MY CHANCES at INTERNAL Medicine!! HELP

[MagsBudz]

Hi-

I am pulling my hair out trying to find incoming resident statistics for residency programs to try and get a good idea at what my realistic chances are at having an interview- or maybe even matching. I have yet to found this...

Here's my info:

PLEASE ANYONE feel free to comment and let me know what you think my chances are at programs such as U Mich Ann Arbor, Emory, U of Chicago, Northwestern. or.. should I not even bother.

MY STATS:
USMLE: Step 1: 232/97, STEP 2- will take July 2010
Grades: probably lower to middle third of class.
3rd Year Grades: HP-medicine, HP-pedes, HP- ob, Honors- Family med. Surg and Psych still to come.
Extracurricular: worked in medical office throughout med school (managerial type stuff)
Research: in college- not published. none since.
AOA: probably not

So what do you guys think?? ANY imput would be SOO APPRECIATED!!!

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[jbz24]

Well Emory had 3 unmatched so it looks like you have a great shot!

In all seriousness though, it's hard to say for sure. Your step 1 score is probably good enough for any of those programs, but you may want to raise it in your step 2 score. You said your grades are lower 1/3, not sure if that means preclinical years. If so, those don't really matter either way. Your third year grades aren't bad so far, but the lack of honors for medicine hurts. You still have a shot at the programs without it, but if you read around, it seems like it's very hit or miss without honors in medicine. I would say the lack of research in med school also hurts, so if you have time to become involved in one now, I would suggest to do so.

You should definitely apply to those programs, but with any competitive program, there's no guarantee.

 

[RonBurgandy]

FWIW: seemed like lots of people at my school had similar stats and got interviews at NW and Michigan. Not all of these people matched at those programs, however.

I don't know many people who applied to the other places you mentioned.

I'd guess that taking step 2 early (before applications) and trying to ace it may be a big help.

Most important though, talk to the PD at your home program or any medicine doc who has a lot of experiencing guiding students through the application process, and get their opinion.

 

[futureres]

Michigan is extremely competitive, and I'd consider U Chicago very competitive as well. No comment on Emory. Limited knowledge about NW. I think your stats look fine personally, but some extracurriculars for distinction would help (research, leadership, service, etc). Your advanced IM rotation will be critical. I'd do an ICU rotation as well-those letters really help. I think it's worth a shot no matter what. Apply to a diverse group of programs, including the top choices that you listed, and see what happens. Advisors at your home institution can point you in the direction of "safeties" as part of your list of programs based on your stats since they would have more experience in this area.

 

[jdh71]

Hi-

I am pulling my hair out trying to find incoming resident statistics for residency programs to try and get a good idea at what my realistic chances are at having an interview- or maybe even matching. I have yet to found this...

Here's my info:

PLEASE ANYONE feel free to comment and let me know what you think my chances are at programs such as U Mich Ann Arbor, Emory, U of Chicago, Northwestern. or.. should I not even bother.

MY STATS:
USMLE: Step 1: 232/97, STEP 2- will take July 2010
Grades: probably lower to middle third of class.
3rd Year Grades: HP-medicine, HP-pedes, HP- ob, Honors- Family med. Surg and Psych still to come.
Extracurricular: worked in medical office throughout med school (managerial type stuff)
Research: in college- not published. none since.
AOA: probably not

So what do you guys think?? ANY imput would be SOO APPRECIATED!!!

You should get interviews at a few of those places, at least NWern. Emory is a bit snobbish, and its a toss up for UMich and UChicago. I'd try and get involved in a research project of some kind to help out the old CV.

Why these places in particular?

 

[Whats_up_doc]

You should get interviews at a few of those places, at least NWern. Emory is a bit snobbish, and its a toss up for UMich and UChicago. I'd try and get involved in a research project of some kind to help out the old CV.

Why these places in particular?

Why snobbish? Care to elaborate?

 

[jdh71]

Why snobbish? Care to elaborate?

They tend to think they are better than they are. They are a good program, easily in the top tier 30 or so programs, but I think they have an overly inflated sense of where they sit in the academic world (thus their lack of filling - didn't interview enough people [although hindsight is always 20/20]) and as such may not interview the OP, even though he has a better than average application, it may not measure up to their own ideas of who they think should be interviewing with them.

 

[tncekm]

Man, I guess I just don't get it yet as an MS1. But, OP's scores look pretty good to me for an IM residency. Is OP just applying to top tier residencies, or what?

 

[jdh71]

Man, I guess I just don't get it yet as an MS1. But, OP's scores look pretty good to me for an IM residency. Is OP just applying to top tier residencies, or what?

His scores are great! And easily gets an IM spot somewhere, but he's asking about more competitive programs, and unfortunately for the young pups coming up, there are more and more of you graduating every year, without an expanding residency spots, so some places are getting that much more competitive than others.

 

[tncekm]

His scores are great! And easily gets an IM spot somewhere, but he's asking about more competitive programs, and unfortunately for the young pups coming up, there are more and more of you graduating every year, without an expanding residency spots, so some places are getting that much more competitive than others.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the heads up.

I can't believe I'm only a year away from step 1 and having to worry about all this stuff. Geez, time flies.

 

[ResidentMD]

They tend to think they are better than they are. They are a good program, easily in the top tier 30 or so programs, but I think they have an overly inflated sense of where they sit in the academic world (thus their lack of filling - didn't interview enough people [although hindsight is always 20/20]) and as such may not interview the OP, even though he has a better than average application, it may not measure up to their own ideas of who they think should be interviewing with them.

I think Emory would interview the OP. They just have an overly inflated sense of ego against non-South American IMGs (and maybe DOs?). I think its more to do with not interviewing enough reach applicants and/or not ranking enough. Their program administration is arguably one of the worst I have ever come across (cant comment on the new PD).

 

[Whats_up_doc]

They tend to think they are better than they are. They are a good program, easily in the top tier 30 or so programs, but I think they have an overly inflated sense of where they sit in the academic world (thus their lack of filling - didn't interview enough people [although hindsight is always 20/20]) and as such may not interview the OP, even though he has a better than average application, it may not measure up to their own ideas of who they think should be interviewing with them.

How did you end up with this way of thinking... just curious. Do you have any supportive arguments towards this? Because all I hear about Emory is that they are "good" but not good enough for being at the top tier, etc but nobody actually tells me why.

 

[Cards21aceking]

They tend to think they are better than they are. They are a good program, easily in the top tier 30 or so programs, but I think they have an overly inflated sense of where they sit in the academic world (thus their lack of filling - didn't interview enough people [although hindsight is always 20/20]) and as such may not interview the OP, even though he has a better than average application, it may not measure up to their own ideas of who they think should be interviewing with them.

Would second these comments. Just from an n=1, I had an identical step 1 to the OP with a little bit better grades, and 3 years of research while in med school and didn't get an interview from Emory even though i received ones from conceivably 'more competitive' programs (ie. Penn, Wash U and Beth Israel).

 

[GMed]

Would second these comments. Just from an n=1, I had an identical step 1 to the OP with a little bit better grades, and 3 years of research while in med school and didn't get an interview from Emory even though i received ones from conceivably 'more competitive' programs (ie. Penn, Wash U and Beth Israel).

I would second that. I had interviews at Hopkins, PENN, MGH, Brigham, but no invite from Emory.

 

[futureres]

I would second that. I had interviews at Hopkins, PENN, MGH, Brigham, but no invite from Emory.

Hate to jump on the bandwagon but it's true, same thing happened to some of my classmates (invites to same programs plus programs considered "lower tier" below Emory). Of all the programs I interviewed across multiple tiers, Emory seemed to have the weakest/least enthusiastic leadership.The residents didn't seem too thrilled either, but they had nice things to say about the new PD. Grady is also a huge plus to training there in my opinion, but it's unstable financially. Although they recently got an influx of cash, I wasn't reassured that the $$ would fix the problems long enough for me to do my training there. I hate program bashing, makes me feel bad. But cards is awesome there.

 

[digoybugoy]

I think the reputation of your medical school matters a lot as well. For instance I have a higher step 1 score than the OP and even higher step 2 score. I also have pubs and research but yep no interview at Emory no Penn no MGH no JHop no Harvard programs no UChicago and no NW. People from my class who have even higher scores than me have no interviews at those programs but did have interviews at Emory, UChicago and NW. I did match at a "top 10" program but I believe only after someone cancelled their interview did this program offer me the interview late. So yeah if you did go to a name med school that matters A LOT.

 

[tncekm]

I think the reputation of your medical school matters a lot as well. For instance I have a higher step 1 score than the OP and even higher step 2 score. I also have pubs and research but yep no interview at Emory no Penn no MGH no JHop no Harvard programs no UChicago and no NW. People from my class who have even higher scores than me have no interviews at those programs but did have interviews at Emory, UChicago and NW. I did match at a "top 10" program but I believe only after someone cancelled their interview did this program offer me the interview late. So yeah if you did go to a name med school that matters A LOT.

No, you're right. Anybody who denies that academia is ridiculously elitist is probably not seeing the big picture very clearly.

 

[Hassler]

I would second that. I had interviews at Hopkins, PENN, MGH, Brigham, but no invite from Emory.

Keep in mind you can also be "overqualified" for certain programs. They want to interview people who might end up at their place and not waste time on super candidates who interview at all top programs. With that said, they probably still overshot a bit this year and ended up with unfilled spots. If you are "overqualified" and genuinely interested in Emory, you definitely should send them a letter expressing your interest.

 

[digoybugoy]

funny, I did send Emory and where I matched eventually an email stating that my step 2 score was out including a link to my publications on pubmed. I also said that I was genuinely interested in their program. That top 10 program did send me an interview but no such luck from Emory. You bet they're elitist and very short sighted.

 

[ResidentMD]

funny, I did send Emory and where I matched eventually an email stating that my step 2 score was out including a link to my publications on pubmed. I also said that I was genuinely interested in their program. That top 10 program did send me an interview but no such luck from Emory. You bet they're elitist and very short sighted.

I think it had something to do with the way the program was run, and the leadership. I had similar issues with Emory this year, as described in the posts above. However, I was happy where I matched, and my friends who received an invite from Emory told me it was a blessing in disguise that I didnt have to spend time and money to interview there.

I hope things change with the new administration, because Grady is just such an awesome place, and you also have the CDC nearby; it would be a shame for the program to lose reputation and keep losing out on good candidates.

 

[Speculatrix]

They tend to think they are better than they are. They are a good program, easily in the top tier 30 or so programs, but I think they have an overly inflated sense of where they sit in the academic world (thus their lack of filling - didn't interview enough people [although hindsight is always 20/20]) and as such may not interview the OP, even though he has a better than average application, it may not measure up to their own ideas of who they think should be interviewing with them.

I am so shocked to agree with you on something (! - though really I hope it continues )

But, yes, this is correct. Emory seems to be really weird like that. I think they interview a lot of high caliber candidates, but many just turn them down eventually for superior programs.

The impression from my interview there was that given the huge class size, there didn't seem to be much "cohesion" in the classes and cliques developed rapidly. When they talked about the international experience, I remember it being a really competitive process amongst residents to get a position / funding for going abroad, which I thought was a little stupid for such a large "prestigious" program. This was a huge turnoff. I mean come on, even Brown pretty much guarantees you that experience if you really want it (and I really liked Brown: this would be another good choice for the OP, in my opinion). Unlike what another poster said, I thought the Emory admin was really nice (though NEVER answered her phone) but was so sweet by email and accommodated what I needed.

The Emory preinterview dinner was kind of lame though. Plus it didn't seem like there was a great linked CDC option, analogous to Baylor + MDACC (right next door, some linked faculty, but no formal or even semiformal linkage). Grady was a huge plus though, and looked a lot nicer than I expected.

People who didn't interview at Emory aren't missing out I feel. It was a large interview day, and I think they do interview quite a lot of people, but I still think they need to cast their net EVEN wider.

OP: I think you will get an interview at UMich, they interview a lot, and the Pfizer lab takeover will only make them stronger. This is a solid hospital and you'll do well, especially if the APD who interviews you likes you (mine didn't I think, though sent me a polite handwritten xmas card). Apply early as I believe dates filled really quickly for it, and they were slow to update the website after cancellations. Excellent preinterview dinner with great resident showing (and free etoh!).

UChicago will be very tough for you - it is a competitive, rigorous (q4) yet surprisingly small program and I feel they are looking for a certain kind of rockstar - i.e. the one with higher board scores, much better grades, research, and consistent performance. Amazing people though, very small # of invitees per day. One of the best morning reports on the trail, NICE pd's, and amazing fellowship match. No preinterview dinner and terrible lunch though. Great schwag bag.

Northwestern: apply early and I think you maaay get an invite. One of my bff's (who matched at BWH) got rejected from here, and he thinks it might have been bc he talked about his interest in indigent care in his personal statement. This is a ritzy hospital in a ritzy area of town, I'm not sure if there was a matchup there.

Try to do better on Step 2. If you rock through UWorld and set a short window for study (3-5 weeks at MOST I feel), I think you should be able to go up.

Depending on how the rest of your class is, and if you market yourself with a specific niche (eg. mine was obviously research), I wouldn't be terribly surprised if you could even get an interview at BIDMC.

If you improve ~20 points on Step 2, I would also think about adding Vanderbilt, maybe Baylor. Didn't say anything about NY but I think you're a shoe-in at Einstein and Downstate, and may get an NYU interview. Add Brown as well.

 

[chitown82]

I am so shocked to agree with you on something (! - though really I hope it continues )

But, yes, this is correct. Emory seems to be really weird like that. I think they interview a lot of high caliber candidates, but many just turn them down eventually for superior programs.

The impression from my interview there was that given the huge class size, there didn't seem to be much "cohesion" in the classes and cliques developed rapidly. When they talked about the international experience, I remember it being a really competitive process amongst residents to get a position / funding for going abroad, which I thought was a little stupid for such a large "prestigious" program. This was a huge turnoff. I mean come on, even Brown pretty much guarantees you that experience if you really want it (and I really liked Brown: this would be another good choice for the OP, in my opinion). Unlike what another poster said, I thought the Emory admin was really nice (though NEVER answered her phone) but was so sweet by email and accommodated what I needed.

The Emory preinterview dinner was kind of lame though. Plus it didn't seem like there was a great linked CDC option, analogous to Baylor + MDACC (right next door, some linked faculty, but no formal or even semiformal linkage). Grady was a huge plus though, and looked a lot nicer than I expected.

People who didn't interview at Emory aren't missing out I feel. It was a large interview day, and I think they do interview quite a lot of people, but I still think they need to cast their net EVEN wider.

OP: I think you will get an interview at UMich, they interview a lot, and the Pfizer lab takeover will only make them stronger. This is a solid hospital and you'll do well, especially if the APD who interviews you likes you (mine didn't I think, though sent me a polite handwritten xmas card). Apply early as I believe dates filled really quickly for it, and they were slow to update the website after cancellations. Excellent preinterview dinner with great resident showing (and free etoh!).

UChicago will be very tough for you - it is a competitive, rigorous (q4) yet surprisingly small program and I feel they are looking for a certain kind of rockstar - i.e. the one with higher board scores, much better grades, research, and consistent performance. Amazing people though, very small # of invitees per day. One of the best morning reports on the trail, NICE pd's, and amazing fellowship match. No preinterview dinner and terrible lunch though. Great schwag bag.

Northwestern: apply early and I think you maaay get an invite. One of my bff's (who matched at BWH) got rejected from here, and he thinks it might have been bc he talked about his interest in indigent care in his personal statement. This is a ritzy hospital in a ritzy area of town, I'm not sure if there was a matchup there.

Try to do better on Step 2. If you rock through UWorld and set a short window for study (3-5 weeks at MOST I feel), I think you should be able to go up.

Depending on how the rest of your class is, and if you market yourself with a specific niche (eg. mine was obviously research), I wouldn't be terribly surprised if you could even get an interview at BIDMC.

If you improve ~20 points on Step 2, I would also think about adding Vanderbilt, maybe Baylor. Didn't say anything about NY but I think you're a shoe-in at Einstein and Downstate, and may get an NYU interview. Add Brown as well.

This is solid advice and a solid assessment of the OP's chances.

 

[digoybugoy]

Apply to some "lesser known" but good programs as well ie cincinnati (I admire this program a lot) , case western, florida gainesville, unc, ohsu, and of course utsw. you would be surprised at how snobby some programs are. but like I said if you do come from a name med school by all means take advantage.

 

[dragonfly99]

I think the OP can have a shot at most of those programs...some may reject you, but it's not silly to try.
OP would also have a shot at places like Baylor, Vanderbilt, etc. Some of this does depend on your school...if you're at a school that is known to grade hard or just very hard to get into (numbers-wise) then you may get an invite at some of these places even without being in the top of your class or AOA.
OP needs to try very hard to honor her medicine subI.
I don't think the Step 2 score necessarily needs to go up.
Good LOR's and Honors in the subI would go further.

 

[Scut]

My advice: you won't know until you try. What have you got to loose?

 

[Speculatrix]

My advice: you won't know until you try. What have you got to loose?

I feel this is stupid advice. There is a lot to lose, time, money, applying for places where you're clearly the black sheep without any other redeeming qualities. Of course this requires a degree of insight, which the applicant may not have until they talk to someone a lot smarter (PD, Chair, Dean, etc)

 

[dragonfly99]

I agree with getting advice from faculty, deans, etc. but ALL advice must be taken with a grain of salt. I was told by a couple people that I either would not be competitive for cards or would not be a good cardiologist and then I matched into a good academic program and am thriving there.
Also, when you are an applicant like the OP (mix of high board scores, etc. with maybe not so great grades, or vice versa) I think it may be hard to predict how you'll do in the Match. And then you have this whole situation with the number of US med school grads going up every year. I think the best defense is to apply broadly, go on enough interviews and don't get your heart too set on any 1 or 2 programs.

 

[MagsBudz]

Thank you guys so much for your advice and opinions!

 

[Cardiologist]

hey guys,

as application times coming closer I am getting more and more scared about my chances of matching to a good IM program especially with my poor Step 1 score (204/84). I would really appreciate any recommendation of programs and also how to salvage my application. I hear about taking step 2 early- but what's the latest I can take it to still get interviews (Sept/Oct?). I def. want to do fellowship so am looking mostly at academic programs. below are my stats.

USMLE: Step 1: 204/84, STEP 2- plz recommend when to take
Grades: probably lower to middle third of class.
Clerkship Grades: HP-medicine, HP-pedes, HP- ob, P- Family med. H- Surg, Psych-HP
Research: in med school (no publication yet), before medschool w/ one publication

Thanks guys and I am really hoping for some responses and advice from you all.

 

[Pkboi24]

hey guys,

as application times coming closer I am getting more and more scared about my chances of matching to a good IM program especially with my poor Step 1 score (204/84). I would really appreciate any recommendation of programs and also how to salvage my application. I hear about taking step 2 early- but what's the latest I can take it to still get interviews (Sept/Oct?). I def. want to do fellowship so am looking mostly at academic programs. below are my stats.

USMLE: Step 1: 204/84, STEP 2- plz recommend when to take
Grades: probably lower to middle third of class.
Clerkship Grades: HP-medicine, HP-pedes, HP- ob, P- Family med. H- Surg, Psych-HP
Research: in med school (no publication yet), before medschool w/ one publication

Thanks guys and I am really hoping for some responses and advice from you all.

You could probably apply to some mid tier programs, unless you rock Step 2. I'd say you need to take Step 2 in July at the latest. The truth is with a below avg Step 1 score you'll have to apply very broadly but on the bright side, you'll definitely get in somewhere.

 

[jdh71]

hey guys,

as application times coming closer I am getting more and more scared about my chances of matching to a good IM program especially with my poor Step 1 score (204/84). I would really appreciate any recommendation of programs and also how to salvage my application. I hear about taking step 2 early- but what's the latest I can take it to still get interviews (Sept/Oct?). I def. want to do fellowship so am looking mostly at academic programs. below are my stats.

USMLE: Step 1: 204/84, STEP 2- plz recommend when to take
Grades: probably lower to middle third of class.
Clerkship Grades: HP-medicine, HP-pedes, HP- ob, P- Family med. H- Surg, Psych-HP
Research: in med school (no publication yet), before medschool w/ one publication

Thanks guys and I am really hoping for some responses and advice from you all.

Step 2 early and Sub-I (AI . . . whatever they call it at your school) early - get honors. Find a research interest, start a project so that way you can have something in the research experience section, and present a poster at your regional ACP come early fall.

so to sum it up:

1. Step 2 Early, rock it . . . so hard . . .
2. Sub-I early . . . honor it
3. Get involved in a research project
4. Present a poster (or oral case) at your regional ACP come this fall

Good luck

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Agree with advice above. Assuming the fellowship you're interested in is Cards (wild guess), a better step 2 score is vital. Plenty of good academic programs will interview you with those stats.

 

[Cardiologist]

Thanks everyone for all your advice. I appreciate it. any names of programs you think might be within my reach with these stats. Also is there a site where I can look at the average Step scores of the residents.
Thanks guys

 

[Cardiologist]

hey guys,

i have one more question. I am trying to decide if I should push back my Sub I in Sept-Oct in order to get some free time to study for Step II since I won't be done with third year til August. I know this is not a fair question, but given my situation (Step 1 204/84) do you think a good step 2 score is worth more than a sub i letter?

appreciate ur help.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I feel this is stupid advice. There is a lot to lose, time, money, applying for places where you're clearly the black sheep without any other redeeming qualities.

Time involved: the amount of time needed to check a few boxes on ERAS (i.e. negligible)

Money involved: ERAS fees are lump-summed by groups of ten; unless you get to an absurd number of programs (i.e. >20, which most medicine applicants don't), you are talking about $8 per additional program.

In my mind, a negligible amount of time and $8 per are worth it to take a shot at a few "dream" programs.