5 years maybe 6, talk to a recruiter. If that doesn't work you could go green to gold if you already have a degree. If that doesn't work or you decide to get out, and then apply to med school you will have served your country and gained experience at the same time. Also, you would have GI bill benefits to use towards med school.

You could also go regular medic enlisted 68B. The contract time is much shorter, I think it's 36 months. You will get the trauma side training and might work at a hospital, but most likely will be in a field unit.

Overall, you don't sound dedicated to your path. Maybe you need a little experience before making a lifelong decision.

Just my thoughts.

This is terrible advice on so many levels. I'm now questioning whether your handle reflects you. As a 68C, you're not guaranteed clinical work. You can be assigned to a slot with a Charlie Medical Company at a BSB or a Combat Support Hospital (CSH). That means learning to clean toilets, do inventory on medical supplies, set up Role-2 tents, and be a great bus driver.

 

[ladysmanfelpz]

Yeah that seems like I'm taking a big step back linemedic. I'm not that lost, but turning 26 and reaching the 3rd year applicant stage had me a little frantic. I mainly asked about PA with guard duties as I thought it may give me a second out in case I don't enjoy medicine too much. But from this discussion if I was a PA thru military looks like my guard duties would be being a PA anyway. So looks like the discussion goes back to DO vs PA vs something else entirely.


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