Military Veteran seeking answers...

[v0x]

Greetings SDN!

I am currently deployed in Iraq, and separating from the Air Force in a couple of months. I have been volunteering during my (somewhat rare) free time out here at a number of places - one of which has been an ICU/ICW. I had always thought that I would go to school after the service and major in Computer Science, but to be honest, the thought of sitting in front of a computer screen for the rest of my career making recursive functions and debugging programs gives me an acute feeling of dysphoria.

Needless to say, my volunteer time at the ICU has made me very interested in the medical field. I won't lie - the pay, hours, and flexibility of a pharmacist are extremely attractive and play a large part in my interest. I may not be very altruistic, but I do at least have a keen intrigue in the field. It has taken quite a bit of careful consideration for me to arrive at my decision to become a pharmacist.

I will be separating from the Air Force with two AA degrees - one from the Community College of the Air Force, and one from the Defense Language Institute. I also have 10 separate CLEP/DANTES exams which I have taken and passed, and I hope to apply to a Pharm.D program which accepts at least some of the exams and courses I've taken for credit. They are all non-science related, of course; I simply hestitate to have to take English Composition, Public Speaking, etc over again.

As you may be aware, as a veteran I'm entitled to the benefits of the Post 9/11 GI bill. Unfortunately, this bill only covers 36 straight months of tuition (excluding breaks, so in reality it covers four years of education), and the tuition it covers is dependent on an arcane calculation that the VA decides upon - the highest "in-state" tuition rate in each state. Some states have very high tuition coverage in the GI bill (Texas, $1550 per credit hour) and others have pitiful coverage (Wyoming, $99 per credit hour).

I'm trying to find out what the most economical method would be for me to get a Pharm.D. While institutional prestige used to be important to me when I was considering CompSci, all I am able to see now are dollar signs and debt. My current plan is to move back to California after I separate, live with my parents for a while, and take classes at a local community college (paying out of pocket) to fulfill my prepharmacy requirements and PCAT. After that, I hope to apply to a school which will be fully covered by the GI bill.

Even though I have done many hours of research on this topic, my work is not yet complete. For example, one of the schools I'm looking at - the University of Georgia - would be covered fully by the GI bill if I were able to become an in-state resident. They also accept CLEPs, which is great. But I'm not certain how difficult it would be to obtain state residency to qualify for the lowered tuition - if I paid out-of-state for the entire program, I would go about $70k in debt.

So - to summarize, I'm currently looking for a 2+4 (or 2+3) that would not put me into debt. I am open to the idea of a 0+6, of course, but I do think that it would be less economical than a 2+4. If there's anyone who has some insight for my nontraditional situation, I would be ecstatic to hear it. I am still going to be continuing my research as well, so if there are any military veterans out there in a similar situation then I can provide what research I've done.

I've already done a good amount of searching on this forum and found excellent answers to some questions that I've had; SDN has already been a valuable resource to me. Thanks in advance for any help you all might be able to give, and for all the advice you've given in the past. It's left a marked impression on me.

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[v0x]

Come to think about it, I had completely forgotten about the Yellow Ribbon program. Does anyone know if it's possible to go to a 0+6 school and be totally covered by the GI Bill + YR program? Or would my best bet to still pay out of pocket for two years at a Community College and then go to a 4 yr institution with the YR program?

Thanks! (Still researching..)

 

[pharm B]

Honestly, I think it behooves you to save money NOW to pay for your community college tuition when you get out.

Every school is different, so start looking into specific schools when you have a better idea of where you're going to be living. Here, the cost of a 3-credit course at the university is about the same as the cost of taking 12 hours at the community college.

Like you, I had some CLEP and DANTES credit when I got out, and my CC did give me credit for them. I don't believe any of them were pharmacy pre-reqs, though, so you might call your ideal school of pharmacy and ask them about their stance on accepting these forms of credit.

How long do you think you'll need to be in school for the pre-reqs?

I'm assuming you haven't taken Gen Chem and Bio I&II, so that's a year sequence right there, followed by a second year in the form of Organic Chem I&II and Microbiology (or optionally cell bio) & Genetics.

If you already have most of your non-science pre-reqs done, then you're looking at a pretty light courseload for the next two years. I don't know Georgia's residency requirements, but if they can be fulfilled in two years, then you might consider moving to Georgia to attend school and work at least part time to support yourself.

I was in a similar situation only two years ago. I got out of the Navy, and finished all my pre-reqs at my local CC and successfully entered a PharmD program this Fall. So it can be done.

Passion4Sci probably has some good information to share on this topic, as well.

Best of luck!

 

[mandydp6]

Welcome to SDN!
As for me, I decided to use my Post 9/11 GI Bill for all of my pre-pharmacy coursework. I completed most of the coursework at a CC, and some at ASU after I finished my AS. Maybe it wasn't the smartest move economically, but I wanted the housing allowance, so that's why I used it instead of saving it. I will still have essentially 7 months remaining when I start pharmacy school, but I am currently in the process of applying to a scholarship through the Air Force which, if awarded to me, will cover my cost of tuition for all 3 years of school.
Bottom line, I suppose if you have the money to be able to pay for the pre-pharmacy coursework at a CC and save the Post 9/11 for pharmacy school, then that would probably be a very smart move. Like you said, you just need to research different schools and see who participates in Yellow Ribbon.
Good Luck, and you have come to the right place at the right time to seek answers!

 

[bggytc]

I didn't find it useful to wait to use the 9/11 GI Bill. The yellow ribbon program seems to only be for undergrads, I haven't found a professional program that does it. Therefore, you really don't save any money. It might be better to take your science courses from a 4 year anyway, some school care about how rigorous your school/ course load are.

 

[v0x]

Thanks for your responses!

How long do you think you'll need to be in school for the pre-reqs?

I'm assuming you haven't taken Gen Chem and Bio I&II, so that's a year sequence right there, followed by a second year in the form of Organic Chem I&II and Microbiology (or optionally cell bio) & Genetics.

If you already have most of your non-science pre-reqs done, then you're looking at a pretty light courseload for the next two years. I don't know Georgia's residency requirements, but if they can be fulfilled in two years, then you might consider moving to Georgia to attend school and work at least part time to support yourself.

I was in a similar situation only two years ago. I got out of the Navy, and finished all my pre-reqs at my local CC and successfully entered a PharmD program this Fall. So it can be done.

It's looking like it will take two years to complete the pre-reqs. After looking at dozens of schools, it is apparent that I am going to have to take somewhat of a wider breadth of courses than I originally expected, since each school has their own prerequisites. CLEPs do not seem to be widely accepted, either, so I'll likely have to take classes for CLEPs I've taken (which for specific prerequisite purposes is mostly just English Comp I, Psychology, Social Sciences&History, and Public Speaking)

While some schools only require one semester of certain subjects (such as calculus and physics) or don't require them at all, it seems a number of schools require a full two semesters. It's going to be interesting to see how I'll be able to fit Bio I&II, Physics I&II, Chem I&II, O-Chem I&II, Microbio, Calculus I&II, Statistics, English I&II, etc, into those two years. That's not even considering the humanities and other electives, as well as certain subjects that seem bizzarely unique to certain schools. It's mind-boggling.

There is of course the option to apply to only a couple of schools which share similar requirements, but I would hate to end up getting rejected in two years and having no options.

I have evaluated nearly every single Pharm.D-granting school so far for purposes of tuition, prepharmacy requirements (some places require Bachelor's degrees), etc, and here's a list of institutions that appear at least somewhat feasable (you'll notice Georgia didn't make the list, heh):

- Texas A&M
- Texas Tech
- U of Houston
- Drake University
- University of Pittsburgh
- Wilkes University
- South Carolina CoP
- Pacific University
- U of Cincinnati
- U @ Buffalo
- Long Island U
- St John Fisher
- U Michigan
- Ferris State
- U of Arizona
- U of New Mexico
- South University (GA or SC)
- Chicago State U
- D'Youville (if I get rejected from everywhere else )

A long list, I know. But certain programs do seem far more difficult to transfer into (such as Drake, which only admitted one transfer student a couple of years ago) and even with a great GPA and PCAT I might not even get in.

Welcome to SDN!
As for me, I decided to use my Post 9/11 GI Bill for all of my pre-pharmacy coursework. I completed most of the coursework at a CC, and some at ASU after I finished my AS. Maybe it wasn't the smartest move economically, but I wanted the housing allowance, so that's why I used it instead of saving it. I will still have essentially 7 months remaining when I start pharmacy school, but I am currently in the process of applying to a scholarship through the Air Force which, if awarded to me, will cover my cost of tuition for all 3 years of school.
Bottom line, I suppose if you have the money to be able to pay for the pre-pharmacy coursework at a CC and save the Post 9/11 for pharmacy school, then that would probably be a very smart move. Like you said, you just need to research different schools and see who participates in Yellow Ribbon.
Good Luck, and you have come to the right place at the right time to seek answers!

Thanks! I did some calculating and it would appear that getting around 66 credits from my CC would cost $1700, not including books. A lot of universities have tuitions that reach upwards of $40,000 a semester... I think I'll save my GI bill for the final four years!

To that end, I think my plan is going to be to live with my parents for the short term, and perhaps begin working part-time as a pharm-tech. Guess I'll take the PTCB when I get home... it'll look good for pharmacy school, methinks.

Now, to figure out how to cram the most amount of classes in two years that will satisfy the requirements of the greatest number of schools. This might take a while.

I didn't find it useful to wait to use the 9/11 GI Bill. The yellow ribbon program seems to only be for undergrads, I haven't found a professional program that does it. Therefore, you really don't save any money. It might be better to take your science courses from a 4 year anyway, some school care about how rigorous your school/ course load are.

The Yellow Ribbon program is actually sponsored by a number of different schools, to separate degrees. Here is a list of pharmacy schools which offer it:

University / Per Year Total YR Coverage
Auburn University / $99000
Samford University / $99000
University of Arizona / $20000
Harding University / $99000
University of the Pacific / $99000
St Joseph College / $12000
Nova Southeastern / $6000
South University / $99000
Mercer University / $9600
Idaho State University / $16000
Chicago State University / $20000
Roosevelt University / $3000
Butler University / $16000

I would continue, but I've got to head into work now. My point is that there are plenty of schools which will offer either a free ride or at least a decent amount of compensation through the YR program.

 

[v0x]

I don't know if anyone is interested, but I thought I'd post an update.

I applied to UT-Austin a little over a month ago as a computer science major. I believe I have a decent shot of getting in, and if accepted (I should find out within a couple of weeks) I'll petition to change my major and begin pre-pharm at UT. The first four years (assuming I get into the Pharm.D program) are covered under the GI Bill, and the last two years would be relatively cheap (~8k/sem) since I would qualify as an in-state resident by that time.

If I don't get into UT, my plan would be to basically move to Connecticut as soon as I get back from Iraq. I've never been to the east coast, so it would be an interesting experience. If you're thinking "why Connecticut," the state offers free tuition in public universities and colleges for veterans without any requirement to a length of residency (though they do require you to actually have domicile in the state at the time of application). Even without the GI Bill, my education at UConn would be almost completely covered.

So there's my plan. I am quite curious in regards to the specific Air Force scholarship you mentioned, Mandy - could you elaborate on that a bit?

 

[mandydp6]

I don't know if anyone is interested, but I thought I'd post an update.

I applied to UT-Austin a little over a month ago as a computer science major. I believe I have a decent shot of getting in, and if accepted (I should find out within a couple of weeks) I'll petition to change my major and begin pre-pharm at UT. The first four years (assuming I get into the Pharm.D program) are covered under the GI Bill, and the last two years would be relatively cheap (~8k/sem) since I would qualify as an in-state resident by that time.

If I don't get into UT, my plan would be to basically move to Connecticut as soon as I get back from Iraq. I've never been to the east coast, so it would be an interesting experience. If you're thinking "why Connecticut," the state offers free tuition in public universities and colleges for veterans without any requirement to a length of residency (though they do require you to actually have domicile in the state at the time of application). Even without the GI Bill, my education at UConn would be almost completely covered.

So there's my plan. I am quite curious in regards to the specific Air Force scholarship you mentioned, Mandy - could you elaborate on that a bit?

It's called the Health Professions Scholarship Program (HPSP)...highly recommend you look into it, if you would be willing to go back active duty after graduation for 3 years. In a nutshell, they offer either one, two, or three year scholarships while you're in pharmacy school where they pay all tuition and fees, as well as give you a monthly stipend of about $2000. You are considered IRR while in pharmacy school, and upon graduation you would enter the Air Force as a commissioned O-3 - whereupon you would have to give back a 3-year active duty commitment.
I will be attending a 3-year pharmacy school, so basically if I get this scholarship, I would come out of pharmacy school debt free, since all my undergrad has been paid for as well with the GI Bill.
It is not something they hand out like candy, obviously. I think they give out about 20 per fiscal year. I am currently in the process of applying for it right now - just trying to get all my statements, letters of recommendation, etc. together. I am finding the Air Force to be much more stringent on who they will let in when it comes to one's background than any other branch, so it may not work out for me...I was not a perfect teenager/young adult

In addition to the HPSP through the Air Force, the Navy has a scholarship called the Health Services Collegiate Program (HSCP) - where you are considered active duty while in school, and therefore receive all active duty pay and allowances. However, tuition is still up to the student. It would definitely help out a lot, but it is clearly not as comprehensive as the HPSP. A 3-year active duty commitment after graduation is required of this scholarship as well. This will be my second choice if I don't get the HPSP.

Finally, if you aren't able to get any scholarships while in school, I believe each branch (Air Force, Navy, and Army) has their own Loan Repayment Programs. These I don't know much about at this time, because I am hoping to be able to get a scholarship

 

[twinion]

It's called the Health Professions Scholarship Program (HPSP)...highly recommend you look into it, if you would be willing to go back active duty after graduation for 3 years. In a nutshell, they offer either one, two, or three year scholarships while you're in pharmacy school where they pay all tuition and fees, as well as give you a monthly stipend of about $2000. You are considered IRR while in pharmacy school, and upon graduation you would enter the Air Force as a commissioned O-3 - whereupon you would have to give back a 3-year active duty commitment.
I will be attending a 3-year pharmacy school, so basically if I get this scholarship, I would come out of pharmacy school debt free, since all my undergrad has been paid for as well with the GI Bill.
It is not something they hand out like candy, obviously. I think they give out about 20 per fiscal year. I am currently in the process of applying for it right now - just trying to get all my statements, letters of recommendation, etc. together. I am finding the Air Force to be much more stringent on who they will let in when it comes to one's background than any other branch, so it may not work out for me...I was not a perfect teenager/young adult

In addition to the HPSP through the Air Force, the Navy has a scholarship called the Health Services Collegiate Program (HSCP) - where you are considered active duty while in school, and therefore receive all active duty pay and allowances. However, tuition is still up to the student. It would definitely help out a lot, but it is clearly not as comprehensive as the HPSP. A 3-year active duty commitment after graduation is required of this scholarship as well. This will be my second choice if I don't get the HPSP.

Finally, if you aren't able to get any scholarships while in school, I believe each branch (Air Force, Navy, and Army) has their own Loan Repayment Programs. These I don't know much about at this time, because I am hoping to be able to get a scholarship

And don't forget about the Public Health Service. They don't offer as good of a deal on the scholarship end (only have COSTEP) but you're still commissioned as an O-3 and they offer the same pharmacy special pays as the military services. It is worth a look if you're interested in serving your country.

The Air Force is a fine service but remember that the cadre of pharmacists is small so promotions will be a bit more competitive on the high end. Still, the scholarship is great and you get to work knowing that you can do everything for your patients without having to worry about their ability to pay for care.

 

[twinion]

Greetings SDN!

I am currently deployed in Iraq, and separating from the Air Force in a couple of months. I have been volunteering during my (somewhat rare) free time out here at a number of places - one of which has been an ICU/ICW. I had always thought that I would go to school after the service and major in Computer Science, but to be honest, the thought of sitting in front of a computer screen for the rest of my career making recursive functions and debugging programs gives me an acute feeling of dysphoria.

Needless to say, my volunteer time at the ICU has made me very interested in the medical field. I won't lie - the pay, hours, and flexibility of a pharmacist are extremely attractive and play a large part in my interest. I may not be very altruistic, but I do at least have a keen intrigue in the field. It has taken quite a bit of careful consideration for me to arrive at my decision to become a pharmacist.

I will be separating from the Air Force with two AA degrees - one from the Community College of the Air Force, and one from the Defense Language Institute. I also have 10 separate CLEP/DANTES exams which I have taken and passed, and I hope to apply to a Pharm.D program which accepts at least some of the exams and courses I've taken for credit. They are all non-science related, of course; I simply hestitate to have to take English Composition, Public Speaking, etc over again.

As you may be aware, as a veteran I'm entitled to the benefits of the Post 9/11 GI bill. Unfortunately, this bill only covers 36 straight months of tuition (excluding breaks, so in reality it covers four years of education), and the tuition it covers is dependent on an arcane calculation that the VA decides upon - the highest "in-state" tuition rate in each state. Some states have very high tuition coverage in the GI bill (Texas, $1550 per credit hour) and others have pitiful coverage (Wyoming, $99 per credit hour).

I'm trying to find out what the most economical method would be for me to get a Pharm.D. While institutional prestige used to be important to me when I was considering CompSci, all I am able to see now are dollar signs and debt. My current plan is to move back to California after I separate, live with my parents for a while, and take classes at a local community college (paying out of pocket) to fulfill my prepharmacy requirements and PCAT. After that, I hope to apply to a school which will be fully covered by the GI bill.

Even though I have done many hours of research on this topic, my work is not yet complete. For example, one of the schools I'm looking at - the University of Georgia - would be covered fully by the GI bill if I were able to become an in-state resident. They also accept CLEPs, which is great. But I'm not certain how difficult it would be to obtain state residency to qualify for the lowered tuition - if I paid out-of-state for the entire program, I would go about $70k in debt.

So - to summarize, I'm currently looking for a 2+4 (or 2+3) that would not put me into debt. I am open to the idea of a 0+6, of course, but I do think that it would be less economical than a 2+4. If there's anyone who has some insight for my nontraditional situation, I would be ecstatic to hear it. I am still going to be continuing my research as well, so if there are any military veterans out there in a similar situation then I can provide what research I've done.

I've already done a good amount of searching on this forum and found excellent answers to some questions that I've had; SDN has already been a valuable resource to me. Thanks in advance for any help you all might be able to give, and for all the advice you've given in the past. It's left a marked impression on me.

Holy cow, you're in the same situation I was a few years ago. Air Force, DLI (Gotta love the world of the 1N3), regular school (just finished my B.S. in Biochemistry in May), and now aiming for pharmacy school. I won't bore you too much with details but if you'd like to talk about your options or see how I did it, please p.m. me. I'll do everything I can to help.

 

[mandydp6]

And don't forget about the Public Health Service. They don't offer as good of a deal on the scholarship end (only have COSTEP) but you're still commissioned as an O-3 and they offer the same pharmacy special pays as the military services. It is worth a look if you're interested in serving your country.

The Air Force is a fine service but remember that the cadre of pharmacists is small so promotions will be a bit more competitive on the high end. Still, the scholarship is great and you get to work knowing that you can do everything for your patients without having to worry about their ability to pay for care.

Right, but he specifically asked about the HPSP.

 

[ValeRx]

Air Force only pays for PY3 and PY4.

 

[v0x]

Thanks for the scholarship info! I was hoping it wouldn't incur a service obligation, but I suppose that was a naive thought. I honestly do not have plans to re-enter the service - it was a good experience, but one I'm eager to abstain from now.

I'm not sure how I would work the plan to move to Connecticut, exactly... I'm separating in Nebraska, my home of record is in California, and I've never been to Connecticut (nor do I know anyone in the area). I couldn't even give TMO a Connecticut address to ship my things to, since I have to go apartment hunting as soon as I get there. I do suppose that is beyond the scope of this thread, though.

Nice to see another DLI grad, twinion! I painfully regret not studying more back then; I was focused more on my DLPT scores than my GPA (the Air Force didn't care about your GPA as long as you got passing DLPT scores), and it might end up hurting my admissions chances.