Moral Dilemma

[PreMedDocMD]

I have wanted to be a doctor for a long time. But one day, I was searching on the internet, and this cool forum called SDN came up. So I visited, and registered, and started reading these horrible posts of all the problems of medicine, with the long hours, malpractice, lowering reimbursements, and so on. After about 8 months of reading the forum, doubts started to accumulate. I kept reading how you can do other jobs for the same or higher salaries, and so on.

So now, I don't know what to do. My parents were immigrants to the U.S., so I have always dreamed of owning a big house and so on. The money in business fields such as I-Banking is very, VERY tempting. However, I always find myself coming back to thinking that medicine would be much more fulfilling. I would have the chance to help others (cliche, but its true). I think its one of the most important jobs. However, with so many people (thread in General Residency forum) saying that they regret going into the field, I am not sure. How do I know if I will like medicine 20 years from now?

So, those are the thoughts I am having now. Did anyone else have such thoughts? How did you decide?

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[badasshairday]

Here's a link to the thread you are talking about in the Residency forum:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5483057#post5483057

It's a very sobering read for idealistic and excited premeds. It's not what it is all cracked up to be.

 

[ChiDoc27]

I know that i'm only a pre-med, so I don't yet have a very "jaded" view of medicine, but even if my salary hovers around the 100,000 mark or even slightly lower, I will be happy with that. The average income in this country is SUBSTANTIALLY lower than that, and if your husband/wife also makes a reasonable amount, a very comfortable life is very possible even after paying back 200,000-250,000 in loans. If you think that you will enjoy a profession in which you utilize your brains, your training, and your critical thinking skills and in which you have the satisfaction of bettering someone's life, then maybe medicine is for you. My father owns a business and my mother is an accountant, and I know firsthand the toll that a business lifestyle can take on a person. Yes, they didn't have to pay back massive educational loans, but they did and still do have work extremely long hours for a job they hate. I have talked with several physicians that I have shadowed and most of them agree that even if the health care system is changed so that doctors are employed by the government, they will still make substantially more than the average American, and in this case many educational loans will be "forgiven" as was done in Europe with the national health care system. Also, many future docs are concerned with the toll that insurance companies have on a salary, and they have a right to be, but in many states (Florida, Mississippi, Nevada, NY, Ohio, PA, South Dakota, WI) have already began litigation to enact tort reform and limit damages awarded in malpractice suits. There is something wrong with EVERY profession, so I think that you just follow what you believe you would be happiest doing.

Whew...that was quite the little speech there haha.

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/medicalmalpractice.htm <<< here is a good summary of some recent legislation about tort reform.

 

[PreMedDocMD]

Oh, well I don't have to worry about loans. My parents have a small business that they will sell soon, and will have plenty of money to pay for my education. I figure it would be better if they payed for it now (since they could) and I could always pay them back later, without any interest accumulated (although they have said several times that they would not want me to have to pay them back).

So I might be at a small advantage because I won't have loans, but still am not sure.

 

[Arc]

My parents have been able to pay for my education so far, but I and kinda turned off by the fact that you make only $40K until you are 30.

 

[cheezer]

i have a friend who does i-banking. they're 12-14 hour days, most of which involve sitting at your desk either talking on the phone or staring at the computer. sometimes he gets yelled at by his dingus boss. on the other hand, he makes a ton of money and drives a bmw. if this sounds appealing to you, then i suggest you read Liar's Poker for an even bigger hardon

 

[artaxerxes]

i have a friend who does i-banking. they're 12-14 hour days, most of which involve sitting at your desk either talking on the phone or staring at the computer. sometimes he gets yelled at by his dingus boss. on the other hand, he makes a ton of money and drives a bmw. if this sounds appealing to you, then i suggest you read Liar's Poker for an even bigger hardon

a 120K hardon.....make money now, hang out with the bitchs and hoes at 25 while pursuing a leisurely as an MBA

hopefully I'll get into my state school, which will be only 20-30K with cost of living a year, thats 100K of debt tops at the end, which won't be too too bad.

 

[brianmartin]

How do I know if I will like medicine 20 years from now?

You don't. But in 20 years it'll be too late to do anything else, so you're kind of forced to choose before you can really be sure. This is hard for many people including myself. Look at it this way - if you work hard and get through all the pre-reqs, get good grades, get some medical experience, and STILL want to do it...then it's probably a good decision.

The key is getting some exposure to the field. Some people are gung-ho premed until they shadow a doc on a busy day and get scared. These same people will then come on SDN saying they are abandoning medicine because of the insurance issues or declining pay, when the real reason is that medicine is just not for them.

"Insurance" or "declining pay" or "long hours" are not good reasons for avoiding medicine. Any field has it's own special kind of bull****. Medicine needs people who are willing to face the problems with the system and work on making it better. Just look back at the 80's when managed care was getting really big - the insurance companies were making a killing and there was nothing the doctors could do. Today things are WAY better. Even in HMO's, doctors are living great lives. I spoke with some Kaiser docs recently, and every one of them, from surgery to family practice, loves their job situation, pay, benefits, etc. Now is not the time for pessimism!

 

[8744]

...I know that i'm only a pre-med, so I don't yet have a very "jaded" view of medicine, but even if my salary hovers around the 100,000 mark or even slightly lower, I will be happy with that...

Print out your post, put it in an envelope, take it out and read it eight years from now when you are almost done with residency and you will laugh. Trust me, by the time you're done you are going to look at a salary slightly lower than $100,000 as a personal failure. $100,000 seems like a lot now because you probably have never made more than minimum wage.

Additionally, the whole point of working hard and sacrificing (and you will do both) is to see some kind of benefit from it. It is a point beaten to death on SDN but true none-the-less that Joe Blow making the median income doesn't have to slog through eight years or more of grueling post-graduate training. You need to read my blog. I like medicine well enough but in my third year of residency with 20 months to go I can hardly remember a time when I wasn't tired and worn out.

 

[jon stewart]

where can i find more on this ibanking stuff? where is the SDN of ibanking?

 

[Bartelby]

I expect that medical school and practice is going to be really tough in terms of the time comittment, which is one of the scariest things about medicine. I also expect that there will be lots of unforeseen BS that will get old really quick, like excessive paperwork, ungrateful/drug seeking patients, bosses who are jerks, etc. That being said, I'm not so sure that it will be as bad as a lot of the med students/residents in the aforementioned thread made it out to be.

I externed at a residency and got to meet both the disgruntled "OMG I wish I could quit this but I have so much debt and life is so unfair OMG I hate my life" people and the "there is good and bad, but I really like what I do" people, and it seems like more of a function of attitude than working conditions (they were in the same program). Also, think back: how many premeds incessantly whine about how hard the program is, how much they have to work, how professors/grading curves/requirements are unfair? If I had to guess, I would bet that they are the ones who will in four years be complaining about how being a doctor is so hard and life is so unfair, and I bet they would have comparable complaints in most other professions because it seems like that is just their personality.

Maybe I will look back in eight years and be awed at my ignorance, maybe not, but I am not going to let some negative reviews of the experience stop me from becoming a physician.

 

[8744]

I expect that medical school and practice is going to be really tough in terms of the time comittment, which is one of the scariest things about medicine. I also expect that there will be lots of unforeseen BS that will get old really quick, like excessive paperwork, ungrateful/drug seeking patients, bosses who are jerks, etc. That being said, I'm not so sure that it will be as bad as a lot of the med students/residents in the aforementioned thread made it out to be.

I externed at a residency and got to meet both the disgruntled "OMG I wish I could quit this but I have so much debt and life is so unfair OMG I hate my life" people and the "there is good and bad, but I really like what I do" people, and it seems like more of a function of attitude than working conditions (they were in the same program). Also, think back: how many premeds incessantly whine about how hard the program is, how much they have to work, how professors/grading curves/requirements are unfair? If I had to guess, I would bet that they are the ones who will in four years be complaining about how being a doctor is so hard and life is so unfair, and I bet they would have comparable complaints in most other professions because it seems like that is just their personality.

Maybe I will look back in eight years and be awed at my ignorance, maybe not, but I am not going to let some negative reviews of the experience stop me from becoming a physician.

No maybe about it. You will definitely look back and be awed by your ignorance.

On another subject, why is it so hard for people to accept that much of medical training blows on a purely subjective level independent of attitude? I am known for my generally good attitude and cheerful disposition but I am perhaps the biggest critic of residency training you can possibly find on the internet or anywhere. Long hours, low pay, sleep deprivation, and indentured servitude coupled with the tremendous inefficiency of residency training are the reality and there are very few residents, at least in my experience, scampering around the place singinging zippydedoodah.

 

[Arc]

So with the loowrider payand hte hugh effort that you have to put in just to get to residency, woulkd you recomentd doing it?
Just hearing about residency kinda worries me about being a doctor.

 

[masterMood]

zippedy doo daaa zipppedy dayyyy my oh my what a wonderful day

i have that disney video

 

[ADeadLois]

I expect that medical school and practice is going to be really tough in terms of the time comittment, which is one of the scariest things about medicine. I also expect that there will be lots of unforeseen BS that will get old really quick, like excessive paperwork, ungrateful/drug seeking patients, bosses who are jerks, etc. That being said, I'm not so sure that it will be as bad as a lot of the med students/residents in the aforementioned thread made it out to be.

I externed at a residency and got to meet both the disgruntled "OMG I wish I could quit this but I have so much debt and life is so unfair OMG I hate my life" people and the "there is good and bad, but I really like what I do" people, and it seems like more of a function of attitude than working conditions (they were in the same program). Also, think back: how many premeds incessantly whine about how hard the program is, how much they have to work, how professors/grading curves/requirements are unfair? If I had to guess, I would bet that they are the ones who will in four years be complaining about how being a doctor is so hard and life is so unfair, and I bet they would have comparable complaints in most other professions because it seems like that is just their personality.

Maybe I will look back in eight years and be awed at my ignorance, maybe not, but I am not going to let some negative reviews of the experience stop me from becoming a physician.

A doctor I used to work for once told me (paraphrased): "You won't understand what medical school is like until you're there, and you won't understand what residency is like until you're there. As much as you think you know what to expect, you won't."

Profound words, and as I start med school, they former part definitely rings true.

 

[Picklesali]

No maybe about it. You will definitely look back and be awed by your ignorance.

On another subject, why is it so hard for people to accept that much of medical training blows on a purely subjective level independent of attitude? I am known for my generally good attitude and cheerful disposition but I am perhaps the biggest critic of residency training you can possibly find on the internet or anywhere. Long hours, low pay, sleep deprivation, and indentured servitude coupled with the tremendous inefficiency of residency training are the reality and there are very few residents, at least in my experience, scampering around the place singinging zippydedoodah.

So I was recently at a research conference and a professor was telling me about why he doesn't like the idea of MD/PhD degrees. He said that doctoral training and medical training were complete opposites in philosophy of training and therefore did not mix well together. He started talking about the residency and likened it to Military hazing. (Apparently his wife teaches at a med school) He said they work you on end with no sleep as a method to psychologically condition you to stop thinking too much and to make decisions quickly as sort of a reflex.

What do you guys think about this analysis, is it accurate? If so, do you think that it is the most effective method, or do you think it's outdated and needs to be changed. Any ideas?