Military Pay as a GMO

[EMTB2MD]

Hello everyone,

I've been reading the threads in the military forum for the past few weeks (haven't been scared away yet) and was curious about what a GMO makes fresh out of medical school (assuming no prior military experience and accepting an HPSP scholarship). From what understand it looks like a GMO would make: Basic pay based on rank + BAS + BAH + VSP (only $100 per month??). Some websites I've been to say that all GMOs including interns and residents make an additional $15K. What is a ballpark average pay one could expect as an O2 serving as a GMO in 2009?

Thanks

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[colbgw02]

Hello everyone,

I've been reading the threads in the military forum for the past few weeks (haven't been scared away yet) and was curious about what a GMO makes fresh out of medical school (assuming no prior military experience and accepting an HPSP scholarship). From what understand it looks like a GMO would make: Basic pay based on rank + BAS + BAH + VSP (only $100 per month??). Some websites I've been to say that all GMOs including interns and residents make an additional $15K. What is a ballpark average pay one could expect as an O2 serving as a GMO in 2009?

Thanks

1. Try searching the forum. Your question has been answered many times and in very great detail.

2. Just to be clear:

a. GMOs may be undertrained, but they aren't "fresh out of medical school". There is an internship stuck between the two.

b. You won't be an O2 serving as a GMO. All active duty physicians are at least O3s.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

Some websites I've been to say that all GMOs including interns and residents make an additional $15K.

Thanks

I was wondering the same thing. I didn't think that doc's received any annual bonuses until after they completed their residency. Would we actually receive annual bonuses before that?

 

[TheGoose]

1. Try searching the forum. Your question has been answered many times and in very great detail.

.

Not only has it been answered many times in the past.....but it was answered 3 days ago and is on the very first page of this forum =0 http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=651059

wonderful tidbits that answer your question explicitly:

edmadison: You should be getting base salary plus BAH and BAS, like all soldiers. Every physician gets Additional Special Pay (ASP) 15,000 yearly (usually in July, but you'll get it when you start). If you are a specialist, you'll also get Incentive Special Pay (ISP) between 20K and 36K yearly. You also get VSP which varies depending on years of service. For the first six years this is 416/month. If you are board certified you'll get 208/month. If you are a flight surgeon in a flight surgeon billet, you get ACIP (flight pay). This varies between 125 and 840/month based on how many years it's been since you graduated from the flight surgeon course

sethco with a little more detail on the special pays:

VSP: Done through finance. Should be automatic. 5K paid in monthly installments (416/month I think). make sure finance is getting you this, but it may take a couple months to go through.

ASP: 15K/year, paid in one lump sum. The application for this can be found on the knowledge exchange, under popular links click on medical special pays. The application needs to be signed by your med group commander. This pay commits to 1 more year from the date it is paid, so be careful about the timing that you take this for your last year of your GMO tour, as it may affect you when you can get out to go into residency.

 

[pgg]

edmadison: You should be getting base salary plus BAH and BAS, like all soldiers. Every physician gets Additional Special Pay (ASP) 15,000 yearly (usually in July, but you'll get it when you start).

Interns & residents don't get ASP. GMOs do.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

Interns & residents don't get ASP. GMOs do.

But all MD's get the VSP of $416 a month?

At least there's something to look forward to if you have to do a GMO tour. Going straight through in training would be ideal, but an extra 15K annually might reduce the pain......a little.

 

[sethco]

But all MD's get the VSP of $416 a month?

At least there's something to look forward to if you have to do a GMO tour. Going straight through in training would be ideal, but an extra 15K annually might reduce the pain......a little.

No, it does not.

T-minus 10 months and counting down...

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

No, it does not.

T-minus 10 months and counting down...

Lol. Well why does your status say attending? GMO's are considered attendings?

****, I just noticed your signature with all the info. 4 years as a GMO, that's brutal. Just one more reason I wouldn't pick Air Force.

 

[TheGoose]

But all MD's get the VSP of $416 a month?

you quoted the answer to your question when you asked your question....

Interns & residents don't get ASP. GMOs do.

****, I just noticed your signature with all the info. 4 years as a GMO, that's brutal. Just one more reason I wouldn't pick Air Force.

4 years as a GMO has nothing to do with air force. its not that he couldn't have had a residency......he chose to do 4 yrs and get outta Dodge. Not uncommon in any branch

 

[sethco]

GMO's are considered attendings?

Depends who you ask and what their definition of attending is. Believe me, I am counting down the days until my status changes back to resident.

4 years as a GMO has nothing to do with air force. its not that he couldn't have had a residency......he chose to do 4 yrs and get outta Dodge. Not uncommon in any branch

Yep.

My wife and kids are done with the deployments and want me off Active Duty. I will be entering residency next July and serve out my remaining MSO in the PA Guard.

Incidentally, the Guard has really good benefits for the GMOs re-entering residency after completing their ADSO, especially considering you are non-deployable during residency.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

you quoted the answer to your question when you asked your question....

Here's the quote I quoted:

Interns & residents don't get ASP. GMOs do.

Nothing about VSP in there.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

Is the consensus pretty much that AF GMO tours suck a lot more than Navy GMO tours? I understand that each person can have a different experience, i'm just wondering about the average like/dislike of each.

Also, is being a GMO just a pain in the azz job? If you pay me 100k+ (which is what it looks like from the base pay, bah, bas and bonuses) to work 7-5 for a couple years, I won't have a problem with it. Is it usually just long grueling hours? What's the ****ty part outside of not being in residency like you're supposed to be?


Any answers are greatly appreciated. Especially from people who are currently doing, or in the past have done, GMO tours.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Is the consensus pretty much that AF GMO tours suck a lot more than Navy GMO tours? I understand that each person can have a different experience, i'm just wondering about the average like/dislike of each.

Also, is being a GMO just a pain in the azz job? If you pay me 100k+ (which is what it looks like from the base pay, bah, bas and bonuses) to work 7-5 for a couple years, I won't have a problem with it. Is it usually just long grueling hours? What's the ****ty part outside of not being in residency like you're supposed to be?


Any answers are greatly appreciated. Especially from people who are currently doing, or in the past have done, GMO tours.

No, I am sure the Navy could give you a GMO assignment you could learn to hate.

From the perspective of money, it might look tolerable. That is deceiving.
You will appreciate more the importance of having the timely opportunity to do your residency training if not during your GMO tour then when you actually do your residency.

The GMO assignment is just a stupid, reckless anachronistic practice the services just cannot bring themselves to to stop. It has no justifiable place in the formation of doctors and has been out of date with the modern concept of complete medical training since the 1950s.

 

[TheGoose]

Here's the quote I quoted:

my bad

 

[sethco]

Is the consensus pretty much that AF GMO tours suck a lot more than Navy GMO tours? I understand that each person can have a different experience, i'm just wondering about the average like/dislike of each.

Also, is being a GMO just a pain in the azz job? If you pay me 100k+ (which is what it looks like from the base pay, bah, bas and bonuses) to work 7-5 for a couple years, I won't have a problem with it. Is it usually just long grueling hours? What's the ****ty part outside of not being in residency like you're supposed to be?


Any answers are greatly appreciated. Especially from people who are currently doing, or in the past have done, GMO tours.

GMO tours vary considerably by base location, command structure, primary airframe, deploying schedule, working hours, staffing and so on. While I have met people that have loved their assignment (in fact, mine is not that bad), invariably almost all are counting down the days until they go back into residency. Moreover, for those that are HPSP matriculants (no excessive ADSO), they just serve out their remaining time and then go into residency, free of any commitment. I get the same impression from the Navy GMOs that I have met, but I have much more experience with the AF GMOs.

You can search my previous posts, as I have gone over numerous times the average workday of a flight surgeon and the likes/dislikes. Most of the GMOs that I have met in the AF have similar likes/dislikes with their job.

Secondly, I don't where you are throwing around 100K. We definitely don't make that much. During your first year, expect to GROSS about 75K, depending on location/BAH (12K BAH + 2K BAS + 40K Base + 15K ASP + 5K VSP + 1.5K Flight = Roughly 75.5 K/year before deductions)

 

[sethco]

No, I am sure the Navy could give you a GMO assignment you could learn to hate.

From the perspective of money, it might look tolerable. That is deceiving.
You will appreciate more the importance of having the timely opportunity to do your residency training if not during your GMO tour then when you actually do your residency.

The GMO assignment is just a stupid, reckless anachronistic practice the services just cannot bring themselves to to stop. It has no justifiable place in the formation of doctors and has been out of date with the modern concept of complete medical training since the 1950s.

Cosign

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

Secondly, I don't where you are throwing around 100K. We definitely don't make that much. During your first year, expect to GROSS about 75K, depending on location/BAH (12K BAH + 2K BAS + 40K Base + 15K ASP + 5K VSP + 1.5K Flight = Roughly 75.5 K/year before deductions)

The 100K is reached very easily if you are stationed in Norfolk or San Diego in the Navy, and are prior service. San Diego BAH is well over 2K a month, and Norfolk is a little under 2K. I just figured the likely hood of being in one of those 2 cities as a Navy GMO would be pretty high.

 

[NoMoreAMCAS]

The GMO assignment is just a stupid, reckless anachronistic practice the services just cannot bring themselves to to stop. It has no justifiable place in the formation of doctors and has been out of date with the modern concept of complete medical training since the 1950s.

Agreed, I don't get it either. Preferably I will be allowed to go straight through in training should I choose the military. But i'll still be mentally prepared to have my training delayed.

 

[pgg]

Also, is being a GMO just a pain in the azz job?

There's a lot of administrative work and management. There are deployments.

If you pay me 100k+ (which is what it looks like from the base pay, bah, bas and bonuses) to work 7-5 for a couple years, I won't have a problem with it. Is it usually just long grueling hours? What's the ****ty part outside of not being in residency like you're supposed to be?

I was basically happy during my GMO tour, but never lost sight of the fact that the Navy was screwing me out of 3 years' worth of ISP (which amounts to over $100K). Had I gone straight through to residency, all of my payback years would have been served out earning attending pay. Instead, 3 of those years were served out earning GMO pay. The difference for an anesthesiologist is $36,000 lost (not earned) per year spent as GMO.

The $15K ASP bonus looks nice from one's view as an intern's, but one should temper that enthusiasm by remembering the broader picture: fewer years earning attending pay. Some GMO tours in some locations with some units may be rewarding, but GMO tours are neither financially nor professionally advantageous to physicians ... whatever anyone says about leadership and experience.