MSMFT or MA Counseling Psych - Northwestern or Roosevelt University?

[Cydpsyche]

Hi,

Looking at three master's programs at two different schools. Northwestern University offers a MSMFT and an MA Counseling Psychology.

The MA Counseling psych is accredited CACREP. Both programs at Northwestern offer clinical hours at The Family Institute. You do wind up with two years of clinical hours, instead of one like many programs. There are 24 courses in the program.

Tuition in the MA Counseling Psychology at Northwestern are $15K a quarter. If you do the math it totals $120K. Expensive.

The MSMFT Master's program is also 24 courses. The license is LMFT and the school states the Program is accredited by the Commission on Accreditation for Marriage and Family Therapy Education (COAMFTE) of the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy (AAMFT), The estimated cost is $96K. Also expensive.

Roosevelt University states on their website for Clinical Mental Health Counseling:

This degree program prepares students for work as professional counselors and to meet the comprehensive mental health needs of diverse clients. The program satisfies academic requirements for licensure as a professional counselor and clinical professional counselor in the State of Illinois. The program also meets the academic requirements for national certification in mental health counseling (CCMHC) and for national counselor certification (NCC).

Tuition is $17,850 per semester or $71K total for two years- not exactly cheap either.

I have a few questions maybe someone out there can answer.

First- here are 3 different master's programs accredited in 3 different ways. This is rather confusing. Marriage and Family Therapy I can understand as distinct from other accreditation. What is the difference between CACREP and CCMHC? I have heard about concerns that a master's program meets CACREP criteria, and I have heard of the National Counselor Certification- but I really do not understand the nuances here. Is one accreditation superior to the other?

Also- it seems to me that Northwestern carries more gravitas. I don't think Roosevelt is a bad school by any means, but there are two high prestige universities in the Chicago area- University of Chicago and Northwestern both have a lot of clout.

Although I have gone around in circles considering Psy D as well. I really don't want to risk ISPP at Argosy. It sounds like one winds up as barely above a laughing stock. So I now decide all things considered a Master's degree is a better fit.

I would appreciate any comments or insights about any of the 3 programs. I am wondering how good Roosevelt is in matching students to practicum sites. At Northwestern I would have no concern about that because both programs use The Family Institute and other locations for clinical hours.

I can self-fund either program, but that doesn't mean I am "rich" and "bored". I have been working in clinical settings and studying psychology formally and informally for over a decade. I have a sincere desire to be in clinical practice.

If anyone thought I was a shill for Argosy in my last post- clearly I am NOT. Unless now I am a shill for Northwestern?

Any help with a cost/benefit analysis from those in the field would be great. And if anyone knows the significance of the differing accreditation that would be nice to learn about. Thanks for the help.

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[audreyp513]

I'm in the same boat with you, well concerning Northwestern, that is.
I'm planning on applying for MFT program there, but the cost of the school is a little disheartening for me.
I was also wondering if it's worth it to drop 96K for the 2 year program there.
But I read that the graduates from MFT at Northwestern have landed in job after graduation (100% rate), so this is a good news to hear..

I would also love to hear other's opinion about this.

 

[PinkPsych]

I can speak highly of the MA in Counseling Psych program at Northwestern, although I have some bias. My experience is that it is well respected and provides rigorous training. I would be willing to speak on PM with either of you. Best wishes on a successful start to your careers.

 

[Cydpsyche]

Last week I met with a friend who holds an LCPC and has worked in the field for decades. The interesting perspective she had was there was no shame in a Psy D from Argosy, but (as I suspected) a master's from Northwestern would bring a lot of added value.

I am leaning towards Northwestern for a number of reasons. One issue for me is that I would need to wait until Fall 2014 to start the program and I would have really loved to start right after the new year. Perhaps they will have some flexibility and allow me to become involved. It doesn't hurt to ask. BTW- I am attending the open house for MFT on August 16th. I am also hoping I will be ble to meet with the Education Coordinator for the Counseling Psychology program as well.

All things considered, I think if you can get into Northwestern it should be viewed as an investment in yourself. Best of luck

 

[SmoothJams]

I think it's important to consider what type of salary you will be making as a master's level therapist after graduation and how manageable your student loans will be. Mid-career median pay for a master's level therapist is around $53K.

$71K-$96K in student loans (most likely funded with private student loans) is going to be difficult to manage on a mid-$50K salary.

The VA is a great employer (if not the best) for LCP/LPCCs but the starting salary for LCP/LPCC is GS-9 to Gs12 so generally around $47K-$54K. VA positions for master's level clinicians can range up to the high $70s and $80s eventually, but that is only after many years of experience or a long time working in the VA and making your way up the pay scale. VA positions are also incredibly competitive.

Getting the necessary supervised clinical hours to get your LPC license, or to practice independently as an LPCC can also be a struggle. That process can take up to 2 years and in that time, most won't be making a salary during that time that can deal with $70K+ of student loans. If you are thinking about private practice, there are also issues of reimbursement rates, competition from MSWs, and the general expenses of starting & maintaining a small business. All of which will cut into your earnings while you try to pay back all of those loans.

MSW programs seem to be the best bet in terms of master's level degrees for those who want to practice therapy. The social work masters has more options and is a very professionally flexible and respected degree. MSW seem to have an easier go of it with getting licensed and getting jobs that can provide the necessary supervised clinical hours and that command slightly higher pay. The issue there is the difference in therapy training in an MSW program compared to a full counseling masters. Social workers have lobbied quite effectively for independent clinical practice, but that doesn't mean that the current training models in MSW programs will leave you fully prepared for clinical work or using EBTs.

Just some things to think about before jumping into an expensive masters program. Lots of folks who are interested in mental health careers see the degree, but don't accurately consider (or know what to consider) in terms of what happens after school...with lots of student loan debt. Students may get jobs after graduation, but that doesn't tell you how much they are making and if their debt is manageable and what their career prospects are. The Northwestern name is great, but prestige is not a reason to go into debt for a degree that has a somewhat limited earning capacity.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I was also wondering if it's worth it to drop 96K for the 2 year program there.

No.

Dropping $50k+ on a MA or MS program is not advisable given the salaries out there. Additionally, the interest on $100k is brutal (6.8% for fed loans, and even more for private).

 

[Cydpsyche]

Thanks for the input. I have considered MSW, but there are some issues for me.

One, I would need to go into the city (Chicago) When value is framed in a comprehensive way such as time spent commuting and the additional expenses of the city I am sure that my quality of life would be lower and stress levels higher.

Two, I am also a mother and that is always part of the equation for me.

Three, I don't need to take out loans for graduate school because I am able to fund the educational expense myself.

Four, as someone mentioned I don't believe I would actually be obtaining training in my areas of interest- which are decidedly NOT social work.

There is still a cost-benefit component to be considered. If I framed everything in terms of how much money I can make versus the huge investment in graduate education I would simply not do it. Not everything can be measured in that lens.

It is my belief that in our post-modern world it is imperative to think of oneself as an entrepreneur. There is no security or guarantees. For me, it makes sense to put the investment of graduate school into an "it is what it is" category and focus on what I can do with that education, which is create a wonderful healing environment with other like-minded mental health professionals. Idealistic? Maybe. But I know people in the field who are doing it.

Rather than looking at it through a lens of direct return on dollars spent, I view it as the cost to get to a place where I am able to work in an optimal self-directed environment (that sounds great to me). The only people who make a good living in this field are very self-directed. I realize that my thinking is unconventional, but being true to oneself is important.

And I am very fortunate to be married to someone who is able and willing to make the investment in a graduate education for me because he wants to be supportive. My adult undergraduate experience was a much different picture and I know and appreciate how difficult it can be. Just sifting through the options and trying to make a mindful decision.

Thanks for the input.

 

[SmoothJams]

First- here are 3 different master's programs accredited in 3 different ways. This is rather confusing. Marriage and Family Therapy I can understand as distinct from other accreditation. What is the difference between CACREP and CCMHC? I have heard about concerns that a master's program meets CACREP criteria, and I have heard of the National Counselor Certification- but I really do not understand the nuances here. Is one accreditation superior to the other?

Here is a site that provides a quick and dirty breakdown on this:

http://txstudentcounselor.wordpress...non-cacrep-counseling-programs-and-licensure/