MSUCOM and tips

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docflanny

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First off I'd like to congratulate anyone who has recently been accepted to MSUCOM. I can't wait to meet everyone else and to live in East Lansing. It's going to be a nice change.

I'd like to poll those starting next year and any current students about the following:

1) do you have a personal computer? if so, do you use it on a regular basis for classes?

2) if you're just starting next year is anyone else moving into Club Meridian Apts?

3) for upperclassman: what are some worthwhile extracurricular clubs to join? Also, are there any surprises that you've adapted to after having started med school?

Please add any other comments or questions as it applies to MSU or E. Lansing.



------------------
Matt Flannigan
MSU Class of 2004

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Hi docflanny.

I have been accepted to MSUCOM and at this time plan to attend. Congradulations to you also! As for myself, I recently bought a computer. I will wait and take advantage of the $3,000 loan MSUCOM offers to buy a Palm Pilot or laptop, but not until third year rotations. On your tour did you get a chance to see the computer resource center at MSUCOM? I thought it was very well equipped. At the time of my tour, classes were out for the day and there were many computers open for use (at least that particular day).

I haven't heard of the apartments you mentioned. Are they ones you'd recommend? Where are they located? I heard many students opt for more expensive apts to share with others. I checked out some by Lansing Mall with the tip DocGibby gave to me about rent.net. However, still undecided on living arrangements. The tour guide we had said that the trains come through all day and all night. He lives further away because of the noise from the trains. Never thought I'd have to think about that sort of thing! Please post if you hear of any decent places to live close to campus. By the way, where did you live before. Big or small city. Just curious.

Reddy



[This message has been edited by reddy (edited 03-30-2000).]
 
reddy-
I'm an undergrad at MSU and one of the years I lived in a dorm very near the train tracks. I don't think this is a consideration at all. After awhile it just becomes a background noise that doesn't bother you. In fact, I actually came to enjoy the sound of the trains.

I wouldn't make my living decision based on proximity to the trains....you won't be deficient in sleep or study time b/c of it.

Good luck with your apartment search and at MSUCOM-- maybe I'll see you there!
 
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Hey is this where all the MSUers hang out? So Reddy, I see you asked them about the train. I thought it was pretty funny when I first found out. What's going on Docflanny, fellow interviewing partner? I'll be picking up my laptop around late July or August. I'm holding out for the most technology at a bargin price. I'm waiting for the 500 mhz models to get down to the 1500 mark. I've got my name in on an apt at Trapper's Cove. Prestigious living at an affordable price and a nice view (or something like that?). By the way, Reddy, there's also no train and it's less than 10 minutes from campus and it's less than one mile from Meijers, Target, McDonalds, Burger King, Taco Bell, Some chinese place, gas and any other shopping desire.
 
Hey everyone! Thanks for responding. I'm getting more than a little anxious to get this ball rolling. Working 50-60 hrs/wk for $9/hr is getting a little boring.

About the apartments: Club Meridian is a little costly, but as you mentioned I'm going to share the cost with another MSUCOM student. The split will be $375, but it has many ammenities: sauna, whirlpool, basketball court, tennis court, workout center, fireplace, vaulted ceilings, washer/dryer in the apt, etc. If you can't tell, I'm very excited about moving in. I'm not sure of the exact location off hand but it's in Okemos and about 5 min from school driving.

DocGibby make sure you ask people of their opinions regarding laptops, if you've never owned one before. I had a laptop for four years. At first it was cool to carry around, but later became a pain. If I were to do it all over again I'd definitely opt for a desktop.

Originally, I'm from a suburb of St. Paul, MN but for the last six years I've lived in Grand Rapids, MI. I know a few students who live at Berrytree Apts. which is very close to the tracks, but he also would agree that after a while you don't notice the noise.

I would definitely suggest living with someone else it will help you cut down on costs and afford you the option to seek better equipped apts. I got lucky with finding a roommate. He graduated from Aquinas with me and also was accepted at MSUCOM. If you guys are around E.Lansing a couple weeks before orientation we should all get together for drinks and maybe a little b-ball and tennis.

Talk to you all later.



------------------
Matt Flannigan
MSU Class of 2004
 
Hey docflanny,

That sounds all nice, but do you have a majestic view? I thought not! Hey I was on the tennis team in high school so I'll take you on. However, lately I've taken those skills and applied them to my new stress relieving sport, raquet ball. I'll be looking for a few good players (and not so good ones). I've lived with this dinosaur of a desktop for too long. I think the time is right to go portable. Then I can just store it on a shelf or take it to the library or something and I don't have to invest in a desk. My apt's gonna run me around $530 (whirpool and sauna not included, but if I feel the need I'll just spin around in the tub really fast and turn my FREE heat on full blast), but I got a pool so take that. Ahhhh the sweet price of single living.
 
Docgibby,

you're making me bust a gut with your homemade whirlpool action. I'll definitely take you on in tennis or raquetball in the fall. I'm not very talented in either, but I enjoy just about any sport.

So how was your Wayne State interview? Are you somewhat serious about going there?

Talk to you later.

------------------
Matt Flannigan
MSU Class of 2004
 
When are all you guys moving up to school?
 
Good question. I'm wondering also how soon before classes start do I need to secure an apartment. I am living out of state at the moment and have to make a trip back to find a place.

You guys have convinced me, I'm not going to worry about the trains.

DOATC2B-will you be applying this year?

Reddy

[This message has been edited by reddy (edited 03-30-2000).]
 
Hi reddy. I was accepted into the class for this fall.
smile.gif
But I haven't decided on the apartment situation yet. I think I'll have to wait until after finals- it's just too much to do.

What state do you live in now?
 
docflanny,

My interview at Wayne State is still about two weeks away. I'm definitely considering it, but in all honesty my chances of getting an offer are pretty slim so I'm not betting on it. If and only if I get an actual offer will I begin to contemplate such a dilema. Going to State would rock, but the harsh reality is that by going to Wayne I'll save myself around $70,000 (minimum) in loans and accumulated interest upon graduation (ouch!!). Not to mention the interest that kicks in after the government's "generous" 6 month grace period expires. It makes my head spin just thinking about it. Yes, I know I'll make it back eventually, but when? Alot is dependent on what I practice, where and how many hours. I'd like to get out of the hole before I'm 40 (i'm currently 22). Meantime, I'll want a house, a car, 2.5 kids, a dog, white picket fence, etc...

As for move in times. I'm waiting for state to send the official packet with the start dates for orientation amoung other useful info. Last I heard there was consideration for a 2 week orientation before school which would put us at about Aug 15 (give or take). I have still not heard if this has been set in stone. Orientation last year was only one week. I would think moving in about a week before the start of orientation would be ideal. Those packets, I'm told, will arrive sometime in April. I'll probably set up shop about the 2nd week of August.

[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 04-01-2000).]
 
Hey MSU'ers,

I thought Wayne's tuition was comparable to MSUCOM(~$10,400). I'm not trying to be a smart a** with this question. Were you thinking of living at home for the first 2 years to save most of that money? I'm just curious because....maybe I missed something. I too believe I'll remain on the wait list at Wayne and have decided to cross that bridge when I come to it if by chance I do get in.

I think you're right about orientation at MSUCOM. Admissions had told me it will be Aug 17-25 with the white coat ceremony being near the end of orientation week. Classes are set to start on Aug 28th. I suspect as you that we should be getting a packet any time soon now.

Reddy

[This message has been edited by reddy (edited 04-01-2000).]
 
Actually Reddy, your figure is about correct for Wayne State, but tuition will run ya around 16,000 at MSU (not including books and equipment). Yes I would try to live at home and commute, at least the first year (or till I can't take it anymore, then I'd move closer). Saving myself another 8,000/year in living expenses. It adds up quickly.

[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 04-02-2000).]
 
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Dear Docgibby and reddy, I was just wondering
why exactly you wanted to be DO's?? It seems that your love for the philosophy can not be that strong if you would go to an M.D. school merely based on tuition rates. I think that the love for an art should be deeper than the change in your pockets. Perhaps your love for allopathic school should lead you there and leave the doors of the osteopathic schools open for those of us who truly care about the "art of healing; mind, body, and spirit". Docgibby, you know who I am, I leave this open for your comments. May you both make your choice according to your heart, not according to where the acceptance letter comes from. By the way, I also feel that D.O.'s who are in the profession only because they could not get into MD school weaken the profession significantly. I hope that I have not been too harsh.
 
milleniumhc,

First of all, I haven't talked to you in a while how's things been? I haven't seen Peds on the posting board in months either. Tell her I said hi.

(by the way let me appologize right now if I sound a bit harsh in my response, but you kinda got the ole blood boiling a bit
smile.gif


Now lets talk about this DO/MD "issue" that some people just can't seem to get over. I want to be a doctor and that's it. Simple as that. I respect both Osteopathic and Allopathic medicine for their similar yet uniquely different approaches to the healing process. Both MD schools and DO schools see themselves as on par with each other dispite the self-defeating arguements which plague both sides of this tired "issue." In the field, both MDs and DOs serve together at hospitals and clinics, family practices, rural practices, etc.. and come to rely on each other for one another's knowledge, expertise and experiences. During my interviews I made it crystal clear that I applied to both DO and MD schools. I explained my reasons for applying to both along with the merits of both and ultimately how I would decide where I wanted to begin my career in medicine. My responses were not narrow minded, but open minded and knowlegeable. The admissions committees respect this and so should you, because they understand the difficulties involved with getting into medical school DO or MD. I think it's past time for people on both sides of the fence to get off their high horses and start discussing better ways we can both work together and maintain each others distinctiveness rather than forming seperate camps to sneer at one another. Your quick choice to insinuate that Reddy and I (and many others) are simply MD wannabe's is extremely disheartening (especially since you of all people know me better then that) and incredibly insulting. Try reading all the posts and not just the one or two which catch your eye. In my posts regarding this issue I have remained realistic, honest, informed, inquizitive, and most of all open-minded. I suggest you do the same.

I wanted to stay in Michigan so I can stay near my family and friends. In addition, if you have a choice between 2 schools (DO or MD) one local which saves you 70,000 in loans and interest the other 2 hours away and 3 times as expensive and similar education which would you choose? If you think that the only decision you have to consider regarding medical school is which two letters you'd rather have after your name, then think again. There's tuition expenses, living expenses, equipment expenses, book expenses, individual program concentrations, quality of resources, faculty/student ratios, research/no research, location, effects on family and marriage for some, effects on friends, affiliated hospitals and programs, available hospital rotations, aquiring loans, interest on those loans, residencies, atmosphere. Someone help me out, am I forgeting anything?

[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 04-03-2000).]

[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 04-03-2000).]
 
DocGibby that was an excellent account. Perfect. That is, I feel exactly the same way. I believe total indebtedness is one of those factors to be considered. I apologize also for any unduly harshness in my response below.

milleniumhc-I don't take offense to your comment by the way. I respect your commitment to the DO profession. I guess you'll have to take my word for it, but I don't think of myself as an MD wanabe. If I was making a choice between 2 DO schools(both programs being fairly equal in other respects) based on tuition would this then be a different situation? I have always had a DO as my family physician. If I had MD after my name or DO-it would not make any difference to me. I also would like to live in Michigan and applied to several programs to maximize my chances. Either way, I feel very lucky just to have been accepted to medical school.



[This message has been edited by reddy (edited 04-04-2000).]
 
WAHOO!!!!! CONGRATULATIONS TO THE MSU BASKETBALL TEAM ON THEIR NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP! It's a great day to be a spartan!
 
DocG and reddy,
First of all, I believe that both of you are forgetting the one major detail in all of this arguing....the education for DO's and MD's IS NOT THE SAME. You have to come to realize that I am definitely not pitting MD's against DO's! I respect both professions, both SEPARATE professions. The truth is, that DO students (according to several articles I read and the faculty where I interviewed at) have been in an uproar for the past five or so years that they were being "cheated" out of the true DO training because it was migrating closer and closer to the MD training. It was to the point that they were barely separable. Now, DO education has begun to steadly climb back towards total body medicine and OMT. Therefore, I feel that I have corrected your judgement Docgibby that they are one in the same profession. Second of all, I can't believe that if you REALLY, TRULY, wanted to be an osteopath that money is going to sway you one way or another. Money should not be an issue. Read the percentage of people from each school that default on their loans. Some of the highest tuition rates have the lowest defaults of loans. Therefore, if you are able to keep track of your money wisely, whether or not you go to a school (such as MSU) over Wayne is give or take one Corvette. I guess that my goal in life is not to drive the best car or have the best house. It is to serve people in the best way that I feel is possible. I know that I can do this the best by being an osteopath. If you feel that you can do your best by being an allopath then that is wonderful too. Grouping the two professions together is what gave osteopaths the reputation of "MD wannabees". Do you know of any other professions that compete like that? No, because they have kept themselves separate from other professions. They are different and individualistic. That is why I am so upset about this. I feel that bouncing between osteopathy and allopathic medicine is ridiculous. The two professions should not be compared. They should exist as what they originally were made to be: two SEPARATE BUT EQUAL professions. Gibby, I think that you know what you really want to be. I can tell from things that I have heard you say. I hope that I am wrong though, that you are not just "falling back" on osteopathy because it is what is available to you. My hope for the Osteopathic profession is that all of the up and coming doctors are going to practice it with a true heart. Your crack at me not being openminded is laughable. Especially because you actually KNOW me. If I wasn't openminded than I would probably confer on either osteopathy or allopathy as being the "correct profession". However, I don't feel that way. I feel that both of them have their own place in the world of medicine. Perhaps I could peg you as indecisive, but I won't. Unless you told me that if you didn't get into med school that you would maybe be an RT, or a PT, or maybe an optometrist, or a chiropractor, or a dietician, or a PA, or a nurse.....because they are all the same you know. They all work with patients in a hospital. Ofcourse, so do DO's and MD's. So maybe THEY ARE ALL THE SAME........

[This message has been edited by milleniumhc (edited 04-04-2000).]
 
milleniumhc,

Why do you continue to take things out of context!? When did I say they were the same? I said they were smiliar yet uniquely different. Then you present evidence that they are the same but things are just now changing. Once again, something I never claimed. Then there's this money issue. I thought my rather sarcastic list would drive the point home. There are MANY!!! factors to consider regarding any school. Why do you continue to read in between lines looking for some hidden meaning. When did I say I wanted 2 corvettes or some huge expensive house? Where are you getting this stuff, and what does loan default facts about other students have to do with any of this. My God! Why am I wasting time on this arguement.

I was simply asked if I would consider an offer from Wayne. I then responded by saying yes I would CONSIDER it and that ONE! consideration would be the financial burden. I didnt' feel it necessary to write a 5 page response on all the various aspects of my consideration so I picked one. Reddy then questioned how much tuition was and then you go balistic
smile.gif
.

Errrrrrrrr! I'm sick of this arguement. We're obviously never going to see eye to eye on this nonsense. I guess I'll just agree to disagree with you on all points.

[This message has been edited by DocGibby (edited 04-04-2000).]
 
Milleniumhc- issues?

Repent!! Repent Doc Gibby!!! How could you ever betray osteopathy!! You say you'll save 80k at Wayne with tuition, living and interest. Not good enough. Only a savings of a 150k may excuse you.

Reality check. 80k is more than enough reason. Milleniumhc-who says he'll use that savings to buy a sportscar? If invetsed properly in just B+ mutual funds that 80K should double every 5 yrs. Ever hear of compound interest? 5yrs= 160K, 10yrs= 320k, 15yrs= 640k....after 30yrs= over 5 million dollars. Retire? Gift your heirs? Start a foundation?

Wake up!!!
 
Ooops!! Sorry. I read DocGibby's post wrong. He said he is only going to save 70K, not 80K, by going to Wayne. Well, that changes everything.
 
LOL! Actually the $70,000 calculation was what I'd owe upon graduation. The interest will start piling up after that during my residency and beyond. Thanks to Mr. Greenspan's infinite wisdom, I'm sure those stafford loans will hit their maximum 8.25% cap just in time. Which will then cost ruffly $20,000 in interest each year. I think I'll be tooling around town in a nice Ford Pinto for some time.
 
For other points on this topic.....check out this website
www.medschool.com

Got to Forums then Osteopathic-Specific Discussion then "Will the osteopathic profession die?"

Sorry, the specific web address didn't come up correctly on this thread

Reddy



[This message has been edited by reddy (edited 04-05-2000).]
 
I am finding myself agreeing with milleniumhc in that decisions about a difference in philosophies and what you truly believe in as a medical education should not be based on finances. I was not born yesterday, I know expenses can be tough, however, we all know we will be in some kind of debt when we are done, if you want to be in less debt, so be it. I feel that my decision will be more on what I believe to be the right philosophy for my future in giving care to patients, not in how little or how much debt I am going to accumulate. I want to be an osteopathic physician because I truly believe in the profession and plan on practicing OMT. Maybe we all should read the last chapter in Gevitz's DO's again where it talks about the people who are really going to take the osteopathic profession further are those who truly have a passion for it and who practice it.
 
Hmmmmm.....I am glad that money is so important to everyone. I am so glad that the word "patient care" was mentioned so many times in "unsure" (shall I guess what you are UNSURE about??) and docgibby's and reddy's ever so snide replies to me. PLEASE!!!!! Why is everything always about money?? If that is why you want to be a doctor, I feel sorry for your patients. And DocG, if they are truly separate professions (in your eyes) then how can you want to be BOTH?? That is my question in all of this arguing. I wanted to be a veterinarian when I was younger, but I chose ONE profession. I am not going to just bounce between whichever I got accepted to. They are separate professions. By the way, you change your mind a lot during arguments. It leads to inconsistent conversations.
 
I think Unsure has some issues that need to be dealt with..what is up with the comments?
 
Yeah, "unsure" this was "constructive criticism" not a forum for rude and obnoxious comments.
 
Yes my post was sarcastic, but I think it had many valid points. It was in response to you "holier than thou" comments to DocGibby. If you cannot see the importance of a $70,000 savings then congratulations- you must be independently wealthy. If not, I "constructively" suggest you take personal finances more seriously.

There is nothing wrong with wealth. Wealth gives people options, ie. the freedom to do what they want. As I thought I made clear, choosing to save 70K is completely reasonable (in fact, the responsible thing to do). Unfortunately, because physicians do make a good salary, they often do not appreciate the "value" in savings. I've seen many docs live above their means, drive a fancy car, while having virtually nothing in their IRA.
By the way, I'm "unsure" about which DO school I will be attending.

[This message has been edited by unsure (edited 04-05-2000).]
 
I don't think milleniumhc was saying that finances don't matter at all...but she was implying that true beliefs and values should weigh more than money. I think she was trying to make it clear that just because a school may be cheaper, that shouldn't be the basis for changing your beliefs and philosophies on medicine. I can say that I would go to a more expensive school if I thought that it followed my beliefs more, and I do appreciate money and am not independently wealthy, however I appreciate my heart more than money and I tend to follow that more often...
 
Thank you DO1DAY, I don't think that I could have said it better myself......Exactly, beliefs and values should way much higher up on the list than money. Unsure,I AM NOT HOLIER THAN THOU, thank you very much, I just have very strong beliefs. I believe (as I have said one million other times already) that DO's and MD's belong to different professions. How can you bounce between two professions like a yo-yo? If finances are so important to you than why don't YOU save money and go into engineering?? It is a much cheaper profession to get into and they make great money too. If you were so worried about saving money you definitely would not be going to medical school!!! That is almost laughable!

[This message has been edited by milleniumhc (edited 04-06-2000).]
 
Why are you being so obtuse? Are you unable to see the importance of acting prudently?

If you can really only see this issue in terms of black or white, right or wrong- then I am envious. Life must be simple for you.



[This message has been edited by unsure (edited 04-06-2000).]
 
You didn't answer my question.....if you are trying to save money, then why are
you attending medical school??? If being sure of what I want to do with my life
is considered seeing things in black and white then I guess that I am guilty of
that. I don't see that as a bad thing. Why do you have such a hang up on money?
Money will never, ever, make you fulfilled. If that is what you think, then you
have another thing coming. Money is an object with which we must all use to go
through life. Not a means of happiness. I don't understand why you still don't
comprehend the side that I am taking in all of this ignorant arguing. I understand
your point (and correct me if I am wrong)....you think that money is a good consideration
when choosing a school. I agree. I DON'T agree that money is a good reason to go
to an MD school over a DO school. If you really, truly, want to be a DO then you
wouldn't even apply to an MD school, right?? I really, truly, want to be a doctor (DO)
therefore, I did not apply to dental school too. That is how different I feel the
two professions are. Now maybe you can understand my argument and quit with your
insults. I only WISH that life were as simple as you say I think that it is.....
By the way, I feel that all doctors can make enough money that they will be able to
repay their loans and live comfortable lives, no matter where you go to school.
 
Yes, that's because I've been ignoring your question. My reasons for entering medicine are just that, my reasons.

I am not so insecure that I need to receive affirmation from complete strangers as to the worthiness of my commitment to osteopathic medicine. Nor is my self-esteem so low that I feel it necesary to question another's commitment to medicine. Or for that matter presume that my committment to medicine is greater than another's.

The only purpose in my post was to point out, albeit in a sarcastic manner, that DocGibby's consideration of cost in making his decision is completely reasonable (I even illustrated the point by showing the power of compound interest). You however, made it abundantly clear that you regard this as an invalid reason. What bothered me was that you then had the audacity to insinuate that if someone does -they must lack some osteopathic ethical ideal- which you of course embody.

Personally, I could never be so presumptuous as to question another's commitment to medicine (osteopathic or otherwise). I suggest in the future that you practice more humility- it's a virtue.

[This message has been edited by unsure (edited 04-06-2000).]
 
Hello everyone, I'm new to this chatroom. I decided to join in on thi little discussion because this conflict about DO vs MD is is fundamentally wrong. Docgibby, there is a distinct fundamental difference between osteopathy and allopathy; philosophy. If I have to explain the differences to you, maybe you shouldn't be applying to either discipline. Settling for a school based upon acceptance and tuition describes much about your character, and I dont even know you. Applying to either school because quote, "I want to be a doctor" is the reason the osteopathic philosophy was bastardized in the first place. If you are applying to both because you want to be a doctor, maybe you should just stay wherever you graduated from, get your ph.D., and be the doctor you've always wanted to be. From your postings, this is exactly why you are indecisive in your choice. Also, last I checked, since you seem so focused on the monetary component, there aren't too many doctors out there living check to check. Would you sell your soul to the devil to get into heaven faster? That's philosophy, I suggest you ask yourself what kind of doctor you want to be, a mind, body, spirit physician, or a glorified pharmacist.
Now, as for this unsure fellow, maybe you should become a businessman, because you have an extremely good sense of money combined with absolutely no people skills whatsoever. Remember my name UNSURE, because I represent everything you are not. The best retort you could muster was some adolescent cutdown which has no place in the professional arena. Maybe you should ask your parents first before you submit another reply.

 
To millenium and DO1day,

Personal philosophy is an important part of life. Unfortunately, in our world today, there are those who sacrifice philosophy for the sake of money, power, fame, etc. As I'm sure you are well aware, osteopathic medicine is different because it's based on philosophy. Some people don't belong in DO school for this reason. I chose my school because it offered the best education for my philosophy, a philosophy rooted in the power of the human body, including the aspects which science can neither prove nor control. I applaud your sense of loyalty to the profession. As time and experience will prove, love of life, health, and nature will bring far greater joy than the almighty buck. There's a reason medical doctors are among the highest in suicide rate. UNSURE says he has his reasons for attending medical school, however he is quick to point out that he refuses to share them, perhaps for lack of validity. Believe me, I struggle daily with people in the profession becoming doctors for all the wrong reasons. We can't tell people how to think, even though that's what most people really want.
 
Unsure, Ah! your sarcasm is invigorating. I see that you (still) haven't gotten
the point. How is one to have osteopathic ideals if THEY DON'T EVEN ATTEND AN
OSTEOPATHIC SCHOOL?? Questioning a future colleagues dedication to their work
is definitely not insecurity. It is a hope that my future profession will
contain people who are excellent at their profession. Let me pose a question
to you.....Did you ever have a professor who was particularly terrible at
teaching? I bet that they excelled in their lab work. You know why they were
such horrible teachers? Because they wanted to be scientists, teaching just comes
with the territory. Do you understand what I am saying? In perfect English, a
person who does not love what they are doing will not be particularly good at it.
If you do not believe in the depths of Osteopathy then you will not practice
them. Therefore, you should just attend an allopathic school. You must believe
that the fundamentals of either school are very similar or else you would not
believe that it is sensible to only choose one. You are incredibly obnoxious
by saying that I think that I "embody" the osteopath. I just hope that my
colleagues one day love our work as much as I do. I have pointed this out
several times. You just never pay attention.
Thank you "completely sure" for paying attention to my points. "unsure" seems to
do his share of reading between the lines. I agree, I am sure that the validity
in his wanting to be a doctor is questionable....that is why "he" can not mention
them....he is too good for that. I also agree that his people skills exist in the
zero area. He can't seem to squeeze even one sentence out that is not rude or
sarcastic. God help his patients one day.....
 
No, you still haven't gotten the point...

WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO JUDGE OTHERS!!!!!

Get it???



[This message has been edited by unsure (edited 04-07-2000).]
 
OK Moses, aren't you judging me? You have quite the temper....another good asset for a doctor. By the way, in case that you have forgotten, I think that your ACTUAL original point revolved around money. Not passing judgement on others. Why is it, by the way, that you only chose to respond to me? Others have made their comments to you too. Perhaps you just like to harass me more.

[This message has been edited by milleniumhc (edited 04-07-2000).]
 
Originally posted by unsure:
Yes, that's because I've been ignoring your question. My reasons for entering medicine are just that, my reasons.

I am not so insecure that I need to receive affirmation from complete strangers as to the worthiness of my commitment to osteopathic medicine. Nor is my self-esteem so low that I feel it necesary to question another's commitment to medicine. Or for that matter presume that my committment to medicine is greater than another's.

The only purpose in my post was to point out, albeit in a sarcastic manner, that DocGibby's consideration of cost in making his decision is completely reasonable (I even illustrated the point by showing the power of compound interest). You however, made it abundantly clear that you regard this as an invalid reason. What bothered me was that you then had the audacity to insinuate that if someone does -they must lack some osteopathic ethical ideal- which you of course embody.

Personally, I could never be so presumptuous as to question another's commitment to medicine (osteopathic or otherwise). I suggest in the future that you practice more humility- it's a virtue.

[This message has been edited by unsure (edited 04-06-2000).]

 
I'm disappointed. I was hoping to start a dialogue with UNSURE. Why won't you respond to me UNSURE? My previous reply was obviously inflammatory. I welcome your retort. Conflict brings clarity. I want to try to understand why you want to be a doctor when it seems all you care about is money. There are plenty of careers out there that earn good money, why medicine? I guess maybe that's why you are unsure. Health care in general is about allowing the human body to express itself fully. There are many approaches or philosophies to this, i.e. allopathy, osteopathy, chiropractic, naturopathy, acupuncture. All of the things work to some result, but there are ALL different. By saying that you'd go to either allopathic school or osteopathic school, you're comparing apples to oranges. They're both fruit, but obviously different. Allopathic medicine is steeply based on the premise that health can be restored by a doctor from the outside-in, from a biochemical standpoint. Osteopathic medicine is more concerned with empowering the body to heal itself within to "self-restore" its own health, purely a structure/function relationship. By settling for a school from either discipline based on money, location, etc. is a choice based on ignorance for the differences of osteopathic philosophy, and why it is superior in my opinion than allopathic medicine. But perhaps most importantly, this argument could be totally void if only the osteopathic schools were more critical of who they accept. The interview process is the perfect time to find out what a potential student knows about osteopathic medicine. Maybe then prospective students would examine the philosophy more carefully before deciding to apply so they aren't just "settling" for a DO school.

As far as the judging others thing goes, don't be so defensive. Don't expect others not to criticize you when you throw out opinions and then refuse to back them up. Millenium is merely trying to protect the philosophy she apparently loves, we could all learn a lesson from that. Not standing up for something you believe in is the same as not believing in it at all.
Millenium, if you get accepted to Kirksville, look me up when you come out this way. I'd be interested in "discussing" this further.
 
I have to agree with completelysure. Unsure, you have to be willing to back up your opinions in life, even if you think others are wrong or judging you. You are about to enter a profession in which your beliefs will constantly be judged and some of your beliefs will be shot down. I also have to agree with completelysure and millenium that the whole argument in the first place was putting the emphasis of a philosophical view on money. Try sticking to the topic and calm down- we arent judging you, just arguing some points you have made- if you say something be prepared to defend it....
 
Hi completelysure and do1day! Thank you for the back-up....It is really nice to hear from others that understand my views. I love the profession of osteopathy and would not give it up for anything! It will be a long road, but completely worth it! Thanks again for understanding. I was getting really sick of unsure's sarcasm and inability to grasp what I as trying to get across. Oh well, you can't explain your views and expect everyone to understand. By the way, completelysure, I would love to look you up. We will have to chat more.......
 
hi docgibby!
i am still around, i signed a lease up at msu and i am very, very excited about starting, i also signed up for my classes today and i got my financial aide stuff in the mail, pretty scary :-(
anyone else get there stuff from msu? i cannot wait to meet you all
soon to be a sparty,
peds
 
Hey Peds,

I'm still waiting to sign my lease. I've got my name on the list and I've been assured I'll get one. Probably not for a another month or so. I signed up for classes yesterday over the net. By the way did you notice that the class times were different then those that appeared in the letter they sent us from the registrar? Just curious. What apartment complex did you decide on? I'm at Trapper's Cove. Yep all the pieces are finally falling into place.
 
Docflanny,
I have been a student at MSU for the past 8 years and I am currently starting my 4th year of med school there. First off, congrats on being accepted to a great institution you will enjoy it. As far as living goes, I have lived in many apts. around E.L. and hands down you want to live in Club Meridian. It is very affordable, void of trains, and they offer many benefits such as pool parties, tailgates, as well as a quite surrounding to study. As far as computers I find mine to be a valuable resourse. You can get many of the books on CD rom and they are a lot easier to use than lugging around the text (Harrisons). A palm pilot I would wait for your third and fourth year. I just bought one and I love it, but I don't think I would have used it for my first two years. Good luck and please feel free to ask more questions as needed.
 
Hi spartan!

I am looking into housing in EL too (I'll be staring this fall). Do you have a phone number for Club Meridian? I'd like to check it out when I make a trip there to find housing. Is it close to campus? Thanks for your input.

reddy
 
Spartan,

Thanks for your comments about E. Lansing and recommendations re: buying a computer. It's nice to hear that Club Meridian is well-liked by students. It's difficult to decipher just how nice a place is from their office staff, for obvious reasons. So if you are a fourth-year student where are you doing your clinical rotations at? Did you get your first choice? Good luck with applying to residency programs this Spring.

Peds and Docgibby,

I haven't attempted to register for classes yet. I'll probably register online for them.

Talk to you all later.
 
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