Mount Sinai Closing Med School?

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almostMD

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This is all anecdotal evidence and I am simply posting here to see if anyone else has heard this. But I have heard it from more than one source that there is a great likelihood that Mount Sinai will not be accepting any more incoming classes. There was apparently some doubt if they were gonna be allowed to accept a class this year, which caused their admissions process to be delayed.

If you have any information about this, I'd love to hear about it and I think it would be illuminating for everyone here.
 
Can you please tell me where you got this anecdotal evidence, and can you please elaborate on what you think is going on and why.

Are you saying that they aren't accepting the class of 2007. What a heck is going on.

Please give me more detail then just "anecdotal evidence".

Thanks. I loved Mount Sinai.
 
was their admissions delayed? I stopped paying attention when they told me that a professor of epidemiology was not a science professor.
 
I am on the accreditation committe reviewing Mount Sinai for the upcoming LCME evaluation, and I can assure you in no uncertain terms, that Mount Sinai is doing extremely well. The student/faculty ratio is among the highest in the country, the endowment is still nearly half a billion dollars, philanthropy last year exceeded $106 million dollars, research grants topped $200 million, and applications increased significantly.

The school is actively recruiting the top applicants in the country. Period. Whoever is spreading these rumors is either ill-informed or lacks the sort of honesty that is neccessary in becoming a good physician.

Good luck!!
 
Here's a recent article that was posted on this forum last week:


http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/21/nyregion/21SINA.html


Sinai's laid off ~1500 workers in the past few years (500 now, 400+ earlier in the year, ~500 last year)

And since I believe in full disclosure, I will tell you the source of my "anecdotal" evidence that Sinai might be closing. I will reveal that I am a 4th year med student (no I won't reveal what school). This past winter, when applying for residency positions, I interviewed at Sinai, among many other places. At more than one place I was told to not even consider Sinai because there was credible evidence that they might have to shut the doors of its med school next year. I knew they had financial problems, everyone knows that, but I didn't think they were that bad. I asked a dean at my med school about this and she confirmed that she had heard the same news herself from insiders at Sinai. In fact, she strongly discouraged me from ranking Sinai because there was a possibility that my residency might get dissolved if they have to make drastic cuts (I've heard this is a very real possibility at several other prominent medical centers).

Whether this is all going to come to fruition is debatable. Remember that just because they have an endowment and get NIH funding, that doesn't indicate the financial health of an institution. You must consider debt and financing on the debt....that is really huge. Sinai is hundreds of millions in debt. They've had to lay off >1000 workers in the last few years. They were "divorced" by nyu and their partnership has dissolved. Sinia has canceled construction of a new research building and have eliminated plans to recruit new faculty. In terms of the institution's "health", I'd say they are on the table in full V-fib, to use a medical analogy.

the point is for future students to investigate and decide for themselves.
 
I think we can all agree that Mt. Sinai hospital is not doing well financially. To my understanding, however, the school has separate endowments and financial resources, not to mention clinical affiliates other than Mt. Sinai hospital. I really don't think the school is going anywhere any time soon. Besides, I'll bet there are several NYC philantropy organizations that would love to get their name on the name of the school (e.g. like how Cornell is Weill Medical College), which could keep it running for some time.
 
Hm, now I don't feel so bad that they did not deign to inerview my enchanting self...
 
Just a note:

Residencies are in the hospital they have little to do with the medical school from what little I understand. So if they said don't go to a residency there thats different than medical school there.

Also, perhaps this person giving this information is in fact a premed student who wishes to attend Mt. S so bad that he wishes everyone to withdraw their application so he can get in the waitlist.

I am not trying to be mean or anything, just presenting a critical eye. So if your going there or intend to perhaps take this information with a grain of salt and contact the AMA or some other organization that overseas and find out for yourself. And besides, perhaps they will close their doors while your a second year well there are 200 other people that will be in teh same boat as you and will not just become premeds again something will be done on your behalf or there will be hell to pay if they just close shop or conduct some shenangins like enron.
 
almostMD, why is eveything you post such a bummer?

i remember back when NJMS was my only acceptance, you posted on another thread that everyone at your exalted medical school made fun of NJMS students.

of course, now that Sinai is one of my top picks, you choose to make an announcement that the medical school is closing. your proof is from "insiders" at Sinai and, as usual, your amazing medical school. just what is your superior medical school? i'm going to venture a wild guess and say it's Columbia.

anyway, i don't know if you're trying to be helpful, but if you are, you're seriously going about it the wrong way. why on earth would a 4th year med. student who rarely posts come to the pre-allo board, just to "simply post to see if anyone else has heard the same thing"? this seems more a mean spirited attempt to get people riled up.

so, just as i'm suspicious of your motives, perhaps you should be more critical of what residency directors at other institutions are telling you. of course they're going to try to make another place look bad. they want people to rank them highly! so i really wouldn't put it beyond any residency director to take little snippets and sound bites that he's heard elsewhere, and blow them totally out of proportion in order to discourage a lovely top-10-medical school student such as yourself from ranking other programs.
 
he's probably a 4th-year columbia pre-med. prototypical gunner

endself.gif
 
alomstMD must be on the alternate list at Mount Sinai, now trying to convince people to withdraw their applications so he could get in.
 
So, your "inside source" is residency directors at competing medical schools. That doesn't sound very inside to me!!

By the way, do they happen to have the "inside" scoop on whether elvis is still alive. And, are they also the same people who recently spotted Bigfoot in a trailer park in Utah. What about UFOs? Any informatiuon on that?

In all fairness, where do you go to medical school that you are able to know so much about every other institution? As the say, "inquiring minds want to know."

Please don't feel compelled to respond. I actually prefer reading these forums when they are not consumed by petrty, and mean-spirited gossip.


Finally, to those on this forum applying to med school in earnest, best of luck. I hope you all get into great schools.
 
Originally posted by SolidGold
alomstMD must be on the alternate list at Mount Sinai, now trying to convince people to withdraw their applications so he could get in.
Or he didn't get in at all and is seeking vengeance 😛
 
Originally posted by SolidGold
alomstMD must be on the alternate list at Mount Sinai, now trying to convince people to withdraw their applications so he could get in.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: solidgold

wouldnt suprise me on SDN 😉

tein, that pic gets funnier and funnier everytime i see it 🙂
 
I am quite amused that you all think I'm still some pre-med!! Jeez, I went through that all 4 years ago, why would I want to relive that mentality again?!?

No, I am not on any wait-lists. I am truly a 4th year med student and I have already matched into a residency last week. I have absolutely no agenda here other than to expose things that some people might not be aware of. Believe it or not, the information you have at your disposal when you are an almost MD like myself is vastly different than you have as a pre-med, regardless of how well plugged-in you think you are.

Basically, I'm trying to tell you that as a pre-med you essentially don't know anything regarding medicine, med school politics and certainly not med school finances. You swallow what you're fed by the med school admissions office. I would assume that bright young future doctors would never take only one side of the story as the truth. That's part of the reason why I posted here asking if anyone else had heard what I heard.

And incidentally, if you think that the health of a medical center has no effect on the health of its med school, you are GROSSLY mistaken. The two are intrinsically linked. All of those departments of Surgery and Medicine, for example, at Mount Sinai hospital are academic departments in the school of medicine. Professors in the classroom and on the wards are members of these academic departments. To say that the med school and the hospital are separate entities is a fallacy.

In addition, to say that the quality of a residency has nothing to do with the med school of the hospital, I can tell you for a fact that if a hospital has no med school associated with it, it automatically becomes less desireable to train at. That's because the hospital is no longer considered an "Academic Medical Center". Try this exercise for yourself: name a great hospital that is NOT associated with a med school. I'll start you off: Mass General? no, Upenn? no. Hopkins? no. UCSF? no. Mayo? no. I think you get the picture. Residencies at non-academic medical centers are filled with foregin grads and bottom of the barrel US grads. It's a fact.

Once again, my point is not to scare people unintentionally. My point is to get people to ask questions and figure things out for themselves. That, in essence is what med school is about. When you get onto the wards, you won't be fed information, you'll have to ask questions to figure things out. Get some practice doing that now...it will pay off down the line.
 
Originally posted by almostMD
And incidentally, if you think that the health of a medical center has no effect on the health of its med school, you are GROSSLY mistaken. The two are intrinsically linked.
well, he might have a point on this one....
 
Again what is this inside source you say you have.
If you say "Deep Throat" I might take more credibility to your posts.:laugh:

Go on man, you post here in the pre-allo forum when you could be in the allo forum? I guess you like to see neurotic pre-meds who stress over what kind of stationary to use to write intent letters (YES, I saw this on a thread recently.) If I were matched as you say I would not waste my time on these boards, unless I was also a pre-med...
 
from a totally unbiased asst. prof. at Mount Sinai with no ulterior motives:

although the medical center and school are having major financial problems, the school is not closing and is unlikely to close anytime in the near future. The school is very heavily endowed and that has helped a great deal with getting it through difficult times. Lately there have been major changes in the administration and it looks like they have finally settled on people who can actually do a good job. It's very evident that the place (both school and hospital) has a long way to go before achieving any financial stability, but appropriate steps are being taken. And I haven't heard anything about the financial situation
compromising the quality of the medical education.


it's not all happiness and sunshine, but it's not all doom and gloom either.
 
This is from a 2nd year med student at Mt Sinai:

i have to tell you that i laughed when i read your email [re: the rumor that Mt Sinai is closing the med school]. if sinai is planning on closing its med school, then they are doing it all very secretly. we just had a class meeting yesterday with the dean of the medical school and the dean of student affairs and they can only talk about how we are continuing to improve in our rank and in our matches.

I myself am matriculating this fall for the class of 2007 at MSSM, and i am confident that Sinai will provide me with a top-notch education and maintain its strong reputation in the medical community.

I really think this rumor is just a cock and bull story. my 2 cents.
 
Originally posted by banannie
from a totally unbiased asst. prof. at Mount Sinai with no ulterior motives:

although the medical center and school are having major financial problems, the school is not closing and is unlikely to close anytime in the near future. The school is very heavily endowed and that has helped a great deal with getting it through difficult times. Lately there have been major changes in the administration and it looks like they have finally settled on people who can actually do a good job. It's very evident that the place (both school and hospital) has a long way to go before achieving any financial stability, but appropriate steps are being taken. And I haven't heard anything about the financial situation
compromising the quality of the medical education.


it's not all happiness and sunshine, but it's not all doom and gloom either.

I agree - even if Mt. Sinai changes its name, or goes through a merger/buyout, it will still be a very good school! Financial instability (or rumors of it) will not change the teaching, and the environment of the school. And I'm sure the financial aid should remain relatively good, since the school has backup money from endowments.
 
To be technical about it, I only heard that Sinai might not be accepting any NEW classes starting next year. They would of course continue to provide an education for current students.

If rumors of Sinai's demise are premature, I apologize for scaring people unnecessarily. But at least I hope I put the thought in at least one person's mind to look a little deeper at what med school's tell you about their situation.
 
"I am on the waitlist, so please decline."

Dude, I like the school a lot too, but I'm not starting any bogus threads...YET. Maybe if they keep me waiting another month or so...I might crack.🙄

Until then, all feel free to call Mount Sinai and get this "inside" info for yourself...financial problems are not easy to hide you know.
 
Originally posted by almostMD


Basically, I'm trying to tell you that as a pre-med you essentially don't know anything regarding medicine, med school politics and certainly not med school finances. You swallow what you're fed by the med school admissions office. I would assume that bright young future doctors would never take only one side of the story as the truth. That's part of the reason why I posted here asking if anyone else had heard what I heard.


Hmm.... anyone else here find it curious that this person is asking if any of us have heard what they heard, especially because as pre-meds, we "don't know anything regarding medicine, med school politics and certainly not med school finances"?

If we, as pre-meds in the pre-allopathic forum, do not know anything about med schools, why would you come to us to confirm a rumor that you heard?

Nice logic, AlmostMD. Good luck with the Sinai waitlist.
 
I was directing my original question at anyone, including the MANY med students, and med school graduates that I know peruse the pre-allopathic website. Why'd I chose the pre-allopathic site to post on? I don't know, I guess I could have posted on the allopathic site too. But I know many of the same people read both sites so what does it matter? Furthermore, the ensuing discussion wouldn't be very helpful to current med students who are not in the process of choosing a med school. This info is much more likely to help current pre-meds decide about picking a school.

As an aside, current med students, or at least 4th year students who have made the rounds for residency, know all about Sinai's bleak situation and know enough to try to avoid Sinai residencies at all cost. I know at my med school, there was a noticeable drop-off in the number of people going to residency at sinai this year. I have no doubt that financial fear influenced this trend.

I find it funny that you think that I'm on the Sinai wait list or something. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Truth be told, when I did apply to med school, I got into Sinai and many other places and turned them down to go to school at my current location.

Regardless, you pre-meds have a LONG 4 years ahead of you no matter where you go to school. Every year of med school (outside of the latter stages of 4th year) gets harder and harder. Good luck to all and even more so to those unfortunate souls that wind up at Sinai.
 
Since you are so persistent I will join your waitlist cause...DO NOT GO TO SINAI.🙄

I guess you must really like the school; I liked it too, but this belongs in the "Am I a gunner?" thread b/c trying to lure people away is just so sad.

Good luck on the waitlist though, I hope you do get in, especially since times are so bleak. Oh and don't forget the possibility of terrorist attacks, that's a concern too...🙄

Anonymity is a good thing on the internet, it protects identity, but when making these "insider" claims your arguments lack merit. But I might make the waitlist too, so the dark side of me is hoping you do "reach just one person.":laugh:
 
Ha ha ha! I AM NOT A PRE-MED! I AM NOT ON ANY WAITLIST!!! I AM 2 MONTHS AWAY FROM BEING A DOCTOR!!!!

I hope Sinai attracts so many students that it doesn't need to go to the waitlist.

Argh! I've spent the clinical years trying to convince my patients that I'm old enough to be their doctor. Now I have to convince a bunch of college kids that I'm actually in med school. Whatever. Believe what you want. I don't know exactly how to convince you. I will NOT reveal my med school or the names of my sources on the sinai information. Good luck.
 
i believe him. not everyone who posts something that is not the most pleasant thing to hear has alterior motives. even if someone was accepted to sinai, do you honestly believe they'll withdraw after reading something like this? frankly, i don't.
 
Today is one of those days...when I spill the media in the lab and just cannot concentrate. it carries over to other areas and before I know it it's really late again and I can't sleep.

At least I know my insomnia is not b/c of the Mount Sinai economic "troubles." Maybe I had too much caffeine, or Letterman was too good again. Oh well, maybe reading more posts from almostintelligent will make me sleepy enough to retire for the night.

Oh no, I keep laughing again.:laugh:

If I start to like Pritzker, watch out for the huge economic trouble thread of Pritzker I'm gonna cook up. Maybe I can just "reach one person." 🙄
 
i think it is highly unlikely that mount sinai school of medicine would be shutting down in any way. you need to understand that sinai is heavily endowed (the school's private endowment is 9 figures large). secondly in the highly unlikely and apocalyptic scenario that sinai was indeed going to be at risk of a default or insolvency, don't you think that the city, state and feds would intervene? what should be the ultimate tip off to you all as to how bogus this rumor is (and I don't blame AlmostMD, i blame his/her source) is that there is no way that a university hospital as huge and comprehensive as sinai, in as affluent an area as the upper east side, in as central and crucial a city as newyork (especially these days) would be allowed to default or be rendered insolvent. before that happened, Bloomberg, Pataki and the state legislators would bail out the hospital. If that didn't work you can bet that the President and Congress would put together an emergency aid package. Believe me, over the years the tax payer and uncle sam have bailed out Chrysler, the airlines numerous times, and the savings and loan banks so there is absolutely no reason that the government would compromise homeland security by allowing mount sinai or the mount sinai school of medicine to go under.

...and that's the bottom line...
 
I just want to say that I don't think that almostMD is lying. I believe that he is actually a medical student. Maybe the rumor isn't right but I do believe him and think that he has a point. I am sure as a medical student you are privy to much more information and rumors about medical schools. By the way the last poster was wrong about one thing. Mount Sinai is not a University medical center. It is a medical school started by the hospital not by any university.

Mount Sinai has a LCME visit coming up later this year. I have looked at their self study and I have not seen anything to indicate that they are not going to be accepting a class next year. So AlmostMD I would recommend going to their website and looking at the information yourself. Then you can decide for yourself.
 
my viewpoint: I believe Mt. Sinai will not be closing ever. if the OP really is on the mt sinai waitlist, then best wishes, because I think Mt Sinai is a highly prestigious school, despite this unfounded rumor.
 
wounding the soldier and then pouring salt... oh I feel the love in this thread
 
Hey carrigallen-

I'm sure it was your oh-so-witty sense of humor that got you into that "highly prestigious" med school you'll be attending next year.
 
You know, I believe the OP. Here are a few things to kind of back him up:

First off, his user name is AlmostMD. That does seem to imply that he would be in his fourth year about to graduate. And that would put him having just matched and probably having the inside sources that he says he has (Which would check out)

Second, he registered in December, not March. If he registered in March, I would believe he is a fake poster.

Thirdly, nothing he has said strikes me as being way off. Mount Sinai is run by the hospital, so I'm willing to bet the finances are linked. And as for the huge endowment, a lot of that would be in the stock market, and with the way the economy is going, the endowment would have shrunk tons. That is why private colleges across america is raising tuition right now (And public ones)

As for whether the med school will close down anytime soon (next 2 years), I personally doubt it. But that last one is just my opinion.
 
I think this article succinctly summarizes the problems that the Sinai hospital has been having: [from Sunday's NY Times]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/07/health/07SINA.html

From the article, it seemed to me that there were some fishy fiscal issues between the hospital and the medical school [something in relation to selling apartments from the hospital to the school], and that in general, perks were being cut at the hospital. This last point doesn't bode well for the medical school either, due to the fact that some Sinai's best clinicians and teachers might jump ship to other institutions. Otherwise, the basic sciences aspect of the institution, its research, and its own endowment remain unaffected.

Yours,
 
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