Moonlighting in pathology residency

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I'm a third-year student giving serious consideration to path, and I have a coupla questions for some of the Residents reading this forum.

1. What kind of moonlighting opportunities have you folks identified and/or participated in? Do you feel you have enough time to do this?

2. I've talked to lots of Pathologists that have switched into the field from something else for various reasons. Do you know anyone who has switched out of Pathology? And for what reasons?

3. What kind of salaries have you heard for people completing their residiencies. I'm at an institution in the Midwest and I've heard anything from 130 (academic hospitals)-200K for Pathologists going out into private practice in rural areas.

4. Any info about teaching opportunities for Pathologists internationally?

I'd appreciate any insight.
 
1. What kind of moonlighting opportunities have you folks identified and/or participated in? Do you feel you have enough time to do this?

You can moonlight in the gross room for private practice groups if you have any that are interested. Also, in my program you can moonlight for the medical examiners office as the ME on call.



2. I've talked to lots of Pathologists that have switched into the field from something else for various reasons. Do you know anyone who has switched out of Pathology? And for what reasons?

I know of one person considering it. That person says they miss the patient interaction. That person was not totally sure they wanted to do path even before starting a path residency.


3. What kind of salaries have you heard for people completing their residiencies. I'm at an institution in the Midwest and I've heard anything from 130 (academic hospitals)-200K for Pathologists going out into private practice in rural areas.

Those figures are probably ok, maybe a tad high for starting salaries. And, low for private practice after partnership.

4. Any info about teaching opportunities for Pathologists internationally?

Don't have any info on this.
 
hi gp,

i'm curious about being able to moonlight as a resident with the me's office. i know folks that do the grossing for private groups, but it seems odd to have residents doing on call for the me. i would assume that means going to scene's? i can see a resident doing autopsies, but without a forensics fellowship, can you really be helpful in determining injury patterns at the scene? just curious is all. have you heard of other residencies doing this?
thanks
 
Yep, in Virginia to be the ME you only need to have passed step 3 and have your licence. You go to scenes, decide whether a case should be a ME case, fill out death certificates, cremation certificates, perform views, if it is an ME case you arrange transport to the MEs office and the forensic pathologist do the autopsy and residents if there is one there at the time.
 
Just wondering - if so, do they do ER stuff, read slides,.....what do they do?
 
after passing step3, path residents can work for the ME and earn money. in some places, the pay is about $1000 for a weekend call.
 
It depends on the location but in general, there are less moonlighting opportunities for path residents than for other specialties. Often, a moonlighting gig will involve grossing or doing autopsies on the weekends. Other random things are out there depending on where you are.
 
I know a guy who was offered (but declined) an opportunity to moonlight and he hadn't yet passed Step3.

I think opportunities are out there, but you might have to look harder.

-X

Originally posted by gdtrfb
after passing step3, path residents can work for the ME and earn money. in some places, the pay is about $1000 for a weekend call.
Click to expand...
 
This has probably been asked before, but I've been unable to find it; so, I'll ask it again: how difficult is it to moonlight in Pathology? I realize that many institutions do not allow moonlighting; however, according to FREIDA, most of the schools that I have been considering do allow the practice.What about schools that do not allow you to moonlight within the institution, is it possible to moonlight at other hospitals?

I am looking forward to being able to work again ( I worked 40+ hours as an undergrad) and do not anticipate being overwhelmed by the residency workload --though I do know that the 80 hour rule applies to moonlighting hours. Before anyone beats me to the punch, just let me assure you that I AM NOT being greedy, I just want to eat Raman Noodles less often :laugh: !

Any advise/clarification will be appreciated.
Mosche
 
Residents here can make money working for the ME office as investigators (not like CSI on TV, before you all start to get excited). Basically they function as the first contact from when a death is reported to the ME and they work up the case and report to the ME on call so they can decide if they will accept the case and if an autopsy is warranted. Residents here do this for patients who die in the hospital and are reported. Outside cases (like car accidents dead at the scene) involve scene investigators.

Residents can also moonlight as dieners (autopsy assistants) for the medical examiners office.

As far as moonlighting at private practice facilities, grossing things, etc, I don't know of anyone here who does that. I guess it's possible.
 
In Utah, I made $2/specimen to gross in derm specimens at a private practice. I figure I made about $70-80/hour before taxes ($500-600/month). Utah also allows residents to be assistant medical directors over part of the lab for ~$200-1000/month.

I don't think it is greedy to earn more money, as long as your reading and service work don't suffer because of it. Without the money I made moonlighting, I wouldn't have been able to afford to move away for a fellowship.
 
There are lots of moonlighting opportunities at UTSW. A lot of the residents have established relationships with the local practices, most of them involve grossing small biopsies or routine things like placentas. Some have autopsy call where you get paid a flat rate for being on call with additional money paid if you do a case. It does not count as part of the 80 hour work limit as long as the moonlighting is done outside of the institution. Some locum tenens positions are available for senior residents/fellows who have licenses where you can gross and preliminarily sign out cases.
 
What opportunities are there for path residents to make some extra $? Are we limited to path-related work or can we do stuff like carry the code pager for an outpatient clinic, work urgent care, etc?
 
Outpatient centers call 911 for codes. And the attendings/nurses run it until EMS arrives. If attached to a hospital, anesthesia or ED docs may come.
I don't think they would be giving a code pager to someone who hadn't done an internship.
If you moonlighted giving patient care ( I think you'd have to lie to get that nowadays with no internship or license) and something went wrong, it would be indefensible in court. So no one would hire you for patient care (unless your previous life involved patient care).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think path residents are pretty much limited to moonlighting in path. Having said that, I know paths who moonlight in urgent cares or ED's...but were IM, FP , etc. One is on this board.
 
Thanks for the response. When I mentioned carrying a code pager for an outpt clinic, I was thinking about IM residents I know who do this at our institution's outpatient clinics (part of the hospital). I don't know if you need an internship per se or just the Step 3 to be able to do this (I suppose I'll just ask them). I have also heard of path residents doing urgent care, etc., but I didn't realize these people already had some type of residency training in that specialty. Are there any situations where path residents can (legally) do any type of clinical work that is not within the scope of their residency?
 
I knew a path resident (without previous clinical training) who did H&Ps for some government agency. Earned about 50 bucks an hour.
 
What are options within pathology for moonlighting?
 
cytoborg said:
What are options within pathology for moonlighting?
Click to expand...

People here take call for the medical examiner's office as investigators for hospital deaths (pt dies in hospital and is a reportable case, medical/surg resident calls investigator. Investigator looks into it then calls ME who decides whether autopsy is going to be done).

They also can take call as an autopsy diener for the ME. I suppose if you get qualified enough you can do blood bank issues but that would probably require a full license.

Someone here previously posted about grossing specimens for private practice offices but that is probably only in limited areas - there are no such opportunities here.
 
cytoborg said:
What are options within pathology for moonlighting?
Click to expand...

You can do autopsies for a private group, do brain cutting, lecture at a local school (e.g. podiatry)...
 
stormjen said:
You can do autopsies for a private group, do brain cutting, lecture at a local school (e.g. podiatry)...
Click to expand...

Pathology has probably the worst moonlighting abilities of any speciality. Its the nature of the beast.
 
other path opportunities involve doing autopsies--not deiner-ing but doing the autopsy and all the legwork (writing PAD, looking at slides, writing FAD).

research tissue procurement--late night CNS tissue after a neuro patient dies; explanted organs (transplants).

there've gotta be others.
 
LADoc is right, moonlighting in path is not robust. I've been able to do some grossing at a local hospital. Some residents help with forensic cases on the weekend. There are also chances to review stained slides for the histotech school.
 
Doctor B. said:
LADoc is right, moonlighting in path is not robust. I've been able to do some grossing at a local hospital. Some residents help with forensic cases on the weekend. There are also chances to review stained slides for the histotech school.
Click to expand...

I dont have a link, but there was an national news article about a career fair for a Palo Alto elementary school where the speaker suggested stripping/exotic dancing as a very viable career option for young ladies. He was speaking to 8th graders. While I find this morally repugnant, my beef is not with the speaker. He is absolutely right, stripping is the single easiest money making occupation that is legal in the US. Even more so if you are willing to evade taxes, which is ridiculously easy.

Maybe you feel strippers are dirty or immoral, then thats your viewpoint. I dont think I feel any more "clean" then them when Im going through crap filled necrotic bowel or doing a post mortem on a 5-year old. I think its the government's fault for creating the circumstances for this to be thriving to such an incredible degree it is now.

Enough of the rambling, my point is if you are a really good looking (which I am not), your best moonlighting opportunities would involve stripping. I guess even in the right place, a guy could make some money here too.
 
Would stripping count toward the 80-hour workweek? With this fabulous bod, I think I've found my new moneymaking scheme.

I could even start a new TV series! Forensic pathologist by day, male escort by evening. UNTIL...gasp!...one by one, my lovely clients wind up dead! And only I have the key to unlock this gruesome mystery!

Wa ha ha ha! :meanie: Now I just need a name for my new drama.
 
cytoborg said:
Would stripping count toward the 80-hour workweek? With this fabulous bod, I think I've found my new moneymaking scheme.

I could even start a new TV series! Forensic pathologist by day, male escort by evening. UNTIL...gasp!...one by one, my lovely clients wind up dead! And only I have the key to unlock this gruesome mystery!

Wa ha ha ha! :meanie: Now I just need a name for my new drama.
Click to expand...

I think there are male strippers for gay clubs/bachelorette parties. Please post here if you do get a job, I would love to draft a letter to CAP describing how residents are being forced into a manwhore lifestyle due to their poor leadership.
 
Do residents training to be pathologists typically have the opportunity to moonlight?

Thanks.
 
U4iA said:
Do residents training to be pathologists typically have the opportunity to moonlight?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Typically? Not so much. But some places do have the opportunity (UTSW leaps to mind as a program that has established ties to moonlighting).
 
Havarti666 said:
Typically? Not so much. But some places do have the opportunity (UTSW leaps to mind as a program that has established ties to moonlighting).
Click to expand...

MUSC also had some good opportunities. Apparently the private practice path groups in the area often had residents do some grossing, and paid about 2x what they would normally have to pay a PA to do it (I don't recall the exact rate, but some residents made an additional several hundred per month). Also autopsies were a possibility, and paid about $225 each I believe.

Basically, it's something you have to specifically ask about when you interview.
 
I just remembered that UNC residents also have to option to moonlight with the local medical examiner's office. On my interview one of the residents told me that he doesn't much care for the work, but the money was quite addictive.
 
Anybody know of people in path residency who moonlight, how often, and how much the pay is? Just curious, got to pay those student loans off somehow!
 
Ok, so the advanced search is down and I've been curious about moonlighting in pathology. What kinds of things are you residents involved in? What is the pay range like? Is the work easy to get? Do you even have time to do it?

Thanks for being a good source of info everyone.
 
drPLUM said:
Ok, so the advanced search is down and I've been curious about moonlighting in pathology. What kinds of things are you residents involved in? What is the pay range like? Is the work easy to get? Do you even have time to do it?

Thanks for being a good source of info everyone.
Click to expand...
what is moonlighting? what do you mean "residents involved in" and "pay range" 😕 ?
 
drPLUM said:
Ok, so the advanced search is down and I've been curious about moonlighting in pathology. What kinds of things are you residents involved in? What is the pay range like? Is the work easy to get? Do you even have time to do it?

Thanks for being a good source of info everyone.
Click to expand...

I responded to this awhile back, BY FAR the best moonlighting gig for female path residents (or any type of residency) is stripping.
 
I don't personally know of anyone who moonlights. This may be a sampling bias - after all, the people who come to our program do so generally because they want a life outside of medicine 🙂

Back while I was in med school one of the senior residents took psych call. He told me his other options included critical care 😉

Somewhat old thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-57013.html
 
There was another thread while back, more recent, about this. People here work for the ME office investigating hospital deaths that are reported to the ME. Another one fills in on weekends as a diener. At other places I have heard residents can be paid by private practice to gross in specimens but doesn't seem to happen around here.
 
yaah said:
There was another thread while back, more recent, about this. People here work for the ME office investigating hospital deaths that are reported to the ME. Another one fills in on weekends as a diener. At other places I have heard residents can be paid by private practice to gross in specimens but doesn't seem to happen around here.
Click to expand...

This is my first time posting, so hello to everyone! I'm a path resident at Mount Sinai School of Medicine and the way moonlighting works here is that you get paid extra for outside contracted work. As an example, when residents do an autopsy for one of the affiliated institutions (i.e. Jewish Nursing Home) it is not considered part of "in house" work, and the resident gets an additional check for completeing the case. The same applies to other non-routine service work (i.e. cases involving research like the Manhattan HIV Brain Bank). I hope this helps. It definitely helps my pocket.

Oh, I forgot to mention, MSSM used to be a part of CUNY, but switched to NYU a few years ago. Anyway, because of this our faculty teach at MSSM and CUNY's Sophie Davis School of Medicine. The residents get paid big $$$ when they teach the labs.
 
sinaility said:
This is my first time posting, so hello to everyone! I'm a path resident at Mount Sinai School of Medicine and the way moonlighting works here is that you get paid extra for outside contracted work. As an example, when residents do an autopsy for one of the affiliated institutions (i.e. Jewish Nursing Home) it is not considered part of "in house" work, and the resident gets an additional check for completeing the case. The same applies to other non-routine service work (i.e. cases involving research like the Manhattan HIV Brain Bank). I hope this helps. It definitely helps my pocket.
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum!

Insightful post on your part. Thanks
 
sinaility said:
The residents get paid big $$$ when they teach the labs.
Click to expand...
I had not thought of that. Teaching as moonlighting, I mean (or at least, as income).

Here we routinely teach med student labs on CP rotations, without pay.
By third or fourth year you're generally capable enough to teach the 2 or 2 1/2 hour long Path review courses, and that brings money.
 
I've noticed on FREIDA that moonlighting is allowed at some path residencies. I wonder if anyone knows what this is like. What is the work like? Just like anything else a pathologist would do? What is the pay like for a moonlighting path resident? It seems more clear for GPs moonlighting such as IM FP or ER. But a moonlighting pathologist? Anyone have any input here?
 
 
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