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Methylation

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I've been accepted to both schools and unfortunately will be unable to attend second look for either school to get a better feel of which to attend. Financially speaking, both schools offered me nearly equal amount of loans so this is a nonissue.

From my interview day experiences, it seems like Mount Sinai is a much more down to earth and relaxed environment than Cornell (True P/F no ranking, online exams, etc.) I recall the students even referring to it as "Camp Sinai".

Cornell does have a P/F system but I believe there is some sort of internal ranking. What attracts me to cornell are its big name affiliations with HSS, MSKCC, and NYP. However, I'm not really sure how many opportunities will be available for medical students to work in these locations.

Cornell's curriculum is partly based on PBL, which I'm not too fond of (I'd prefer Sinai's lecture based), but from talking with current medical students in a PBL system it's pretty easy to adjust so I'm not too too worried about it.

Anybody else in a similar situation / have advice on how to go about picking between these schools? Thank you in advance!
 

lindtchocolate

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I've been accepted to both schools and unfortunately will be unable to attend second look for either school to get a better feel of which to attend. Financially speaking, both schools offered me nearly equal amount of loans so this is a nonissue.

From my interview day experiences, it seems like Mount Sinai is a much more down to earth and relaxed environment than Cornell (True P/F no ranking, online exams, etc.) I recall the students even referring to it as "Camp Sinai".

Cornell does have a P/F system but I believe there is some sort of internal ranking. What attracts me to cornell are its big name affiliations with HSS, MSKCC, and NYP. However, I'm not really sure how many opportunities will be available for medical students to work in these locations.

Cornell's curriculum is partly based on PBL, which I'm not too fond of (I'd prefer Sinai's lecture based), but from talking with current medical students in a PBL system it's pretty easy to adjust so I'm not too too worried about it.

Anybody else in a similar situation / have advice on how to go about picking between these schools? Thank you in advance!

I have been accepted to the same schools and Columbia.

Between Sinai and Cornell -
I think Cornell has more of the prestige factor (especially outside the medical world), though more people know about Mount Sinai than I expected. Would a patient be more likely to choose a Cornell doctor over a Mount Sinai doctor? Would an IGO recognize Cornell more than Sinai? IDK.
On the other hand, Sinai seems to be more focused on improving its educational quality/research capacity and Cornell seems like it's stagnating (although, they do have a new Dean so maybe that will change).

Columbia and Sinai revisits were both so great that it's making the decision tougher.
 

Methylation

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It definitely seems like Sinai has been rising quickly over the last couple of years whereas Cornell has been stagnant at best. Can you talk about your experiences at Mount Sinai's second look?

Prestige wise, you can't ignore the ivy league name of Cornell. When talking others about my decision between Cornell and Mount Sinai, a common response was "Mount what?" Granted, those within in the medical community and especially those within NYC have great respect for Sinai but I don't think its as well known outside the northeast.
 
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TheMightySmiter

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It seems from your post as though you liked Sinai better but are having trouble letting go of the Cornell name. In medicine, especially in NY and the northeast, Sinai is very well-known and respected. Don't let the Ivy League name draw you away from Sinai if you have a better gut feeling about it!
 

rachy87

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It seems from your post as though you liked Sinai better but are having trouble letting go of the Cornell name. In medicine, especially in NY and the northeast, Sinai is very well-known and respected. Don't let the Ivy League name draw you away from Sinai if you have a better gut feeling about it!
I second this. Go with your gut feeling. I'm from the Midwest and know a lot people that think Sinai is great.
 

Vachata

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I've been accepted to both schools and unfortunately will be unable to attend second look for either school to get a better feel of which to attend. Financially speaking, both schools offered me nearly equal amount of loans so this is a nonissue.

From my interview day experiences, it seems like Mount Sinai is a much more down to earth and relaxed environment than Cornell (True P/F no ranking, online exams, etc.) I recall the students even referring to it as "Camp Sinai".

Cornell does have a P/F system but I believe there is some sort of internal ranking. What attracts me to cornell are its big name affiliations with HSS, MSKCC, and NYP. However, I'm not really sure how many opportunities will be available for medical students to work in these locations.

Cornell's curriculum is partly based on PBL, which I'm not too fond of (I'd prefer Sinai's lecture based), but from talking with current medical students in a PBL system it's pretty easy to adjust so I'm not too too worried about it.

Anybody else in a similar situation / have advice on how to go about picking between these schools? Thank you in advance!

I spent a summer at WCMC for a research fellowship, got to see first hand what it was like at the med school as well as the hospital affiliates. If you would like, you can email me and I can give you specific details about my experience. Overall, Cornell was very down to earth and I loved my time there.
 

Grizzlys34

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I'm in a similar bind and was wondering if anybody else could comment on the Cornell v. Sinai choice? I have an interest in orthopedics so I'd think Cornell's affiliation with HSS would help a ton, but that interest could change completely in the coming years. Also, Cornell will cost about 30k more over the 4 years but I don't necessarily want finances to make the decision for me...
 

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in terms of name brand, cornell is bigger than sinai, not many people in the west heard of sinai
 

jesse120

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in terms of name brand, cornell is bigger than sinai, not many people in the west heard of sinai

...and by "people," are you referring to a random guy on the street or residency program directors? I can just imagine them looking at an application and saying, "Mount Sinai? I never heard of that school! Are they new or something??" Yeah, kinda doubt it :laugh:
 

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...and by "people," are you referring to a random guy on the street or residency program directors? I can just imagine them looking at an application and saying, "Mount Sinai? I never heard of that school! Are they new or something??" Yeah, kinda doubt it :laugh:
haha, exactly.

When you are applying for residency, you will never come across a situation where the Cornell "prestige" will get you farther than Sinai. Both institutions are very similar in ranking and how well known/competitive they are among the medical field.

You may get the prestige factor when talking to some random person and telling them you go to Cornell Med instead of Sinai Med, but I doubt you want to base your choice of medical school on how well known it is among the general public.
 

darkhope

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agreed, both are great schools. But just fyi:

Cornell:
Peer assessement score: 4.1
Residency director assessment: 4.4

Mount Sinai:
Peer assessement score: 3.8
Residency director assessment: 3.9
 
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mistoffelees

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First year IS "Camp Sinai."

The strong differences between Sinai and Cornell are focus of the med school (Sinai is a lot more community driven and Cornell more medical specialties with MSK and NYP), curriculum structure (one of the earliest champions of PBL at Cornell and traditional, remote testing honor code pseudo-Yale system at Sinai), and scheduling (8-1 at Cornell, 10-4 at Sinai).

oh, and of course, you get a "free" ipad at Cornell =p
 

drizzt3117

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Cornell has a significant advance in national reputation over Sinai. I think Sinai is a bit more laid back environment during clinical training, though. Cornell's environment is a bit more malignant. I would still choose Cornell though; the ability to work with some of the biggest names in medicine can pay dividends if you're interested in competitive fields.
 

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Cornell has a significant advance in national reputation over Sinai. I think Sinai is a bit more laid back environment during clinical training, though. Cornell's environment is a bit more malignant. I would still choose Cornell though; the ability to work with some of the biggest names in medicine can pay dividends if you're interested in competitive fields.

I'd have to disagree with point. I think a lot of Cornell's reputation is associated with its affiliation with Columbia (loose affiliation at best) and its affiliation with MSK and HSS. If anything, I'd argue that Sinai has a lot more "big name" doctors than Cornell does, at least in the fields that I care about.
 

Grizzlys34

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Despite the relaxed environment, the one thing I did seem to pick up on from sinai students was a somewhat inferiority complex because they were at a non-ivy league school in a city with 2 ivys. Just an anecdote from my interviews: when I mentioned to my host that I already interviewed at cornell, columbia, and nyu, she proceeded to criticize cornell and columbia for being too competitive and said sinai was much cooler and relaxed but confessed that had she gotten into either she probably would have gone there...:confused:

From the other perspective, cornell students I met did not seem overly ecstatic about their school as sinai students were during interview day. They had a somewhat superiority complex and implied that you go to cornell for the name, prestige, and affiliations because the administration doesn't really care for student concerns (well at least not to the level of Sinai...)

I was wondering if any current students could address or dispel these observations I picked up on during my limited time at the schools.
 

jbz24

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Despite the relaxed environment, the one thing I did seem to pick up on from sinai students was a somewhat inferiority complex because they were at a non-ivy league school in a city with 2 ivys. Just an anecdote from my interviews: when I mentioned to my host that I already interviewed at cornell, columbia, and nyu, she proceeded to criticize cornell and columbia for being too competitive and said sinai was much cooler and relaxed but confessed that had she gotten into either she probably would have gone there...:confused:

From the other perspective, cornell students I met did not seem overly ecstatic about their school as sinai students were during interview day. They had a somewhat superiority complex and implied that you go to cornell for the name, prestige, and affiliations because the administration doesn't really care for student concerns (well at least not to the level of Sinai...)

I was wondering if any current students could address or dispel these observations I picked up on during my limited time at the schools.

Different cultures at different schools. I think in some ways the schools self-select different personalities simply from some of the reasons you mention.
 

drizzt3117

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I'd have to disagree with point. I think a lot of Cornell's reputation is associated with its affiliation with Columbia (loose affiliation at best) and its affiliation with MSK and HSS. If anything, I'd argue that Sinai has a lot more "big name" doctors than Cornell does, at least in the fields that I care about.

It's field dependent, but obviously being able to rotate at HSS/MSK isn't a bad thing and is very nice for people interested in rad onc, heme-onc, surg-onc, etc, as well as orthopedics. Cornell was also a pioneer in other surgical specialties like urology, and has a better radiology department as well. I'll have to defer to others for some other fields but obviously Cornell/NY Hosp is very well know for IM as well although Sinai is good too.
 

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I think they're both really great schools. But completely different. Cornell is smaller 100 students vs. maybe 140? at Sinai. This actually probably makes a little bit of a culture difference. Grading system is a little bit more competitive at Cornell (i.e. internal ranking). Cornell probably has a better international health program than Sinai. Sinai is probably way better in the primary care sector. I personally liked the vibe at Sinai more. A bit more of the granola liberal arts type who wants to save the world (it's really refreshing) vs. a little bit more of the straight-laced, specialist types at Cornell. I think Sinai had an overall better mix of people with different interests. Plus, I personally liked the Sinai location better. Sort of a mix of poor and affluent, right on the park, with awesome apartments considering the price and location (and rooftop views). Cornell location is good...but it's little bit more of a rich-only Upper East neighborhood and a bit farther from the subway system.

I don't think prestige factor will play much of a role. Both are Top 20, and (despite being lower ranked in the eyes of the public...), I'll go out on a limb here and say if you were comparing just Cornell Medical School vs. Sinai Medical School, Sinai might have the higher density of top researchers who are respected in academic medicine circles. Cornell benefits a lot from being connected to MSK, HSS, and Rockefeller. But, technically MSK and Rockefeller aren't really part of Cornell....and any NYC medical student can work in a lab there or do rotations there.

Having said that, if you're interested in orthopedics, there's really no denying that HSS is really amazing. Lots of opportunities there to work with top people in an obviously competitive field. Definitely something to consider strongly. People here can debate other issues (like curriculum and what time you have class)...but ultimately, these things aren't going to matter all that much once you get to medical school.
 

drizzt3117

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I don't think prestige factor will play much of a role. Both are Top 20, and (despite being lower ranked in the eyes of the public...), I'll go out on a limb here and say if you were comparing just Cornell Medical School vs. Sinai Medical School, Sinai might have the higher density of top researchers who are respected in academic medicine circles. Cornell benefits a lot from being connected to MSK, HSS, and Rockefeller. But, technically MSK and Rockefeller aren't really part of Cornell....and any NYC medical student can work in a lab there or do rotations there.

They'd count as away rotations for non-Cornell students, though, which is a lot different environment than rotating there as a home student. It's also much easier to do research there if your own medical school will give you funding and administrative things are way different when it's an outside institution. This is also true for boston childrens' and the farber with HMS as well as CHOP with Penn; having these affiliations is a huge strength for their medical schools.
 

jbz24

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It's field dependent, but obviously being able to rotate at HSS/MSK isn't a bad thing and is very nice for people interested in rad onc, heme-onc, surg-onc, etc, as well as orthopedics. Cornell was also a pioneer in other surgical specialties like urology, and has a better radiology department as well. I'll have to defer to others for some other fields but obviously Cornell/NY Hosp is very well know for IM as well although Sinai is good too.

I'd agree that Cornell has some good departments, I was just referring to the comment about the big names. Sinai has, both historically and currently, some of the biggest names in GI. Sinai's cardiology and CT departments also have probably some of the biggest names in the world, probably moreso than Columbia and definitely more than Cornell (they don't really have anyone that stands out). Not sure how big the names are but ortho at HSS is clearly the choice over Sinai. Also can't say much about big names in radiology but the clear choice for radiology in NYC, at least historically, is NYU. In the end, there are strengths of each hospital. The problem with so many good hospitals in close proximity is that there are none that are the best at everything.
 

drizzt3117

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A lot of people would choose Cornell over nyu for rads now; facilities are better at Cornell and it's much less malignant. I think in general, surgical residencies are better at Cornell (although Columbia is probably the best in NYC)

I'd agree that Cornell has some good departments, I was just referring to the comment about the big names. Sinai has, both historically and currently, some of the biggest names in GI. Sinai's cardiology and CT departments also have probably some of the biggest names in the world, probably moreso than Columbia and definitely more than Cornell (they don't really have anyone that stands out). Not sure how big the names are but ortho at HSS is clearly the choice over Sinai. Also can't say much about big names in radiology but the clear choice for radiology in NYC, at least historically, is NYU. In the end, there are strengths of each hospital. The problem with so many good hospitals in close proximity is that there are none that are the best at everything.
 

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This is a conjecture, but I think I can account for the MSSM's relatively low residency ratings.

I looked at the residency director ratings for the US World News Report methodology. My guess is that residency directors are making a gut judgment about MSSM graduates who entered/are entering residency in recent years (around 2011). This would mean that the directors are considering MSSM students who entered year of 2007 and years prior. If we take into account that MSSM's leap in the rankings (from 33 to 22 I think) in 2009, I'm guessing that the academic caliber of students (not to put down previous graduates) coming into MSSM probably became more competitive (a guess based of the general trend that higher rankings tend to mean that schools are more selective). Thus, I would expect Residency Director ratings in the US World News Report for MSSM to move up significantly over the next few years as students post-2009 come under the residency director's scrutiny/considerations. This would suggest that ratings would change most significantly after the US World News Report 2014-15 (after post-2009 students enter residency).Given that MSSM's rankings have still been moving up since 2009, I think residency director ratings for MSSM will have some significant upward movement for some time.

Let me know if my thoughts are erroneous!
 

lindtchocolate

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It definitely seems like Sinai has been rising quickly over the last couple of years whereas Cornell has been stagnant at best. Can you talk about your experiences at Mount Sinai's second look?

Prestige wise, you can't ignore the ivy league name of Cornell. When talking others about my decision between Cornell and Mount Sinai, a common response was "Mount what?" Granted, those within in the medical community and especially those within NYC have great respect for Sinai but I don't think its as well known outside the northeast.

My revisit experience was great. Here is what someone posted on the Mount Sinai thread. I bolded the highlights and think it's a pretty accurate summary of the weekend:

"Two informational parts of the weekend were panels, one faculty panel and later one med student panel. The format was the panelists speaking a bit, and then the prospective students asking questions. The med students in the student panel were amazing- knowledgable, eloquent, and seemed to genuinely love the school. Later, in a presentation by a surgeon, he said that he thought the most important value for a physician to have is humility (*while still being confident). We met many med students during lunch. Every MSSM student I met was very nice, modest, gave helpful answers and also was very impressive: they seemed like very smart, very busy people. Something I heard a lot was, "When deciding on schools, go where the students are happy. Students are happy here." That seemed true to me! Another thing I heard a few times was that Sinai students "work hard and play hard."

Sinai emphasized how supportive they are of students- it seems like there is a lot of student-administration communication, and that it is easy to obtain an MD mentor in a field relevant to your interests. Sinai (they say) doesn't pressure students into particular fields (like surgical sub-specialties or anything). They emphasized the importance of teamwork, dealing with the emotional side of care, communicating effectively with patients. Of course they emphasized the science-y aspects too. For example, they are constructing a new, huge research building. It's the second largest construction project in Manhattan right now (second to the reconstruction of the World Trade Center). I think they said it should be done within the year.

I can't think of any downsides I observed at revisit weekend. I guess one might be that some of the Sinai buildings aren't very pretty.

Overall, I (and many other people that I talked to) got the feeling that Sinai is a rising, progressive school that cares about its students."
 

drizzt3117

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You guys need to stop paying so much attention to the rankings. They change based on factors that don't matter to students. After the accounting of MD Anderson changed, baylor dropped from 10 to 20 in a year. Do you think the quality of education is any different? Cornell has and will continue to have a higher ranking with residency directors because its alumni are better represented in leadership positions at top programs. This isn't going to change with a few positions change on the us news list.
 
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