MoCA Press Coverage

[cara susanna]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone else had any concerns about all of the press that the MoCA is getting. I just saw a Guardian article that analyzed every single question. I also have seen multiple forms of the MoCA being shared on social media, so using the alternates may not be options either. I am worried about testing and spoiler effects. I know that the MoCA has always been available online, but I doubt anyone was really looking it up like they are now.

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[WisNeuro]

Somewhat concerning, though I do not use it, nor do I put much stock in MoCA scores from outside sources anyway. I've rarely seen it administered correctly by other disciplines.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Unfortunately, it very well could spoil the utility of the test for folks who've become very familiar with it ahead of time. Doesn't hurt to have a few other cognitive screening measures in your back pocket, just in case.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone else had any concerns about all of the press that the MoCA is getting. I just saw a Guardian article that analyzed every single question. I also have seen multiple forms of the MoCA being shared on social media, so using the alternates may not be options either. I am worried about testing and spoiler effects. I know that the MoCA has always been available online, but I doubt anyone was really looking it up like they are now.

I'm not concerned about it corrupting the capacity of the MOCA/MMS/SLUMS at detecting substantial cognitive impairment. People who score a 15 on the MOCA aren't likely going to be influenced much by this press imho, at least in a way to bias the scores. I'm more concerned about the sloppiness of the use 'assessment' and 'intelligence' in all of this. This is something that I've spoken with colleagues quiet a bit about over the last few years, and I think it gives a bad impression about what diagnostic practice is. Lets face it, if a lay person looks it up and goes "what the hell, thats what IQ is - knowing a Rhino? Psychology is a joke", I can't blame them. That it isn't IQ isn't the point, the point is the perception and use.

 

[psych.meout]

Somewhat concerning, though I do not use it, nor do I put much stock in MoCA scores from outside sources anyway. I've rarely seen it administered correctly by other disciplines.

Well, that and there's no way that any political party would allow their sitting politicians to do any testing that they weren't already 100% sure they would pass. Regardless of whether they do this by limiting the scope of the testing, who is doing the testing, etc., they aren't going to risk the huge scandal and political crisis that would come from giving their rivals even the thinnest evidence of doubts in their cognitive abilities.

This is all political theater.

I'm not concerned about it corrupting the capacity of the MOCA/MMS/SLUMS at detecting substantial cognitive impairment. People who score a 15 on the MOCA aren't likely going to be influenced much by this press imho, at least in a way to bias the scores.

If someone can sufficiently study the MoCA to get a 30, then it's probably unlikely that the test itself would otherwise be sensitive enough to detect their impairment, if any.

I'm more concerned about the sloppiness of the use 'assessment' and 'intelligence' in all of this. This is something that I've spoken with colleagues quiet a bit about over the last few years, and I think it gives a bad impression about what diagnostic practice is. Lets face it, if a lay person looks it up and goes "what the hell, thats what IQ is - knowing a Rhino? Psychology is a joke", I can't blame them. That it isn't IQ isn't the point, the point is the perception and use.

That seems to be a far more pervasive problem than just this particular issue. The lay media misreports the results of peer-reviewed journal publications and information from other areas of psychology, students misunderstand what they've learned in school, and we often don't do a great job of messaging.

 

[conky124]

Donny Trump bragging about getting a good score on naming a giraffe, drawing a cube, and drawing a clock. Would love to get an autographed copy from him lol

 

[WisNeuro]

Hey now, give him some credit, he also had to know the correct day and year.

 

[conky124]

Hey now, give him some credit, he also had to know the correct day and year.

Haha very true. Our dear leader needs our positive praise now more than ever! Good job Donny, you are so smart!

 

[psych.meout]

When he originally did the MoCA, didn't they say it took him like half an hour to complete it? Or am I misremembering it?

 

[SportsNeuroPsych]

Person. Man. Woman. Camera. TV.

 

[SportsNeuroPsych]

Hey now, give him some credit, he also had to know the correct day and year.

You know, because those questions at the end are the "hardest."

I can't.

 

[R. Matey]

When he originally did the MoCA, didn't they say it took him like half an hour to complete it? Or am I misremembering it?

No, he did it very fast and with all the best evaluators using all the best words and tests that money can buy.

 

[Action_Potential]

I just have concerns about the MoCA. Period.

And the president. Period.

 

[WisNeuro]

I just have concerns about the MoCA. Period.

And the president. Period.

For what it is, a screener, it actually does better than a lot of what we have in that category. Problem is, many people interpret it as much more than a screener.

 

[R. Matey]

For what it is, a screener, it actually does better than a lot of what we have in that category. Problem is, many people interpret it as much more than a screener.

I've known psych residents who've treated it as the definitive word on MCI.

 

[WisNeuro]

I've known psych residents who've treated it as the definitive word on MCI.

Well, OT treats it as a comprehensive assessment, so, it could be worse.

 

[ClinicalABA]

No, he did it very fast and with all the best evaluators using all the best words and tests that money can buy.

I pretty consistently get every item correct on the Bayley-III. Vote me in 2020!

 

[Sanman]

Haha very true. Our dear leader needs our positive praise now more than ever! Good job Donny, you are so smart!

When his physician checks his general orientation, do you think they ask him who the current President of the United States is? You know, just to make him feel good.

 

[Justanothergrad]

For what it is, a screener, it actually does better than a lot of what we have in that category. Problem is, many people interpret it as much more than a screener.

One of the arguments I've heard from very influential psychologists (and an argument that I disagree with/dislike strongly) in favor of calling the MOCA and similar instruments an assessment in the way as we describe the WAIS/RBANS/Etc, is that 'screener' is what you use to describe single item inventories like those on massive epidemiological collection projects and that 'assessment is anything else'.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

One of the arguments I've heard from very influential psychologists (and an argument that I disagree with/dislike strongly) in favor of calling the MOCA and similar instruments an assessment in the way as we describe the WAIS/RBANS/Etc, is that 'screener' is what you use to describe single item inventories like those on massive epidemiological collection projects and that 'assessment is anything else'.

How about "cognitive triage instrument." I mean, it technically is an "assessment"...as in a brief assessment of cognitive status.

But yes, once you start breaking it down to performance in individual "domains," you lose me.

 

[MAClinician]

I pretty consistently get every item correct on the Bayley-III. Vote me in 2020!

Only if your platform is Paid Naptime For All

 

[ClinicalABA]

Only if your platform is Paid Naptime For All

And government subsidized bubbles and juice boxes!

 

[futureapppsy2]

And government subsidized bubbles and juice boxes!

Bubbles are pretty much a universal reinforcer for young children, I swear.

 

[psych.meout]

Bubbles are pretty much a universal reinforcer for young children, I swear.

Bubble breaths!!!