MPH/MBA before or after Residency?!

[huss797]

Hi all,

I am close to finishing my medical studies (MD), and am considering doing my residency in surgery. At the same time, I am very interested in MPH and/or MBA programs. Although I want to work as a clinician, I think i can make use of MPH in epidemiologic research, and of MBA in leading positions at hospitals. I am sort of torn between my desire to do my residency and practice medicine, and my need to try something new (and yet relevant to my career).

I was wondering, when is it the best time to do such an MPH/MBA or one of the two? directly after finishing med school or after finishing a 4-5 year residency program? I am quite young (24), and I have a limited proffessional experience, but a strong research experience (incl. statistics). I contacted some schools that said the experience I have is likely to be sufficient.

Would it lower my chances to get into surgical residency if I take a "break" from clinical medicine and spend approx. 1.5-2 years doing an MPH or MBA?

I'd appreciate any help, comments, and advice!

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[gutonc]

Assuming you are a competitive candidate for Surgery in other respects, you might be better served during your MPH/MBA during your "research" years in surgical residency. If you need add'l stuff to buff your CV and make you more attractive to residency programs then doing it earlier would be better.

 

[dragonfly99]

Agree with gutondoc
but off the cuff I'd say it would be better to give surgery residency a go right now...while you are young and strong
You can mention your desire to purse health-related research (and/or hospital administration) in your application for residency, since most residencies like academically-oriented applicants.

You might want to decide more what it is you want to do with your career, so you can decide which of the degrees to get also. I would think an MPH would be best if you want to do population-based clinical research, outcomes research, etc. If you are more interested in health care financing (say, funding of trauma surgery units, etc.) then a master's of health administration or MBA might be more useful. Usually for the MHA and MBA, they like to see applicants with more work experience, so I think it would be better to do that degree either during or after residency.

You might want to post a question on the surgery thread to get input from people in your future field about your questions...

 

[surg]

Do it in residency or after. If you plan right and find the right program, someone else will pay for the degree. If you decide to leave medicine then, you'll be ready to do so without as many regrets and you'll be able to leverage your clinical knowledge and structural knowledge of clinical care. Research wise, you won't be doing dedicated research time for a while, so having your skills be relatively fresh just before you do the bulk of your research (either during research years or as a faculty member) is a lot easier for staying current on the latest methods and data sources. Anyway, residency will provide you enough newness without having to look for another degree for stimulation.

 

[DrJosephKim]

You will always have the opportunity to get an MPH and/or MBA after you complete your education and training. If you're willing to take the time to get the degree now, then I'd encourage you to pursue an MPH (or a combined degree so that you don't lose more time).

There are a growing number of online (distance learning) programs for an MPH and MBA, so you can pursue your education and have flexibility.

 

[huss797]

Thank you all for the replies.
Actually I will finish my degree from Germany in October, and will therefore only be able to start my residency in July the next year. At the same time, I found an MPH/MBA program at John Hopkins that starts in January, and is only 18 months long. So I would only have to postpone my residency for 1 year if I start that program.

As an IMG, I thought an MPH/MBA degree would help make my application more attractive for academic hospitals. My steps are 88 and 94. I have a long and relevant US clinical experience (about a year), a German Doctoral Dissertation (with several publications incl. 1st authorships), and I speak Spanish and a few other languages! Still, I am not sure if this would be sufficient for good surgery programs since I need a visa.

Regarding the decision for MPH or MBA, I am interested in both the statistical part of an MPH and the financial/economic part of an MBA..

Am I wrong in my thought, that some residency programs might see the 18-month break from clinical medicine (for the sake of MPH/MBA) as a disadvantage?

Best Regards from Heidelberg

 

[Winged Scapula]

Thank you all for the replies.
Actually I will finish my degree from Germany in October, and will therefore only be able to start my residency in July the next year. At the same time, I found an MPH/MBA program at John Hopkins that starts in January, and is only 18 months long. So I would only have to postpone my residency for 1 year if I start that program.

As an IMG, I thought an MPH/MBA degree would help make my application more attractive for academic hospitals. My steps are 88 and 94. I have a long and relevant US clinical experience (about a year), a German Doctoral Dissertation (with several publications incl. 1st authorships), and I speak Spanish and a few other languages! Still, I am not sure if this would be sufficient for good surgery programs since I need a visa.

Unfortunately, advanced degrees, unless they are PhDs are not very helpful in the surgery residency application. Your application will be screened for your USMLE scores (which are decent but a fair bit below the 99/99 we usually see from FMGs) and citizenship. If you can get past that part of the application, then some places may find an MPH, your publications, etc. of interest enough to interview you.

Do not obtain an advanced degree just because you think it will help you get into a residency program. It will be an expensive experiment. I would take the advice of others above and try to get into a training program and then see if you can get the degree during some lab/research years. This is pretty common; I have a friend getting her PhD during that (extended) time. Getting it after you finish is hard, at least in the US, because of the temptation to start working and paying off our large student loans.

Regarding the decision for MPH or MBA, I am interested in both the statistical part of an MPH and the financial/economic part of an MBA..

Am I wrong in my thought, that some residency programs might see the 18-month break from clinical medicine (for the sake of MPH/MBA) as a disadvantage?

Best Regards from Heidelberg

You are not wrong. However, its a short period and you are doing something useful and interesting with the time, so I wouldn't worry much about it if you are really keen on pursuing the degree (although as noted above, I'd wait and get someone else to pay for the degree while in residency).

 

[Leukocyte]

Thank you all for the replies.
Actually I will finish my degree from Germany in October, and will therefore only be able to start my residency in July the next year. At the same time, I found an MPH/MBA program at John Hopkins that starts in January, and is only 18 months long. So I would only have to postpone my residency for 1 year if I start that program.

As an IMG, I thought an MPH/MBA degree would help make my application more attractive for academic hospitals. My steps are 88 and 94. I have a long and relevant US clinical experience (about a year), a German Doctoral Dissertation (with several publications incl. 1st authorships), and I speak Spanish and a few other languages! Still, I am not sure if this would be sufficient for good surgery programs since I need a visa.

Regarding the decision for MPH or MBA, I am interested in both the statistical part of an MPH and the financial/economic part of an MBA..

Am I wrong in my thought, that some residency programs might see the 18-month break from clinical medicine (for the sake of MPH/MBA) as a disadvantage?

Best Regards from Heidelberg

So why are you getting a MPH or a MBA again? What is your career plan? Are you going to use these degrees? Getting a MPH or MBA thinking that it will make you more competetive for residency does not make a whole lot of sence. Do you really think a program director will chose you over another IMG who has better USMLE scores, just because you have extra (NON-RESEARCH) degrees? You see, program directors recieve TONS of applications each year. They screen these application before they even read them. What they look for is pretty standard and simple:

1) AMG vs IMG
2) Medical School performance RED FLAGS
3) USMLE scores
4) Letters of recommendation from MDs in the field
5) Research in the field (They care less if you have a PhD or not. All they care about is if you were actively involved in research or not).
6) Interview - VERY/Completely subjective

That is it. Unless you are actually planning on a career that involves public health or bussiness, getting these degrees might not help you much.

 

[dragonfly99]

OK,
now I agree with the above comments.
Getting an MPH or MBA in the US is going to be quite expensive for you, with no guaranteed US residency after that. You need to think hard about what you want. If you want the MPH or MBA for its own sake, and would consider a career that uses one of those degrees without getting US clinical training, then go for it (as long as you are willing to pay the tuition and living expenses). You could try for a scholarship...some places may have them for international students even.

Even for a US student, a surgical residency wouldn't be guaranteed without a high class rank and high USMLE scores. Your step 1 score isn't that great, though the Step 2 sounds better. If I were in your situation and wanted to pursue surgery, I'd probably just stay in Germany and pursue surgery residency there. If you still strongly want to pursue surgery in the US, I think it would be better to try and do research for a few months, or a year or two, in some US academic surgeon's research lab at some major US medical center or university. You'd have a better chance at getting in to surgery residency with someone to pull strings for you.

 

[Blade28]

Agree with the above excellent posts.