Military retirement benefits for physicians

[EMTB2MD]

Does anyone have any idea how the military pension works for docs? Do you take into consideration the special pays VSP, physician pay, etc or is it just based on rank and years of service? Are there any military docs out there getting ready to retire? About how much could one expect yearly from a pension assuming they were retiring this year after 20 years of service?

I understand military physicians get paid less but having a federal pension is a big plus depending on what it is. Assuming docs got a pension of $70K annually one would need to have accumulated 1.2-1.4 million dollars to equal a $70K annual pension.

Thanks

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[Charlie0318]

You can find the answer to all these questions with a little searching

Special pay does NOT factor into your retirement.

After 20 years of service it is your base pay (so rank and years of service) divided by 2.

Instead of 70k a year it is going to be 45-55K depending on rank and if you stop at 20 or go a little extra.

 

[SirGecko]

Retirement benefits for physicians are the same as any other officer in the military. You can of course still save for your retirement on your own. (TSP and such)

 

[Chonal Atresia]

As is the trend in the military, physicians end up getting screwed financially. An O-6 with 20 years makes half his/her base pay in reitrement pension; HOWEVER, military physicians' salaries are almost half "bonuses" which are NOT counted in retirement pension. Therefore, the typical "armor" or "infantry" officer makes half his basic pay but the military physician makes a quarter when you consider these bonuses (which are not bonuses at all when you consider the huge civilian pay gap, but this is entirely another discussion). I suspect that if congress changed the law and included these bonuses in retirement compensation (which has actually been discussed in the past but, of course, has never been acted on) retention rates would be MUCH higher.

 

[SirGecko]

As is the trend in the military, physicians end up getting screwed financially. An O-6 with 20 years makes half his/her base pay in reitrement pension; HOWEVER, military physicians' salaries are almost half "bonuses" which are NOT counted in retirement pension. Therefore, the typical "armor" or "infantry" officer makes half his basic pay but the military physician makes a quarter when you consider these bonuses (which are not bonuses at all when you consider the huge civilian pay gap, but this is entirely another discussion). I suspect that if congress changed the law and included these bonuses in retirement compensation (which has actually been discussed in the past but, of course, has never been acted on) retention rates would be MUCH higher.

Line officers get bonuses as well...

I don't know about the army and air force but Navy aviators get flight pay, sub guys get sub pay and even surface guys get a swo bonus at some point. I see what you are trying to say about the bonuses but it isn't like this doesn't affect line officers as well.

 

[colbgw02]

Don't forget that your retirement income is based on the your average pay for the three years immediately prior to your retirement. So, if you get promoted to O6 after 18 years, you'd have to stay for 21 years in order to get the pension based completely off of that rank.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Line officers get bonuses as well...

I don't know about the army and air force but Navy aviators get flight pay, sub guys get sub pay and even surface guys get a swo bonus at some point. I see what you are trying to say about the bonuses but it isn't like this doesn't affect line officers as well.

Let's see, flight pay is $125-$840 per month. Dive pay is $240/month. Submarine pay is $230-835. Sea pay is $100-$535.

VSP is $500-1000/month
BCP is $208/month
ASP is $15K per year
ISP is $20-36K/year
MSP could be in the $40-50K/year range

Yea, they're about the same.

 

[NAVY DDS 2010]

Let's see, flight pay is $125-$840 per month. Dive pay is $240/month. Submarine pay is $230-835. Sea pay is $100-$535.

VSP is $500-1000/month
BCP is $208/month
ASP is $15K per year
ISP is $20-36K/year
MSP could be in the $40-50K/year range

Yea, they're about the same.

Doc,

Although they don't receive as much as physicians, your facts are lacking for the aviation community. I don't know the other branches, but Naval Aviators are eligible for $15-25k yearly bonuses after they pay back their multi-million dollar training obligation.

For the OP, what charlie and sirgecko told you is wrong. It is not 1/2 your base pay at 20 years and it is not the last 3 years of base pay. It is the 3 highest years of base pay. For you, physcians, unless you get demoted, it will be the last 3 years. But it is possible to get a lower base pay for some people during the last 3 years.

Here is a website to go to for a better explanation of retirement pay.

http://www.navytimes.com/careers/retirement/military_retirement_2007hbml/

This link explains other retirement benefits:

http://www.navytimes.com/careers/retirement/

 

[Chonal Atresia]

As per ActiveDutyMD post above, you cannot compare line or flight officer pay to physician's pay. Even though they may get bonuses, they are negligible compared to physician bonuses. Therefore, I think my argument that physicians are relatively "screwed" compared to every other MOS still holds water. I see that you are still in Dental School. I bet your perspective will change once you graduate and start making half (or less) of what your colleagues are bringing home.

 

[EMTB2MD]

Thanks everyone for the explanation of military retirement benefits. From what I read on here the government will have to do something about physician retention. The inclusion of bonuses in the retirement calculation for docs would help retain some people.

 

[SirGecko]

Let's see, flight pay is $125-$840 per month. Dive pay is $240/month. Submarine pay is $230-835. Sea pay is $100-$535.

VSP is $500-1000/month
BCP is $208/month
ASP is $15K per year
ISP is $20-36K/year
MSP could be in the $40-50K/year range

Yea, they're about the same.

Oh I wasn't trying to say they were the same. Just pointing out that no one gets to keep any part of their bonuses. Maybe the way to fix it would be to reclassify the physician pay so that it isn't bonuses and is just part of the salary? I dunno, I'm just an ensign.

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Oh I wasn't trying to say they were the same. Just pointing out that no one gets to keep any part of their bonuses. Maybe the way to fix it would be to reclassify the physician pay so that it isn't bonuses and is just part of the salary? I dunno, I'm just an ensign.

Whatever it takes. Pay is a big reason people leave, much bigger than most people think. I'd put it as #2 on my list.

#1) Not the kind of practice I want-lack of acuity
#2) Pay
#3) Inability to live where I want to live
#4) Crappy facilities/equipment/constantly rotating techs/newbie nurses
#5) Crappy, constantly changing leadership with no clue how to run a hospital and who really don't care about my personal desires/goals/career and sometimes not even the mission
#6) Lack of control over my life-Guess what, docs are control freaks, who knew?
#7) Dumb military crap (CBTs, rape training etc)
#8) Deployment tempo

 

[colbgw02]

Whatever it takes. Pay is a big reason people leave, much bigger than most people think. I'd put it as #2 on my list.

#1) Not the kind of practice I want-lack of acuity
#2) Pay
#3) Inability to live where I want to live
#4) Crappy facilities/equipment/constantly rotating techs/newbie nurses
#5) Crappy, constantly changing leadership with no clue how to run a hospital and who really don't care about my personal desires/goals/career and sometimes not even the mission
#6) Lack of control over my life-Guess what, docs are control freaks, who knew?
#7) Dumb military crap (CBTs, rape training etc)
#8) Deployment tempo

Interesting list. Force-wide, I believe the top three reasons to separate are 1) deployment, 2) AHLTA, and 3) Pay - in that order. I think the movement of AHLTA ahead of pay was a real eye-opener, but that, of course, doesn't mean AHLTA is going anywhere.

 

[IgD]

Interesting list. Force-wide, I believe the top three reasons to separate are 1) deployment, 2) AHLTA, and 3) Pay - in that order. I think the movement of AHLTA ahead of pay was a real eye-opener, but that, of course, doesn't mean AHLTA is going anywhere.

I disagree with #1. The Marine Corps is deploying folks at a blistering tempo yet from what I understand their retention rate is pretty high. I think it is more the b.s. leadership that is driving people out. There is nothing worse then feeling you can't do your job because of b.s. policies and poor leadership.

 

[colbgw02]

I disagree with #1. The Marine Corps is deploying folks at a blistering tempo yet from what I understand their retention rate is pretty high. I think it is more the b.s. leadership that is driving people out. There is nothing worse then feeling you can't do your job because of b.s. policies and poor leadership.

I was referring to physicians. I didn't mention that, but you might have inferred it, since I doubt the average marine cares a bit about AHLTA. In any case, those are the results from the separation surveys.

 

[IgD]

I was referring to physicians. I didn't mention that, but you might have inferred it, since I doubt the average marine cares a bit about AHLTA. In any case, those are the results from the separation surveys.

What I was trying to say was the Marines are deploying as frequently as physicians but are staying in. I think doctors don't necessarily mind the deployments I think it is the b.s. policies and leadership. That being said probably a survey would be more accurate. I was never given a survey when I left

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Interesting list. Force-wide, I believe the top three reasons to separate are 1) deployment, 2) AHLTA, and 3) Pay - in that order. I think the movement of AHLTA ahead of pay was a real eye-opener, but that, of course, doesn't mean AHLTA is going anywhere.

I don't use AHLTA. So it doesn't factor in. Nevertheless, with pay as #3, I think you're making my point for me.

 

[BigNavyPedsGuy]

Whatever it takes. Pay is a big reason people leave, much bigger than most people think. I'd put it as #2 on my list.

#1) Not the kind of practice I want-lack of acuity
#2) Pay
#3) Inability to live where I want to live
#4) Crappy facilities/equipment/constantly rotating techs/newbie nurses
#5) Crappy, constantly changing leadership with no clue how to run a hospital and who really don't care about my personal desires/goals/career and sometimes not even the mission
#6) Lack of control over my life-Guess what, docs are control freaks, who knew?
#7) Dumb military crap (CBTs, rape training etc)
#8) Deployment tempo

It's funny how things vary depending on your specialty. For us pediatrons the pay is kind of a non-issue, sometimes we even do better in the military. My guess would be 6, 3, 1 for me at this point. Obviously, this could be in flux when I'm "out there".

I'm also one of the only guys I know that's contemplating staying around a little longer than the bare minimum