Military Pharmacy Job Outlook

[Sir Rx 23]

I have been hearing about how bad the job market is for pharmacists, especially new grads. Is the military the same way or is there some demand? I am really looking at the Navy but could be convinced otherwise. Thanks in advance!

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[US Army Healthcare]

There is some demand in the Army for sure. The program is competitive but if you have a competitive GPA then there are definitely opportunities available. I am a healthcare recruiter for the Army and can definitely answer more questions if you want to shoot me a private message.

 

[Atlas Shrugged]

Another one, really?

Not you OP, the recruiter.

 

[US Army Healthcare]

Another one, really?

Not you OP, the recruiter.

I understand that there is a negative view towards recruiters in some of these threads. I can tell you that I am not here to spread any misinformation or try to tell anyone what it is they should do regarding their career. That is their decision to make. I am only here to answer questions and get people in touch with someone who can answer the questions that I do not know the answer to.

 

[Homunculus]

Another one, really?

Not you OP, the recruiter.

not to defend the actions of some of the previous recruiters, but lately we've had some great advice and input from our more recent recruiter members. like it or not, they usually have access to the latest/most up to date info and have personal experience with especially the administrative side of things which has been a great resource for our members. I think as they enter the forum and see the skeletonized remains of their predecessors they understand the risk here, and I am grateful they have the courage to stick around and contribute-- with the caveat of course that they stick to their lane. hopefully it's a mutually beneficial relationship, and they can take things from this forum and integrate it into their recruiting practices.

in the meantime, I hope they continue to build on their recent successes and contributions.

--your friendly neighborhood be nice to the houseguests caveman

 

[CUninja]

I have been hearing about how bad the job market is for pharmacists, especially new grads. Is the military the same way or is there some demand? I am really looking at the Navy but could be convinced otherwise. Thanks in advance!

Depends on the year and the service. I speak for my own experience in the Air Force only...we are somewhat well insulated from the job market at large. Things that affect our manning more are personnel policies (how often you move, how often you deploy, the toughness of promotion to Lt Col, assignment location) and poor leadership in some areas (poor flight/squadron/group commanders).

In our service, pharmacists compete against other healthcare officers that don't have their own "Corps." Physicians, nurses, administrators and dentists all have their own corps. Promotion opportunities for Physicians and Dentists are nearly unlimited (they are not limited by DOPMA.)
Administrators have their own corps and promote fairly well (65-70% to O5 depending on year.) Nurses are a little less well off, with promotion to O5 usually in the 55-60% range. Everyone else, called BSCs (to include pharmacists) have the lowest promotion rate as a Corps in the entire Air Force. Last year, that promotion rate (in the zone) was around 40%. It historically has been a tick higher than that.

My unscientific view is that pharmacists perform average to slightly below average promoting to Lt Col when compared to the average BSC.

If you don't promote to O5, your chances of retiring as a BSC without prior military experience is a coin flip.

That being said, I know there were a fair number of positions for pharmacists in our service to start their service this summer.

 

[Sir Rx 23]

Depends on the year and the service. I speak for my own experience in the Air Force only...we are somewhat well insulated from the job market at large. Things that affect our manning more are personnel policies (how often you move, how often you deploy, the toughness of promotion to Lt Col, assignment location) and poor leadership in some areas (poor flight/squadron/group commanders).

In our service, pharmacists compete against other healthcare officers that don't have their own "Corps." Physicians, nurses, administrators and dentists all have their own corps. Promotion opportunities for Physicians and Dentists are nearly unlimited (they are not limited by DOPMA.)
Administrators have their own corps and promote fairly well (65-70% to O5 depending on year.) Nurses are a little less well off, with promotion to O5 usually in the 55-60% range. Everyone else, called BSCs (to include pharmacists) have the lowest promotion rate as a Corps in the entire Air Force. Last year, that promotion rate (in the zone) was around 40%. It historically has been a tick higher than that.

My unscientific view is that pharmacists perform average to slightly below average promoting to Lt Col when compared to the average BSC.

If you don't promote to O5, your chances of retiring as a BSC without prior military experience is a coin flip.

That being said, I know there were a fair number of positions for pharmacists in our service to start their service this summer.

The way I have understood things is that a licensed pharmacist with a Pharm. D. would start as an O3. I have also heard that it takes 20 years of service to qualify for retirement. So, are you saying a pharmacist may not even move up 2 ranks to O5 in a 20 year career?!?!

 

[BC_89]

The way I have understood things is that a licensed pharmacist with a Pharm. D. would start as an O3. I have also heard that it takes 20 years of service to qualify for retirement. So, are you saying a pharmacist may not even move up 2 ranks to O5 in a 20 year career?!?!

Very possible to not even make O-4 of which you go to the “house” before you can ever collect a pension. Matter of fact my OIC (officer in charge) who’s a pharmacist (army) has been coming in close to make his cut for O-4 (which he’ll get). Other factors include your physical fitness level and what sets you apart as far as skills tabs (google air assault, airborne, pathfinder, and EFMB requirements), marksmanship qual’s and what-not.

Your hours will never be just a 40 hour week, but you also will never deal with cash registers or insurance cards. Army is competitive for the slot, but research and see if its for you...try to do it for more than just because of job saturation...(or at least with all the facts on the table). Def a good deal of a career if you play your cards accordingly.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Anyone know likely it would be to work as a pharmacy at an overseas base as a civilian?

 

[BC_89]

Anyone know likely it would be to work as a pharmacy at an overseas base as a civilian?

If your a pharmacist contractor very likely. GS worker never (unless you specifically choose to allocate yourself overseas permanently). Contractors have competitive salary (maybe a little less) as any other outside pharmacist. GS workers get paid much less but also comes with a pension and benefits package.

 

[Doc_Ock]

If your a pharmacist contractor very likely. GS worker never (unless you specifically choose to allocate yourself overseas permanently). Contractors have competitive salary (maybe a little less) as any other outside pharmacist. GS workers get paid much less but also comes with a pension and benefits package.

Sorry, GS? Still educating myself on jargon.

 

[BC_89]

Sorry, GS? Still educating myself on jargon.

GS is a “general schedule” pay scale used to quantify a government workers salary. You work as a civilian on behalf of the military ( ie finances, HR, healthcare, etc). Since it is a gov. Job, you use the TSP plan which is similar to a 401k....when you wrk 20 yrs as one you collect on a pension similar to that of policemen, firemen, and military (gov jobs..)

The higher of a GS worker you are (GS-7 vs GS-12) the higher the salary.

 

[Doc_Ock]

GS is a “general schedule” pay scale used to quantify a government workers salary. You work as a civilian on behalf of the military ( ie finances, HR, healthcare, etc). Since it is a gov. Job, you use the TSP plan which is similar to a 401k....when you wrk 20 yrs as one you collect on a pension similar to that of policemen, firemen, and military (gov jobs..)

The higher of a GS worker you are (GS-7 vs GS-12) the higher the salary.

Wait, so is there a difference between GS and contractor? Is GS kinda like somewhere in between and contractor is totally civilian?

 

[BC_89]

Wait, so is there a difference between GS and contractor? Is GS kinda like somewhere in between and contractor is totally civilian?

Both are civilian jobs. A contractor will not just work on one base at one clinic (take a pharmacist for example). They will cover multiple clinics / The VA hospital on base (if there is one) or just one clinic...however, they could be told to move to another base overseas and work there for a few years then move again and again and so forth. Contractors get paid more than GS workers and the contractor company pays for your moving expenses.

A GS worker will only work at one location and one clinic / VA hospital...they will never move unless they “quit” and go someplace else. GS workers typically have a lower salary, but they get a pension after 20 yrs of wrk and a benefit package..If given a choice, most try to become a GS worker for long term financial reasons

 

[Doc_Ock]

Both are civilian jobs. A contractor will not just work on one base at one clinic (take a pharmacist for example). They will cover multiple clinics / The VA hospital on base (if there is one) or just one clinic...however, they could be told to move to another base overseas and work there for a few years then move again and again and so forth. Contractors get paid more than GS workers and the government pays for your moving expenses.

A GS worker will only work at one location and one clinic / VA hospital...they will never move unless they “quit” and go someplace else. GS workers typically have a lower salary, but they get a pension after 20 yrs of wrk and a benefit package..If given a choice, most try to become a GS worker for long term financial reasons

do you know if there happens to be more options in different branches (AF, Navy)? Was specifically thinking Japan or Korea, I think AF has the biggest military hospital in Korea and Navy has the biggest in Japan.

 

[BC_89]

do you know if there happens to be more options in different branches (AF, Navy)? Was specifically thinking Japan or Korea, I think AF has the biggest military hospital in Korea and Navy has the biggest in Japan.

I’m not sure what you mean by options (literally the world is your oyster seeing all branches are scattered to one extent or another overseas....plenty of opportunity). If it’s one specific region overseas your interested in research the applications on usamilitary jobs and verify how the screening process works. Talk with specific healthcare admin of each branch to get your foot in the door.

 

[Helpful Troll]

do you know if there happens to be more options in different branches (AF, Navy)? Was specifically thinking Japan or Korea, I think AF has the biggest military hospital in Korea and Navy has the biggest in Japan.

@Perrotfish already answered this in another thread...Practicing at an overseas base. Your pharmacist spouse is unlikely to find employment OConus co-located with your military assignment. The example provided was Navy - "There are a LOT of Navy docs who ended up requesting Lemoore, twentynine palms, and Yuma (really crappy rural US bases) because their spouses couldn't possibly work in the much nicer Japanese commands." The same is true for Army and AF. For a spouse to be employed as a pharmacist you are pretty much limited to US assignments. None of the services take a civilian spouses profession or employment into consideration for assignments and they could surprise you with Korea but your spouse would likely be unemployed.

 

[Doc_Ock]

@Perrotfish already answered this in another thread...Practicing at an overseas base. Your pharmacist spouse is unlikely to find employment OConus co-located with your military assignment. The example provided was Navy - "There are a LOT of Navy docs who ended up requesting Lemoore, twentynine palms, and Yuma (really crappy rural US bases) because their spouses couldn't possibly work in the much nicer Japanese commands." The same is true for Army and AF. For a spouse to be employed as a pharmacist you are pretty much limited to US assignments. None of the services take a civilian spouses profession or employment into consideration for assignments and they could surprise you with Korea but your spouse would likely be unemployed.

He did in fact answer but gave a completely different answer. Why is asking more than one person a bad thing?

 

[Perrotfish]

the

Wait, so is there a difference between GS and contractor? Is GS kinda like somewhere in between and contractor is totally civilian?

They are both civilians. A civilian is anyone who is not in the military.

A GS worker is a civilian who works for the government directly: government benefits, government holidays, impossible to fire, relatively poor pay, and a pension at 30 years.

A contractor is a civilian who has a contract to provide a service for the hospital, or who works for a company that does. Since they are an employee of the contracting company rather than the government they are very easy to fire, they are not working towards a pension, and they are usually better paid to compensate for that lack of security.

 

[Helpful Troll]

He did in fact answer but gave a completely different answer. Why is asking more than one person a bad thing?

Asking more than one person is great if you include the limiting constraints - The answer provided would have been different if you had included the information/limitations of 'Pharmacist jobs for spouse of military servicemember'. There may be openings but not likely with the timing and location you require.

Anyone know likely it would be to work as a pharmacy at an overseas base as a civilian?

Not likely but possible if you are not particular as to overseas location. Significantly less likely at a specific base for a specific time period.

Take a look at USA Jobs with Keyword: Pharmacist and Location: South Korea; Japan or Overseas Jobs | Federal Overseas Jobs This is just a snapshot as to current openings.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Asking more than one person is great if you include the limiting constraints - The answer provided would have been different if you had included the information/limitations of 'Pharmacist jobs for spouse of military servicemember'. There may be openings but not likely with the timing and location you require.

Not likely but possible if you are not particular as to overseas location. Significantly less likely at a specific base for a specific time period.

Take a look at USA Jobs with Keyword: Pharmacist and Location: South Korea; Japan or Overseas Jobs | Federal Overseas Jobs This is just a snapshot as to current openings.

I don't see that search option, unless you meant for me to go to branch-specific websites there like USAJOBS - The Federal Government’s Official Jobs Site

 

[BC_89]

Asking more than one person is great if you include the limiting constraints - The answer provided would have been different if you had included the information/limitations of 'Pharmacist jobs for spouse of military servicemember'. There may be openings but not likely with the timing and location you require.

....Yep.....that information would’ve changed the outcome of my response....drastically

 

[Doc_Ock]

....Yep.....that information would’ve changed the outcome of my response....drastically

So what is it now?

 

[BC_89]

So what is it now?

Since the light has been shed that you are or will be the service member and it’s indeed your spouse who’s the pharmacist ( depending when or if you get your orders overseas ) you are limited to the point that some people would even call it ‘out-of-luck’ for your spouse. When you PCS overseas to a specific base (OCONUS) the individual is limited to just that base. The needs of the military don’t care about the needs of your spouse in terms of your duty station. Roll of the dice on timing for openings vs your report date. Only thing you can do is have spouse work state-side while your gone (unlikely) or google USA federal jobs overseas and hope the timing sequence of your departure is timed perfectly with a fed job opening for the spouse....

This is all branches...so....if your looking to join, that’s your restraint every single time you PCS...if your in...well....recruiter got you good if he/she told you otherwise.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Since the light has been shed that you are or will be the service member and it’s indeed your spouse who’s the pharmacist ( depending when or if you get your orders overseas ) you are limited to the point that some people would even call it ‘out-of-luck’ for your spouse. When you PCS overseas to a specific base (OCONUS) the individual is limited to just that base. The needs of the military don’t care about the needs of your spouse in terms of your duty station. Roll of the dice on timing for openings vs your report date. Only thing you can do is have spouse work state-side while your gone (unlikely) or google USA federal jobs overseas and hope the timing sequence of your departure is timed perfectly with a fed job opening for the spouse....

This is all branches...so....if your looking to join, that’s your restraint every single time you PCS...if your in...well....recruiter got you good if he/she told you otherwise.

Not in yet. If I was state-side SO could find a civilian job pretty much anywhere near me. Just trying to gather as much info as possible.

 

[BC_89]

Not in yet. If I was state-side SO could find a civilian job pretty much anywhere near me. Just trying to gather as much info as possible.

Not necessarily. Again needs of military not spouse. I’d say chances are better but that depends on timing and location. You’ll have to look at what’s available (usamilitary fed jobs will be your go to search). Just so happens where I’m stationed they’re hurtin’ for pharmacists but a federal freeze took place earlier this year so things like that you need to consider as well.

 

[BC_89]

Not in yet. If I was state-side SO could find a civilian job pretty much anywhere near me. Just trying to gather as much info as possible.

I looked through your past posts and once again I’m not getting the full picture....so turns out your interested in hpsp and plan on getting married to g/f who’s a pharmacist with a specialty? The INFO I have given you once again is magnified in the direction to the point that I do not think you understand what you are getting yourself into...in your situation, you really do not know what you want in terms of sub-specialty or how the residency process works for the branches...realize it is the branches discretion to even allow you to do a civilian residency and in no way is your soon-to-be wife going to use her oncology specialty wherever you go...it’s retail assuming it’s even available.

With your said background I strongly encourage you to stay away from the dotted line...it’s great to ask questions on here and you have recieved direct responses, but given your circumstance you will have heartache and disappointment (if you do not see that now wait til your married and put yourself in your SO’s shoes: would you be willing to place your hard earned career on hold)?

Go to school and compete for your residency when you know what you want...in the long run you will financially be better off....if you want the military, you want service and nothing wrong with that..but understand you’ll be under the BRS pension plan if you hit 20 (do not do redux it’s a scam) with 40% of your base pay...again it’s service to country.

Past posts have given you all the tools necessary to have an informed decision. Look for stickied discussions on this topic that I think will be of value to you.

Tl;dr : to get a right answer you need to give the right background info. Stay away from dotted line at this time. Talk with SO and compete in school for civ residency. let SO and your soon-to-be income pay your loans.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Not necessarily. Again needs of military not spouse. I’d say chances are better but that depends on timing and location. You’ll have to look at what’s available (usamilitary fed jobs will be your go to search). Just so happens where I’m stationed they’re hurtin’ for pharmacists but a federal freeze took place earlier this year so things like that you need to consider as well.

No I meant completely civilian, no affiliation with military at all, just geographical proximity.

 

[Doc_Ock]

I looked through your past posts and once again I’m not getting the full picture....so turns out your interested in hpsp and plan on getting married to g/f who’s a pharmacist with a specialty? The INFO I have given you once again is magnified in the direction to the point that I do not think you understand what you are getting yourself into...in your situation, you really do not know what you want in terms of sub-specialty or how the residency process works for the branches...realize it is the branches discretion to even allow you to do a civilian residency and in no way is your soon-to-be wife going to use her oncology specialty wherever you go...it’s retail assuming it’s even available.

With your said background I strongly encourage you to stay away from the dotted line...it’s great to ask questions on here and you have recieved direct responses, but given your circumstance you will have heartache and disappointment (if you do not see that now wait til your married and put yourself in your SO’s shoes: would you be willing to place your hard earned career on hold)?

Go to school and compete for your residency when you know what you want...in the long run you will financially be better off....if you want the military, you want service and nothing wrong with that..but understand you’ll be under the BRS pension plan if you hit 20 (do not do redux it’s a scam) with 40% of your base pay...again it’s service to country.

Past posts have given you all the tools necessary to have an informed decision. Look for stickied discussions on this topic that I think will be of value to you.

Tl;dr : to get a right answer you need to give the right background info. Stay away from dotted line at this time. Talk with SO and compete in school for civ residency. let SO and your soon-to-be income pay your loans.

Me my SO have discussed this extensively, just like me she's not settled on a residency either. But if she has to work as a regular pharmacist for a while it's fine.

 

[BC_89]

Me my SO have discussed this extensively, just like me she's not settled on a residency either. But if she has to work as a regular pharmacist for a while it's fine.

Even as a retail pharmacist they may go long periods without work (months to 1-2 years or worse). That risk is on you both. Your rolling the dice on this and I’m just not understanding why.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Even as a retail pharmacist they may go long periods without work (months to 1-2 years or worse). That risk is on you both. Your rolling the dice on this and I’m just not understanding why.

As a civilian living in the states working for a private company?


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[BC_89]

As a civilian living in the states working for a private company?


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Yep. Happening here where I’m at. Especially if they find out it’s not permanent either.

 

[Doc_Ock]

Yep. Happening here where I’m at. Especially if they find out it’s not permanent either.

No offense but that’s where you’re at. Markets vary by area, not to mention she’s top of her class and up on the job market. I’m not worried about her finding a job here unless it’s one of the really crappy bases without much of a town. Not saying she’ll find her dream job but she’ll find something.


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[BC_89]

No offense but that’s where you’re at. Markets vary by area, not to mention she’s top of her class and up on the job market. I’m not worried about her finding a job here unless it’s one of the really crappy bases without much of a town. Not saying she’ll find her dream job but she’ll find something.

That’s what you need to understand. Saturation of the job plus constant moving. Who will higher knowing they will leave at the drop of an order? I wrk with pharmacists / physicians on a daily basis and at all the bases I’ve been at; this is one of a couple of factors they get out. Spouses won’t get hired at cvs / wags / independent chains. This is coming from Navy , AF , and army....I’m at a joint base and to succeed you have to keep an open mind.

What do you call a person that graduated at the top of there class vs a student at the bottom of there class? A pharmacist. That’s all they will see in retail. Again I’m not being biased, just facts of what is happening. It can be done but realize your still rolling the dice

 

[BC_89]

No offense but that’s where you’re at. Markets vary by area, not to mention she’s top of her class and up on the job market. I’m not worried about her finding a job here unless it’s one of the really crappy bases without much of a town. Not saying she’ll find her dream job but she’ll find something.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No offense but that’s where you’re at. Markets vary by area, not to mention she’s top of her class and up on the job market. I’m not worried about her finding a job here unless it’s one of the really crappy bases without much of a town. Not saying she’ll find her dream job but she’ll find something.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No offense but that’s where you’re at. Markets vary by area, not to mention she’s top of her class and up on the job market. I’m not worried about her finding a job here unless it’s one of the really crappy bases without much of a town. Not saying she’ll find her dream job but she’ll find something.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That’s what you need to understand. Saturation of the job plus constant moving. Who will higher knowing they will leave at the drop of an order? I wrk with pharmacists / physicians on a daily basis and at all the bases I’ve been at; this is one of a couple of factors they get out. Spouses won’t get hired at cvs / wags / independent chains. This is coming from Navy , AF , and army....I’m at a joint base and to succeed you have to keep an open mind.

What do you call a person that graduated at the top of there class vs a student at the bottom of there class? A pharmacist. That’s all they will see in retail. Again I’m not being biased, just facts of what is happening. Take it for what it’s worth

 

[Doc_Ock]

It's a calculated risk, I certainly understand that. Point about top of her class (plus having an MBA) and some form of residency yet-to-be-decided just means she would be a highly competitive applicant and more likely to get a spot than most other applicants. If we were at Pensacola (not saying I want to go there, just throwing out an example), I'm confident that with a large enough population there'd be something. Of course a base job would be the ultimate convenience but I'm definitely not banking on that. As far as highering and orders and stuff, just don't tell the employer. It's what I did knowing grad school was coming up. Maybe its not the most honest thing but if it gets you hired, hey. Sometimes you gotta game the system.

 

[BC_89]

It's a calculated risk, I certainly understand that. Point about top of her class (plus having an MBA) and some form of residency yet-to-be-decided just means she would be a highly competitive applicant and more likely to get a spot than most other applicants. If we were at Pensacola (not saying I want to go there, just throwing out an example), I'm confident that with a large enough population there'd be something. Of course a base job would be the ultimate convenience but I'm definitely not banking on that. As far as highering and orders and stuff, just don't tell the employer. It's what I did knowing grad school was coming up. Maybe its not the most honest thing but if it gets you hired, hey. Sometimes you gotta game the system.

....(sigh)

Retail : class rank won’t matter and you’ll see why in a few years (please look in pharmacy forum ... your making huge assumptions that can be troublesome)

Not telling employer : close to a military base, of which many are vets / family friends / he-knows-she community.....really??

Of the which, can you explain the constant short employment history she will have and constant moving? I’m just informing you what is happening in the present around the states....everywhere....yes there’s a job somewhere, and also not...be prepared for the not.

Please assess a plan B if you choose to sign the dotted line. Go in with worse case scenarios and prep for it..I hope it all goes in your favor more times than not.

 

[Perrotfish]

No offense but that’s where you’re at. Markets vary by area, not to mention she’s top of her class and up on the job market. I’m not worried about her finding a job here unless it’s one of the really crappy bases without much of a town. Not saying she’ll find her dream job but she’ll find something.


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Just to be clear it WILL be a really crappy base without much of a town. Orders near good places to live are for physicians who are past their initial obligation. For your first (and likely second) set of orders you will get either a small island, a small town in the middle of a swamp, or a small town in the middle of a desert. If you are on extremely good terms with the detailer you will get your choice of the three