Military Radiology

[nabeel76]

Hello I have been thinking long and hard about military medicine and have several questions before I commit to it. After reading the posts on this site my primary concerns are now in regards to residency matching and which branch I should pursue. I am planing on pursuing a residency in Diagnostic Radiology and would like to get some opinions on what the best route for me would be.

First, which branch would give me the best chance of obtaining a residency in radiology? I have heard the Army has the most slots, but am not sure if this is true or not?

Is there any pro's/con's with the particular branches in terms of radiology? I am not too concerned about location just as long as I can obtain a Rads residency.

Also, how are military trained doctors percieved in the civilian world after their commitment is up? Specifically, would they be just as competetive as non-military doctors for civilian jobs in Radiology?

Thanks, any advice would be appreciated.

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[Heeed!]

Are you already committed to the military? Have you signed anything yet? If not, I would recommend you continue thinking about your decision and talk to people who didn't match and are doing a GMO tour. If you can deal with the "worst case scenario," then go for it. If you only want radiology, and can't see yourself doing anything else, you have a pretty good chance of being disappointed (at least in the AF). Very competitive, not many spots, etc, etc. I'm not saying you couldn't do it, but know what you're getting into before you sign on the dotted line. There's no way to guarantee what specialty you'll get, so if you're going to join the military anyway, pick the service you would be most happy in as a GMO. That way, if things don't work out, you can still get through each day without stabbing yourself in the eye with a sharp #2 pencil.

As you indicated, your goal is to get a Rads residency. You'll find you have infinitely more freedom as a civilian than as a military member. My opinion is you will have a much better chance of matching as a civilian than trying to snag one of the few AF slots. Get your training as a civilian and if you still want to serve, the military will welcome you with open arms, but then you can do it on your terms much more so than as a 4th year med student.

 

[BomberDoc]

Get your training as a civilian and if you still want to serve, the military will welcome you with open arms, but then you can do it on your terms much more so than as a 4th year med student.

True, but seriously if you were a radiologist just finishing residency, you could do a lot better than the military. Take a look at http://www.radworking.com/jobs/radiology-jobs.html
versus being a captain getting ready to put on major with a whopping 36k yearly specialty bonus. You can make 36k in a few weeks in most civilian rads jobs... unless you insist on living in Manhattan or San Francisco. Of course if you are in the military, you will have ZERO choice of where you live, for how long and how often you are away from your family, and other things you should read on this board.

 

[colbgw02]

You've asked several good questions, but they're really just variations on a theme that we see continually in this forum. So, I'll try to confine my post to only answering your questions. Suffice it to say that you need not take this decision lightly.

The Army definitely gives you the best chance to match and thus finish your training without interruption. As discussed on other threads, on average, matching into radiology is probably easier in the Army than in the civilian match, but year-to-year variations in the match make predicting anything extraordinarily difficult.

Having had military training will not make you less competitive for civilian jobs, perhaps with the exception of academic medicine. I think you'll find this true about most civilian practices - they don't really care about your credentials. They care about you being a good business partner and carrying your share of the workload. If it makes any difference at all, I would say that it makes you more competitive.

 

[dEviantrAdiologist]

I am planing on pursuing a residency in Diagnostic Radiology and would like to get some opinions on what the best route for me would be.

Do not start with HPSP. If you want to serve in the military, do medical school on your own and enter the civilian match. If/when you match to radiology, then you can sign up for FAP (Financial assistance program). You get a little extra money during residency but choose where you train (at least until you want to do a fellowship).

I give the above advice for many reasons. Firstly most people change their minds about what type of doctors they want to be during medical school--not saying you will but it can happen. Say for instance you decided to do plastics instead, then you would be in for a difficult journey trying to do it in the military if you were committed to HPSP already. Secondly, if this matters to you, doing military radiology will be the most financially disastrous decision you could make versus going civilian (in the current civilian climate). I started to calculate how much money I am losing doing military HPSP vs. civilian and had to stop--it was too depressing. Thirdly, even though you will get good training in all branches of the military if you do a military residency, the route to get there is uncertain. You may have to do 1-3 years GMO which for radiology would be pretty much wasted time, unless you have a particular interest in say for instance flight or dive medicine.

There are many unique features of military medicine that civilian medicine doesn't offer... most of them are undesirable however when it comes to getting the training you want. We need good physicians to serve the troops but there are different ways to go about it without limiting/delaying your education.

here are some bulleted points for the different options for military financial assistance.. I don't know if they are all inclusive but it will get you started ( http://www.mods.army.mil/medicaleducation/ ).

 

[nabeel76]

You've asked several good questions, but they're really just variations on a theme that we see continually in this forum. So, I'll try to confine my post to only answering your questions. Suffice it to say that you need not take this decision lightly.

The Army definitely gives you the best chance to match and thus finish your training without interruption. As discussed on other threads, on average, matching into radiology is probably easier in the Army than in the civilian match, but year-to-year variations in the match make predicting anything extraordinarily difficult.

Having had military training will not make you less competitive for civilian jobs, perhaps with the exception of academic medicine. I think you'll find this true about most civilian practices - they don't really care about your credentials. They care about you being a good business partner and carrying your share of the workload. If it makes any difference at all, I would say that it makes you more competitive.

Thanks for the great advice, but I have one question to ask you. Why would it make you less competetive for academic medicine? I wouldn't mind teaching later on in life.

 

[nabeel76]

Do not start with HPSP. If you want to serve in the military, do medical school on your own and enter the civilian match. If/when you match to radiology, then you can sign up for FAP (Financial assistance program). You get a little extra money during residency but choose where you train (at least until you want to do a fellowship).

I give the above advice for many reasons. Firstly most people change their minds about what type of doctors they want to be during medical school--not saying you will but it can happen. Say for instance you decided to do plastics instead, then you would be in for a difficult journey trying to do it in the military if you were committed to HPSP already. Secondly, if this matters to you, doing military radiology will be the most financially disastrous decision you could make versus going civilian (in the current civilian climate). I started to calculate how much money I am losing doing military HPSP vs. civilian and had to stop--it was too depressing. Thirdly, even though you will get good training in all branches of the military if you do a military residency, the route to get there is uncertain. You may have to do 1-3 years GMO which for radiology would be pretty much wasted time, unless you have a particular interest in say for instance flight or dive medicine.

There are many unique features of military medicine that civilian medicine doesn't offer... most of them are undesirable however when it comes to getting the training you want. We need good physicians to serve the troops but there are different ways to go about it without limiting/delaying your education.

here are some bulleted points for the different options for military financial assistance.. I don't know if they are all inclusive but it will get you started ( http://www.mods.army.mil/medicaleducation/ ).

Great link, thanks for the advice!

 

[colbgw02]

Thanks for the great advice, but I have one question to ask you. Why would it make you less competetive for academic medicine? I wouldn't mind teaching later on in life.

Academic medicine, as compared to private practice, cares a lot more about where you've trained, under whom you trained, how much research you've done, etc. Since military programs typically aren't at huge academic research centers, that may put you at a disadvantage vis-a-vis academic radiology. I'm not saying that it's not possibe or even that it's unlikely. I'm just saying that if you're looking to become radiology staff at a major tertiary care academic medical center, then the military route isn't the best course for that. Now, if you're just looking to do a little teaching without much pressure to publish, maybe the Army is right for you. If you stay in Army radiology for long enough, you will end up at one of the residency programs and you will be expected to teach.

 

[nabeel76]

Thanks. I will consider that.

Academic medicine, as compared to private practice, cares a lot more about where you've trained, under whom you trained, how much research you've done, etc. Since military programs typically aren't at huge academic research centers, that may put you at a disadvantage vis-a-vis academic radiology. I'm not saying that it's not possibe or even that it's unlikely. I'm just saying that if you're looking to become radiology staff at a major tertiary care academic medical center, then the military route isn't the best course for that. Now, if you're just looking to do a little teaching without much pressure to publish, maybe the Army is right for you. If you stay in Army radiology for long enough, you will end up at one of the residency programs and you will be expected to teach.

 

[NJEMT1]

One of my classmates (Navy HPSP) just got a civilian deferral for radiology straight from med school. He has no prior service. I'm sure he was an excellent applicant, but it's certainly possible.

 

[Galo]

One of my classmates (Navy HPSP) just got a civilian deferral for radiology straight from med school. He has no prior service. I'm sure he was an excellent applicant, but it's certainly possible.

Certainly its possible. However, its different from year to year, and it may be even more possible to have to defer that training for 1-2 yrs or more if you get tagged as a GMO/FS. People have to realize that there is NO guarantee that they will get to train in what they want when they want when they join HPSP. The likelihood of such a gamble, and the potential for a weak GME experience are two of the major reasons one needs to heavily think if doing military medicine is the right way for them.

 

[fnr]

Military Radiology

Hello I have been thinking long and hard about military medicine and have several questions before I commit to it. After reading the posts on this site my primary concerns are now in regards to residency matching and which branch I should pursue. I am planing on pursuing a residency in Diagnostic Radiology and would like to get some opinions on what the best route for me would be.

First, which branch would give me the best chance of obtaining a residency in radiology? I have heard the Army has the most slots, but am not sure if this is true or not?

Is there any pro's/con's with the particular branches in terms of radiology? I am not too concerned about location just as long as I can obtain a Rads residency.

Also, how are military trained doctors percieved in the civilian world after their commitment is up? Specifically, would they be just as competetive as non-military doctors for civilian jobs in Radiology?

Thanks, any advice would be appreciated.


I am a little late replying but think I have a some information for you....

I am a radiologist, trained in the navy and also taught at a university program for 2 years after
getting off active duty in 2001....

1. If your plans are to get military radiology residency because it is easier to obtain....that will be a big disappointment for you.....It is just as competitive....plenty of USUHUS and HSPS students that have great grades, board scores and AOA to pick from.......

I was involved at both insitutions with picking residents....and the military was hard..... some that would get in at a second tier community civilian program had no chance.... we did offer them out service training and some were successful....

2. no problems with teaching.... there are ex-military docs everywhere.....and since most all civilian resident attend AFIP for six weeks they know about military rads..... I know 3 program chairman that are prior military......

3. During my training 7 of the 10 section chiefs were national known rads with books or book chapters..... all were had been able to do fellowships of their choice since the military paid the cost,,,,,, and that is important .....
call any program and tell them you are completely trained, boarded and will work for free and watch the stampede.

good luck in your pursuit

fnr

 

[fnr]

Military Radiology

Hello I have been thinking long and hard about military medicine and have several questions before I commit to it. After reading the posts on this site my primary concerns are now in regards to residency matching and which branch I should pursue. I am planing on pursuing a residency in Diagnostic Radiology and would like to get some opinions on what the best route for me would be.

First, which branch would give me the best chance of obtaining a residency in radiology? I have heard the Army has the most slots, but am not sure if this is true or not?

Is there any pro's/con's with the particular branches in terms of radiology? I am not too concerned about location just as long as I can obtain a Rads residency.

Also, how are military trained doctors percieved in the civilian world after their commitment is up? Specifically, would they be just as competetive as non-military doctors for civilian jobs in Radiology?

Thanks, any advice would be appreciated.


I am a little late replying but think I have a some information for you....

I am a radiologist, trained in the navy and also taught at a university program for 2 years after
getting off active duty in 2001....

1. If your plans are to get military radiology residency because it is easier to obtain....that will be a big disappointment for you.....It is just as competitive....plenty of USUHUS and HSPS students that have great grades, board scores and AOA to pick from.......

I was involved at both insitutions with picking residents....and the military was hard..... some that would get in at a second tier community civilian program had no chance.... we did offer them out service training and some were successful....

2. no problems with teaching.... there are ex-military docs everywhere.....and since most all civilian resident attend AFIP for six weeks they know about military rads..... I know 3 program chairman that are prior military......

3. During my training 7 of the 10 section chiefs were national known rads with books or book chapters..... all were had been able to do fellowships of their choice since the military paid the cost,,,,,, and that is important .....
call any program and tell them you are completely trained, boarded and will work for free and watch the stampede.

good luck in your pursuit

fnr