My advice to pre-pharmers

Make the most of your gap year with our MSPN program.
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
nyc76 said:
Let me see stick to a job making right around 50k a year or go into pharm and make double that. Sorry I'm going for the pharm. I love how people complain about a 6 figure loan debt. Its not like pharms will be making 50k and still have that loan debt. Pharms get paid 6 figures and they'll have a substantial loan debt. Theres nothing wrong with that and its not overwhelming.

I'm in for the money...yeah I sold out...but I also love the idea of working in a hospital. To me 6 figures is a lot. I guess try living on around 50k a year and then tell me you wouldnt like to double that. 50k is not a lot.
Click to expand...

You sound like someone that has NEVER taken a math or economics class before in your life! :laugh:

If someone started out making 50K a year they would most likely surpass a pharmacist's salary by the time YOU graduate from pharmacy school. Have you ever heard of raises and bonuses before?

You can't just look at the money (BEFORE taxes) and say...WOW 100K is a lot of money. You have to look at it AFTER taxes and STUDENT LOANS. People kind of forget those two things. After taxes and student loans you will end up with LESS money than someone that just makes 50K WITHOUT any student loans. Sure they only make 50K or 70K a year, BUT 1) they didn't spent 4 years in pharmacy school and taking out 150K in student loans 2) they were MAKING $$$$$ while YOU are in school and 3) their job includes raises and bonuses...retail pharmacy have very little raises...there is a ceiling cap actually and once you hit it thats it.

Oh and last thing...if you took out 150K in student loans, you will be paying back waaaaaaaay more than 150K (it's simple math, but you seem like you don't know much about it). Just expect to pay back $2 for every $1 you borrow.
 
Somatic said:
:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Well said. I'm still surprised people are going into pharmacy with the way it is now... If you go into a field that pays less than pharmacy but takes less time and money to complete then you are probably much better off. 6 figure student loan debt will greatly reduce the amount of money you actually take home and it takes a while to pay off too. Even though you may be making around $100k/yr, you'd be surprised with how little you actually have left over after taxes and student loan payments.

If I was a pre-pharmacy student right now and just got accepted into an expensive private school there's no way I would go knowing what I know now. Hell I wouldn't even go to a public pharmacy school paying in state tuition knowing what I know now. Even if I got a full ride scholarship, it would probably be better to spend my time doing something besides pharmacy. I can't imagine what it must be like to have 6 figure student loan debt in an uncertain and saturated field like pharmacy. Why would anyone do pharmacy??? It's pretty scary actually (Like I mentioned before, I have a low student debt load...)

We're just trying to warn all the brainwashed pre-pharmers who can't see that going into pharmacy is not a very wise choice anymore. Trust me, you're going to be dissapointed with all the time and money you spend going to pharmacy school with no guarantees at the end.
Click to expand...


I am NOT saying to aviod pharmacy and NEVER consider it. I am just saying:

1) if you already have a nice job that pays fairly decent 50K to 70K a year, you have a nice house, nice car etc. Your life is pretty nice, you are content etc. Then continue with your life. People that quit their 50K a year or 70K a year job to come to pharmacy is WASTING THEIR TIME AND MONEY. Mathematically speaking, it doesn't make any sense.

2) If you are 18 years old, you LOVE pharmacy more than anything in the world, and somehow you got into a public school OR you got a full scholarship somewhere and you won't have to take out any debt...then by all means go for it!

3) I think it is okay to go into pharmacy if your debt will be small or if you will graduate with no debt. I mean if you have no debt you have nothing to lose, BUT then again there is your time...BUT if you really LOVE pharmacy then go for it.

4) I agree with you that I will never take out 150K or 200K for pharmacy school now. I will be 80K in debt when I get out and that is already TOO damn much.

Overall, I agree with you except I think if someone is young, really LOVES pharmacy and is able to get out without debt, then pharmacy is still OKAY for them to pursue.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
SHC1984 said:
You sound like someone that has NEVER taken a math or economics class before in your life! :laugh:

If someone started out making 50K a year they would most likely surpass a pharmacist's salary by the time YOU graduate from pharmacy school. Have you ever heard of raises and bonuses before?

You can't just look at the money (BEFORE taxes) and say...WOW 100K is a lot of money. You have to look at it AFTER taxes and STUDENT LOANS. People kind of forget those two things. After taxes and student loans you will end up with LESS money than someone that just makes 50K WITHOUT any student loans. Sure they only make 50K or 70K a year, BUT 1) they didn't spent 4 years in pharmacy school and taking out 150K in student loans 2) they were MAKING $$$$$ while YOU are in school and 3) their job includes raises and bonuses...retail pharmacy have very little raises...there is a ceiling cap actually and once you hit it thats it.

Oh and last thing...if you took out 150K in student loans, you will be paying back waaaaaaaay more than 150K (it's simple math, but you seem like you don't know much about it). Just expect to pay back $2 for every $1 you borrow.
Click to expand...

Make assumptions much?
You are making a huge assumption that the raises that are offered are far in excess of the 1.5 - 3% that is generally seen by someone in that wage category.
You are making a huge assumption that there are bonuses at the end of every year.
FYI, 2006 I received my last raise which took me to 75K. Then the economy started slumping. First hits were health insurance. I was fortunate prior to this that I did not have to contribute to insurance. Slump a little further, no raise the next year, no bonus (largest bonus I had recieved was $1500, it was not expected and I certainly didn't count on it for my income), had to pay more for healthcare (still not as much as hourly people were paying). Next year, more contribution to healthcare, no raise, no bonus. 2009, had to take a 10% pay cut, work load increased at least, no raise for obvious reasons, cut way back on healthcare but still was a hit. Each year stuff costs just a little bit more. Figure overall 20% for taxes off the top. Don't forget to subtract all those little life annoyances.... car payment, gasoline, heat/cooling, electricity/gas, water/sewer, phone, cable, internet, food, clothing, entertainment, household expenses....
I am choosing this profession so that I can utilize my MS in Chemistry. I also want a stability in my profession. Healthcare is always in need.

Will this absolutely work out? Who knows. Everyone is speculating. I have many directions I can follow once I have achieved the PharmD. If it doesn't, well, I still have a MS in Chemistry and I would also have a PharD. That is opportunity cost. Everything costs something, be it money or time. You have to give up something to pursue opportunity. I don't think anyone is approaching this with the assumption that there will be no debt at the other end of this pursuit. Even if you are offered $200K, you would still have the debt to repay.
 
SHC1984 said:
There are easier ways to get rich and people should pursue that instead.

WORD!

One thing that I wish CERTAIN people would realize is that some people actually WANT TO BE PHARMACISTS. *gasp* Some people (like myself) have solid careers already ... I will agree that pharmacy isn't what it was years ago with respect to finances, the rampant amount of job opportunities, the sign on bonuses that you seem to talk so much about ... However, some people WANT TO BE PHARMACISTS, regardless of their location, the financial benefits, etc. because they enjoy the career.
Click to expand...

This. There are a lot of other jobs that make more money or require less time investment education-wise. I don't want to do them, because I want to be a pharmacist. I could have applied to medical, dental, nursing, etc. school but I didn't because I don't want to do those things. You literally could not pay me enough to do some of the things I see doctors and nurses having to do. If you offered me a million dollars a year to be a nurse, I still don't think I could do it or force myself to want to do it.

I'll even say that I enjoy being "just" a pharmacy tech right now, and if I hadn't gotten accepted to pharmacy school, I'd keep doing it because it would take me awhile to figure out what other career I'd want to pursue. I own my own home and have a car payment, as well as all the other expenses of daily life, and yet somehow I'm not starving in the street and am able to take a nice vacation every summer. And that's on a job making a fraction of what a pharmacist makes, even AFTER taxes and loan payments. I'm very grateful to work in a field where I wake up genuinely excited to go to work every day, while still being able to live a comfortable lifestyle.

As long as you're not struggling to make ends meet so badly that you can't enjoy the rest of your life, I don't think you can put a price on job satisfaction. If you're fulfilled in your career and live a reasonably comfortable life, then what else do you really want? Obviously I realize some people feel differently, and maybe they should reconsider their choices if they're doing pharmacy just to make a ton of money. But I don't think people are naive or stupid or being misled for pursuing pharmacy, because some people just genuinely like it.
 
SHC1984 said:
You sound like someone that has NEVER taken a math or economics class before in your life! :laugh:

If someone started out making 50K a year they would most likely surpass a pharmacist's salary by the time YOU graduate from pharmacy school. Have you ever heard of raises and bonuses before?

You can't just look at the money (BEFORE taxes) and say...WOW 100K is a lot of money. You have to look at it AFTER taxes and STUDENT LOANS. People kind of forget those two things. After taxes and student loans you will end up with LESS money than someone that just makes 50K WITHOUT any student loans. Sure they only make 50K or 70K a year, BUT 1) they didn't spent 4 years in pharmacy school and taking out 150K in student loans 2) they were MAKING $$$$$ while YOU are in school and 3) their job includes raises and bonuses...retail pharmacy have very little raises...there is a ceiling cap actually and once you hit it thats it.

Oh and last thing...if you took out 150K in student loans, you will be paying back waaaaaaaay more than 150K (it's simple math, but you seem like you don't know much about it). Just expect to pay back $2 for every $1 you borrow.
Click to expand...

I love the irony here. I don't think I even need to explain :laugh:
 
R2pharmD2 said:
I love the irony here. I don't think I even need to explain :laugh:
Click to expand...


I know. I was going to challenge that claim earlier and then I realized it's unnecessary and unfair. Too easy. But OMGWTFLOL!?! I have *got* to sign up for the job that goes from 50K --> 120K in four years. That's hot!
 
I was just on here doing some reading and stumbled across this thread. Just felt the strong need to sign up and weigh in on the topic.

I'm not any kind of student yet, I attended a community college about 10 years ago. I earned about 40 credits and then my parents earned too much one year, I lost financial aid and that was the end of that. (Long story short, parents don't care about college and didn't support that at all)

When I lost my financial aid, I took the best job I could find at the moment. Disappointingly, it was an overnight stocking job at a Walmart. I started at $8.50 an hour and worked full time. Despite what you may hear about available benefits at Walmart, in all reality the 'health insurance' they have is not attainable for most employees. I had the health insurance plan back when you could still afford to pay for it out of your earnings and still have some take home pay. I broke my arm and had to pay $5000 out of pocket AFTER the insurance paid their measly portion. It would have cost me less to just go in without insurance and then I would have qualified for a payment plan. Because I had insurance, I didn't qualify for a payment plan with the hospital and they were threatening to send my account to collections if I didn't pay within 30 days. So, I put it on a credit card to preserve my credit.

Funny thing is, $5000 on a credit card when you only make about $15,000 in take home pay is a lot. While $5000 isn't much, fact of the matter is you already couldn't afford basic necessities like a car that functions and decent clothing to wear for interviews to try to get a better job.

Fast forward 7 years. Wow, now I'm making a whopping $12 an hour at Walmart as a middle manager. Any dreams of moving into upper management are gone because now they only hire college graduates for those positions with exception of a couple token employees so that they can still say they 'promote from within'.

That $5000 in credit card debt didn't go away. It slowly grew because just about no one can live on less than $20,000 a year. The only way it works is if nothing bad ever happens to you. That cheap beater car needs a new water pump, well, it goes on a card. Heating oil goes up in price, well, the thermostat's set at 40 degrees and you still can't afford that so it goes on a card.

Then, 3 years ago when it all started hitting the fan, I was laid off 2 days before Christmas with a bunch of other employees so that Walmart could boost 4th quarter numbers. I wasn't laid off by a person, I was randomly selected by a computer at corporate.

Interesting thing is, with the current economic state, Walmart has realized they can do better for their money. They have a new policy, if your laid off from or quit Walmart and come back more than 60 days later they can start you off at 'base rate' all over again.

I was called back to work 62 days later and offered my job back for $7.00 an hour. Yes, that's $1.50 less per hour than I started at 10 years ago. I walked out, but many of my old coworkers stayed and took the minimum wage offer.

I know this is a long story, but, I felt obligated to share it. To me, even if the standard retail pharmacists income drops to $60,000 per year it is still worth attending. Why? Heck, it's one of the few jobs that can't be outsourced.

My husband is a welder. Seven years ago he was earning $25 an hour. Today, he can't find a job for over $11 an hour because most manufacturing jobs have either outsourced to China or gone out of business completely. Even that measly $11 an hour job isn't a year round thing. They run out of contracts and he gets laid off and then called back. Last year he only worked 6 months of the year.

The only good thing to come of all of this is that there is a state university nearby with reasonable tuition and being completely impoverished means that you qualify for a lot more aid. My goal is to get into the pharmacy program. It probably won't happen, but, I'm working hard to try to get there. The only thing really in my favor is my 4.0 in high school and my 3.5 for the 40 hours I did in community college. I realize that's probably not enough.

I've submitted over 500 applications over the last 2 years and haven't even been able to find a minimum wage job. Before you assume that my work record must be terrible, I submit my 7 years of employment reviews that were all "exceeds expectations" and all my special letters from district managers and other higher ups when I won production awards.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the job field is tough on pretty much every level. I doubt that there's really any profession at the moment that doesn't require a substantial amount of effort to land a job. Around here, nurses had spades of available sign on bonuses 10 years ago. But, recently the local hospital had to lay off nurses because they lost some funding. Nursing will probably be back in demand again at some point, but, really no one is in demand right now due to hiring freezes at many places.

Yes, education is expensive and nothing is guaranteed. But, pharmacy still seems like a very solid gamble. Didn't the length of time you had to attend increase in the last few years? I want to say that my cousin only has a bachelors in pharmacy and works as a pharmacist. It would seem like the length of time alone might be a discouragement.

Anyways, I'm not feeling very 'talked out of' pursuing pharmacy. What I was paying in interest on credit cards that I used to buy things like gas and food is still more than I would have been paying on a $100,000 student loan.

I guess on the bright side, I've gotten a lot better at living on nothing. We earned $12,000 last year, still managed to pay rent, paid off our ancient car and didn't use anything in the way of government assistance other than my husbands unemployment for when he was laid off.

So, yes, to someone like me, having to spend a while looking for a job, potentially having to relocate and having a student loan still really doesn't sound all that scary. My current reality is a lot scarier.

After my long stint in low paying retail the idea of retail pharmacy is not daunting at all.
 
Jennifer, these kids are entitled twits that haven't had a dose of reality beyond their internet being down for a couple hours and not being able to refresh their BragBook.

I give :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: to your entire post.
 
SHC1984 said:
If someone started out making 50K a year they would most likely surpass a pharmacist's salary by the time YOU graduate from pharmacy school. Have you ever heard of raises and bonuses before?
Click to expand...

I don't know who is getting 10% raises and huge bonuses, but I can tell you under 3% is VERY COMMON and GASP some people don't get ANY bonuses. One year my health insurance went up and the amount I have to contribute went up here's the kicker; my ****ty raise barely covered the increase and I think I ended up getting only 5 more bucks a week. And with inflation I bet in 4 years I will be closer to being worse off than doubling my salary. 50K to 100K in 4 years!? How delusional are YOU? :laugh:

Jennifer's story is something called REALITY and something a few people in here need to get in touch with.

AND I'm still waiting for a list of easier ways to make a comparable living to that of a pharmacist...
 
Farmacist2011 said:
I don't know who is getting 10% raises and huge bonuses, but I can tell you under 3% is VERY COMMON and GASP some people don't get ANY bonuses. One year my health insurance went up and the amount I have to contribute went up here's the kicker; my ****ty raise barely covered the increase and I think I ended up getting only 5 more bucks a week. And with inflation I bet in 4 years I will be closer to being worse off than doubling my salary. 50K to 100K in 4 years!? How delusional are YOU? :laugh:

Jennifer's story is something called REALITY and something a few people in here need to get in touch with.

AND I'm still waiting for a list of easier ways to make a comparable living to that of a pharmacist...
Click to expand...

Don't hold your breath on that one :laugh:
 
I hope you don't mind me saying Jennifer, your story is exactly what got me to got back to school for pharmacy. I worked at Winn Dixie for 7-8 years and one day I just realized - I could work for Winn Dixie my whole life and never make decent money. Every grocery store is full of lifers who never make it above dept. manager or asst. manager. Your job is never secure, they always want to cut hours/salary. It's terrible, and most people just don't get it. I got to know the pharmacist there and he encouraged me to apply to pharm school, so I did. And I am so, so glad I did.

Good Luck to you! :luck:
 
Members don't see this ad :)
SHC1984 said:
If someone started out making 50K a year they would most likely surpass a pharmacist's salary by the time YOU graduate from pharmacy school. Have you ever heard of raises and bonuses before?
Click to expand...
Wow double your pay in 4 years?:laugh:
 
JenniferinFL: Wow, that is a brave post! Congratulations to you for working past so many roadblocks. :thumbup: I know you would make an excellent, empathetic pharmacist. I certainly hope it happens for you (and I'm sure you can make it a reality for yourself).

It's unfortunate that so many people have no idea what the realities of life can be like without education or the hope of moving up in the world. A few years of life experience outside of school can really change one's perspective.
 
It doesn't matter how much exactly is the raise here. The point is...(let me draw a picture out for you people)

Person A: makes 50K or 70K a year, but he doesn't have any debt at all. He pretty much keeps all the money that he makes. He already has a house and car etc b/c he has been working his entire life and didn't go to 6 or 8 years of school after high school like pharmacy students did. His raises might not be a lot but he does get them. Overall, he has been enjoying life, doesn't have to life like a college student for 8 years after high school, got to relax and go out (don't have to study till midnight for exams), gets to keep most of the money he makes b/c he doesn't owe 150K+ from going to 6 or 8 years of school after high school.

Person B: decided to go to pharmacy school! didn't make any money at all for 6 to 8 years of his life after high school b/c he was in school! He rack up 150K to 200K (by the way will be paying back much more than that since there is interest on those loans accruing since day 1), studies till midnight, don't get to relax b/c there are millions of exams to study for, and will be living like a college student during that time too! Will graduate with 150K to 200K in debt and thats only student loans we haven't included all the other stuff yet! Will have a hard time landing a job b/c of the job market and might even have to take a paycut b/c of the surplus of pharmacists out there! Yes, his pay is 100K or 120K a year! That sounds great right? BUT don't forget the 150K to 200K debt you owe PLUS interest, that you will be paying back. ALSO don't forget that now that you are making 100K a year, Uncle Sam thinks you are "too rich" so he will be taking out at least 30% of it in taxes! ;) After that 30%+ in taxes and 200K student loan debt that you have to pay back AND don't forget your 401K and other things to pay for etc.

DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU ARE BETTER OFF THAN PERSON A that didn't go to pharmacy school? :laugh:

It doesn't matter how much raise person A has gotten or didn't get. The point is...after all that tax burden and student loans, do you really think you will be rich OR be better off than someone that just went straight to the work force and worked their entire life? I don't think so.
 
SHC1984 said:
It doesn't matter how much exactly is the raise here. The point is...(let me draw a picture out for you people)

Person A: makes 50K or 70K a year, but he doesn't have any debt at all. He pretty much keeps all the money that he makes. He already has a house and car etc b/c he has been working his entire life and didn't go to 6 or 8 years of school after high school like pharmacy students did. His raises might not be a lot but he does get them. Overall, he has been enjoying life, doesn't have to life like a college student for 8 years after high school, got to relax and go out (don't have to study till midnight for exams), gets to keep most of the money he makes b/c he doesn't owe 150K+ from going to 6 or 8 years of school after high school.

Person B: decided to go to pharmacy school! didn't make any money at all for 6 to 8 years of his life after high school b/c he was in school! He rack up 150K to 200K (by the way will be paying back much more than that since there is interest on those loans accruing since day 1), studies till midnight, don't get to relax b/c there are millions of exams to study for, and will be living like a college student during that time too! Will graduate with 150K to 200K in debt and thats only student loans we haven't included all the other stuff yet! Will have a hard time landing a job b/c of the job market and might even have to take a paycut b/c of the surplus of pharmacists out there! Yes, his pay is 100K or 120K a year! That sounds great right? BUT don't forget the 150K to 200K debt you owe PLUS interest, that you will be paying back. ALSO don't forget that now that you are making 100K a year, Uncle Sam thinks you are "too rich" so he will be taking out at least 30% of it in taxes! ;) After that 30%+ in taxes and 200K student loan debt that you have to pay back AND don't forget your 401K and other things to pay for etc.

DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU ARE BETTER OFF THAN PERSON A that didn't go to pharmacy school? :laugh:

It doesn't matter how much raise person A has gotten or didn't get. The point is...after all that tax burden and student loans, do you really think you will be rich OR be better off than someone that just went straight to the work force and worked their entire life? I don't think so.
Click to expand...
I've never met a person who was only a high school grad who made 50 to 70k right out of high school. Just something to contemplate. Also, somebody with 50k to 70k is also paying taxes and putting money in a 401k. Your arguments are terrible. Give up already.

I've actually done the spreadsheet math on all this and determined that yes, I would be better off going to pharm school. Over the course of a 40 year work life, the financial and intangible benefits of going back to school significantly outweigh the negatives for me.
 
Last edited:
SHC1984 said:
It doesn't matter how much exactly is the raise here. The point is...(let me draw a picture out for you people)

Person A: makes 50K or 70K a year, but he doesn't have any debt at all. He pretty much keeps all the money that he makes. He already has a house and car etc b/c he has been working his entire life and didn't go to 6 or 8 years of school after high school like pharmacy students did. His raises might not be a lot but he does get them. Overall, he has been enjoying life, doesn't have to life like a college student for 8 years after high school, got to relax and go out (don't have to study till midnight for exams), gets to keep most of the money he makes b/c he doesn't owe 150K+ from going to 6 or 8 years of school after high school.

Person B: decided to go to pharmacy school! didn't make any money at all for 6 to 8 years of his life after high school b/c he was in school! He rack up 150K to 200K (by the way will be paying back much more than that since there is interest on those loans accruing since day 1), studies till midnight, don't get to relax b/c there are millions of exams to study for, and will be living like a college student during that time too! Will graduate with 150K to 200K in debt and thats only student loans we haven't included all the other stuff yet! Will have a hard time landing a job b/c of the job market and might even have to take a paycut b/c of the surplus of pharmacists out there! Yes, his pay is 100K or 120K a year! That sounds great right? BUT don't forget the 150K to 200K debt you owe PLUS interest, that you will be paying back. ALSO don't forget that now that you are making 100K a year, Uncle Sam thinks you are "too rich" so he will be taking out at least 30% of it in taxes! ;) After that 30%+ in taxes and 200K student loan debt that you have to pay back AND don't forget your 401K and other things to pay for etc.

DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU ARE BETTER OFF THAN PERSON A that didn't go to pharmacy school? :laugh:

It doesn't matter how much raise person A has gotten or didn't get. The point is...after all that tax burden and student loans, do you really think you will be rich OR be better off than someone that just went straight to the work force and worked their entire life? I don't think so.
Click to expand...

Do you honestly think it's easy for somebody to get a 50-70k job with only a high school diploma? Even if you're saying that they work their way up to that point, how many years do you think it would take to reach that point for your typical high school diploma holding individual (if they ever do)? How does this individual get his house and car without taking on any debt? Do you know how long it takes most people to pay off a mortgage?

I would ask if you're joking, but at this point I guess I should know better :laugh:
 
MATH FAIL.

Scenario A:
High school grad making 50K/year (yeah, right) from age 18 to age 65... Total salary = $2,350,000

Scenario B:
Pharmacy grad making 100K/year from age 25 to 65...
Total salary = $4,000,000

Even minus a significant student loan debt, the person in Scenario B comes out ahead. PLUS the majority of high school graduates will NOT obtain jobs that pay 50K+ per year. Those that do probably started out at $8/hour and worked their way up to 50K by their mid 30's at the soonest. I really think that I've vastly overestimated the earning potential of the person in Scenario A.

I just simplified things greatly because some folks around here don't seem to get it. Or maybe there ARE highly lucrative careers available to those with just a high school diploma. :shrug:

And before someone brings up taxes again... I think the 50K person is in a 25% tax bracket while the 100K person pays 28%. So it's not like one has a HUGE tax burden and the other pays nothing in taxes. :rolleyes:
 
R2pharmD2 said:
Do you honestly think it's easy for somebody to get a 50-70k job with only a high school diploma? Even if you're saying that they work their way up to that point, how many years do you think it would take to reach that point for your typical high school diploma holding individual (if they ever do)? How does this individual get his house and car without taking on any debt? Do you know how long it takes most people to pay off a mortgage?

I would ask if you're joking, but at this point I guess I should know better :laugh:
Click to expand...

Maybe she means after 6-8 years, these people are more likely to have between 50-70K in CREDIT CARD DEBT! I wish the 7 bucks an hour I was making when I graduated highschool was enough for a new car and house. I would take that 250 dollar a week paycheck and laugh at all those silly pre-pharms. And 6 years later when I'm flaunting my 400 dollar paycheck and 20K in credit card debt we would see how much better off I was.
 
pharmschooler said:
I've never met a person who was only a high school grad who made 50 to 70k right out of high school. Just something to contemplate. Also, somebody with 50k to 70k is also paying taxes and putting money in a 401k. Your arguments are terrible. Give up already.

I've actually done the spreadsheet math on all this and determined that yes, I would be better off going to pharm school. Over the course of a 40 year work life, the financial and intangible benefits of going back to school significantly outweigh the negatives for me.
Click to expand...

There seems to be quite a bit of evidence that pharmacy as a profession may not even exist in 40 years or if it does it will be significantly downsized and probably low paying as well. It's so naive to assume pharmacists will continue to be paid well in the future! I have read a lot of articles in pharmacy magazines from APhA, NACDS, etc that say the dispensing aspect by human pharmacists will be completely replaced by robots within 5-10 years!! Dispensing is a huge part of what we do. If this goes away there will be countless numbers of unemployed pharmacists. Oh and I know many clinical pharmacists who are also uneasy about their future and are always in fear of losing their job even though they never dispense. Yes we are trained to do more than dispense meds but really other health practioners seem to be against us taking on bigger roles such as disease state management, MTM, etc. So yeah one thing I have learned is that pharmacy is not as secure of a field as you may think!
 
Somatic said:
There seems to be quite a bit of evidence that pharmacy as a profession may not even exist in 40 years or if it does it will be significantly downsized and probably low paying as well. It's so naive to assume pharmacists will continue to be paid well in the future! I have read a lot of articles in pharmacy magazines from APhA, NACDS, etc that say the dispensing aspect by human pharmacists will be completely replaced by robots within 5-10 years!! Dispensing is a huge part of what we do. If this goes away there will be countless numbers of unemployed pharmacists. Oh and I know many clinical pharmacists who are also uneasy about their future and are always in fear of losing their job even though they never dispense. Yes we are trained to do more than dispense meds but really other health practioners seem to be against us taking on bigger roles such as disease state management, MTM, etc. So yeah one thing I have learned is that pharmacy is not as secure of a field as you may think!
Click to expand...
You're right, it's not a totally secure field. But neither is my current field. Perhaps you could let me know which field is totally secure and will pay a living wage, so I may pursue it in the future? :confused: :rolleyes:
 
Maybe you don't find a job in exactly the place you want to work, doing exactly what you want to do, making exactly the salary you want straight out of school. What makes you think that was a reasonable expectation in the first place, regardless of what field you're in?

If people would stop acting like such short-sighted entitlement cows, maybe they would realize how they come across when they're whining about having to actually try when it comes to finding employment. I hate my generation sometimes. Work hard, get experience and skills (and an attitude) that will make you stand out to employers, and quit expecting to have everything handed to you. And get off my lawn.
 
Somatic said:
There seems to be quite a bit of evidence that pharmacy as a profession may not even exist in 40 years or if it does it will be significantly downsized and probably low paying as well. It's so naive to assume pharmacists will continue to be paid well in the future! I have read a lot of articles in pharmacy magazines from APhA, NACDS, etc that say the dispensing aspect by human pharmacists will be completely replaced by robots within 5-10 years!! Dispensing is a huge part of what we do. If this goes away there will be countless numbers of unemployed pharmacists. Oh and I know many clinical pharmacists who are also uneasy about their future and are always in fear of losing their job even though they never dispense. Yes we are trained to do more than dispense meds but really other health practioners seem to be against us taking on bigger roles such as disease state management, MTM, etc. So yeah one thing I have learned is that pharmacy is not as secure of a field as you may think!
Click to expand...

I would love to see these articles, Somatic. Do you have any links? Surely there must be links since you have read "a lot of articles in pharmacy magazines."

Somatic, you may have some interesting points, but you also talk out of your arse frequently and it makes the rest of your points lose any sort of credibility.
 
chemguy79 said:
I would love to see these articles, Somatic. Do you have any links? Surely there must be links since you have read "a lot of articles in pharmacy magazines."

Somatic, you may have some interesting points, but you also talk out of your arse frequently and it makes the rest of your points lose any sort of credibility.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY! :thumbup:

I have to wonder about all these pharmacy students who don't seem to have even the faintest idea what constitutes "evidence" or how to frame an argument or make a point without resorting to hyperbole or just plain making things up. I want to see the source that says pharmacy will be gone in 40 years, and it had better not be that pop culture article about robots that someone posted recently. :laugh:
 
SHC1984 said:
You sound like someone that has NEVER taken a math or economics class before in your life! :laugh:

If someone started out making 50K a year they would most likely surpass a pharmacist's salary by the time YOU graduate from pharmacy school. Have you ever heard of raises and bonuses before?
Click to expand...

Boy you sound like someone that has NEVER lived in the real world in your life! :laugh:

Other than maybe a stock broker or lawyer I have never heard of a job that gives you close to a 15k dollar raise every year. Depending on the job a person starting out at 50k will be lucky to ever see 100k. Of course it depends on the job.

SHC1984 said:
You can't just look at the money (BEFORE taxes) and say...WOW 100K is a lot of money. You have to look at it AFTER taxes and STUDENT LOANS. People kind of forget those two things. After taxes and student loans you will end up with LESS money than someone that just makes 50K WITHOUT any student loans. Sure they only make 50K or 70K a year, BUT 1) they didn't spent 4 years in pharmacy school and taking out 150K in student loans 2) they were MAKING $$$$$ while YOU are in school and 3) their job includes raises and bonuses...retail pharmacy have very little raises...there is a ceiling cap actually and once you hit it thats it.
Click to expand...

Again what a ridiculous argument. You don't want to make a lot of money because you'll pay a lot of taxes. Plus you assume that a person starting out at 50K doesn't have student loans already. Its very rare the job that will give a high school graduate a 50k a year job. That being the case it means you must've gone to college and if you haven't noticed, going undergrad in this country isn't free. So now you're a college grad with a hefty amount of loans plus you're only making 50k and chances are you aren't getting 15k dollar raises.

SHC1984 said:
Oh and last thing...if you took out 150K in student loans, you will be paying back waaaaaaaay more than 150K (it's simple math, but you seem like you don't know much about it). Just expect to pay back $2 for every $1 you borrow.
Click to expand...

That all depends on your repayment plan but again it seems you don't know much about real life. Plus making 100k you certainly have a lot more money to pay back your loans in a very timely fashion. The way you talk why would anyone go to graduate school then? Jesus get a clue.
 
Last edited:
SHC1984 said:
It doesn't matter how much raise person A has gotten or didn't get. The point is...after all that tax burden and student loans, do you really think you will be rich OR be better off than someone that just went straight to the work force and worked their entire life? I don't think so.
Click to expand...

Yeah now it doesnt matter what raise they get because your argument pretty much got laughed at. Most people aren't having their salary doubled in 4 years. They'll be lucky to EVER see their salary double...agian depending on the job. On top of that if theyre a college graduate they almost positively have loans from undergrad. So your whole picture of assumptions is completely garbage. Like I said before...try living in a place I call earth then get back to me. :laugh:
 
R2pharmD2 said:
Do you honestly think it's easy for somebody to get a 50-70k job with only a high school diploma? Even if you're saying that they work their way up to that point, how many years do you think it would take to reach that point for your typical high school diploma holding individual (if they ever do)? How does this individual get his house and car without taking on any debt? Do you know how long it takes most people to pay off a mortgage?

I would ask if you're joking, but at this point I guess I should know better :laugh:
Click to expand...


Exactly, let me tell you something I graduated back in 2001 with a polsci degree cuz it was what interested me. I went to Boston College which is a pretty expensive school. I graduated and must've had at least 50k worth of loans and thats because I only went there 2 years..imagine had I done my entire 4 years there. So here I am 23, no job and I have these loans. Luckily I get a job in politics but despite what John Boehner (Speaker of the House) says government workers don't get paid a lot. I certainly didn't start out at 50k. In fact it took me 10 YEARS to get from 30 to 50. On top of that you have loans and soon enough car payment and mortgage. I'm living paycheck to paycheck making 50k not married no kids.

Luckily all my debt is just about to be wiped out so once I start pharm school Ill be debt free except for some recent school loans. But a couple years ago I decided to make a decision to either go long term in politics or do something else that makes money. I'm a bit of a science geek so I looked there and after much research I felt pharm was best for me. The prospect of making 100k is very appealing no matter how many loans I'll have because I've already lived 10 years not making anything close to 100k and having the same amount of debt.
 
Farmacist2011 said:
I probably wouldn't be enrolling if I made 50K. Try living on less than 30K and we'll talk about how fun that is.
Click to expand...

I've done it beleive me. Its taken me a long road to get to 50k and its been a struggle. I also say 50 to make it a nice round number but its actually a little less than that.
 
To the pharmacy students who are talking about how difficult the job market is; Did you take off any time prior to applying to pharmacy school? Did you actually EXPERIENCE the job market prior to starting school?

If so, I SERIOUSLY doubt that you would be complaining as much about the field since the debt to income ratio is VERY similar between people who have their bachelor's degrees with student loan debt as it is with PharmD's and their student loan debt. Honestly, I believe that most students have a difficult time paying their loans out of school, especially without family support.

This thread will continue until the end of time, but it seems to me that Pharmacy students who didn't have experience in the real world prior to pharmacy school are bitching about situations that most people experience on a daily basis. If anything, I would LOVE for pharmacy schools to require students to have a bachelor's degree or hell, in the extreme, a year of experience post-graduation (Note: This is ignorant on my part and will NEVER happen) prior to enrolling so they would have a MUCH better understanding of how the world works. Their lack of perspective makes their complaints EXTREMELY hollow and, in my opinion, borderline ignorant.
 
chemguy79 said:
To the pharmacy students who are talking about how difficult the job market is; Did you take off any time prior to applying to pharmacy school? Did you actually EXPERIENCE the job market prior to starting school?

If so, I SERIOUSLY doubt that you would be complaining as much about the field since the debt to income ratio is VERY similar between people who have their bachelor's degrees with student loan debt as it is with PharmD's and their student loan debt. Honestly, I believe that most students have a difficult time paying their loans out of school, especially without family support.

This thread will continue until the end of time, but it seems to me that Pharmacy students who didn't have experience in the real world prior to pharmacy school are bitching about situations that most people experience on a daily basis. If anything, I would LOVE for pharmacy schools to require students to have a bachelor's degree or hell, in the extreme, a year of experience post-graduation (Note: This is ignorant on my part and will NEVER happen) prior to enrolling so they would have a MUCH better understanding of how the world works. Their lack of perspective makes their complaints EXTREMELY hollow and, in my opinion, borderline ignorant.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. And it isn't ignorant to think so... 10+ years ago, you couldn't get into a GOOD MBA program without having worked for a couple years. Now you have 25 year old PhD's and "social workers". Believe me... I saw a POST DOC student speak at a film screening last week. There was no way she was older than me AND she was clueless.
 
chemguy79 said:
To the pharmacy students who are talking about how difficult the job market is; Did you take off any time prior to applying to pharmacy school? Did you actually EXPERIENCE the job market prior to starting school?

If so, I SERIOUSLY doubt that you would be complaining as much about the field since the debt to income ratio is VERY similar between people who have their bachelor's degrees with student loan debt as it is with PharmD's and their student loan debt. Honestly, I believe that most students have a difficult time paying their loans out of school, especially without family support.

This thread will continue until the end of time, but it seems to me that Pharmacy students who didn't have experience in the real world prior to pharmacy school are bitching about situations that most people experience on a daily basis. If anything, I would LOVE for pharmacy schools to require students to have a bachelor's degree or hell, in the extreme, a year of experience post-graduation (Note: This is ignorant on my part and will NEVER happen) prior to enrolling so they would have a MUCH better understanding of how the world works. Their lack of perspective makes their complaints EXTREMELY hollow and, in my opinion, borderline ignorant.
Click to expand...

rxlea said:
I agree 100%. And it isn't ignorant to think so... 10+ years ago, you couldn't get into a GOOD MBA program without having worked for a couple years. Now you have 25 year old PhD's and "social workers". Believe me... I saw a POST DOC student speak at a film screening last week. There was no way she was older than me AND she was clueless.
Click to expand...

I understand where you guys are coming from, as someone who also spent a bit of time in the "real world" before jumping back into school. I don't think experience would help these people all that much though. Unless they're completely isolated from the rest of society, it's pretty tough to believe that they haven't heard about how difficult the job market is for everyone these days. You couldn't turn on the TV or open a newspaper without seeing it, although things do appear to be improving now. Apparently they've already chosen to ignore those facts and believe whatever they want to believe though.
 
I feel bad for naive pre-pharmers... The job market for pharmacists declined dramatically during my 4 years in pharmacy school. When we started pharmacy school, the dean promised us that we would all have jobs when we graduated but that's not the case for many in my class who are still struggling to find jobs and many had to take jobs in less than ideal locations. Well if it's this bad now, think of how bad it will be in 4-5 years after you guys bust your ass in pharm school and rack up a ridiculous amount of debt! Sorry guys but there will be WAY too many pharmacists. The number of pharmacists will greatly exceed the number of available positions. Supply and demand is so logical and straightforward. Not sure why you guys are struggling with it.
 
Somatic said:
I feel bad for naive pre-pharmers... The job market for pharmacists declined dramatically during my 4 years in pharmacy school. When we started pharmacy school, the dean promised us that we would all have jobs when we graduated but that's not the case for many in my class who are still struggling to find jobs and many had to take jobs in less than ideal locations. Well if it's this bad now, think of how bad it will be in 4-5 years after you guys bust your ass in pharm school and rack up a ridiculous amount of debt! Sorry guys but there will be WAY too many pharmacists. The number of pharmacists will greatly exceed the number of available positions. Supply and demand is so logical and straightforward. Not sure why you guys are struggling with it.
Click to expand...

Guys, seriously...

:troll:
 
Does anyone else think that Somatic is a spambot that has these pre-spliced "soundbites" that appear on SDN randomly after a certain number of posts are added to his thread?

Somatic's posts don't address anything that is actually in the thread nor do they make a great deal of sense. Moderators, I think that we have a spambot in our midst! If he starts posting about a Nigerian bank account, Russian mail order brides, or offers discounts on erectile dysfunction, don't say that I didn't warn you. :D
 
Passion4Sci said:
Guys, seriously...

:troll:
Click to expand...

Well sorry you can't face the truth about what we pharm students got ourselves into :rolleyes: Just trying to help others not make the same mistake :idea:
 
chemguy79 said:
Does anyone else think that Somatic is a spambot that has these pre-spliced "soundbites" that appear on SDN randomly after a certain number of posts are added to his thread?

Somatic's posts don't address anything that is actually in the thread nor do they make a great deal of sense. Moderators, I think that we have a spambot in our midst! If he starts posting about a Nigerian bank account, Russian mail order brides, or offers discounts on erectile dysfunction, don't say that I didn't warn you. :D
Click to expand...

He's just another in a long line of "SKY IS FALLING OMGGGGG" posters/trolls. =-/
 
chemguy79 said:
Does anyone else think that Somatic is a spambot that has these pre-spliced "soundbites" that appear on SDN randomly after a certain number of posts are added to his thread?

Somatic's posts don't address anything that is actually in the thread nor do they make a great deal of sense. Moderators, I think that we have a spambot in our midst! If he starts posting about a Nigerian bank account, Russian mail order brides, or offers discounts on erectile dysfunction, don't say that I didn't warn you. :D
Click to expand...

I'm real, I'm legit dude
 
Can't we all just be friends?
 
Could somebody just close this thread already? Seriously...I'm just not sure what else there is to say.
 
Don't hate on me y'all :eek:
 
pharmschooler said:
Could somebody just close this thread already? Seriously...I'm just not sure what else there is to say.
Click to expand...

Don't close it. There is some very important info on here that every pre-pharmer should know!
 
SHC1984 said:
It doesn't matter how much exactly is the raise here. The point is...(let me draw a picture out for you people)

Person A: makes 50K or 70K a year, but he doesn't have any debt at all. He pretty much keeps all the money that he makes. He already has a house and car etc b/c he has been working his entire life and didn't go to 6 or 8 years of school after high school like pharmacy students did. His raises might not be a lot but he does get them. Overall, he has been enjoying life, doesn't have to life like a college student for 8 years after high school, got to relax and go out (don't have to study till midnight for exams), gets to keep most of the money he makes b/c he doesn't owe 150K+ from going to 6 or 8 years of school after high school.

Person B: decided to go to pharmacy school! didn't make any money at all for 6 to 8 years of his life after high school b/c he was in school! He rack up 150K to 200K (by the way will be paying back much more than that since there is interest on those loans accruing since day 1), studies till midnight, don't get to relax b/c there are millions of exams to study for, and will be living like a college student during that time too! Will graduate with 150K to 200K in debt and thats only student loans we haven't included all the other stuff yet! Will have a hard time landing a job b/c of the job market and might even have to take a paycut b/c of the surplus of pharmacists out there! Yes, his pay is 100K or 120K a year! That sounds great right? BUT don't forget the 150K to 200K debt you owe PLUS interest, that you will be paying back. ALSO don't forget that now that you are making 100K a year, Uncle Sam thinks you are "too rich" so he will be taking out at least 30% of it in taxes! ;) After that 30%+ in taxes and 200K student loan debt that you have to pay back AND don't forget your 401K and other things to pay for etc.

DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU ARE BETTER OFF THAN PERSON A that didn't go to pharmacy school? :laugh:

It doesn't matter how much raise person A has gotten or didn't get. The point is...after all that tax burden and student loans, do you really think you will be rich OR be better off than someone that just went straight to the work force and worked their entire life? I don't think so.
Click to expand...

:love::love::love::love::love::love::love::love::love:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

The Recoverer
GUIDE on FINDING A Pharmacy Technician JOB for Pre-Pharmers (for dummies)
Replies
4
Views
3K
PA_dud3
PA_dud3
7.62x51
Question for Canadian Pre-Pharmers
Replies
0
Views
601
7.62x51
7.62x51
rxlea
  • Poll
How many pre-pharmers play/ed instruments?
Replies
32
Views
2K
PrePharmGirl
PrePharmGirl
T
[Help] Which magazines about science for pre-pharmer
Replies
9
Views
1K
owlegrad
owlegrad
S
I concede, help me my fellow pharmers.
Replies
14
Views
2K
evilolive
evilolive
Top