Music to MD!

[0919mmk]

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Hey All,

We were having a discussion on another thread about musicians going in to medicine, and I thought I would be cool to see if there are others trying to do this.

As Edlongshanks rightly pointed out, you probably don't want to call yourself a "musician" in med school interviews unless you have some significant accomplishments as a musician prior to applying to med school. I have no such significant accomplishments, and as such I wont be playing up my former life as a starving metal guitar player in NYC in med school interviews.

But that doesn't prevent me from anonymously reveling in the delicious contrast between my past life and my (hopefully) future life. How are other musicians planning to weave their past life (or present life?) in to med school essays and interviews? Are you avoiding it totally? Embracing it wholeheartedly? Are you classical/rock/punk?

A little off topic, but interested to hear about the musical talents of SDNers!

 

[EdLongshanks]

But that doesn't prevent me from anonymously reveling in the delicious contrast between my past life and my (hopefully) future life. How are other musicians planning to weave their past life (or present life?) in to med school essays and interviews? Are you avoiding it totally? Embracing it wholeheartedly? Are you classical/rock/punk?

A little off topic, but interested to hear about the musical talents of SDNers!

At my accepted student day, over half of the class played some instrument. I think that talents of a physician and musician are complementary.

In America, though, when someone asks "What do you do?" they usually mean "What do you make money at?" or "How do you support yourself?" Very few musicians make a career of music. If I were an adcom (which I will never be) I would be concerned that someone who defined themselves as a career musician was a lazy bum who called himself a musician and played in a few bars occasionally, but was brilliant enough to make good grades and now thinks that medicine is easy money.


That clearly doesn't apply to you.

If I were a GOOD musician (rather than a casual one) I believe that I would have supported myself as a teacher or some other non-demanding career and pursued my music on the side. All of my high-school music teachers fit this model. If they wanted to become a doctor at 50, they would have said that they had taught music as a career and, as EC's they had participated in X number of recordings - was 3 seat violinist in the St. Louis Symphony, toured one summer with Kenny Chesney, etc. That would be an impressive resume.

 

[RFHawks]

I attended a music college and obtained an AAS degree in guitar performance. I used my trials and tribs in the cutthroat business that is music as a leaping point for searching another vocation. My selling point was that even though I was passionate about music, a sustainable career in music was just not feasible and I found that my passion had transferred to medicine.

My specialty in school was classical and flamenco guitar, but since I have played in bands of jazz, alt rock, blues, bluegrass, and death metal.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I attended a music college and obtained an AAS degree in guitar performance. I used my trials and tribs in the cutthroat business that is music as a leaping point for searching another vocation. My selling point was that even though I was passionate about music, a sustainable career in music was just not feasible and I found that my passion had transferred to medicine.

My specialty in school was classical and flamenco guitar, but since I have played in bands of jazz, alt rock, blues, bluegrass, and death metal.

I think that there are lots of excellent musicians out there with the same attitude as you. I wouldn't be surprised if several of them even tried the music industry for 3 to 10 years before deciding that, like a dream of playing in the NFL, there are more aspirants than draftees.

On the other hand, it would look a little odd if you were 50 before coming to this realization.

 

[0919mmk]

I attended a music college and obtained an AAS degree in guitar performance. I used my trials and tribs in the cutthroat business that is music as a leaping point for searching another vocation. My selling point was that even though I was passionate about music, a sustainable career in music was just not feasible and I found that my passion had transferred to medicine.

My specialty in school was classical and flamenco guitar, but since I have played in bands of jazz, alt rock, blues, bluegrass, and death metal.

Awesome! Did you face a lot of skepticism about that transition? I feel like I didn't really face too many tough questions about it, but I also wonder if I made the most of the situation...I wasn't able to really show that my passion for music "transferred" to medicine. Mind PMing me what school you go to now?

p.s. Berklee or GIT? Did you hear about the Vai Berklee online thing in a couple weeks? Gonna be fun...

 

[0919mmk]

I think that there are lots of excellent musicians out there with the same attitude as you. I wouldn't be surprised if several of them even tried the music industry for 3 to 10 years before deciding that, like a dream of playing in the NFL, there are more aspirants than draftees.

On the other hand, it would look a little odd if you were 50 before coming to this realization.

Agreed. Fair or not, I'm sure that coming to this decision later in life will raise many more eyebrows than I expect to get at 25.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Agreed. Fair or not, I'm sure that coming to this decision later in life will raise many more eyebrows than I expect to get at 25.

There won't be any question, and probably some congratulations on trying until you are 25. Think about it in terms of sports. If you were interviewing someone who tried and barely missed getting into the NFL, would you hold that against them because you were interviewing them for their "second choice"? Of course not. The sports world and the world of paid musicians is even more selective than medical school. Similarly, if you fail to get into medical school after several cycles, and have to settle for an MBA, I would think that the business schools wouldn't hold the previous attempt at medical school against you.

 

[Brasco888]

The sports world and the world of paid musicians is even more selective than medical school.

So true...

I teach a stringed instrument, and I often tell my students that they are elite athletes and have to train as such; they just use much smaller and finer muscles than the athletes they see on TV!

 

[musicmajor]

I spent 2006-2009 trying to make it in the music industry. Released a few albums, toured, played as a sideman and did session gigs on the bass. While I loved playing live, recording and traveling, I didn't love the constant self-promotion that is necessary these days. And I didn't really like the fact that the most important gigs for me were becoming the ones that paid the most, and not the ones where I was playing music I loved with great musicians.

My goals as a musician were a little bit unrealistic. I wanted to be able to deliver social commentary, and change people's minds, not just play "beautiful" music. Over time I came to realize that you can't really be that unless you are at the very top of the game, and I wasn't.

One reason I switched to medicine is that unlike music, it can be very tangible. A well trained doctor can change many people's lives in a very positive way. A well-trained musician needs much more than skill to change lives.

One well-noted correlation is the overlap of musical and mathematical ability, which I presume has to do with an ability to recognize and replicate patterns from abstract inputs (i.e. streams of written or played music, equations and numerical streams). Also, a really skilled musician, and particularly an improviser, knows how to combine physical technique, formal theory, tasteful aesthetics, and a sense of narrative. This combination of rigorous physical and theoretical training, and a gut sense of judgement and clarity purpose seem to be the skills that physicians need to use everyday. Furthermore, musicians in my area (jazz, rock, blues, country) learn how to rapidly communicate abstract musical ideas to people of diverse skills, training, and approach to music. That ability to quickly size up someone's musical orientation and technical ability, and then to communicate in a way that will allow them fit into an arrangement, can translate into an ability to communicate with diverse patients, medical staff and specialties.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I spent 2006-2009 trying to make it in the music industry. Released a few albums, toured, played as a sideman and did session gigs on the bass. While I loved playing live, recording and traveling, I didn't love the constant self-promotion that is necessary these days. And I didn't really like the fact that the most important gigs for me were becoming the ones that paid the most, and not the ones where I was playing music I loved with great musicians.

My goals as a musician were a little bit unrealistic. I wanted to be able to deliver social commentary, and change people's minds, not just play "beautiful" music. Over time I came to realize that you can't really be that unless you are at the very top of the game, and I wasn't.

One reason I switched to medicine is that unlike music, it can be very tangible. A well trained doctor can change many people's lives in a very positive way. A well-trained musician needs much more than skill to change lives.

One well-noted correlation is the overlap of musical and mathematical ability, which I presume has to do with an ability to recognize and replicate patterns from abstract inputs (i.e. streams of written or played music, equations and numerical streams). Also, a really skilled musician, and particularly an improviser, knows how to combine physical technique, formal theory, tasteful aesthetics, and a sense of narrative. This combination of rigorous physical and theoretical training, and a gut sense of judgement and clarity purpose seem to be the skills that physicians need to use everyday. Furthermore, musicians in my area (jazz, rock, blues, country) learn how to rapidly communicate abstract musical ideas to people of diverse skills, training, and approach to music. That ability to quickly size up someone's musical orientation and technical ability, and then to communicate in a way that will allow them fit into an arrangement, can translate into an ability to communicate with diverse patients, medical staff and specialties.

All of this makes me cringe. But I am the satellite exception here. I think that this will probably play well with everyone else.

 

[RFHawks]

A well-trained musician needs much more than skill to change lives.

This. But change 'skill' to luck. I WAS at the top of my game. But that didn't matter. There are tons of talented musicians that never go anywhere, and many of the ones that do make it somewhere don't have much talent at all (i.e. the "The" bands of the early 21st century and most of the gold toothed rap out there 😀)

 

[RFHawks]

All of this makes me cringe. But I am the satellite exception here. I think that this will probably play well with everyone else.

Why does this make you cringe? The explanation was a little wordy but the point I think he was making is that being a musician requires you to communicate with other professionals that have other talents than yourself. In one of my bands, we wrote collaboratively and I likened it to communicating with other specialists in my PS. It worked.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Why does this make you cringe? The explanation was a little wordy but the point I think he was making is that being a musician requires you to communicate with other professionals that have other talents than yourself. In one of my bands, we wrote collaboratively and I likened it to communicating with other specialists in my PS. It worked.

I'm sure it worked. I'm sure it's good. And "The Notebook" was a great movie.

 

[RFHawks]

I'm sure it worked. I'm sure it's good. And "The Notebook" was a great movie.

Not sure what you mean by this, but it sounds like a jab 👎. Also, I don't know what "The Notebook" is.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Not sure what you mean by this, but it sounds like a jab 👎. Also, I don't know what "The Notebook" is.

It's not a jab. It says that all of this is good. The Notebook is the ultimate chick-flick. Emotional, feel-good, and well-acted and produced. I'm saying that this sort of PS is effective and will work and that I have an uncommon allergy to it. I'm not claiming to be right.

 

[RFHawks]

It's not a jab. It says that all of this is good. The Notebook is the ultimate chick-flick. Emotional, feel-good, and well-acted and produced. I'm saying that this sort of PS is effective and will work and that I have an uncommon allergy to it. I'm not claiming to be right.

Oh, Ok. What is your allergy if you don't mind me asking? I'm just wondering where your distaste comes from.

 

[herbiederbie]

Hey All,

We were having a discussion on another thread about musicians going in to medicine, and I thought I would be cool to see if there are others trying to do this.

As Edlongshanks rightly pointed out, you probably don't want to call yourself a "musician" in med school interviews unless you have some significant accomplishments as a musician prior to applying to med school. I have no such significant accomplishments, and as such I wont be playing up my former life as a starving metal guitar player in NYC in med school interviews.

But that doesn't prevent me from anonymously reveling in the delicious contrast between my past life and my (hopefully) future life. How are other musicians planning to weave their past life (or present life?) in to med school essays and interviews? Are you avoiding it totally? Embracing it wholeheartedly? Are you classical/rock/punk?

A little off topic, but interested to hear about the musical talents of SDNers!

Good topic for discussion! Thanks for sharing your stories.

I'm currently a music professor (voice teacher) at a local private college. My training is classical with some experience as an opera singer. I sang with the opera company here in town for a couple seasons. I enjoy performing, but I would not say (especially in an interview situation) it's what I've been doing primarily these past 5 years post graduate school. I knew when I majored in music that I also really enjoyed teaching, so I was expecting to be involved in both aspects of being a musician when I graduated.

When I was taking a vocal pedagogy class as an undergrad, we read a book called The Diagnosis and Correction of Vocal Faults. A very lofty title--it always kind of made me laugh. Anyway, the book opened by comparing the work of a physician diagnosing illness to the way a voice teacher is expected to "diagnose" and then help to change vocal issues a student may have. We studied the anatomy of the larynx and surrounding musculature in that class, and I always found it very interesting. So, yes, I do find some similarity between music teaching and the work of a physician. I'm hoping to be able to articulate some of those thoughts more succinctly in an interview someday! One question I would like to be prepared to answer is, "Why do you want to be a physician and not a speech language pathologist?" since it seems more directly related to what I'm doing now. Or "If you like to help people, why not be a counselor?" Students tend to open up during voice lessons--it's such a personal thing to sing for someone, b/c you must make yourself vulnerable and receptive to change, whether it be technical, or in regards to interpretation of the text or character you are portraying. My voice teacher was a counselor and mentor to me during some rough times during my college years. 🙂

 

[EdLongshanks]

Oh, Ok. What is your allergy if you don't mind me asking? I'm just wondering where your distaste comes from.

Social commentary music.

 

[RFHawks]

Social commentary music.

Hmmm... still not sure what you mean by this. You don't like music that comments on social issues? Or is it that comparing music to social issues is too touchy-feely for you? Sorry for the questions but you have piqued my curiosity.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Hmmm... still not sure what you mean by this. You don't like music that comments on social issues? Or is it that comparing music to social issues is too touchy-feely for you? Sorry for the questions but you have piqued my curiosity.

Music that comments on social issues. I like musicians to concentrate on entertainment, doctors to concentrate on healing, and politicians to concentrate on competent governance.

 

[RFHawks]

Music that comments on social issues. I like musicians to concentrate on entertainment, doctors to concentrate on healing, and politicians to concentrate on competent governance.

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[0919mmk]

Good topic for discussion! Thanks for sharing your stories.

I'm currently a music professor (voice teacher) at a local private college. My training is classical with some experience as an opera singer. I sang with the opera company here in town for a couple seasons. I enjoy performing, but I would not say (especially in an interview situation) it's what I've been doing primarily these past 5 years post graduate school. I knew when I majored in music that I also really enjoyed teaching, so I was expecting to be involved in both aspects of being a musician when I graduated.

When I was taking a vocal pedagogy class as an undergrad, we read a book called The Diagnosis and Correction of Vocal Faults. A very lofty title--it always kind of made me laugh. Anyway, the book opened by comparing the work of a physician diagnosing illness to the way a voice teacher is expected to "diagnose" and then help to change vocal issues a student may have. We studied the anatomy of the larynx and surrounding musculature in that class, and I always found it very interesting. So, yes, I do find some similarity between music teaching and the work of a physician. I'm hoping to be able to articulate some of those thoughts more succinctly in an interview someday! One question I would like to be prepared to answer is, "Why do you want to be a physician and not a speech language pathologist?" since it seems more directly related to what I'm doing now. Or "If you like to help people, why not be a counselor?" Students tend to open up during voice lessons--it's such a personal thing to sing for someone, b/c you must make yourself vulnerable and receptive to change, whether it be technical, or in regards to interpretation of the text or character you are portraying. My voice teacher was a counselor and mentor to me during some rough times during my college years. 🙂

I find it so annoying when I am asked that kind of question. I'm not saying it's an invalid question, but it just bugs me.

"If you like research/music/helping people, why dont you become a PhD/music therapist/social worker?"

"Because THIS is what I have chosen to pursue a**hole! Those other jobs make sense, and perhaps if I wasn't going to be a doctor, I would pursue one of those. Why didn't you become a male stripper? Dum-de-dum, you could be my priiivate dancer, doodle-de-do!! " haha.

The point is that I'm not saying that becoming an MD is the only thing I could ever do with my life, but it's what I have chosen. Yeah, I could continue to pursue music, but yes, for reasons X,Y, and Z, I prefer this path over that path.

Bottom line, I know I'm just bitching here. And as former music people, we should definitely be prepared to answer such a question. But in essence, you should have already answered this question when they ask you why you want to be a doctor. The reason I want to be a doctor=the reason i dont want to be a professional musician, stripper, etc.

 

[musicmajor]

"If you like research/music/helping people, why dont you become a PhD/music therapist/social worker?"

I volunteered at a children's hospital for a year and there was a music therapist on staff. She seemed to be the most unhappy and most under-appreciated member of the hospital staff. Music therapy sounds great on paper, but I wouldn't want to do it as a career.

Perhaps the previous poster's unease with the idea of musicians as anything other than simple entertainers is a widespread attitude. I hope that my experience working with patients and doctors in my training will dispel any illusions I may have about medicine as a career.

 

[jl lin]

Commenting on culture and social issues has always been a function of epic tales around the fire and often involved music. Where did we originally get folk music from? Well, it was the music of the FOLK.

Yes there's Bach's perspective, which has merit. . .absolute music. . .music for music's sake. But it's only one perspective, period. He was neither all wrong nor all right. He simply has a point. There's a purity in absolute music, but it doesn't mean that all there is to all music.

Also some people can mechanically and technically read and play music, but the art of it isn't in their souls. It's like when people can make fine strokes on the page, but it will never evoke emotion or verve. Some people can learn the moves and choreography, but they will never feel and reflect the beauty of movement. Some people can carry a tune, but they will never move people when they sing. There's art and a science to things. There's the right brain and the left brain and a keen balance. Same is true with medicine. Some of the best physicians I have ever worked with practiced both the art and science of medicine. It's one of those things that can separate adequate or good from great.

 

[Brasco888]

Commenting on culture and social issues has always been a function of epic tales around the fire and often involved music. Where did we originally get folk music from? Well, it was the music of the FOLK.

Yes there's Bach's perspective, which has merit. . .absolute music. . .music for music's sake. But it's only one perspective, period. He was neither all wrong nor all right. He simply has a point. There's a purity in absolute music, but it doesn't mean that all there is to all music.

Also some people can mechanically and technically read and play music, but the art of it isn't in their souls. It's like when people can make fine strokes on the page, but it will never evoke emotion or verve. Some people can learn the moves and choreography, but they will never feel and reflect the beauty of movement. Some people can carry a tune, but they will never move people when they sing. There's art and a science to things. There's the right brain and the left brain and a keen balance. Same is true with medicine. Some of the best physicians I have ever worked with practiced both the art and science of medicine. It's one of those things that can separate adequate or good from great.

QFT... every word of it..

 

[Helen Wheels]

I played oboe throughout high school and college and also took three years of singing lessons. You bet I mentioned this in the EC section of my apps though I didn't write anything about it in my PS and it didn't come up in my interview. I don't currently perform anywhere though I often think about it trying to find somewhere to sing. Music is definitely a big part of my life. I like a wide variety of music - from opera and musical theater to Frank Sinatra, Lady Gaga, and even rap. I have not one but four iPods - they are just like potato chips...how can you stop at one? 😉

 

[EdLongshanks]

I played oboe throughout high school and college and also took three years of singing lessons. You bet I mentioned this in the EC section of my apps though I didn't write anything about it in my PS and it didn't come up in my interview. I don't currently perform anywhere though I often think about it trying to find somewhere to sing. Music is definitely a big part of my life. I like a wide variety of music - from opera and musical theater to Frank Sinatra, Lady Gaga, and even rap. I have not one but four iPods - they are just like potato chips...how can you stop at one? 😉

I probably should have mentioned the instruments I play in my apps. I lead the singing and play the piano for the services at my church. I would hate to go through life not playing or singing. I don't know that actual numbers, but anecdotally it appears that medical students and doctors are more likely to be musicians than the general public. I wonder if there is a cultural or biological reason for this.