My advice to pre-pharmers

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Passion4Sci said:
Citation needed.
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It's probably true. I don't mean from a factual standpoint, but from an "I hate all things CVS" standpoint, it makes sense.

All kidding aside, I am sure all the major retailers have about the same turnover rate. I also would be willing to bet that turnover is lower in other fields of pharmacy. I know my hospital has only lost one pharmacist in the last 5 years - he retired. That is pretty awesome turnover however you look at it!
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owlegrad said:
It's probably true. I don't mean from a factual standpoint, but from an "I hate all things CVS" standpoint, it makes sense.

All kidding aside, I am sure all the major retailers have about the same turnover rate. I also would be willing to bet that turnover is lower in other fields of pharmacy. I know my hospital has only lost one pharmacist in the last 5 years - he retired. That is pretty awesome turnover however you look at it!
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Don't let the silly troll off the hook. He needs to substantiate his argument.

Speaking of CVS, there are two brand-new CVS stores going up in Stockton as we speak. Guess who's staffing those babies.

Oh yeah, TIGER POWER!!!!
 
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This thread continues to devolve....:rolleyes:
 
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1. People are living longer.
2. The Bernie Madoffs and Enrons destroyed a lot of retirement income, not to mention Wall Street, insert favorite savings/investment sucking organizaton here.
3. Because of the soft economy, people are holding onto their jobs with a deathgrip (even if they are close to retirement because of #2, or they just didn't save for retirement [does not have to be related to a PharmD])
4. The population of the U.S. not to mention the rest of the world, has continually increased. Rate of death of a population is slower than birth rate.
5. It doesn't matter how many people enter a PharmD program or graduate. What does matter is how many people pass the NAPLEX. Getting a lab coat with the schools COP emblem on it does not a pharmacist make.
6. Due to all the previously mentioned items, it is only natural that the supply of PharmD will become greater than the demand.
It does not matter what profession you want to pursue. You will have qualified applicants, and you will have placeholders.

In real life, you have to make yourself the best candidate for a desired job. In most cases, who you know gets your foot in the door. Being the most qualified gets the door opened.
 
owlegrad said:
Hamster =/= Rat?
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Well, kinda. But not really. Hamsters are cuter IMO. Rats have that long skinny tail that freaks me out. So do gerbils. I don't like the tail!!!

My nieces got hamsters over the weekend and now I kind of want one. But my husband said no new animals until after the baby comes! :laugh:
 
All4MyDaughter said:
Well, kinda. But not really. Hamsters are cuter IMO. Rats have that long skinny tail that freaks me out. So do gerbils. I don't like the tail!!!

My nieces got hamsters over the weekend and now I kind of want one. But my husband said no new animals until after the baby comes! :laugh:
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I have heard it said the main difference between a squirrel and a rat is the tail (and checks somewhat). So much importance on such an insignificant anatomical features.

Rodents are fine, but they stink (literally I mean). Fish are a more practical choices, IMO. Low maintenance, never escape, calming, etc. Reptiles are a close second.
 
owlegrad said:
I have heard it said the main difference between a squirrel and a rat is the tail (and checks somewhat). So much importance on such an insignificant anatomical features.

Rodents are fine, but they stink (literally I mean). Fish are a more practical choices, IMO. Low maintenance, never escape, calming, etc. Reptiles are a close second.
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After our pet store excursion for the nieces' hamsters, what I really wanted was a turtle or two. They had the bigger ones that would require some sort of pond setup AND they now sell the little bitty ones who could live in a reasonably sized aquarium (converted to be appropriate for turtles of course). I liked the bigger ones and husband liked the smaller ones. But he still nixed the whole idea anyway. :(

PS: the tail is NOT insignificant. It's FREAKY!!! :scared:
 
owlegrad said:
I have heard it said the main difference between a squirrel and a rat is the tail (and checks somewhat). So much importance on such an insignificant anatomical features.

Rodents are fine, but they stink (literally I mean). Fish are a more practical choices, IMO. Low maintenance, never escape, calming, etc. Reptiles are a close second.
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All4MyDaughter said:
After our pet store excursion for the nieces' hamsters, what I really wanted was a turtle or two. They had the bigger ones that would require some sort of pond setup AND they now sell the little bitty ones who could live in a reasonably sized aquarium (converted to be appropriate for turtles of course). I liked the bigger ones and husband liked the smaller ones. But he still nixed the whole idea anyway. :(

PS: the tail is NOT insignificant. It's FREAKY!!! :scared:
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I had a pet rat and a pet turtle as a kid. The turtle's tank actually got really smelly in a hurry, even though we cleaned it pretty regularly. It was basically just a bowl though, no fancy filter or anything. Still an awesome pet though. I was very partial to turtles as a kid though (TMNT FTW!!!)

My rat was an awesome pet too, freaky tail and all :laugh: He actually didn't smell unless we didn't clean out his cage regularly enough.
 
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R2pharmD2 said:
I had a pet rat and a pet turtle as a kid. The turtle's tank actually got really smelly in a hurry, even though we cleaned it pretty regularly. It was basically just a bowl though, no fancy filter or anything. Still an awesome pet though. I was very partial to turtles as a kid though (TMNT FTW!!!)

My rat was an awesome pet too, freaky tail and all :laugh: He actually didn't smell unless we didn't clean out his cage regularly enough.
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I can see why my husband doesn't want us to get either. I am not good at taking care of things that are squirmy or smelly. I mostly just like to look. Our current menagerie includes two cats and two dogs. Before our daughter died she also had a fish and an ant farm. The fish died about a week or so after she did. The ants lived a while longer, but they don't live very long anyway. You have to keep replacing them. The ant farm cost almost nothing but the ants were the real moneymaker for the company. Kind of a ripoff, but Riley liked watching them tunnel and work.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
After our pet store excursion for the nieces' hamsters, what I really wanted was a turtle or two. They had the bigger ones that would require some sort of pond setup AND they now sell the little bitty ones who could live in a reasonably sized aquarium (converted to be appropriate for turtles of course). I liked the bigger ones and husband liked the smaller ones. But he still nixed the whole idea anyway. :(

PS: the tail is NOT insignificant. It's FREAKY!!! :scared:
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That's rich, coming from you.
 
R2pharmD2 said:
I had a pet rat and a pet turtle as a kid. The turtle's tank actually got really smelly in a hurry, even though we cleaned it pretty regularly. It was basically just a bowl though, no fancy filter or anything. Still an awesome pet though. I was very partial to turtles as a kid though (TMNT FTW!!!)

My rat was an awesome pet too, freaky tail and all :laugh: He actually didn't smell unless we didn't clean out his cage regularly enough.
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My niece had a hairless rat, it was quite cute. It's possible his cage wasn't cleaned out regularly enough :shrug:, all I know is he stunk everytime I went over.
 
The OP is right in a way b/c pharmacy is no longer the way it use to be. The demand has dropped and the supply has increase by 10 folds. It is no longer a career that will give job security and money. It is like any regular career now. So you should only pursue it if you LOVE IT TO DEATH. If pharmacy is truely your passion and you love it more than anything else in the world and you wouldn't mind doing it for free (b/c you love it so much), then go for it. Do pharmacy.

But if you are just looking for a easy way to get rich, then pharmacy is no longer the career b/c it is NOT an easy way to get rich. The tuition is very expensive and the schooling is fairly intense. There are easier ways to get rich and people should pursue that instead.

I say this a million times and I will say it again. If you already have a fairly decent job that pays pretty good (not rich, but good enough like 50K to 70K a year) then I say just stick with it. There is a guy in my class that use to make 90K a year and now he is in pharmacy. That is stupid! If you already have a decent job that pays fairly well, JUST STICK WITH IT. If I was making 50K or 60K a year, I will STICK WITH THAT JOB. Please do not quit thinking pharmacy will equal a TON more money etc. That is just not true and funny to say the least! :laugh:

If you are 18 and got into a public pharmacy school and will come out with little to no debt and you are in LOVE with pharmacy then go for it. Good luck!

If you are older and already making 50K a year etc. then just stick with your job. Please don't look at pharmacy like it is going to make you the next Bill Gates. The job is saturated and you could end up with nothing but 150K in loans.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
Please cite a source for this statistic. You can't keep dropping this junk into threads without backing it up.
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I think in the last 2 years 10 new schools have opened. That is the definition of 10 folds increase, right?
 
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R2pharmD2 said:
And here I was thinking this thread had been successfully derailed into a "what makes a good pet" debate. I'm disappointed.
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I know. :(

We went from a great discussion of rats and tails and turtles to "more made up statistics from the negative naysayers."
 
Busta919 said:
Classic confused little boy response. At least it was not a bodily function demonstration:laugh:.


How long have you been waiting to post that link?
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Nah, it ain't like that. I just peruse the forums and if an opportunity presents itself, well who am I to not post a relavent link? :smuggrin:


Actually you can thank that God-awful show Tosh.0 - I saw it on that. I can't stand that show, but it has a great time slot. I almost always end up watching it for lack of anything else to watch. :laugh: I guess I sorta like it - it's a very guilty pleasure. :oops:
 
Busta919 said:
Classic confused little boy response. At least it was not a bodily function demonstration:laugh:.


How long have you been waiting to post that link?
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That is something I would expect my good friend crazybob to say. On the surface harmless, but with creepy overtones. :laugh:
 
owlegrad said:
That is something I would expect my good friend crazybob to say. On the surface harmless, but with creepy overtones. :laugh:
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I once was a young boy, and that is something that I would have done.:D

Not the zombie paint, just completely off the reservation with the question response.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
Now I can't quit giggling at that creepy kid. Husband is laughing too.
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The kids not creepy! The reporter just forgot to give the kid his line in advance. Turns out he had just came from an exhibit of turtles, so he had turtles on the brain. How was he supposed to know the reporter wanted him to say something about zombies or the fair?

The kid has braces now, poor little guy. Daniel had him on the show.
 
owlegrad said:
That is something I would expect my good friend crazybob to say. On the surface harmless, but with creepy overtones. :laugh:
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I can see these posts you know. I hope you haven't forgotten :laugh:

I know that just saying that part is also creepy :laugh:
 
SHC1984 said:
The OP is right in a way b/c pharmacy is no longer the way it use to be. The demand has dropped and the supply has increase by 10 folds. It is no longer a career that will give job security and money. It is like any regular career now. So you should only pursue it if you LOVE IT TO DEATH. If pharmacy is truely your passion and you love it more than anything else in the world and you wouldn't mind doing it for free (b/c you love it so much), then go for it. Do pharmacy.

But if you are just looking for a easy way to get rich, then pharmacy is no longer the career b/c it is NOT an easy way to get rich. The tuition is very expensive and the schooling is fairly intense. There are easier ways to get rich and people should pursue that instead.

I say this a million times and I will say it again. If you already have a fairly decent job that pays pretty good (not rich, but good enough like 50K to 70K a year) then I say just stick with it. There is a guy in my class that use to make 90K a year and now he is in pharmacy. That is stupid! If you already have a decent job that pays fairly well, JUST STICK WITH IT. If I was making 50K or 60K a year, I will STICK WITH THAT JOB. Please do not quit thinking pharmacy will equal a TON more money etc. That is just not true and funny to say the least! :laugh:

If you are 18 and got into a public pharmacy school and will come out with little to no debt and you are in LOVE with pharmacy then go for it. Good luck!

If you are older and already making 50K a year etc. then just stick with your job. Please don't look at pharmacy like it is going to make you the next Bill Gates. The job is saturated and you could end up with nothing but 150K in loans.
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:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Well said. I'm still surprised people are going into pharmacy with the way it is now... If you go into a field that pays less than pharmacy but takes less time and money to complete then you are probably much better off. 6 figure student loan debt will greatly reduce the amount of money you actually take home and it takes a while to pay off too. Even though you may be making around $100k/yr, you'd be surprised with how little you actually have left over after taxes and student loan payments.

If I was a pre-pharmacy student right now and just got accepted into an expensive private school there's no way I would go knowing what I know now. Hell I wouldn't even go to a public pharmacy school paying in state tuition knowing what I know now. Even if I got a full ride scholarship, it would probably be better to spend my time doing something besides pharmacy. I can't imagine what it must be like to have 6 figure student loan debt in an uncertain and saturated field like pharmacy. Why would anyone do pharmacy??? It's pretty scary actually (Like I mentioned before, I have a low student debt load...)

We're just trying to warn all the brainwashed pre-pharmers who can't see that going into pharmacy is not a very wise choice anymore. Trust me, you're going to be dissapointed with all the time and money you spend going to pharmacy school with no guarantees at the end.
 
Farmacist2011 said:
SHC1984 said:
There are easier ways to get rich and people should pursue that instead.
PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THESE EASIER WAYS ARE!!!!
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WORD!

One thing that I wish CERTAIN people would realize is that some people actually WANT TO BE PHARMACISTS. *gasp* Some people (like myself) have solid careers already ... I will agree that pharmacy isn't what it was years ago with respect to finances, the rampant amount of job opportunities, the sign on bonuses that you seem to talk so much about ... However, some people WANT TO BE PHARMACISTS, regardless of their location, the financial benefits, etc. because they enjoy the career. Now, if the career were to change, the story may be different, but that can not be predicted, regardless of what "logical economics" class one takes. I'm not going to choose my career for fear of it being obsolete, that's a ****ty way to live and if you have that type of predictive ability, you're in the wrong field regardless.

I make 50K+/year in the pharmaceutical industry, but you know what ... I enjoy patient counseling, I enjoy pharmaceutical research, I want to work in a hospital setting, etc. Therefore, your kvetching about how the industry isn't "as good as it was 4 years ago" doesn't have any impact on my choices. Honestly, it's still QUITE GOOD compared to many careers and your kvetching doesn't change that. For those who bitch about the prospects, I am very curious to know ... Did you work in the "real world" at a "real job" prior to entering school? If so and you're still kvetching, I'll give you some credit. Otherwise, you're reeking of entitlement for not knowing what the "real world" is like. Oh no, I have to job hunt! Oh no, I have student loan debt ... WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!

Now, I will give Somatic and his ilk credit ... telling people that the world isn't butterflies, fairies, and unicorns that shoot rainbows out of their arse can be helpful in deterring some people from thinking that it is a get rich quick career ... However, shooting down people who actually want to go into the profession is quite pointless. Furthermore, most people on SDN WANT TO BE PHARMACISTS for reasons other than financial perks, so you're preaching to a choir where your sermon doesn't really apply. It's like Kramer at the Apollo ... it's a receipe for EPIC FAIL.

I definitely understand your frustration; I was a bit miffed when I finished graduate school in Chemistry and I thought that I'd be able to walk out with my diploma and find a career making 75K/year and be done with it. However, that was definitely NOT the case. I had to bust my arse to find a pretty cruddy job for 2 years until I could transition to a better company, more chance for advancement, etc. It's how the world works.

Finally Somatic ... What are these get rich quick careers that you talk about so ardently? I'd love to hear what you think they are because there's a great chance that, much like pharmacy, those careers are "dying" as well. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
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Let me see stick to a job making right around 50k a year or go into pharm and make double that. Sorry I'm going for the pharm. I love how people complain about a 6 figure loan debt. Its not like pharms will be making 50k and still have that loan debt. Pharms get paid 6 figures and they'll have a substantial loan debt. Theres nothing wrong with that and its not overwhelming.

I'm in for the money...yeah I sold out...but I also love the idea of working in a hospital. To me 6 figures is a lot. I guess try living on around 50k a year and then tell me you wouldnt like to double that. 50k is not a lot.
 
nyc76 said:
I guess try living on around 50k a year and then tell me you wouldnt like to double that. 50k is not a lot.
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I probably wouldn't be enrolling if I made 50K. Try living on less than 30K and we'll talk about how fun that is.
 
Farmacist2011 said:
I probably wouldn't be enrolling if I made 50K. Try living on less than 30K and we'll talk about how fun that is.
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Seriously? LOL 50K equates to approximately 2800/month. Start adding in car payment, car insurance, homeowners insurance, mortgage, medical insurance, STUDENT LOAN PAYMENTS *groan* ... , etc. and it goes rather quickly. You can get by, but it's not the easiest thing in the world to do, especially if you are without family support.

If you are content with 50K, get your MS in Chemistry and work for big pharma.
 
Let me start off by saying that I have read most of this thread and my situation is very similar to that of the OP. I can say with confidence that I can vouch for most, not all, but most of what he has stated. Pharmacy is not what it once was. This is due mainly to the turning of the economy, established schools increasing their class sizes, and the opening of new schools by institutions that have no business opening a pharmacy school. I could go on and on about this, but I will try to keep it civil and focus on giving you pre-pharmers some advice.

First off, for those of you that really do enjoy pharmacy (chemguy) and think you know what you are getting yourselves into, good for you. The profession will always need and have room for people like you. But, for those of you who are looking for a guaranteed job right after graduation, an easy paycheck, and the "highlife" - you're in for a rude awakening.

Here is my advice. Avoid the new schools. Be prepared to work your ****ing ass off - both in and outside of the classroom. Be involved in several organizations and do at least some community service (1-2 days/month). I can say with certainty one thing that will absolutely put you head and shoulders above your peers is leadership. If you would like to work in a hospital or are hoping to do residency - work or volunteer at a hospital while you are in school. Prior hospital experience and leadership roles are definitely things that stand out on a CV. You can also expect to have 10-20 years worth of debt to pay off and someone ready to take your job the minute you can't do it or think you deserve more.

Payce
 
TimeZero said:
You can also expect to have someone ready to take your job the minute you can't do it or think you deserve more.

Payce
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Isn't that like 99% of every other god damn job in America? Just because a high demand occured because retail was expanding in the early 2000s, why does everyone think pharmacy should be immune from the problems for every other job... I really feel like you pharmacy students are the naive ones. You complain the schools lie to you. Well did they contact you and beg you to apply or did you seek them out? Why do you think they grill you during the interview on your pharmacy experience and what your career goals are. Why do you think everyone recommends shadowing and talking to professionals in the field before making a decision?
 
Farmacist2011 said:
Isn't that like 99% of every other god damn job in America? Just because a high demand occured because retail was expanding in the early 2000s, why does everyone think pharmacy should be immune from the problems for every other job... I really feel like you pharmacy students are the naive ones. You complain the schools lie to you. Well did they contact you and beg you to apply or did you seek them out? Why do you think they grill you during the interview on your pharmacy experience and what your career goals are. Why do you think everyone recommends shadowing and talking to professionals in the field before making a decision?
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Uh, the pharmacy schools do beg you to come. I know that my school is notorious for showing up at undergraduate campuses and brainwashing pre-meds and pre-dentals to go into pharmacy instead. They even accept students who never set their foot in a pharmacy. It's because pharmacy schools want to make big money off of you! They will sell you ideas about how great that profession is and what you can do out there with a PharmD. degree. Of course, they're not going to mention anything negative about the field. Forget about the whole idea about baby boomers retiring. A lot of pharmacists who are old enough to retire aren't retiring. That's what's keeping new grads from finding jobs. Our country exponentially chugs out pharmacy grads to the point that there will never be a pharmacy shortage like there once was.
 
Farmacist2011 said:
Isn't that like 99% of every other god damn job in America? Just because a high demand occured because retail was expanding in the early 2000s, why does everyone think pharmacy should be immune from the problems for every other job... I really feel like you pharmacy students are the naive ones. You complain the schools lie to you. Well did they contact you and beg you to apply or did you seek them out? Why do you think they grill you during the interview on your pharmacy experience and what your career goals are. Why do you think everyone recommends shadowing and talking to professionals in the field before making a decision?
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Bolded is the important part.

So true.:thumbup:
 
Farmacist2011 said:
Isn't that like 99% of every other god damn job in America? Just because a high demand occured because retail was expanding in the early 2000s, why does everyone think pharmacy should be immune from the problems for every other job... I really feel like you pharmacy students are the naive ones. You complain the schools lie to you. Well did they contact you and beg you to apply or did you seek them out? Why do you think they grill you during the interview on your pharmacy experience and what your career goals are. Why do you think everyone recommends shadowing and talking to professionals in the field before making a decision?
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Yea it is true, but most who are not in the profession are UNAWARE that the job market for pharmacists is just as bad as every other "god damn" job market.
 
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