Mr. Indecisive

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dantemac

dantemac

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Hi guys, I have to admit I need a little help choosing a school this month. I never create posts on here, I usually try to help answer other people's questions, but here goes:

Penn, Pitt, Maryland, or NYU?

Here is my thoughts on the subject:

Pitt: Attended the same school for undergrad. Loved it. I researched, volunteered, and shadowed students in the school, so I know what it has to offer. My thought is since a lot of my friends go there now and having lived there for 5 years, it would be a comfortable choice. I would have a roommate and good lay of the land. The downside is I am not really sure it is the best school out of the bunch. But it is certainly a good school and I don't know of any drawbacks I observed while there.

Penn: I am also pretty familiar with Penn, being from Philly and working in an internship with all Penn dentists fresh out of school. After talking to Dr. Sheridan I like how the vertical expansion of clinical exposure allows you to start assisting in your D1 year. I thought their externships and selectives were rather amazing. I also really like the organizations available and use of the Philly hospitals and other rotation sites. Also, they carry a good name.

Maryland: I feel so blessed to have gotten in here. Their school was so beautiful, I thought I was in a sci fi movie the way they architecturally designed light to flow into their building - that perfect. I like the integration of technology, obviously being mac and ipad friendly. Their program was also unique with the mini-GPRs and the study abroad options as your externship. Their Perryville retreat looked very nice too, seems like a great way to get away from the city and treat underserved people in rural Maryland.

NYU - This is the only school I wasn't impressed with. For a school that just remodeled, you'd think they have digital radiography and other technological triumphs, but the students all said it's not that nice. Their "well stocked" clinics really just screamed overcrowded to me. Also, $5000 in deposits? However, I've always wanted to live in New York City. That is a huge dream of mine. Also, their curriculum didn't seem all bad. I'm a social animal, I think a large class would be beneficial.

On a side note: I know the costs vary, but I'm trying for the military scholarship. My recruiter says I *should* get it. I met the guy on the day he was honored as the top Medical Programs recruiter in the country, so I am confident I have this thing. But obviously, in the back of my head, I know Pitt would be the cheapest in the event I don't get it. Also, I consider the locations equal: I spend lots of time in Philly and Baltimore (being from the East Coast), but I lived in Pitt for school and loved it.
 
dantemac said:
Maryland: I feel so blessed to have gotten in here. Their school was so beautiful, I thought I was in a sci fi movie the way they architecturally designed light to flow into their building - that perfect. I like the integration of technology, obviously being mac and ipad friendly. Their program was also unique with the mini-GPRs and the study abroad options as your externship. Their Perryville retreat looked very nice too, seems like a great way to get away from the city and treat underserved people in rural Maryland.
Click to expand...

There was some guy here in another thread who was a dental student at Maryland. He said the students don't really help one each other and are gunners. He might be exaggerating about his class but he makes it sound kinda bad. It definitely isn't as nice as it looks. The youtube video was kinda funny especially about installing TV's in the bathrooms.

This is the thread:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=873350
 
NYU seemed pretty cool, I just checked the mail 2 minutes ago and was surprised with an acceptance letter from them. Apparently my email spam filter blocked the email. lol. But back to your decision. I would consider living costs too, because the military won't pay you more for living in a more expensive city. What branch are you applying for btw? I honestly don't think you'd be going wrong with any of those schools as far as just getting a good dental education. It seems like all of them would give you all of the resources that you would need to be successful. So if I were you, I would pick the one that you would enjoy life the most at.
 
It looks like you have put some thought into this. I would choose Pitt if it was me. I have always heard good things about them, and weighing the clinical, didactic, and cost, I think this is where I would go. I think my second choice would be Maryland. I am assuming you would get in state tuition at Pitt?
 
IMO, you seemed to like Maryland the best from your descriptions– you didn't have anything negative to say about it. However, you have a lot of good choices and I think I would be indecisive on this one as well! Can't really go wrong with any of them. See if you can talk to more students from the respective schools and take it from there. Good luck and congrats!
 
I would go with Pitt my friend. The first year might be very tough. Having friends around is a HUGE plus..
 
That is certainly hard to decide lol...

but my vote goes to either Maryland or PITT but I just read some D2 student from Maryland yesterday and he did not seem so happy about going there. But then again, he may be just exaggerating what goes on in every dental school in a very pessimistic way.

Either way, PITT looks like a very nice and easy transition for you from undergrad.

NYU first deposit is $1500 lol... and it sounds like you don't want to go there other than the fact that it is NYC. You can always settle there / visit there after you're done with dental school. Personally, I did not enjoy the city too much growing up in NY. Too much crap going on there lol. So screw the NYU, and make deposits to other 3! and buy some more time if you can afford it. But that game time decision will have to come one day, so it would be better if you pulled that triggered next few weeks.

Let me know which one you come to decide brother.
 
I really enjoyed Pitt until the student panel, where two of the D4 girls actually said ".(positive stuff for 2 minutes)...do I feel ready to practice? absolutely not. That's why I'm going to try and specialize!"

That, and several of the interviewees I spoke with seemed rather mediocre (which really surprised me), in terms of stats, #of interviews, undergrad institution, etc. I understand the douchery of that statement, but I'm just being honest. I don't want to go to the school where everyone's average Joe friend got in.
 
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DentalGunner said:
I really enjoyed Pitt until the student panel, where two of the D4 girls actually said ".(positive stuff for 2 minutes)...do I feel ready to practice? absolutely not. That's why I'm going to try and specialize!"

That, and several of the interviewees I spoke with seemed rather mediocre (which really surprised me), in terms of stats, #of interviews, undergrad institution, etc. I understand the douchery of that statement, but I'm just being honest. I don't want to go to the school where everyone's average Joe friend got in.
Click to expand...

Oh so it wasn't just me that had that feeling 😀

I thought pitts was a nice school, I liked their campus and all but their attitude... they could seriously use an extra ounce of cockiness or confidence. I mean... hands down comparing curriculums I thought they could beat down umdnj but they didn't really stand out enough in my opinion. Aside from that fact, my interviewer basically admitted that they were inferior to my state school. Seriously?! Is that how you're trying to sell your school to me?

Or maybe I was just imagining things 😕
 
JOoa0ky said:
Oh so it wasn't just me that had that feeling 😀

I thought pitts was a nice school, I liked their campus and all but their attitude... they could seriously use an extra ounce of cockiness or confidence. I mean... hands down comparing curriculums I thought they could beat down umdnj but they didn't really stand out enough in my opinion. Aside from that fact, my interviewer basically admitted that they were inferior to my state school. Seriously?! Is that how you're trying to sell your school to me?

Or maybe I was just imagining things 😕
Click to expand...

Maybe they were just being humble.
 
dantemac said:
Penn: I am also pretty familiar with Penn, being from Philly and working in an internship with all Penn dentists fresh out of school. After talking to Dr. Sheridan I like how the vertical expansion of clinical exposure allows you to start assisting in your D1 year. I thought their externships and selectives were rather amazing. I also really like the organizations available and use of the Philly hospitals and other rotation sites. Also, they carry a good name.

Maryland: I feel so blessed to have gotten in here. Their school was so beautiful, I thought I was in a sci fi movie the way they architecturally designed light to flow into their building - that perfect. I like the integration of technology, obviously being mac and ipad friendly. Their program was also unique with the mini-GPRs and the study abroad options as your externship. Their Perryville retreat looked very nice too, seems like a great way to get away from the city and treat underserved people in rural Maryland.
Click to expand...

One of these two sound the best, at least that's my interpretation based on your descriptions, not to mention YOU sound most impressed with these two. With HPSP, money ain't an issue, so don't even factor it in. I'd go with Penn; Maryland's architecture and mac friendly don't mean that much, they're just small bonuses in my opinion. If you're really interested in externing, why not compare the two in what they offer, and see which sounds better to you.

Best of luck with your scholarship app, hope we both get it. :xf:🙂
 
JOoa0ky said:
Oh so it wasn't just me that had that feeling 😀

I thought pitts was a nice school, I liked their campus and all but their attitude... they could seriously use an extra ounce of cockiness or confidence. I mean... hands down comparing curriculums I thought they could beat down umdnj but they didn't really stand out enough in my opinion. Aside from that fact, my interviewer basically admitted that they were inferior to my state school. Seriously?! Is that how you're trying to sell your school to me?

Or maybe I was just imagining things 😕
Click to expand...

You were so superior to the other applicants that they chose not to extend you an offer of acceptance.
 
DentalGunner said:
I really enjoyed Pitt until the student panel, where two of the D4 girls actually said ".(positive stuff for 2 minutes)...do I feel ready to practice? absolutely not. That's why I'm going to try and specialize!"

That, and several of the interviewees I spoke with seemed rather mediocre (which really surprised me), in terms of stats, #of interviews, undergrad institution, etc. I understand how much of a douche I am, but I'm just being honest. I don't want to go to the school where everyone's average Joe friend got in.
Click to expand...

Edited for you. I couldn't agree more, especially after looking at that twitter page.
 
between pitt and maryland, i was most impressed with maryland. they have the new facilities and technology which is nice, but their program and quality of their clinical education seemed better. tons of patients and chair space, good externships, good location, and the students and faculty i spoke with all loved the school. pitt students and the faculty member that interviewed me said it was a good, but not great school.
 
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I'm gonna have to agree with bache soosool ( mokhlesim) , Pitt has the lowest rate of gunners in the schools you mentioned. My $0.02
 
Golfguy said:
You were so superior to the other applicants that they chose not to extend you an offer of acceptance.
Click to expand...

Please REREAD what I wrote. No where within my post did I mention anything about myself as an applicant. What you did was look at my predents and fabricated an imaginary scenario within your head.



FLOSS UR TEETH said:
Maybe they were just being humble.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are most likely right BUT its more convincing when they say it without a shred of doubt.
 
I've had to make similar decisions in life and just made mine with regard to school choice.

Where ever you go, your going to end up being a dentist. You're going to be good, because otherwise you wouldn't have been given the acceptances to begin with.

You need to go where you feel you will connect with the school, faculty and other students. You need to go where you will flourish! Where you know you can take advantage of the school and all that it can offer. This ONE aspect is critical. You can go to the top school, but if you can't excel there, versus another school that may not be tops, but you can, you will be better for it.

Deep down you will know this answer. Whatever pops first into your head, without doubting it or countering it with other considerations, is your choice.
 
AwesomeTeeth said:
There was some guy here in another thread who was a dental student at Maryland. He said the students don't really help one each other and are gunners. He might be exaggerating about his class but he makes it sound kinda bad. It definitely isn't as nice as it looks. The youtube video was kinda funny especially about installing TV's in the bathrooms.

This is the thread:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=873350
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but that person could not be more wrong about Maryland. I'm having a tough time figuring out who the gunners are. Yes, there are students who want to specialize and do well on exams but I'm finding that the best students in the class are actually the most helpful. We have an active facebook group where everyone helps each other and reminds each other of upcoming assignments and exams. Of course I am bias, but my experience so far has been great. The school is also changing the way that patients are assigned in the clinic. They are now going to implement a block schedule, meaning everyone does the same procedures for weeks at a time. This cuts down on competition for patients and chairs between students.

Bottom line, every school is going to have gunners but why worry about them. worry about yourself and your friends in the class and you will have a great experience.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone.

@Awesome Teeth: Thanks for the post, I did see that thread. However, I believe Penn and Pitt have all the same specialty departments and Maryland and so would take your cases from you at any school. In fact, Pitt's specialty departments are all brand spanking new and probably just as nice as Maryland now. Not sure if that could make or break my decision.

@ Bereno: Yes, in state tuition. No matter how you look at it, even compared to Temple, Pitt is the cheapest school. Def. something to consider...

@mc719: I agree, NYC is expensive to live in. However, it'd be best to live there as a student; metro area dentists there make the least (on average) in the country. Also I'm young and single, best time to be there.

@soosoolhastam: Yeah I agree, friends around would be a great benefit. Plus they would all be D2s with the old exams and study tips and could help me out (if they had any time lol) BUT, is that enough of a reason to go to your school?

My thinking: Your best friends will be your classmates from here on out. Seeing old friends may be tough (everyone with jobs, starting to create families, grad school etc)

@Demps: Yes, NYU's deposits are INSANE. That alone makes it my lowest consideration right now. But it's still in the back of my mind...

@ Dental Gunner, JoOaOky: Yeah, I agree with you. Pitt just doesn't stand out. However, I think the students are still pretty great. We definitely have some world class minds - we just had a Rhodes Scholar this month. Compared to the 70's-80's when Pitt was considered 13th grade, it has come so far. But still, there was that attitude that they are a good but not great school. Just comparing it to other schools, I know it doesn't have much to offer. But at a baseline rate, it definitely doesn't have any less to offer.

@Charmm: Good point. I think I would be a little afraid of Penn because with the military scholarship (hell, even without it) specializing isn't really on my mind. Making prestigious connections isn't really my thing either. I feel like Penn would be gunners galore. I have heard that the two most competitive schools are NYU and Penn, for different reasons. I am VERY laid back and love to help people out, not sure if that is for me.

Any other opinions? thanks so far everyone!
 
I think dental school is what you make of it. Even if you have newer facilities, does that make you learn more? Does that make you have more patients? Does that give you more practice? Nope. I don't care how shiny my drill is, as long as its drilling lol. If you try and learn from every patient, be active in your patient recruitment (if needed), and are proactive in practicing your hand skills, you can get a great education almost anywhere. This is another reason I would choose Pitt. Its not going to have as many gunners, it has has really come up in the world, and has some newer facilities. That, and its the cheapest. As I said before, this combination makes this my first choice lol. Best of luck! Congrats on all the acceptances 👍
 
When I was interviewing at Penn, I felt really impressed with their curriculum, the amount of students that get into specialty programs, the atmosphere between the students and how friendly they all were.

Also, I love how you can do 2 week externships to programs you'd like to interview at and really get a chance to know and shadow at different specialties across the country. I also like how you can go abroad to different countries.

As for the gunners, I think you'll encounter them at any school you go to. From what I hear about Penn at least, it seems like the student body in general is very willing to help you achieve what you want to achieve. I've spoken to a few students and they say the kids that do well, want to do well, but would never do anything to jeopardize another student's work.

My impression of penn was very high and I fell in love with philly! There's so much to do :]. Well this is coming from UCDavis, where there isn't really much to do.

The only downside of a penn education is probably the cost, but with the rates of people specializing, i think it's well worth it!
 
Pitt is definitely a solid school. To me, it has kind of a low key, but great school vibe. It's not a huge name brand school, but chances are if you've heard of it, you have heard great things. It's a small class of 80 so it's easy to meet everyone (including upperclassmen who are helpful).

True, many of the students there didn't come from huge name brand schools. But that's because half of them are in-state (many are from penn state and various small colleges in PA). If you think about it, the state schools usually get the best students from that state. Why? In state tuition! So yes, maybe some of them went to a school you haven't heard of, but they were a top dog/superstar at the school. Out of state students come from more well known institutions usually.

@ dentalgunner: I would not call Pitt a school where everyone's "average Joe friend" got in. Maybe some of those interviewees didn't impress you, but not everyone who is interviews gets accepted right? I'm not sure if you checked last year's class stats. They are definitely not average joe stats. The people I know as current D1s turned down acceptances from Case, Michigan, Temple, Maryland, etc to come to Pitt for their own reasons.

Also, it is becoming more and more common to do a GPR, just because seeing a few patients a day (as is typical at most dental schools) isn't like the real world where the work pace is faster. So when the D4s mentioned they weren't ready...I wasn't blown away or anything

Also, I'm not sure why some of you say Pitt doesn't stand out? Just curious, what is it lacking? What do you wish it had?
 
Bereno said:
I think dental school is what you make of it. Even if you have newer facilities, does that make you learn more? Does that make you have more patients? Does that give you more practice? Nope. I don't care how shiny my drill is, as long as its drilling lol. If you try and learn from every patient, be active in your patient recruitment (if needed), and are proactive in practicing your hand skills, you can get a great education almost anywhere. This is another reason I would choose Pitt. Its not going to have as many gunners, it has has really come up in the world, and has some newer facilities. That, and its the cheapest. As I said before, this combination makes this my first choice lol. Best of luck! Congrats on all the acceptances 👍
Click to expand...

Thanks Bereno. I am not really concerned with how shiny Maryland was, I also thought their patient recruitment and clinical base was really great. A few of the students even joked that it would be a challenge to get used to subpar facilities in real life after going to Maryland.

I guess if I had to pick a school that I subconsciously connected to the most, it would be Penn.
 
dantemac said:
Thanks Bereno. I am not really concerned with how shiny Maryland was, I also thought their patient recruitment and clinical base was really great. A few of the students even joked that it would be a challenge to get used to subpar facilities in real life after going to Maryland.

I guess if I had to pick a school that I subconsciously connected to the most, it would be Penn.
Click to expand...

your subconscious feeling is always the best indication of where you should be!
 
My Internet mother told me to follow my gut feeling and she hasn't been wrong yet 🙂
 
dantemac said:
Thanks Bereno. I am not really concerned with how shiny Maryland was, I also thought their patient recruitment and clinical base was really great. A few of the students even joked that it would be a challenge to get used to subpar facilities in real life after going to Maryland.

I guess if I had to pick a school that I subconsciously connected to the most, it would be Penn.
Click to expand...

Like others have said then, if you feel the best with Penn, Penn it is haha! Once again congrats on so many choices 🙂 👍
 
...What I didn't mention is I felt that way about Maryland too haha. Pitt is just the comfortable choice of the 3. God damn choosing is hard.
 
dantemac said:
...What I didn't mention is I felt that way about Maryland too haha. Pitt is just the comfortable choice of the 3. God damn choosing is hard.
Click to expand...

Oh lord... (throws hands up) lol
 
A classmate made this video, you will to learn everything about the school:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc7acAWlSZA

Cons:

1. classes are too full
2. budget cuts, school lost 13 professors and not replacing them all last year
3. not enough clinic chairs
4. students are too competitive and cut throat (there isn't a great sense of community)
5. hard to find patients and retain patients for specific treatments and requirements
6. too much focus (in my opinion) on research and didatic studies versus clinic
7. too much extra bull**** work, like papers
8. not enough focus on clinical, too much red tape to get through just to get procedures done
9. tough perio department

I am a D2 student at Maryland. Its shiny outside but heartless inside.
 
supermax said:
A classmate made this video, you will to learn everything about the school:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fc7acAWlSZA

Cons:

1. classes are too full
2. budget cuts, school lost 13 professors and not replacing them all last year
3. not enough clinic chairs
4. students are too competitive and cut throat (there isn't a great sense of community)
5. hard to find patients and retain patients for specific treatments and requirements
6. too much focus (in my opinion) on research and didatic studies versus clinic
7. too much extra bull**** work, like papers
8. not enough focus on clinical, too much red tape to get through just to get procedures done
9. tough perio department

I am a D2 student at Maryland. Its shiny outside but heartless inside.
Click to expand...


damn. guess i'm glad i'm choosing another program. strange, but i've heard that the kids at maryland are more cut throat than at schools like columbia.
 
Yeah, I am a people person, not sure if I would like a competitive environment.
 
JOoa0ky said:
When at the end of your wits... you flip a coin and if its more than 2 choices... then you roll a #2 pencil. Has not failed me yet during a test!
Click to expand...

I will try this tactic on my biochem test this week. I will let you know how it goes haha 👍
 
dantemac said:
Yeah, I am a people person, not sure if I would like a competitive environment.
Click to expand...

The competition is huge so don't expect any curves. At least 14 students had to attend the summer remediation program this past summer. We take our first board exams after first year.
 
Most obviously, you should dump Pitt as soon as possible so that I have a better chance of getting in there 😉 At least I'm honest...?

But seriously, if Maryland and Penn made your heart sing, it should be down to those two. Both are great schools with awesome reputations and strong clinical and research programs. I've heard from some that Penn is full of gunners, but I've also heard that about Maryland. And then some people say that neither one has gunners. Personally, I'd pick Maryland because spending two years in a dungeon doesn't seem fun. Also, the Baltimore Aquarium is INSANELY AWESOME and vastly superior to the Camden Aquarium, which is very close to Philly. THESE ARE IMPORTANT FACTORS TO CONSIDER.

Congratulations! You got into some amazing schools and should be very proud of yourself!
 
I would say to go with either Maryland or Penn! Pitt is an awesome school, and I really liked it there as well, but I just think it'd be a lot of fun to switch things up and step out of your comfort zone a little. Pittsburgh itself is a super great city, but you may regret never trying something new in a few years. Plus, now you'll have contacts in two places and options to start working in either city after you graduate. Good luck and congrats!!

ps. I'm also considering Maryland and Penn, maybe we'll be classmates!!
 
DMDomer12 said:
I would say to go with either Maryland or Penn! Pitt is an awesome school, and I really liked it there as well, but I just think it'd be a lot of fun to switch things up and step out of your comfort zone a little. Pittsburgh itself is a super great city, but you may regret never trying something new in a few years. Plus, now you'll have contacts in two places and options to start working in either city after you graduate. Good luck and congrats!!

ps. I'm also considering Maryland and Penn, maybe we'll be classmates!!
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is what I was thinking, I kind of want a new adventure in a new city!
 
dantemac said:
Yeah, this is what I was thinking, I kind of want a new adventure in a new city!
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I wanna go to PITT so bad lol... get the heck out of NY for once. go to PENN and gimme your spot @ PITT dantemac lol! 😉

Let me know your final decision bro
 
Actually NYU has been weighing on my heart lately. I have been in Pittsburgh and Philly me entire lives, and Baltimore is pretty similar. I think New York City would be an awesome adventure. I just don't know if I could justify a $5,000 deposit and then paying to live in Manhattan. That could get crazy expensive.
 
dantemac said:
Actually NYU has been weighing on my heart lately. I have been in Pittsburgh and Philly me entire lives, and Baltimore is pretty similar. I think New York City would be an awesome adventure. I just don't know if I could justify a $5,000 deposit and then paying to live in Manhattan. That could get crazy expensive.
Click to expand...

If you end up choosing NYU though, make sure to look for a place that is commutable distance at a decent price. Cost for rent is crazy around NYU.
 
futuredoc1004 said:
If I were you, Pitt would be my first choice.
Click to expand...

I am strongly leaning towards Pitt at this point. A lot of people have been telling me how important it is to be comfortable in your environment and with friends to surround you.
 
Glad to see you made a decision 🙂.
 
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