Mt. Sinai Student Kills Herself :(

[Fete]

Medical student's death highlights high rates of physician suicides

Such shame she had so much life to give. failure happens sometimes, when it does it is not the end the world. Its always important to be humble and grateful for what you have at this moment. She was going to be a physician, one that saved and improved people's lives, that should be more than enough to look forward too. I feel terrible for her family, they must be devastated.

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[Dr. Stalker]

Such shame she had so much life to give. failure happens sometimes, when it does it is not the end the world. Its always important to be humble and grateful for what you have at this moment. She was going to be a physician, one that saved and improved people's lives, that should be more than enough to look forward too. I feel terrible for her family, they must be devastated.

Well said. It's terrible how these things happen sometimes. I'm currently studying ethics in medicine and we've devoted a whole unit to this subject. It seems as though the stress is piling onto people at all levels, from high schoolers anxious to get perfect SAT scores so they can get into a combined 7 year medical school linkage program, premeds freaking over "the really hard orgo midterm," to resident and attending physicians.

I'm curious to know how we can implement better changes to change the overall system. The dean at sinai states a de-emphasis on numbers and such, but will that truly be enough? I know of several medical schools with a "true pass/fail" for the pre-clinical years, but that doesn't eliminate the competition, students are still trying to make the highest grades for other things (better dean's letters, AOA, etc.)

 

[Goro]

Why are you on probation?

I don't suffer fools lightly

 

[JustPlainBill]

Haven't a clue. We need some input from attendings! !!!
@Winged Scapula @JustPlainBill @GroverPsychMD @gyngyn what say you????

So -- I'm in clinic at a pause between patients so I haven't had time to fully consider this --- it's one of those times where there's not enough time to do something useful re: clinic paperwork but there is enough time to quickly check SDN -- and this popped up.

On first blush, my thoughts are that you do not want to "hide" something like this as the act of not being forthright will call into question ," What else are they not telling us" should the issue ever go to a medical board/licensing agency/employer. Having a mental health issue is not a show-stopper as far as I know -- licensing agencies tend to look at it from a "does it impair your judgement" -- we've got people who are recovering alcoholics that are required to go to treatment plans, have their practice monitored, etc. but they can still practice. By the time you're in the pipeline, too much has been invested in you and it would mean the loss of a practicing physician.

Now, this advice is worth what you paid for it -- consult an attorney before making any moves -- to me, it seems that if you are under the care of a psychiatrist and your condition is stable, as long as you are adherent with the therapeutic plan, there should be no issues. We need to get over the stigma associated with mental health disorders --- mental health is a component of complete healthcare, just as cardiac health, pulmonary health, endocrine health, etc. -- It would be like saying a type 1 diabetic can't be a physician because they have to have daily injectable medications or their judgment is impaired, or a hypertensive physician that's had 3 vessel CABG can't practice since they have to be on certain medications since hypoperfusion can impact their judgment.

Again, haven't read the whole thread or given it complete consideration but that's my first blush $0.02 -- your mileage may vary, no warranties expressed or implied, car driven by professional driver on a closed track, consult your attorney, this advice is worth what you paid for it.

 

[Goro]

Such shame she had so much life to give. failure happens sometimes, when it does it is not the end the world. Its always important to be humble and grateful for what you have at this moment. She was going to be a physician, one that saved and improved people's lives, that should be more than enough to look forward too. I feel terrible for her family, they must be devastated.

It's a blasphemy that have to bury a child

 

[Nietzsche's Barber]

I'm hoping @Goro sounds like this guy:

Or this guy (this should be a thread by the way)

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

So -- I'm in clinic at a pause between patients so I haven't had time to fully consider this --- it's one of those times where there's not enough time to do something useful re: clinic paperwork but there is enough time to quickly check SDN -- and this popped up.

On first blush, my thoughts are that you do not want to "hide" something like this as the act of not being forthright will call into question ," What else are they not telling us" should the issue ever go to a medical board/licensing agency/employer. Having a mental health issue is not a show-stopper as far as I know -- licensing agencies tend to look at it from a "does it impair your judgement" -- we've got people who are recovering alcoholics that are required to go to treatment plans, have their practice monitored, etc. but they can still practice. By the time you're in the pipeline, too much has been invested in you and it would mean the loss of a practicing physician.

Now, this advice is worth what you paid for it -- consult an attorney before making any moves -- to me, it seems that if you are under the care of a psychiatrist and your condition is stable, as long as you are adherent with the therapeutic plan, there should be no issues. We need to get over the stigma associated with mental health disorders --- mental health is a component of complete healthcare, just as cardiac health, pulmonary health, endocrine health, etc. -- It would be like saying a type 1 diabetic can't be a physician because they have to have daily injectable medications or their judgment is impaired, or a hypertensive physician that's had 3 vessel CABG can't practice since they have to be on certain medications since hypoperfusion can impact their judgment.

Again, haven't read the whole thread or given it complete consideration but that's my first blush $0.02 -- your mileage may vary, no warranties expressed or implied, car driven by professional driver on a closed track, consult your attorney, this advice is worth what you paid for it.

Excellent, excellent post.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

(this should be a thread by the way)

If it wouldn't get locked right away, I'd start it.

 

[JustPlainBill]

Excellent, excellent post.

Natural recognition of my genius, no need to kneel, my good man/woman, kissing the ring will suffice ;->

sorry, couldn't resist. had to throw some ribald humor on a very disturbing, serious topic. We, as a profession, need to look after our own. We preach that patients need a warm, supportive, comforting environment in order to find help. Why would we maintain an abusive, unhealthy environment with our own colleagues -- and make no mistake, medical students are our junior colleagues -- there is a rite of passage that all must go through in learning the healing arts and while certain teaching methods are antiquated, morphing someone from outside, interested observer to attending physician requires some shaping that can only occur through some hard, sometimes excruciating experiences. When you're young, it is very difficult sometimes to put into play the necessary coping skills. It is incumbent on us, as attendings, to be mindful and correct without derision, train without belittling, use sarcasm mildly and always to a teaching point and select the proper training method for each trainee as people respond differently. This is what a true teacher does but sadly, just because you're good at something, does not mean you can teach it.

Having walked a high school friend through the suicide of his 19 year old kid brother over a broken relationship, this is devastating to all concerned, both family members and classmates. I only hope the culture changes for the better without the sterile, academic environment that is so prevalent in medicine.

Keep the faith and determine to be the generation that begins the change when it's your turn to teach/mentor. See the actual reality of the situation and apply common sense along with medical acumen -- patients will love you and you will develop those relationships with them that most of us strive to achieve.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Natural recognition of my genius, no need to kneel, my good man/woman, kissing the ring will suffice ;->

sorry, couldn't resist. had to throw some ribald humor on a very disturbing, serious topic. We, as a profession, need to look after our own. We preach that patients need a warm, supportive, comforting environment in order to find help. Why would we maintain an abusive, unhealthy environment with our own colleagues -- and make no mistake, medical students are our junior colleagues -- there is a rite of passage that all must go through in learning the healing arts and while certain teaching methods are antiquated, morphing someone from outside, interested observer to attending physician requires some shaping that can only occur through some hard, sometimes excruciating experiences. When you're young, it is very difficult sometimes to put into play the necessary coping skills. It is incumbent on us, as attendings, to be mindful and correct without derision, train without belittling, use sarcasm mildly and always to a teaching point and select the proper training method for each trainee as people respond differently. This is what a true teacher does but sadly, just because you're good at something, does not mean you can teach it.

Having walked a high school friend through the suicide of his 19 year old kid brother over a broken relationship, this is devastating to all concerned, both family members and classmates. I only hope the culture changes for the better without the sterile, academic environment that is so prevalent in medicine.

Keep the faith and determine to be the generation that begins the change when it's your turn to teach/mentor. See the actual reality of the situation and apply common sense along with medical acumen -- patients will love you and you will develop those relationships with them that most of us strive to achieve.

Agreed. My nephew and a good Navy buddy of mine have both killed themselves. My wife has a cousin who killed himself. I've seen what it does to people, and I wish we had better mental healthcare in this country and that people weren't so afraid to get help.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

I don't suffer fools lightly

What the hell does that even mean ?

 

[cactusman]

What the hell does that even mean ?

It means he's not afraid to reach through the electrons and smack fools upside the head.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

It means he's not afraid to reach through the electrons and smack fools upside the head.

Dam @Goro is a BAMF then

 

[JustPlainBill]

It means he's not afraid to reach through the electrons and smack fools upside the head.

Bop 'em upside the head, hey now, bop 'em upside da haid.....