MU-COM vs Wayne State vs????? (MD vs DO)

[med0426]

Hello,
I have reached a really difficult point in the admissions cycle where I am at a cross roads. I received an acceptance from a DO school ( Marian University) in my state and I recently received an acceptance to an MD school out of state ( Wayne State). I am strongly leaning towards primary care ( either internal medicine or pediatrics or a double board certification) which is why I thought it would be okay to apply to both programs. I am also waitlisted at my top choice (Indiana University). I am at a crossroads because I already have a deposit placed at Marian since that is where I was first accepted. I only have 5 days to decide whether I want to commit to Wayne state which is why I have to decide if this is something I truly want. Below I have some extra information about both the schools. But I am truly lost. I am also conflicted because my top choice ( IU an MD) is still in the running ( I am wait-listed there).
Marian (DO)
Small
Close-knit
Professors seem to focus on students rather than research
Have been great at communicating
Great location ( Close to family which is super important)
lots of nearby affiliations
COA= about 40,000 per year after aid ( did get institutional aid)
100% placement rate
Felt like Home
Cons:
relatively new program
obstacle because of DO title

Wayne State (MD)
Well established
Lots of hospital affiliations
MD
Clinical experience built into curriculum from year 1
Cons:
Further from family (4-5 hours)
did not love the city of Detroit
out of state tuition= about 60,000 per year
Huge class Size ( almost 300)

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[JennyLaw]

MD always. There are no exceptions, seriously.

You can search the million other threads that have been made on this subject for all the 50 million reasons why.

 

[Goro]

Wayne will open more doors for you.

Who has the cheaper tuition?

I can see some more emotional bonds for MUCOM, so that's always a plus. If you're OK with the odds having you go into Primary Care or the DO-friendly specialties like Neuro or EM, MUCOM is fine.

 

[risus_sardonicus]

Dude go MD even if you want primary care - anyone who says otherwise is doing you a disservice


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[AlteredScale]

Wayne State. Way more resources. You don’t know what specialty you’re ant until third year and if it’s a comer I’ve specialty and/or you wanna stay in academics going MD is always, always, always easier.


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[Hippocrates II]

Wayne State. Don't even question it. You will be very upset with yourself when you're sitting through cranial OMM lectures if you choose the DO route.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Wayne. Unless MU wants to give you a full ride and even then I'd still take Wayne.

 

[Neopolymath]

Do not go to a DO school unless you have a compelling reason. You do not.

 

[bigt1mer]

I am begging you, go to Wayne.

 

[Feelgood MD]

Wayne or pain.

 

[iceclimb12]

I'm going to be a contrarian and say that you should go where it feels right for you to go. I go to a DO school, because that's the only place I got accepted, but I have a friend who went to Wayne and to be honest his experience sounded comparable to my own in school except that his class was larger. That said I don't know what decision I would've made several years ago if I had a choice between the two. Retrospectively I can say I'm glad I'm where I am at for location and cost, as well as some of the opportunities I have been afforded. Perhaps I'd say the same elsewhere but I don't regret being at a DO school in the slightest.

Marian has a generally good reputation and good faculty, and if you're truly interested in Primary Care MD is essentially equivalent to DO for that. I rarely meet people that see DO as a barrier in that realm of medicine. To be sure, it is still a barrier for more competitive specialties and big academic spots, but that seems to be changing as we speak and becoming less of one.

I honestly find SDN unhelpful in this category of advice-giving simply because there is a lot of DO hatred here that is unwarranted. I took a long hiatus from here to avoid the self-hatred for several years but have been lurking since we got pulled from rotations owing to COVID, to see what's going on at other schools. There are some things in DO world that probably need to change (COMLEX vs. USMLE, the rapid proliferation of schools etc.), but there are also positives. I regard the high rates of primary care in DO world to be positive (because it's a good field with good work and is most needed in our nation) and no, I do not believe that it is because the DO applicants aren't competitive for anything else, it's because they truly desire to go into primary care. I am a very average student at my school and I am average nationwide MD and DO by boards, too. Yet there are many who have done much better than I who are still going into primary care simply because they want to. At least that seems to be the general trend at my school. And I have yet to meet anyone in my area or anywhere else I've been who is currently practicing medicine that looks down upon DOs, in any field. I know they exist, but reality seems to indicate that they are few and far inbetween and tend to be the old curmudgeons of a bygone era.

My 2 cents. $20,000 savings per year, less students, closer to home, a school with a decent enough reputation, essentially same opportunity for fields like FM, EM, non-academic IM, Peds, OB-Gyn = a good option. Wayne State is a good option, too, for some of the reasons above stated. But don't let the letters behind the name be the only deciding factor. That's a terrible way to go through life.

All said and done, if you go to Marian you may be 100,000 dollars less in debt (after interest) and you could make 250,000-300,000 a year as a beloved small town Indiana FM who can also do OMT (science aside, patients generally like OMT and you can bill well for it). If this, then you won't regret that you didn't get the MD behind your name. But if you went to Marian, discovered that you love academic neurosurgery, and DO is a barrier to that, you may. But maybe going to Wayne would've been the same result for you. But that's a crappy way to live life. Make a decision and then go with it. With no regrets. Because you can't change the past. You'll be a better person for it.

 

[bigt1mer]

Its not DO hatred, its common sense.

 

[AlteredScale]

But if you went to Marian, discovered that you love academic neurosurgery, and DO is a barrier to that, you may.

If you love academic (insert any surg sub, gen surg, derm, plastics, IM) and want to stay in academia and or go to a prestigious institute, you will regret going to a DO school because you'll come to find out that good board scores, research, and glowing love letters will pull you less interviews from such places simply because you are a DO. It's the nature of the beast. Go to the MD school, keep your doors open. This isn't DO hating, it's just facts that hopefully I can look back at 20 years from now and say that's not the case.

Here's another way to sway your answer OP. Does MU have a department of orthopedics, surgery, neurosurgery, IM with multiple subspecialties?
Nope. Wayne State does. Which means you have your clinical experience, letter writers, and research all in house and you don't need to jump hoops like you would have to at MU trying to break into IUSOM departments to do the same.

 

[deleted978973]

Wayne State 100%. Especially now that Step 1 is P/F. As a DO student I could give you 50 reasons not to go to a DO school. Please do not do it.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'm going to be a contrarian and say that you should go where it feels right for you to go. I go to a DO school, because that's the only place I got accepted, but I have a friend who went to Wayne and to be honest his experience sounded comparable to my own in school except that his class was larger. That said I don't know what decision I would've made several years ago if I had a choice between the two. Retrospectively I can say I'm glad I'm where I am at for location and cost, as well as some of the opportunities I have been afforded. Perhaps I'd say the same elsewhere but I don't regret being at a DO school in the slightest.

Marian has a generally good reputation and good faculty, and if you're truly interested in Primary Care MD is essentially equivalent to DO for that. I rarely meet people that see DO as a barrier in that realm of medicine. To be sure, it is still a barrier for more competitive specialties and big academic spots, but that seems to be changing as we speak and becoming less of one.

I honestly find SDN unhelpful in this category of advice-giving simply because there is a lot of DO hatred here that is unwarranted. I took a long hiatus from here to avoid the self-hatred for several years but have been lurking since we got pulled from rotations owing to COVID, to see what's going on at other schools. There are some things in DO world that probably need to change (COMLEX vs. USMLE, the rapid proliferation of schools etc.), but there are also positives. I regard the high rates of primary care in DO world to be positive (because it's a good field with good work and is most needed in our nation) and no, I do not believe that it is because the DO applicants aren't competitive for anything else, it's because they truly desire to go into primary care. I am a very average student at my school and I am average nationwide MD and DO by boards, too. Yet there are many who have done much better than I who are still going into primary care simply because they want to. At least that seems to be the general trend at my school. And I have yet to meet anyone in my area or anywhere else I've been who is currently practicing medicine that looks down upon DOs, in any field. I know they exist, but reality seems to indicate that they are few and far inbetween and tend to be the old curmudgeons of a bygone era.

My 2 cents. $20,000 savings per year, less students, closer to home, a school with a decent enough reputation, essentially same opportunity for fields like FM, EM, non-academic IM, Peds, OB-Gyn = a good option. Wayne State is a good option, too, for some of the reasons above stated. But don't let the letters behind the name be the only deciding factor. That's a terrible way to go through life.

All said and done, if you go to Marian you may be 100,000 dollars less in debt (after interest) and you could make 250,000-300,000 a year as a beloved small town Indiana FM who can also do OMT (science aside, patients generally like OMT and you can bill well for it). If this, then you won't regret that you didn't get the MD behind your name. But if you went to Marian, discovered that you love academic neurosurgery, and DO is a barrier to that, you may. But maybe going to Wayne would've been the same result for you. But that's a crappy way to live life. Make a decision and then go with it. With no regrets. Because you can't change the past. You'll be a better person for it.

It has nothing to do with the MD. It has to do with your professional career being gimped from its inception. You're choosing a harder route into even a solid FM residency as a DO. You're limiting residency choices, fellowship choices, research choices, and opportunities if you decide you want to become and academic.

During my 4th year I saw how different residency application was for MD students. While my friends with 240s+ were getting community IM invites the MDs with 220s were full of university programs and had their program directors and attendings writing letters to their programs because they were buddies who did residency together or fellowship together.

It's absolutely about setting yourself up right and having the right connections. As a DO you have significantly less and it harms your chances at matching.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

If you love academic (insert any surg sub, gen surg, derm, plastics, IM) and want to stay in academia and or go to a prestigious institute, you will regret going to a DO school because you'll come to find out that good board scores, research, and glowing love letters will pull you less interviews from good places simply because you are a DO. It's the nature of the beast. Go to the MD school, keep your doors open.

Here's another way to sway your answer OP. Does MU have a department of orthopedics, surgery, neurosurgery, IM with multiple subspecialties?
Nope. Wayne State does. Which means you have your clinical experience, letter writers, and research all in house and you don't need to jump hoops like you would have to at MU trying to break into IUSOM departments to do the same.

Mentorship is something money cannot buy. Being mentored by someone well known for preparing individuals for their fields, grooming the right mindset, and being able to say I have a buddy at X and Y universities is something regrettably I never experienced. MD colleagues had ample opportunities, the point that they were freely offered.

 

[medsc1]

Wayne all day. There’s s big difference in training and resources which you will come to realize as you progress through med school.

I care a lot about being close to family too. I had to move 8 hours away and I survived. And I wouldn’t worry too much about the tuition difference. It is well worth it.

 

[Neopolymath]

I'm going to be a contrarian and say that you should go where it feels right for you to go. I go to a DO school, because that's the only place I got accepted, but I have a friend who went to Wayne and to be honest his experience sounded comparable to my own in school except that his class was larger. That said I don't know what decision I would've made several years ago if I had a choice between the two. Retrospectively I can say I'm glad I'm where I am at for location and cost, as well as some of the opportunities I have been afforded. Perhaps I'd say the same elsewhere but I don't regret being at a DO school in the slightest.

Marian has a generally good reputation and good faculty, and if you're truly interested in Primary Care MD is essentially equivalent to DO for that. I rarely meet people that see DO as a barrier in that realm of medicine. To be sure, it is still a barrier for more competitive specialties and big academic spots, but that seems to be changing as we speak and becoming less of one.

I honestly find SDN unhelpful in this category of advice-giving simply because there is a lot of DO hatred here that is unwarranted. I took a long hiatus from here to avoid the self-hatred for several years but have been lurking since we got pulled from rotations owing to COVID, to see what's going on at other schools. There are some things in DO world that probably need to change (COMLEX vs. USMLE, the rapid proliferation of schools etc.), but there are also positives. I regard the high rates of primary care in DO world to be positive (because it's a good field with good work and is most needed in our nation) and no, I do not believe that it is because the DO applicants aren't competitive for anything else, it's because they truly desire to go into primary care. I am a very average student at my school and I am average nationwide MD and DO by boards, too. Yet there are many who have done much better than I who are still going into primary care simply because they want to. At least that seems to be the general trend at my school. And I have yet to meet anyone in my area or anywhere else I've been who is currently practicing medicine that looks down upon DOs, in any field. I know they exist, but reality seems to indicate that they are few and far inbetween and tend to be the old curmudgeons of a bygone era.

My 2 cents. $20,000 savings per year, less students, closer to home, a school with a decent enough reputation, essentially same opportunity for fields like FM, EM, non-academic IM, Peds, OB-Gyn = a good option. Wayne State is a good option, too, for some of the reasons above stated. But don't let the letters behind the name be the only deciding factor. That's a terrible way to go through life.

All said and done, if you go to Marian you may be 100,000 dollars less in debt (after interest) and you could make 250,000-300,000 a year as a beloved small town Indiana FM who can also do OMT (science aside, patients generally like OMT and you can bill well for it). If this, then you won't regret that you didn't get the MD behind your name. But if you went to Marian, discovered that you love academic neurosurgery, and DO is a barrier to that, you may. But maybe going to Wayne would've been the same result for you. But that's a crappy way to live life. Make a decision and then go with it. With no regrets. Because you can't change the past. You'll be a better person for it.

This lengthy screed is only tangentially related to the topic at hand. You are saying he should go there because maybe it will be, optimistically, no worse than attending Wayne for someone with less than competitive career aspirations (that OP can't even be positive are concrete realistically). That's starting the argument from a really bad place. At it's most basic, you are suggesting OP go to a DO school to spend many extra hours each week on OMM that he could spend doing literally anything else because it's probably the same! Unless OP actively knows he is an OMM fanatic, this is bad because anyone that isn't 100% in on OMM is getting a raw deal here on that alone. It doesn't even have to do with hating OMM or not. It's time you cannot have back for something 95% of people will not use. It's an awful value.

Surely we don't need to go over the myriad other reasons even an FM or bust person should go to an MD school for the millionth time. People shouldn't even think about it as MD versus DO but good school versus bad school. And besides, if one blinded the school name and listed out the negatives of going to the DO schools and MD schools on a list it would be easy to say which schools one shouldn't go to. Caribbean style admin, weird mandatory things, no dedicated periods, less interview time, bad rotations, no research, no home departments, no advising blah blah blah it could go on forever.

The idea that people only say don't go DO because degree name or OMM is sooooo tired and wrong. If you are an upperclassmen and don't realize the hardships general found at these schools I can't help you. I can, however, help someone not make a legit life-altering mistake by being penny wise and pound foolish because he took the advice of someone who's point was "eh it'll work out about the same in the end... Maybe*** depending totally on nothing changing with P/F boards or anything else out of your control or your own career desires"

 

[Yankauer]

I am a DO grad who beat the odds and matched a competitive subspecialty at a top academic medical center.

If I had to do it all over again, and had the opportunity you have, I'd go MD -- even if it was double the price.

Listen to all of us. Don't make a career altering mistake.

 

[TwistedTea]

Go md. Do school is like trying to win a 10 mile race with 60lb ball and chain around your testicles while hoping on one foot and doing cranial on yourself.

 

[iceclimb12]

Whatever. I guess I haven't had any negative experiences personally. But I'm also just thankful to be in a medical school in general, and didn't have options like all of you I guess. I can only speak for myself - I don't feel in any way limited personally, but I've only ever wanted to be a family doc anyway.

 

[diesel2202]

Go to Wayne if you don't get into IU. I went to Marian and it wasn't a terrible experience and many in my class got their top choice programs; however, for those of us who got into stronger programs it definitely required more work then our friends down the road. Also, as others have already mentioned, Wayne has more resources and opens up more doors even if in the end you do stick with just wanting primary care.

 

[harrislakers123]

In the eyes of SDN, every MD school is a top 20 program with infinite resources and every DO school is a bottom tier new program with nothing.

 

[vin5cent0]

In the eyes of SDN, every MD school is a top 20 program with infinite resources and every DO school is a bottom tier new program with nothing.

it's okay to recognize the deficiencies of DO schools without being a "DO hater" or anything along those lines. i'm happy with my school, doesn't mean i don't acknowledge that just about any MD school would be better for my career.

 

[bigt1mer]

I'm happy with my DO education, but I'm not going to act like my school has comparable resources to an MD school. My undergrad roommate went to Wayne for med school and matched at a "top" IM program (that has never taken a DO) with a step 1 score 47 points lower than mine.

I am a career changer from a small rural town who was 100% dead set on FM until I started 3rd year. Now I'm going for a specialty where I have a shot at maybe 4-5 of the top 50 programs. I'm still grateful for my school but I sure wouldn't pick it over an MD program.

 

[Sardonix]

SDN has lots of flaws, can be toxic, and can obsess over negative groupthink.

That said, as someone about to start a primary care residency, listen to what the smart people are saying here. Go with Wayne. Marian University is a YOUNG DO school (not a good way to describe any osteopathic program). You have a ton to gain by getting an MD from Wayne. You'll still be a doctor if you go to Marian, but the road will be so much harder.

I'm happy with my DO education, but I'm not going to act like my school has comparable resources to an MD school. My undergrad roommate went to Wayne for med school and matched at a "top" IM program (that has never taken a DO) with a step 1 score 47 points lower than mine.

I am a career changer from a small rural town who was 100% dead set on FM until I started 3rd year. Now I'm going for a specialty where I have a shot at maybe 4-5 of the top 50 programs. I'm still grateful for my school but I sure wouldn't pick it over an MD program.

This. Unless the MD school is a gaping hell hole, three times the tuition, in the Caribbean, and/or literally on fire, 9/10 times MD will be the way to be if given the choice.

 

[SurgDoc95]

This is like choosing between a bran muffin and a fresh, gooey cinnamon roll. Yes the bran muffin will technically break your fast, but it’s constantly looked down on as the lesser of the two. It’s got the cool, hip high fiber and holistic thing going for it and people who only eat bran muffins will swear they’re better, but in all reality nobody really CHOOSES a bran muffin if they’re offered both. You pick that delicious cinnamon treat and you run with it. It’s far superior and always will be. Don’t be the person who passes up on a far better breakfast, pick the cinnamon roll. You’ll be much happier if you do. (Yes I have an unhealthy obsession with cinnamon rolls, but they’re the GOAT)


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[full_rocker]

I get the sentiment of your post, because if I had options back where you are now, I too would have likely made a post to ask for advice.

Medical school is going to be hard. It doesn't matter where you go. There should be zero reason to make it that more challenging and frustrating. Choosing a DO acceptance over an MD is choosing to do exaclty that. You will have to work much harder to prove yourself that much more over your MD colleagues, and put up with more extra frivolous crap that (in my opinion) will not make a damn difference in how "good" of a doctor you will be.

I really hope you use the advice given in this thread to take the Wayne acceptance.

 

[cementoenamel junction]

not even a med student (yet), but wouldn't you rather go to a place that'll give you a higher chance of being where you want to be in the future?

 

[Scrubs101]

Even if you ignore what degree they confer it's still Wayne > MU

 

[hungrydoc710]

Wayne State > any DO school.
Indiannappolis > Detroit though - don't tell my friends.

Detroit native here, I think if you get into any MI school you have to go. Great state for DO's so on the off-chance you do choose DO, you'd have zero issues getting a residency at any of the top programs in the state if you choose to go back to MI.

Someone just matched at my school into an Ophtho program back home.

 

[Tozanzibarbymotorcar]

There is even bias in many primary care programs against DOs. Imagine that...Hope you don't want to go into a program in any major city. Hey if you get lucky some will let you slide to fulfill their one DO in the class "quota". Go to Wayne.

 

[Sardonix]

This is like choosing between a bran muffin and a fresh, gooey cinnamon roll. Yes the bran muffin will technically break your fast, but it’s constantly looked down on as the lesser of the two. It’s got the cool, hip high fiber and holistic thing going for it and people who only eat bran muffins will swear they’re better, but in all reality nobody really CHOOSES a bran muffin if they’re offered both. You pick that delicious cinnamon treat and you run with it. It’s far superior and always will be. Don’t be the person who passes up on a far better breakfast, pick the cinnamon roll. You’ll be much happier if you do. (Yes I have an unhealthy obsession with cinnamon rolls, but they’re the GOAT)


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

Dang I was tempted to go with a "Wayne State = Bruce Wayne MD, aka Batman" while Marian is Captain Planet... but yours is so much better.

Now I want a cinnamon roll.

 

[premedned]

I would choose Wayne in a heartbeat. You want to keep as many doors open as possible. What if you fall in love with a specialty that isnt Primary Care?

 

[hungrydoc710]

I would choose Wayne in a heartbeat. You want to keep as many doors open as possible. What if you fall in love with a specialty that isnt Primary Care?

Lol typical pre-med arrogant comment.
If you like something not in primary care, then get the board scores that allow you to have more options.
Going MD won't save you if you can't score well on Step 2 either way.

Also realize "primary care" = internal medicine = intensivist, cardio, GI, endocrinology, and the list goes on.

 

[premedned]

Lol typical pre-med arrogant comment.
If you like something not in primary care, then get the board scores that allow you to have more options.
Going MD won't save you if you can't score well on Step 2 either way.

Also realize "primary care" = internal medicine = intensivist, cardio, GI, endocrinology, and the list goes on.

Yeah I understand that IM is primary care and GI and Cards are fellowships, but wouldn’t you agree that going to Wayne would offer OP a greater chance of getting better clinical rotations, research opportunities, faculty that has better connections and LORs therefore increasing your chances of a better residency. Seems like a much better option to me

 

[Zen Arcade]

Also realize "primary care" = internal medicine = intensivist, cardio, GI, endocrinology, and the list goes on.

Subspecializing in cards or GI will definitely be harder as a DO. Generally it helps significantly if you have an MD and come from a higher ranked IM program. These fellowships can be difficult to match - although there are easier ones in IM such as Endo, Nephro, etc. GI in particular is becoming about as competitive as your typical 'competitive specialties' that people apply for M4 year.

 

[hungrydoc710]

Subspecializing in cards or GI will definitely be harder as a DO. Generally it helps significantly if you have an MD and come from a higher ranked IM program. These fellowships can be difficult to match - although there are easier ones in IM such as Endo, Nephro, etc. GI in particular is becoming about as competitive as your typical 'competitive specialties' that people apply for M4 year.

Higher ranked IM programs is attainable for DO's with a good Step 1 score. That's what it comes down to.

 

[Neopolymath]

Lol typical pre-med arrogant comment.
If you like something not in primary care, then get the board scores that allow you to have more options.
Going MD won't save you if you can't score well on Step 2 either way.

Also realize "primary care" = internal medicine = intensivist, cardio, GI, endocrinology, and the list goes on.

So OP should give himself even more obstacles to success and well-being just because you say it's possible? The question was whether this poster should choose a DO school over an MD one not whether some DO students manage to get into good IM programs that allow them to pursue fellowship training (which is not primary care...). Even if it's possible and isn't terribly uncommon, it still doesn't change the fact that the road is far harder for no justifiable reason.

You were awfully hostile to the other poster for someone who hasn't refuted the articulated point at all (That he should keep his options open as his future goals may change. This poster said nothing about IM fellowships). Calling it an arrogant premed comment is unnecessary gatekeeping considering his advice was sound and you had no direct rebuttal.

How would you like it if I invalidated your posts by saying you are a lowly new M3 with average board scores compared to me so obviously you don't know anything instead of actually refuting the point? Not a nice game anymore is it when you are on the receiving end? We need to cut some slack to premeds trying to think logically. It's not an attack on your personal goals to pursue IM as a DO.

 

[premedned]

Higher ranked IM programs is attainable for DO's with a good Step 1 score. That's what it comes down to.

I don't disagree that it isn't attainable as a DO, but OP would most likely be at a disadvantage going the DO route, especially if MD is a current option. Plus, isn't Step 1 P/F now?

I would imagine that would cause your med school pedigree to be even more important in the match, as well as Step 2.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

It has nothing to do with the MD. It has to do with your professional career being gimped from its inception.

I see what you did there......

Going MD won't save you if you can't score well on Step 2 either way.

I mean.... in a lot of specialties it will....

 

[medic99]

I am a DO and recommend MD. Something that will become relevant as soon as you graduate is CME. Osteopathic CME's are expensive and cumbersome. It feels like extortion. It is slightly better after the AOA got sued 2 years ago, but still a pain. Additionally, different specialties have different requirements, such as this thing where EM docs have to do eight reviews of 40 articles in a ten year cycle to get recertified. Stay away from osteopathy until they fix this.

 

[premedned]

I am a DO and recommend MD. Something that will become relevant as soon as you graduate is CME. Osteopathic CME's are expensive and cumbersome. It feels like extortion. It is slightly better after the AOA got sued 2 years ago, but still a pain. Additionally, different specialties have different requirements, such as this thing where EM docs have to do eight reviews of 40 articles in a ten year cycle to get recertified. Stay away from osteopathy until they fix this.

Is this applicable only to DOs? I thought MDs have the same requirements once they are practicing? Or are you saying that DOs have additional CME requirements

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Is this applicable only to DOs? I thought MDs have the same requirements once they are practicing? Or are you saying that DOs have additional CME requirements

No there is CME for MD's, but the AOA CME requirements are far more predatory. The less anyone has to deal with the AOA the better.

 

[premedned]

No there is CME for MD's, but the AOA CME requirements are far more predatory. The less anyone has to deal with the AOA the better.

Jeeez thats horrible

 

[PigsHaveWings]

Jeeez thats horrible

CME requirements are not that hard anymore, it used to be difficult 10 years ago before the advent of online CME.

For most MD's they can meet their CME requirement by logging in couple of times a week to an online educational resource called uptodate online (www.uptodate.com) which is usually provided free by their hospital and extremely user friendly.

For several osteopathic specialties as per the AOA they can do the same since uptodate online is considered level 2 CME. The main exception to the rule is family practice AOA which is quite rigid and requires 75 hours of level 1 CME which uptodate online wlll not qualify for . So they will have to do 75 hours of level 1 CME in a 3 year cycle (25 hours per year----- These are not the credit hours you think of as an undergraduate, this is a total of 25 hours per year, which most physicians can probably finish in 10 or 15 hours since they tend to be smart folks ). See the link below if you want more details about the AOA CME requirements.

CME Requirements - American Osteopathic Association

For the 2019-2021 CME cycle, all non-time-limited diplomates not participating in OCC have requirements of earning 120 total CME credits.

osteopathic.org

So compared to our preparing for the MCAT , the osteopathic CME requirement would be a piece of cake.

This requirement should definitely not factor into your decision making of whether you want to be a DO or an MD.

 

[Neopolymath]

No reason whatsoever to be boarded by the AOA. Don't do it. Don't give those cretins money. Let them go bankrupt. Their tactics regarding mandatory AOA membership to keep your board eligibility hostage is being fought in court because they are scam artists who can't produce a product worth buying without being blackmailed into it. DO orgs like the NBOME, AOA and COCA have shown their colors over and over again. Do not support these criminals.

 

[PigsHaveWings]

No reason whatsoever to be boarded by the AOA. Don't do it. Don't give those cretins money. Let them go bankrupt. Their tactics regarding mandatory AOA membership to keep your board eligibility hostage is being fought in court because they are scam artists who can't produce a product worth buying without being blackmailed into it. DO orgs like the NBOME, AOA and COCA have shown their colors over and over again. Do not support these criminals.

Agree with you. It is quite surprising that AOA is being allowed by the government to expand the schools and the number of graduates and the MD schools are not increasing their student load.

Mayo clinic with world renowned faculty and tons of resources feel they can only train 100 students well, yet DO schools with minimal medical infrastructure and understaffed "teaching" faculty have hundreds of matriculants. NYITCOM ---435, Nova 416, AT still 415 (between 2 campuses), LECOM with multiple campuses. Wonder who is regulating this and overseeing this process ?

 

[premedned]

Agree with you. It is quite surprising that AOA is being allowed by the government to expand the schools and the number of graduates and the MD schools are not increasing their student load.

Mayo clinic with world renowned faculty and tons of resources feel they can only train 100 students well, yet DO schools with minimal medical infrastructure and understaffed "teaching" faculty have hundreds of matriculants. NYITCOM ---435, Nova 416, AT still 415 (between 2 campuses), LECOM with multiple campuses. Wonder who is regulating this and overseeing this process ?

It sounds like its financially motivated. Doesn't AOA get more $ with more graduates irregardless of match rate/training? Plus isn't DO match rate essentially identical to MD match rate at this point in time?