My Blood Has Boiled Too

[island doc]

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OK. It's time for me to go public with my story. Like MilMD, I too have a story to tell which makes my blood boil. Here it is:

The AF Times ran an article touting AFHPSP for active duty line officers. In the article a statement was made by AFPC that AFHPSP graduates would fulfill their ADSC after completion of residency. Being a GMO, I knew this was a boldfaced lie by AFPC. I sent a letter to the editor of the AF Times in response, in which I pointed out the false statement made by AFPC officials, which was published and distributed worldwide for all to see.

The retaliation and retribution by the AF against me was swift and severe. Soon after, charges were "trumped up" concerning patient care, along with "adverse action" proceedings. Which in reality was an attempt to inflict damage upon my professional reputation and future civilian medical career, because I already had separation orders. Over one year (after separation), and $5000 in civilian attorneys fees later-I prevailed in the legal battle with the AF to protect my professional reputation. I was exonerated.

Like MilMD's experience, when I think back on this it too makes my blood boil over to realize that I was punished with trumped up false charges simply for exercising my constitutional right to free speech in blowing the whistle on a lie.

 

[SquidDoc]

Wow. I guess the truth may not always set you free in the military. If I could be guaranteed to not have to serve my active time back until AFTER residency, I would be happy. Since this is a fantasy, I will remain bitter.🙂

I have set through lectures from senior Navy officers (JAG included) who promoted whistle blowing. Did you say anything bad about the AF in your letter to the editor?
Did your experience have any adverse affect on your career as a civ. doc?

 

[island doc]

Wow. I guess the truth may not always set you free in the military. If I could be guaranteed to not have to serve my active time back until AFTER residency, I would be happy. Since this is a fantasy, I will remain bitter.🙂

I have set through lectures from senior Navy officers (JAG included) who promoted whistle blowing. Did you say anything bad about the AF in your letter to the editor?
Did your experience have any adverse affect on your career as a civ. doc?

Didn't speak ill, just exposed the truth. Ultimately, no adverse effects on civ. career, because I defended myself aggressively.

 

[colbgw02]

Like MilMD's experience, when I think back on this it too makes my blood boil over to realize that I was punished with trumped up false charges simply for exercising my constitutional right to free speech in blowing the whistle on a lie.

i have no doubt that the air force was being heinously vindictive for absolutely no good reason. in fact, i really have no comment that is specific for this particular story. i'd just like to point out that in the military, one gives up rights - constitutional or otherwise - all the time. sometimes the forfeiture is written (reference: UCMJ); sometimes they're unwritten and unofficial. i'm not saying it's right...just the way it is.

 

[Mirror Form]

The retaliation and retribution by the AF against me was swift and severe. Soon after, charges were "trumped up" concerning patient care, along with "adverse action" proceedings. Which in reality was an attempt to inflict damage upon my professional reputation and future civilian medical career, because I already had separation orders.

The sad part is that this probably won't surprise most active duty military people one bit.

BTW, congrats on fighting the power and coming out okay!

 

[USAFdoc]

The sad part is that this probably won't surprise most active duty military people one bit.

BTW, congrats on fighting the power and coming out okay!

One story of mine (there are many), quickly, is that I was threatened as well, for speaking out about concerns for patient care. I was threatened to be kicked off the base (but they said that would be like a reward to me to be kicked off the base, so the "kept me", however, they then said that if I "said anything else" about what was going on, they would go through every chart of every pt I had ever seen, and "get me".

 

[USAFdoc]

One story of mine (there are many), quickly, is that I was threatened as well, for speaking out about concerns for patient care. I was threatened to be kicked off the base (but they said that would be like a reward to me to be kicked off the base, so the "kept me", however, they then said that if I "said anything else" about what was going on, they would go through every chart of every pt I had ever seen, and "get me".

it was "divine providence" at work the day before the "threat" was made on me as noted above. The day before the above happened, I was at the base fitness center doing our mandatory Phys fitness, and one of the commanders on our base told me his story of what happened when PCO was started at the base. Apparently the SG himself was there and asked if anybody had any concerns about the plan. This commander raised his hand and voiced his concern. The SG's response......."you are either part of the plan or part of the problem,...I suggest you look for another line of work etc..."

So why I was being threatened myself the following day, rememberring the words spoken to me the previous day had a calming effect on me in a somewhat stressful situation..ie,...I was not the first, nor would I be the last to be blasted for speaking up.

 

[island doc]

it was "divine providence" at work the day before the "threat" was made on me as noted above. The day before the above happened, I was at the base fitness center doing our mandatory Phys fitness, and one of the commanders on our base told me his story of what happened when PCO was started at the base. Apparently the SG himself was there and asked if anybody had any concerns about the plan. This commander raised his hand and voiced his concern. The SG's response......."you are either part of the plan or part of the problem,...I suggest you look for another line of work etc..."

So why I was being threatened myself the following day, rememberring the words spoken to me the previous day had a calming effect on me in a somewhat stressful situation..ie,...I was not the first, nor would I be the last to be blasted for speaking up.

We are soul mates. 😀

 

[island doc]

One story of mine (there are many), quickly, is that I was threatened as well, for speaking out about concerns for patient care. I was threatened to be kicked off the base (but they said that would be like a reward to me to be kicked off the base, so the "kept me", however, they then said that if I "said anything else" about what was going on, they would go through every chart of every pt I had ever seen, and "get me".

Sounds like you were threatened with what I actually got, but eventually overcame after a long and expensive contest.

 

[Gjr]

In 4th year of a 6 year residency. AFHPSP was a mistake. Any chance to buyout of 3 year active duty requirement following residency? Afraid to approach Air Force for fear of recrimination. Help!

 

[iatrosB]

In 4th year of a 6 year residency. AFHPSP was a mistake. Any chance to buyout of 3 year active duty requirement following residency? Afraid to approach Air Force for fear of recrimination. Help!

NO CHANCE! sorry for being so blunt/emphatic...but no, try to make the best out of, good luck

 

[NavyFP]

In 4th year of a 6 year residency. AFHPSP was a mistake. Any chance to buyout of 3 year active duty requirement following residency? Afraid to approach Air Force for fear of recrimination. Help!

No, as is frequently quoted. They want their pound of flesh.

You made a committment. You are completing a residency, from your statement most likely at a civilian institution. You did not have to do GMO time. Suck it up and do it. It is only three years.

Even the negative posters are on this side of the fence.

 

[former military]

charges are always trumped up... in the army medical iraq prison scandal they had a female usa general also charged with shoplifting from the PX. Military Justice is an oxymoron. You will never be defended well by a military attorney. You have to hire a civilian attorney just to watch them. I have never been charged but I have written character letters and attended hearings. The defendant is always going to get the minimal effort ****** attorney. Hopefully, you were like me in when you left you carried out all the reams of computer paper and batteries you could to offset your cost! You need to inflict back on the system 5000$ worth of negative publicity and feel good cost on those horrible people.

 

[island doc]

They want their pound of flesh.

Try ton.

 

[Galo]

Island Doc,

I have absolutely no trouble believing you. I too experienced somehtingn I don't think I have yet posted. I will at some point but not yet. I guess one of the issues we fail to emphasize is how amazing it us to have certain rights removed from you by joining the military. We talk about the inability to practice medicine well, the poor GME, dealing with complete *****s, but besides your story, exUSAF doc, there really is not important thread that allow people to realize what can of major screwing they can get with little to no ability to defend themselves, especially if they are the type to honor those core values which we all have learned are just a bunch of words the Air Force, (as well as the rest of the services), use to make them look and seem honorable. The service is run by a bunch of slow witted, vindictive, self-serving, *****ic bunch of AS*****S, with FEW exceptions.

I'm sure Rob, and myself will still see legal, if not bothersome problems ahead, as is likely anyone of us who speaks out against them. The beauty is now we have rights and money to hire attorneys.

 

[RichL025]

Island Doc,
...
I'm sure Rob, and myself will still see legal, if not bothersome problems ahead, as is likely anyone of us who speaks out against them. The beauty is now we have rights and money to hire attorneys.

Normally I let you guys vent ad lib, but do tell.... what kind of retaliation is is Uncle Sam going to launch against a couple of civilian physicians for "speaking out"?

Blue sky, Galo - tell me anything remotely within the realm of possibility you are worried about retribution-wise....

 

[Galo]

Normally I let you guys vent ad lib, but do tell.... what kind of retaliation is is Uncle Sam going to launch against a couple of civilian physicians for "speaking out"?

Blue sky, Galo - tell me anything remotely within the realm of possibility you are worried about retribution-wise....

OK, here it is:

Although I've been able to get privileges at 3 different hospitals without problems since leaving the military that has stopped. I am in the middle of a move to a new practice, and the hospital I am joining is traditionally very conservative in multiple ways. My partner told me long ago to start the credentialing process as it can take up to 6 months. Well I diligently worked to get everything in and my package was supposed to be presented Sept 5th. I found out later that day that it was not. After a few phone calls I got the VP of medical staff who proceeded to tell me they had received references stating I was difficult to get along with. Now, this hospital seeks other people who have worked with you besides the references you supply. Clearly they found someone in the military that made this claim. Fortunately I have a number of ex-military physicians, a nationally recognized civilian surgeon that was witness to 3 years of hell I spent at one of my bases, the CEO of my current hosptial, as well as the Cheif of medical staff, are all writting letters to refute this.

Now some may think this is just an inconvenience, but I have a kid in school waiting to switch, a teenater at that, a pissed off wife, and two little ones. My partner and my plans have been put off a month, as well as a potential move, while I have to moonlight in a town over an hour away from my family. Also a contract worth over a half a million has had to be placed on hold. I fully expect that all this will go away, but its just another reminder of where I came from and what can happen.

Petty? I think not.

 

[former military]

Sounds like you need to hold a big sign warning patients of the hospital as they drive through the front gate. We had a guy do that at Travis for months.

 

[Heeed!]

The AF Times ran an article touting AFHPSP for active duty line officers. In the article a statement was made by AFPC that AFHPSP graduates would fulfill their ADSC after completion of residency. Being a GMO, I knew this was a boldfaced lie by AFPC.

I'm cornfused.

I was a line officer. I've always been told I would complete my HPSP payback AFTER residency. Are people being told they can pay back their 4 year HPSP obligation DURING residency, and then get out without having to serve anymore???

 

[orbitsurgMD]

I'm cornfused.

I was a line officer. I've always been told I would complete my HPSP payback AFTER residency. Are people being told they can pay back their 4 year HPSP obligation DURING residency, and then get out without having to serve anymore???

You will as long as you have service remaining after your training. But if you end up doing a GMO tour first, you may complete your obligation before returning to residency, and not necessarily by choice.

Residency only adds to payback or does nothing, unless you have payback from a service academy remaining.

 

[RichL025]

... After a few phone calls I got the VP of medical staff who proceeded to tell me they had received references stating I was difficult to get along with....

Well, Galo, please don't take this the wrong way, but technically, this was a true statement, right? At least from the weenies perspective...

I mean, the friction you had with your bosses was from subjects that WE all agree were reasonable (from what you've told us), and most of us would probably have done exactly what you did in similar situations, but at the end of the day, if they contact one of the paper-pushing weenies whose nose you tweaked, and that staff weenie said you were "difficult"... well, that's a true statement, right?

Fortunately I have a number of ex-military physicians, a nationally recognized civilian surgeon that was witness to 3 years of hell I spent at one of my bases, the CEO of my current hosptial, as well as the Cheif of medical staff, are all writting letters to refute this.

Good, I'm glad it will (eventually) work out for you, and I'm sorry that it is delaying your assumption of privleges at your new hospital, but in all honesty, this does not strike me as "the system" striking back at you for speaking out.

 

[Ankylosed]

OK. It's time for me to go public with my story. Like MilMD, I too have a story to tell which makes my blood boil. Here it is:

The AF Times ran an article touting AFHPSP for active duty line officers. In the article a statement was made by AFPC that AFHPSP graduates would fulfill their ADSC after completion of residency. Being a GMO, I knew this was a boldfaced lie by AFPC. I sent a letter to the editor of the AF Times in response, in which I pointed out the false statement made by AFPC officials, which was published and distributed worldwide for all to see.

The retaliation and retribution by the AF against me was swift and severe. Soon after, charges were "trumped up" concerning patient care, along with "adverse action" proceedings. Which in reality was an attempt to inflict damage upon my professional reputation and future civilian medical career, because I already had separation orders. Over one year (after separation), and $5000 in civilian attorneys fees later-I prevailed in the legal battle with the AF to protect my professional reputation. I was exonerated.

Like MilMD's experience, when I think back on this it too makes my blood boil over to realize that I was punished with trumped up false charges simply for exercising my constitutional right to free speech in blowing the whistle on a lie.

Let me be the first to say that was a very stupid move on your part. You don't have these rights any more as an armed services member as someone else pointed out.. You are held to a much higher standard as an officer and rightfully so. What makes you think anyone cared about your opinion anyway? Many people do get to take the payback route just as described in the article, so not all do a GMO tour.

Also, why don't you expand on your post and tell us what these "trumped up charges" were and how they transpired? I would also like to know how it is that you were "going to be a neuro surgeon", but didn't quite make it there. Please expand, thanks.

 

[IgD]

What I take from this thread is that the whole experience of having to apply for PGY2 training vs. GMO tour was a frustrating and uncertain time. I feel fortunate to have gone straight through to PGY2. I've known a lot of good people that didn't get picked up or did 4 years GMO and left.

 

[island doc]

What I take from this thread is that the whole experience of having to apply for PGY2 training vs. GMO tour was a frustrating and uncertain time. I feel fortunate to have gone straight through to PGY2. I've known a lot of good people that didn't get picked up or did 4 years GMO and left.

There was not even an option of applying for PGY-2 (and beyond) training at the time the policy was implemented. Per the stated policy, all individuals in non-categorical PGY-1 positions had no option whatsoever of even appying for, let alone completing residency in any specialty.

Take for example someone desiring a specialty which matches at the PGY-2 level, they were prohibited from even applying for, let alone entering training in that specialty.

This was a decade ago, and we are now seeing a repeat of this horribly flawed policy. If there is such a dire and immediate need for primary care clinicians to function as flight surgeons or whatever, they should hire fully trained FP's, or Family Nurse Practitioners, and send them to the AMP course to fulfill that need. Yes, an FNP could perform the duties of a flight surgeon! Yes, a civilian contractor FP or NP could perform the duties of a flight surgeon!

In any event, suspending a physician's graduate medical education is not the solution to any true or imagined flight surgeon shortage.

 

[island doc]

I've known a lot of good people that didn't get picked up or did 4 years GMO and left.

I'll take this as a compliment. Thank you. It's nice to see the two of us getting along better.😀

 

[Galo]

Well, Galo, please don't take this the wrong way, but technically, this was a true statement, right? At least from the weenies perspective...

I mean, the friction you had with your bosses was from subjects that WE all agree were reasonable (from what you've told us), and most of us would probably have done exactly what you did in similar situations, but at the end of the day, if they contact one of the paper-pushing weenies whose nose you tweaked, and that staff weenie said you were "difficult"... well, that's a true statement, right?



Good, I'm glad it will (eventually) work out for you, and I'm sorry that it is delaying your assumption of privleges at your new hospital, but in all honesty, this does not strike me as "the system" striking back at you for speaking out.

Yes you are correct, in doing what I did, which I believe was the right thing, I did become difficult to deal with because I refused to be screwed with. In the end, it made my life hell, and now it delayed my job a month. Here's what I sent a buddy of mine as to whom I would be difficult to get along with:

-religious freaks a la Oral Roberts who want to hold medical care as a carrot to conversion. (they came to my med school when their school shut down, and actually told us AIDS was god's way to punish homosexuals)
-incompetent physicians, nurses, ancillary staff
nurses who want to tell me my job
-Bush lovers (sorry, not wanting to get political here, but I have a low opinion of our current commander in chief)
-Warmongers (I used to romantazice war as a kid, now I've grown up)
-people who want to shove their d@@k up my a** and not have the courtesy to give me a reach around. ( infantile, but you get the drift)

I'll leave my other story for another time. But besides this event, you are right so far, and I do not know if there can be any further retribution.


People who are in the service and watch injustices occur without doing anything about it are plain and simple accomplices to the deed.

 

[USAFdoc]

People who are in the service and watch injustices occur without doing anything about it are plain and simple accomplices to the deed.

and that is DOUBLE if you are an officer; and that is TRIPLE if you are a physician too; and why stop there, it is a freakin HOMERUN if you not only ignore the problem, but tell others that there is no problem.(That is, a homerun for the OTHER team.) No ribbies for you!

 

[MedicalCorpse]

People who are in the service and watch injustices occur without doing anything about it are plain and simple accomplices to the deed.

Ooh, ooh, quote book material! You da' man!

--
Rob
http://www.medicalcorpse.com
Witness, Not Accomplice, From 1990-2005

 

[PharmD2MD]

Let me be the first to say that was a very stupid move on your part. You don't have these rights any more as an armed services member as someone else pointed out.. You are held to a much higher standard as an officer and rightfully so. What makes you think anyone cared about your opinion anyway? Many people do get to take the payback route just as described in the article, so not all do a GMO tour.

Also, why don't you expand on your post and tell us what these "trumped up charges" were and how they transpired? I would also like to know how it is that you were "going to be a neuro surgeon", but didn't quite make it there. Please expand, thanks.

What was so stupid about correcting an erroneus statement? It's not like he was slamming his chain of command. Are you saying that as officers we are to turn a blind eye? Explain your idea of the higher standard that we are held to. Integrity and accountability are my idea of the higher standard, not robotically swallowing whatever is passed off as the truth.

 

[IgD]

In any event, suspending a physician's graduate medical education is not the solution to any true or imagined flight surgeon shortage.

I think you could argue that a GMO tour in some situations could be personally enriching or professionally enhancing. On the other hand, I think it would be optimal for a number of reasons (recruiting, improved quality of care, better morale) to do away with the GMO tour. The unfortunate thing is it would cost a lot of money and would require major changes to military medicine.

I think the HPSP recruiting problem would be improved if there was no "threat" of doing a GMO tour was resolved and salaries were increased. The unfortunately truth is I was counseled I could have my "choice of specialty" by the recruiter as an undergraduate. I didn't even know what the match was back then.

 

[MedicalCorpse]

The unfortunately truth is I was counseled I could have my "choice of specialty" by the recruiter as an undergraduate. I didn't even know what the match was back then.

Lies, D-mned Lies, And Military Medicine, Part 975.

Add this to the AEF and CSRB, and you get -45% integrity/year.

Take the second derivative, do the math, and run, y'all.

--
Rob
http://www.medicalcorpse.com

 

[pgg]

In the article a statement was made by AFPC that AFHPSP graduates would fulfill their ADSC after completion of residency. Being a GMO, I knew this was a boldfaced lie by AFPC. I sent a letter to the editor of the AF Times in response, in which I pointed out the false statement made by AFPC officials, which was published and distributed worldwide for all to see.

I don't suppose you have a linkable or postable copy of the letter you wrote, do you?

Just curious as to the tone of the letter; ie, was it an unemotional correction of a factual error in the original article, or did it go to the other extreme and accuse the AF of deliberately deceiving potential recruits?

Sorry to hear you had to cough up $5000 and endure the presence of lawyers (damn their oily hides) to clear your name.

 

[island doc]

I don't suppose you have a linkable or postable copy of the letter you wrote, do you?

No, I don't.

was it an unemotional correction of a factual error in the original article, or did it go to the other extreme and accuse the AF of deliberately deceiving potential recruits?

It was an unemotional correction of a factual error. Simply stated the truth. That being that I had been compelled to begin repayment of ADSC prior to completion of residency/graduate medical education.

Sorry to hear you had to cough up $5000 and endure the presence of lawyers (damn their oily hides) to clear your name.

Thanks. I was sorry about that too.

 

[MedicalCorpse]

Sounds like you need to hold a big sign warning patients of the hospital as they drive through the front gate. We had a guy do that at Travis for months.

Wish I had a picture of that guy. Wish I had been that guy.

--
R
http://www.medicalcorpse.com

 

[Ankylosed]

What was so stupid about correcting an erroneus statement? It's not like he was slamming his chain of command. Are you saying that as officers we are to turn a blind eye? Explain your idea of the higher standard that we are held to. Integrity and accountability are my idea of the higher standard, not robotically swallowing whatever is passed off as the truth.

Just as I suggested, this may not be an erroneus statement. All of the surgeons I worked with (Navy) had done, at most, a one year GMO period and told me it was a positive experience before receiving their residency of choice. It is just part of the game in military medicine. I have to say that it is your own fault if you did not do your own research before signing your contract. I certainly did mine before signing and this did not involve SDN!! It is also very obvious that if you didn't get your residency of choice, you either did something very stupid or just didn't have the smarts in the beginning..

The great thing about being a surg tech, was that I got to work with hundreds of different surgeons. I tried to get their background and experience on everything, and I heard mostly positive experiences. On that note, I saw excellent healthcare as well. The only issue I saw was that some of the orthopaedists were not allowed to perform total joints when the money was not in the budget, but if the pt didn't have the money or insurance in private practice it is the same issue only you don't get paid in civilian. I moonlighted in a trauma hospital the entire time I served so I got both sides of medicine and I really didn't see any difference in the abilities or attitudes of the surgeons.

Going back to my point, you can't just go off writing letters such as our friend island doc did. If you don't know what "higher standard" I'm talking about, you really shouldn't be an officer.. I am glad to have been an "enlisted thug" for eight years because it gave me the chance to see dip$hits like island doc, who think they are so special with their MD degree, to come in, think they own the place, and royally screw up..

To all you retired and separated military docs, please quit harassing these 18-22 yo potential applicants. This forum was not created for your negativity and it is only representative of 1% of military medicine. Please put your efforts on the system the that NEEDS corrections, the US HEALTH CARE SYSTEM!!!!! Let us fresh bodies deal with the issues that most of you created while in the system..😍 The reason why there is no positive opinions on this forum is that the great military docs don't feel the need to come on the STUDENT DOCTOR network.......

 

[Galo]

Just as I suggested, this may not be an erroneus statement. All of the surgeons I worked with (Navy) had done, at most, a one year GMO period and told me it was a positive experience before receiving their residency of choice. It is just part of the game in military medicine. I have to say that it is your own fault if you did not do your own research before signing your contract. I certainly did mine before signing and this did not involve SDN!! It is also very obvious that if you didn't get your residency of choice, you either did something very stupid or just didn't have the smarts in the beginning..

The great thing about being a surg tech, was that I got to work with hundreds of different surgeons. I tried to get their background and experience on everything, and I heard mostly positive experiences. On that note, I saw excellent healthcare as well. The only issue I saw was that some of the orthopaedists were not allowed to perform total joints when the money was not in the budget, but if the pt didn't have the money or insurance in private practice it is the same issue only you don't get paid in civilian. I moonlighted in a trauma hospital the entire time I served so I got both sides of medicine and I really didn't see any difference in the abilities or attitudes of the surgeons.

Going back to my point, you can't just go off writing letters such as our friend island doc did. If you don't know what "higher standard" I'm talking about, you really shouldn't be an officer.. I am glad to have been an "enlisted thug" for eight years because it gave me the chance to see dip$hits like island doc, who think they are so special with their MD degree, to come in, think they own the place, and royally screw up..

To all you retired and separated military docs, please quit harassing these 18-22 yo potential applicants. This forum was not created for your negativity and it is only representative of 1% of military medicine. Please put your efforts on the system the that NEEDS corrections, the US HEALTH CARE SYSTEM!!!!! Let us fresh bodies deal with the issues that most of you created while in the system..😍 The reason why there is no positive opinions on this forum is that the great military docs don't feel the need to come on the STUDENT DOCTOR network.......

To island doc, c'mon man, you don't hesitate to bash the military, but won't tell us what these "trumped up" charges were? You obviously were not smart enough to get a NS residency on your own. By the way, I haven't heard the phrase "trumped up" since I was hanging out on the block with my "enlisted thug comrades". To Robert Carlton Jones, M.D. of Edgewater, Maryland, I think you are Al Qaeda and a JIHAD specialist (google, aol, wal-mart, dogpile). You are a disgrace to the air force and civilian medicine. You should be ashamed of the things you are saying and doing in the naming of selling a couple books. thanks

So you think having been a surgery tech gives you the right to judge our experiences? What are you now?

You are a ******. If another Abu Graib happens you will be the one administering the shots because someone told you to. You will be just one of those drones that does what they are told be it right or wrong. Medicine is not the field you should be in. I suggest administration since it seems you already have the brains, (or lack there of in your case), and stupid attitude. *****!!

 

[island doc]

Just as I suggested, this may not be an erroneus statement. All of the surgeons I worked with (Navy) had done, at most, a one year GMO period and told me it was a positive experience before receiving their residency of choice. It is just part of the game in military medicine. I have to say that it is your own fault if you did not do your own research before signing your contract. I certainly did mine before signing and this did not involve SDN!! It is also very obvious that if you didn't get your residency of choice, you either did something very stupid or just didn't have the smarts in the beginning..

The great thing about being a surg tech, was that I got to work with hundreds of different surgeons. I tried to get their background and experience on everything, and I heard mostly positive experiences. On that note, I saw excellent healthcare as well. The only issue I saw was that some of the orthopaedists were not allowed to perform total joints when the money was not in the budget, but if the pt didn't have the money or insurance in private practice it is the same issue only you don't get paid in civilian. I moonlighted in a trauma hospital the entire time I served so I got both sides of medicine and I really didn't see any difference in the abilities or attitudes of the surgeons.

Going back to my point, you can't just go off writing letters such as our friend island doc did. If you don't know what "higher standard" I'm talking about, you really shouldn't be an officer.. I am glad to have been an "enlisted thug" for eight years because it gave me the chance to see dip$hits like island doc, who think they are so special with their MD degree, to come in, think they own the place, and royally screw up..

To all you retired and separated military docs, please quit harassing these 18-22 yo potential applicants. This forum was not created for your negativity and it is only representative of 1% of military medicine. Please put your efforts on the system the that NEEDS corrections, the US HEALTH CARE SYSTEM!!!!! Let us fresh bodies deal with the issues that most of you created while in the system..😍 The reason why there is no positive opinions on this forum is that the great military docs don't feel the need to come on the STUDENT DOCTOR network.......

To island doc, c'mon man, you don't hesitate to bash the military, but won't tell us what these "trumped up" charges were? You obviously were not smart enough to get a NS residency on your own. By the way, I haven't heard the phrase "trumped up" since I was hanging out on the block with my "enlisted thug comrades". To Robert Carlton Jones, M.D. of Edgewater, Maryland, I think you are Al Qaeda and a JIHAD specialist (google, aol, wal-mart, dogpile). You are a disgrace to the air force and civilian medicine. You should be ashamed of the things you are saying and doing in the naming of selling a couple books. thanks

I just now reported this post to SDN administration, as it is harrassing and utterly rude. There is simply no excuse to use profanity in describing another member. I am very offended. I demand an apology from you, and insist that you ceast and desist your personal attacks.

 

[PharmD2MD]

Just as I suggested, this may not be an erroneus statement. All of the surgeons I worked with (Navy) had done, at most, a one year GMO period and told me it was a positive experience before receiving their residency of choice. It is just part of the game in military medicine. I have to say that it is your own fault if you did not do your own research before signing your contract. I certainly did mine before signing and this did not involve SDN!! It is also very obvious that if you didn't get your residency of choice, you either did something very stupid or just didn't have the smarts in the beginning..

The great thing about being a surg tech, was that I got to work with hundreds of different surgeons. I tried to get their background and experience on everything, and I heard mostly positive experiences. On that note, I saw excellent healthcare as well. The only issue I saw was that some of the orthopaedists were not allowed to perform total joints when the money was not in the budget, but if the pt didn't have the money or insurance in private practice it is the same issue only you don't get paid in civilian. I moonlighted in a trauma hospital the entire time I served so I got both sides of medicine and I really didn't see any difference in the abilities or attitudes of the surgeons.

Going back to my point, you can't just go off writing letters such as our friend island doc did. If you don't know what "higher standard" I'm talking about, you really shouldn't be an officer.. I am glad to have been an "enlisted thug" for eight years because it gave me the chance to see dip$hits like island doc, who think they are so special with their MD degree, to come in, think they own the place, and royally screw up..

To all you retired and separated military docs, please quit harassing these 18-22 yo potential applicants. This forum was not created for your negativity and it is only representative of 1% of military medicine. Please put your efforts on the system the that NEEDS corrections, the US HEALTH CARE SYSTEM!!!!! Let us fresh bodies deal with the issues that most of you created while in the system..😍 The reason why there is no positive opinions on this forum is that the great military docs don't feel the need to come on the STUDENT DOCTOR network.......

To island doc, c'mon man, you don't hesitate to bash the military, but won't tell us what these "trumped up" charges were? You obviously were not smart enough to get a NS residency on your own. By the way, I haven't heard the phrase "trumped up" since I was hanging out on the block with my "enlisted thug comrades". To Robert Carlton Jones, M.D. of Edgewater, Maryland, I think you are Al Qaeda and a JIHAD specialist (google, aol, wal-mart, dogpile). You are a disgrace to the air force and civilian medicine. You should be ashamed of the things you are saying and doing in the naming of selling a couple books. thanks

Look, I'm generally more on the pro side than the con side of this on going debate. We probably have some of the same views on several issues. However, you come across as a real jerk with posts like this. Name calling and questioning someone's integrity are not the basis of an argument for military medicine. Is that part of your higher standard? I know damn well what it means to be an officer. The higher standard is one of integrity and accountability, among other things. I asked the question because you are implying that a person has to surrender their brain upon commissioning. Officers are not robots. Medical officers especially. Island doc stated that the letter was simply and unemotional correction of the facts. He wasn't bashing his commander or the Air Force.

 

[colbgw02]

Just as I suggested, this may not be an erroneus statement. All of the surgeons I worked with (Navy) had done, at most, a one year GMO period and told me it was a positive experience before receiving their residency of choice. It is just part of the game in military medicine. I have to say that it is your own fault if you did not do your own research before signing your contract. I certainly did mine before signing and this did not involve SDN!! It is also very obvious that if you didn't get your residency of choice, you either did something very stupid or just didn't have the smarts in the beginning..

The great thing about being a surg tech, was that I got to work with hundreds of different surgeons. I tried to get their background and experience on everything, and I heard mostly positive experiences. On that note, I saw excellent healthcare as well. The only issue I saw was that some of the orthopaedists were not allowed to perform total joints when the money was not in the budget, but if the pt didn't have the money or insurance in private practice it is the same issue only you don't get paid in civilian. I moonlighted in a trauma hospital the entire time I served so I got both sides of medicine and I really didn't see any difference in the abilities or attitudes of the surgeons.

Going back to my point, you can't just go off writing letters such as our friend island doc did. If you don't know what "higher standard" I'm talking about, you really shouldn't be an officer.. I am glad to have been an "enlisted thug" for eight years because it gave me the chance to see dip$hits like island doc, who think they are so special with their MD degree, to come in, think they own the place, and royally screw up..

To all you retired and separated military docs, please quit harassing these 18-22 yo potential applicants. This forum was not created for your negativity and it is only representative of 1% of military medicine. Please put your efforts on the system the that NEEDS corrections, the US HEALTH CARE SYSTEM!!!!! Let us fresh bodies deal with the issues that most of you created while in the system..😍 The reason why there is no positive opinions on this forum is that the great military docs don't feel the need to come on the STUDENT DOCTOR network.......

To island doc, c'mon man, you don't hesitate to bash the military, but won't tell us what these "trumped up" charges were? You obviously were not smart enough to get a NS residency on your own. By the way, I haven't heard the phrase "trumped up" since I was hanging out on the block with my "enlisted thug comrades". To Robert Carlton Jones, M.D. of Edgewater, Maryland, I think you are Al Qaeda and a JIHAD specialist (google, aol, wal-mart, dogpile). You are a disgrace to the air force and civilian medicine. You should be ashamed of the things you are saying and doing in the naming of selling a couple books. thanks

I also consider myself to be a moderate on these boards, and I have to say that you are unequivocally a *****.

1) Whether or not an HPSP recruit does his/her research has absolutely zero to do with the factual correction of erroneous information if said information is publicly published.

2) In the military, saying that someone didn't get a certain residency because they weren't smart enough or did something wrong is horribly specious reasoning. It has absolutely no basis in logic or rationality.

3) I am well aware of the higher standard to which you refer, as indicated by my post on this thread last November. At no point, whether written or unwritten, does that standard include mandatory complicity in correction of statements of fact, assuming that it was done in a tactful and appropriate manner. If the author says that it was, then I will take him at his word. By your logic, one would be wrong to correct the Air Force Times if they published that 2+2=5.

 

[Ankylosed]

I also consider myself to be a moderate on these boards, and I have to say that you are unequivocally a *****.

1) Whether or not an HPSP recruit does his/her research has absolutely zero to do with the factual correction of erroneous information if said information is publicly published.

2) In the military, saying that someone didn't get a certain residency because they weren't smart enough or did something wrong is horribly specious reasoning. It has absolutely no basis in logic or rationality.

3) I am well aware of the higher standard to which you refer, as indicated by my post on this thread last November. At no point, whether written or unwritten, does that standard include mandatory complicity in correction of statements of fact, assuming that it was done in a tactful and appropriate manner. If the author says that it was, then I will take him at his word. By your logic, one would be wrong to correct the Air Force Times if they published that 2+2=5.

I am an aZZhole no doubt about that.. I guess my enlisted time has left me sensitive to about nothing at all.. I say, if you are part of the military upper half, if they say 2 + 2 = 5 then take it as it goes.. You can make judgements about my standards, but just know that my judgements have never waivered with my patients alive or dead.. I have never waivered on my sterile technique on my surgical patients or my deceased patients which some of your children might have received bone or heart grafts. Do what you will, but the military is lucky to have my experience, wether y'all make it sound pointless or not...

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I am an aZZhole no doubt about that.. I guess my enlisted time has left me sensitive to about nothing at all.. I say, if you are part of the military upper half, if they say 2 + 2 = 5 then take it as it goes.. You can make judgements about my standards, but just know that my judgements have never waivered with my patients alive or dead.. I have never waivered on my sterile technique on my surgical patients or my deceased patients which some of your children might have received bone or heart grafts. Do what you will, but the military is lucky to have my experience, wether y'all make it sound pointless or not...

It's not your experience we have a problem with, in fact, you'll make a very fine recruiter some day (if you aren't already). It's the huge chip on your shoulder that we have a problem with. It could be you're so far above us 🙄 but you just haven't acclimated yet, or maybe (and pardon me for being logical, I know you hate it when people are this way) your sphincter is constricted around your neck causing hypoxic encephalopathy by a wholely different process.

 

[colbgw02]

I am an aZZhole no doubt about that.. I guess my enlisted time has left me sensitive to about nothing at all.. I say, if you are part of the military upper half, if they say 2 + 2 = 5 then take it as it goes.. You can make judgements about my standards, but just know that my judgements have never waivered with my patients alive or dead.. I have never waivered on my sterile technique on my surgical patients or my deceased patients which some of your children might have received bone or heart grafts. Do what you will, but the military is lucky to have my experience, wether y'all make it sound pointless or not...

I'm not sure if you were referring specifically to my last post, because I don't really see how what I said has anything to do with your standards, your sterile technique, or the quality of any grafts harvested from your dead patients. You did quote me though, so I'm assuming you were...

By calling you a *****, I didn't intend to call into question your service. To me, making coherent arguments is not a prerequisitve to military service. For example, I'm sure Forrest Gump, if he were real, would have made an outstanding soldier. I hope you continue to excel at whatever job you currently hold.

You've been around long enough that you shouldn't have to be told that part of being a good officer is distinguishing between which orders I should and should not follow. If my CO tells me that 2+2=5, then it's my duty to tell him otherwise. Similarly, if he tells me to falsify patient records or to execute a POW, then I'm obligated to disobey. Obviously, that's reducto ad absurdum; my point is simply that officers must constantly examine the morality of the orders they receive.

And please don't give me any crap about cocky officers. I'm speaking from a historical perspective here; in modern times, I would expect the same sort of mindful disobedience from NCOs.

 

[USAFdoc]

This forum was not created for your negativity and it is only representative of 1% of military medicine.

not bad Anky; your math is only a few decimal points off.

 

[island doc]

I am an aZZhole no doubt about that.. I guess my enlisted time has left me sensitive to about nothing at all.. I say, if you are part of the military upper half, if they say 2 + 2 = 5 then take it as it goes.. You can make judgements about my standards, but just know that my judgements have never waivered with my patients alive or dead.. I have never waivered on my sterile technique on my surgical patients or my deceased patients which some of your children might have received bone or heart grafts. Do what you will, but the military is lucky to have my experience, wether y'all make it sound pointless or not...

Where is my apology? Don't see one in this paragraph.

 

[MedicalCorpse]

I am an aZZhole no doubt about that.. I guess my enlisted time has left me sensitive to about nothing at all..

Thank my Goddess that you will be taking care of zero military medical casualties. Dental casualties live. Savvy?

--
R
http://www.medicalcorpse.com

 

[former military]

not ******, f*cktard,
I am sure as a surgery tech he has trouble sleeping worrying about his patients and I am also sure he gets to disengage them when things get tough.

 

[AF M4]

"It is also very obvious that if you didn't get your residency of choice, you either did something very stupid or just didn't have the smarts in the beginning."

(Chuckling) Dude, I want to do EM in the AF, I've got great LORs, strong clinical grades, plenty of extracurriculars and volunteer experience and USMLE board scores in the 93rd (Step I) and 99th (Step 2) percentiles respectively. But 14 available military EM slots + no civvie deferments + 50 or more other med studs vying for same slots + who knows how many people coming in from internships and GMO tours in line ahead of 50+ medical students = very small chance of getting EM residency. So zip it on the smarts thing: sometimes you can do everything right but still not get what you want.

 

[8744]

...Here's what I sent a buddy of mine as to whom I would be difficult to get along with:

-religious freaks a la Oral Roberts who want to hold medical care as a carrot to conversion. (they came to my med school when their school shut down, and actually told us AIDS was god's way to punish homosexuals)
....
-Bush lovers (sorry, not wanting to get political here, but I have a low opinion of our current commander in chief)
-Warmongers (I used to romantazice war as a kid, now I've grown up)....

Your bias is showing. Wouldn't you say that most people in the military respect President Bush and, if not warmongers, are at least not pacifists?

Sounds like you let your personal political beliefs poison your relationships.

Hey, it's the military. That's why we used to call it the "suck." Do yer' friggin' tour, keep yer' mouth shut, and if you don't like it, get out. I don't even know why so many of you are complaining. It's only four years. I could do that standing on my head. Essentially, you are getting paid many times more than a typical enlisted grunt, you don't have to sweat and freeze and bleed, and to top it all off the military paid your tab through medical school. Was it $150,000? $200,000? That's like getting extra pay every year you're in because it's money you didn't have to spend and will not be paying interest on either.

 

[DiveMD]

Your bias is showing. Wouldn't you say that most people in the military respect President Bush and, if not warmongers, are at least not pacifists?

Sounds like you let your personal political beliefs poison your relationships.

Hey, it's the military. That's why we used to call it the "suck." Do yer' friggin' tour, keep yer' mouth shut, and if you don't like it, get out. I don't even know why so many of you are complaining. It's only four years. I could do that standing on my head. Essentially, you are getting paid many times more than a typical enlisted grunt, you don't have to sweat and freeze and bleed, and to top it all off the military paid your tab through medical school. Was it $150,000? $200,000? That's like getting extra pay every year you're in because it's money you didn't have to spend and will not be paying interest on either.

I experienced lots of sweating and bleeding in Dive School…and it felt great!!!

 

[former military]

Medical Corpse is a jihadist and al qaeda? If I turn him in can I get a reward?

I give medical corpse two thumbs down....👎 👎 for being personally responsible for attack on the WTC and the pentagon. You are either with us or against us.... and you sir... are no PK Carlton!