My Dilemma!!!

[DexterMorganSK]

Greetings,

I am non-trad. 31 years old. Have past loans working for an MPH. Single, but have parents to take care of, as they are getting older. I want to do podiatry because I feel like this field has great potential, job growth, earnings/etc and it all seems great. But I am also aware of the income disparities after graduation, the need for a fellowship for better job/income opportunities, and the difference in scope of practice from one state to another.

Thus,

While applying to Podiatry school and studying for the MCAT, I also applied to few Post-bacc programs affiliated with DO schools and few Pharmacy Schools. I have been accepted to 1 Postbacc program, 2 Pharmacy schools so far, to start in the Fall.

I know about the job saturation with the PharmD currently, but I have also seen new graduates getting job offers right after graduation (about 120K in retail in NY), I also have a close friend who can help me find a job in the future. Being a DO is great and all, but there is also the risk of not making it into the program because I would need to maintain a certain GPA and MCAT for a seat in the 2018 class.

After taking the MCAT yesterday, I am not sure how I will score and there is a possibility that I might have to re-take it, in that case, pushing my application for the 2018 cycle. I know this because I couldn't prepare myself that way I wanted to because I was a distracted/busy with personal things and attending interviews/etc for other programs listed here.

The timeline for the 3 careers will probably like this:

Pod : 4+3±1= 7-8 years
PharmD: 4±2= 4-6 (if i do residency)
Postbacc/DO: 1+4+3= 8, if i do a 3 yr residency!

That being said, what would you do in my position? I know I should wait until the scores come out in June and try for Podiatry school, but what if I have to retake it and go for the 2018 cycle? Should I, at that point, forget Pod and jump to either the Pharmacy or the Postbacc?

Apologies for making this long but thanks for reading and any advice/criticism.

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[Cranjis McBasketball]

Greetings,

I am non-trad. 31 years old. Have past loans working for an MPH. Single, but have parents to take care of, as they are getting older. I want to do podiatry because I feel like this field has great potential, job growth, earnings/etc and it all seems great. But I am also aware of the income disparities after graduation, the need for a fellowship for better job/income opportunities, and the difference in scope of practice from one state to another.

Thus,

While applying to Podiatry school and studying for the MCAT, I also applied to few Post-bacc programs affiliated with DO schools and few Pharmacy Schools. I have been accepted to 1 Postbacc program, 2 Pharmacy schools so far, to start in the Fall.

I know about the job saturation with the PharmD currently, but I have also seen new graduates getting job offers right after graduation (about 120K in retail in NY), I also have a close friend who can help me find a job in the future. Being a DO is great and all, but there is also the risk of not making it into the program because I would need to maintain a certain GPA and MCAT for a seat in the 2018 class.

After taking the MCAT yesterday, I am not sure how I will score and there is a possibility that I might have to re-take it, in that case, pushing my application for the 2018 cycle. I know this because I couldn't prepare myself that way I wanted to because I was a distracted/busy with personal things and attending interviews/etc for other programs listed here.

The timeline for the 3 careers will probably like this:

Pod : 4+3±1= 7-8 years
PharmD: 4±2= 4-6 (if i do residency)
Postbacc/DO: 1+4+3= 8, if i do a 3 yr residency!

That being said, what would you do in my position? I know I should wait until the scores come out in June and try for Podiatry school, but what if I have to retake it and go for the 2018 cycle? Should I, at that point, forget Pod and jump to either the Pharmacy or the Postbacc?

Apologies for making this long but thanks for reading and any advice/criticism.

What are your reasons for wanting to do each route? (Besides the time length and income) and are those the only 3 routes you wanna pursue? What are some things you must have in your future career?

 

[AttackNME]

You need to figure out what it is that you want, if you are wavering between pharmacy and podiatry that sounds like you haven't figured that out yet. Go shadow people and see if you can see yourself doing that. I have had several classmates drop out and go on to pursue a completely different career, adding even more debt. I've even seen someone graduate, get the DPM degree, only to finally figure out they wanted to do something else. If you had known where you want to go you could have focused more on studying for the mcat, an important thing to do so you don't have to repeat it, and getting a high mcat can get you scholarships too.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

What are your reasons for wanting to do each route? (Besides the time length and income) and are those the only 3 routes you wanna pursue? What are some things you must have in your future career?

Thanks for reading.

I'm all about patient care. For the past 5-10 years, I have been involved with patients of all groups, from adults to kids. So a career where I would be helping others to relive them from their sufferings. That said, I also do not want to make say 80k after going through a 7yr program and with 250K+ loans.


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[DexterMorganSK]

You need to figure out what it is that you want, if you are wavering between pharmacy and podiatry that sounds like you haven't figured that out yet. Go shadow people and see if you can see yourself doing that. I have had several classmates drop out and go on to pursue a completely different career, adding even more debt. I've even seen someone graduate, get the DPM degree, only to finally figure out they wanted to do something else. If you had known where you want to go you could have focused more on studying for the mcat, an important thing to do so you don't have to repeat it, and getting a high mcat can get you scholarships too.

Thank you for reading and your feedback. I have shadowed two Pods already and will be shadowing more this month, until I receive the score in June.

But maybe I should also find someone in pharmacy working for a hospital to shadow. I know about the retail stuff though, as I do have a tech license.


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[738177]

.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

See and if it were me, I wouldn't do a post bacc unless I was absolutely sure I wanted to do DO and wasn't going to do anything else. DOs don't have it so great right now either as they have merged residencies and they have a lower percentage of matching. So Id do postbacc ONLY if i was dead set on DO. Otherwise its a waste of money and time. It sounds like podiatry is your top option, you're just worried about a few what ifs. Luckily a lot of those what ifs are up to you. I would wait to see what your MCAT score is. If its too low for pod school and you don't wanna wait a full year then Id honestly consider PA or nursing/NP route.

Again thats just what I would do if I were 31 and in your exact shoes. That said, I would again just repeat that I would wait to see what your MCAT score is.

 

[ill be a doc soon]

I can see how your parents getting older makes you want to get everything done fast, trust me, i'm in the same situation.

Podiatrists dont make 80k, unless you're working in a really saturated area like Los Angeles or Manhattan. I mean come on, thats barely more than you make in residency!
I also looked around the threads on here, and ive seen plenty of people with job offers 200k+, similar to what primary care docs get, so I dont think loans would be too difficult to pay back. Now, these guys were probably top 25% of their class and got a top residency, so it all depends.

I have a pharmd family member who has a pretty sweet gig at a hospital making almost 200k, but I wonder how much he had to bust his ass just to get that job. He has told me not to consider pharmacy because he isnt too sure about the future of the profession (job outlook).

Personally, I think you should do the postbacc at a DO school, and do well in it and enroll at that med school the year after. If you're really into feet/surgery, try to get into an ortho residency after DO school (lol I know thats really hard). But in terms of job security/happiness, I think MD/DO is the way to go!

Which postbacc did you get into?

 

[Nippyfan]

So, similar to you, I too was contemplating DO, pharmacy and podiatry before I settled into podiatry, and although we're at different stages in life (I'm 23), I think sharing my reasons for ultimately choosing podiatry may help you out.

As far as DO goes, it seems time is an issue. As you mentioned, your parents are aging and you want to be there for them. Totally understandable. Now, I'm not sure what EC's you have, or shadowing hours you've completed...basically the characteristics that would make your app stand out (also without an MCAT score--hard to really gauge how competitive you are). So, aside and apart from the post-bacc you may need to do some other things to make sure you have a successful AACOMAS cycle. Also, as SmurfeyD mentioned above, post merger, the future of DOs ability to match into pretty much anything beyond FM/IM is sort of uncertain. With the rapid expansion of class sizes and the relentless opening of new schools all over the country, the number of graduates will soon surpass the amount of residency spots available. So by the time you graduate, it is unknown whether anything moderately competitive may even be an option. That may not be an issue for you though, since you would likely choose a speciality with the shortest residency due to time constraints. Also, really think about whether you want to put yourself through 1-2 years of med school level work (and placing yourself in more debt---you mentioned you're already in debt from your masters) with a possibility of having nothing to show for it in the end. Time is of the essence, so it may be wise to place all of your energy into a goal with a foreseeable finish line.

Pharmacy was a little more tempting to me, actually. 4 years of schooling, no residency (was content with retail), and a starting salary of 120K. Sounds great! Problem is the job market/outlook really is an issue. Just like with the DO profession, pharmacy schools are churning out more graduates than there are positions to fill. I know of a lot of people who landed 120K jobs (similar to your friend in NY) and were happy for a while--until some of their hours were cut. Some others were not able to find jobs at all for quite a few months. Also, job security isn't the best. If you're making $60 an hour for a number of years, don't think a company won't lay you off to hire a new graduate who would be ecstatic with a $45-50 an hour salary. Retail chains will cut costs wherever they can. You say you have a friend who can help you get a job though, inquire about that, because if that's true, this may be your best option especially when considering your time constraints.

Now, I ultimately chose podiatry even after considering all of the concerns you mentioned. With regards to the 80K figure---I don't think recent graduates are accepting offers like that for the most part. Again, though, with the way podiatry groups structure their contracts you may see a base figure of 80K, and the rest of your income is percentage based...so the amount actually being deposited into your account is reflective of a much higher salary. So you may clear 80K within the first 6 months and receive maybe 45-50% of whatever you generate thereafter. So if you're going on simplyhired or indeed and seeing salary ranges of 70-90K and getting worried, it may be those kind of compensation structures that you're looking at. Now, ill be a doc soon mentioned that the people making 200K+ were probably top 25% and got great residencies...that is probably true, but not everyone can complete their residency at Mercy Hospital or one of the Kaiser locations in Cali...If you're getting PMSR/RRA training and apply yourself during residency so that you feel confident enough in your ability to perform surgical procedures, there is no reason why you can't be picked up by a hospital or multi-special group. Sure, not everyone will obtain the most coveted residency or land that coveted ortho group, foot/ankle position, but there are many job avenues in this profession...be personable, work hard, keep focused and you'll be compensated for your work. If you have reservations about not being compensated in podiatry, I don't think that should be an issue, especially if you intend to work hard.

Lastly, if you decide none of the aforementioned routes are for you, have you considered nursing? You can get into an associates RN program and clear 60K EASY after graduation. You're male, even better for job prospects--some even give sign on bonuses. Not sure where you live, but if you're in the South, nurses are compensated quite well. While you generate income and remain close to your parents, you can also work your way through a BSN (that your job may pay for) and go all the way up to NP (100K+ salary) or CRNA (180K+ salary).

Definitely do some thinking, talk to your parents about it, see what they think, but don't overthink it just yet--wait on that MCAT score. If you don't need to retake it, that may make some of this clearer for you. Good luck!

 

[Nowehjose]

No one makes 80k a year after a year in NYC... if they are, they are either socially awkward or terrible physicians or have bosses whom are thieves. Trust me, I have asked. By the way, idk why people are building up family care doctors, because it takes longer for them to start a practice and earn high salaries. I have family members who practice. MD/DO 's are robbed the first years of practicing too, so? Most physicians I know told me not to do medicine... here I am still. You can't force yourself to do stuff, I looked into pharmacy too, because of my gf. Nope, not for me. Maybe it's for you, maybe not.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Do the postbacc.
You can get into Pharmacy and Podiatry schools any time you want, even if you don't get the required GPA in your postbacc.
I'm guessing that being a non-trad, you're hesitant to dip your toes into careers that have unpredictable/uncertain income and future. It's understandable. I would try my luck with the DO affiliated postbacc even though it'll add another year and further loans to your debt. If anything, i'd do this for my own sanity. Otherwise, you'll spend 7 miserable years in Podiatry constantly asking yourself "will i make enough".

Just my $0.02.

Thank you. It makes sense what you're saying and I also get a shot at the mcat again, I mean I get to take it again. The postbacc is one at VCOM so as long as I meet their requirements, I should have a seat. The only thing holding me back is the private loan I need to fund the postbacc. But, it's something I have to think a bit more about.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

So, similar to you, I too was contemplating DO, pharmacy and podiatry before I settled into podiatry, and although we're at different stages in life (I'm 23), I think sharing my reasons for ultimately choosing podiatry may help you out.

As far as DO goes, it seems time is an issue. As you mentioned, your parents are aging and you want to be there for them. Totally understandable. Now, I'm not sure what EC's you have, or shadowing hours you've completed...basically the characteristics that would make your app stand out (also with an MCAT score--hard to really gauge how competitive you are). So, aside and apart from the post-bacc you may need to do some other things to make sure you have a successful AACOMAS cycle. Also, as SmurfeyD mentioned above, post merger, the future of DOs ability to match into pretty much anything beyond FM/IM is sort of uncertain. With the rapid expansion of class sizes and the relentless opening of new schools all over the country, the number of graduates will soon surpass the amount of residency spots available. So by the time you graduate, it is unknown whether anything moderately competitive may even be an option. That may not be an issue for you though, since you would likely choose a speciality with the shortest residency due to time constraints. Also, really think about whether you want to put yourself through 1-2 years of med school level work (and placing yourself in more debt---you mentioned you're already in debt from your masters) with a possibility of having nothing to show for it in the end. Time is of the essence, so it may be wise to place all of your energy into a goal with a foreseeable finish line.

Pharmacy was a little more tempting to me, actually. 4 years of schooling, no residency (was content with retail), and a starting salary of 120K. Sounds great! Problem is the job market/outlook really is an issue. Just like with the DO profession, pharmacy schools are churning out more graduates than there are positions to fill. I know of a lot of people who landed 120K jobs (similar to your friend in NY) and were happy for a while--until some of their hours were cut. Some others were not able to find jobs at all for quite a few months. Also, job security isn't the best. If you're making $60 an hour for a number of years, don't think a company won't lay you off to hire a new graduate who would be ecstatic with a $45-50 an hour salary. Retail chains will cut costs wherever they can. You say you have a friend who can help you get a job though, inquire about that, because if that's true, this may be your best option especially when considering your time constraints.

Now, I ultimately chose podiatry even after considering all of the concerns you mentioned. With regards to the 80K figure---I don't think recent graduates are accepting offers like that for the most part. Again, though, with the way podiatry groups structure their contracts you may see a base figure of 80K, and the rest of your income is percentage based...so the amount actually being deposited into your account is reflective of a much higher salary. So you may clear 80K within the first 6 months and receive maybe 45-50% of whatever you generate thereafter. So if you're going on simplyhired or indeed and seeing salary ranges of 70-90K and getting worried, it may be those kind of compensation structures that you're looking at. Now, ill be a doc soon mentioned that the people making 200K+ were probably top 25% and got great residencies...that is probably true, but not everyone can complete their residency at Mercy Hospital or one of the Kaiser locations in Cali...If you're getting PMSR/RRA training and apply yourself during residency so that you feel confident enough in your ability to perform surgical procedures, there is no reason why you can't be picked up by a hospital or multi-special group. Sure, not everyone will obtain the most coveted residency or land that coveted ortho group, foot/ankle position, but there are many job avenues in this profession...be personable, work hard, keep focused and you'll be compensated for your work. If you have reservations about not being compensated in podiatry, I don't think that should be an issue, especially if work hard.

Lastly, if you decide none of the aforementioned routes are for you, have you considered nursing? You can get into an associates RN program and clear 60K EASY after graduation. You're male, even better for job prospects--some even give sign on bonuses. Not sure where you live, but if you're in the South, nurses are compensated quite well. While you generate income and remain close to your parents, you can also work your way through a BSN (that your job may pay for) and go all the way up to NP (100K+ salary) or CRNA (180K+ salary).

Definitely do some thinking, talk to your parents about it, see what they think, but don't overthink it just yet--wait on that MCAT score. If you don't need to retake it, that may make some of this clearer for you. Good luck!

Thank you for reading and your great feedback. I think you and SmurfeyD are saying similar things.

I'll address the PA/NP route first. I did apply to PA school about 2 years ago. I applied to around 20 schools (cost me close to 3K), but I did not get a single interview. I have the clinical hours but my undergrad gpa is low but also the fact that some of the premed courses I took are about 10 years old. That said, if I want to do Pa/Np route, I would have to go back to school, do a DIY post bacc, and retake these classes again. Not only will this take more than a year to complete, but I will also have either pay it myself or take out a private loan (something I would hate todo), to fund the classes, beacuse as a postbacc with no degree, you're not eligible for Financial aid.

With the nursing route: I forgot to mention above, but I have been also accepted to a BSN program to start in the fall. Its a 2 year program that will cost around 100K, its at a private institution. And like Nippyfan said, I also wanted to do CRNA, but going from BSN to NP to CRNA will easily take close to 4-5 years ( in this time I can finish any type of medical/pharm schools). And TBH, I do not pursue any field below a doctorate level, especially since I already have masters.

I understand the Pharmacy saturation and that is something that is holding me back to just settle for and moving on with it. But, doing pharmacy is the shortest route to finish a doctorate program and make money, at least for now. Although, if I do pharmacy, I would try for a residency and do my best to be in a hospital.

With the DO, yeah the merger may be bad for them, but we don't know what will happen. We can only extrapolate. And, If I go this route then I'm not looking to be a plastic surgeon, I would go into primary care such as IM or EM. As far I know, in the future, DOs will be limited to primary care specialties (IM/FM/EM/GAS) and it will be much harder but not impossible for them to choose a competitive field like derm/ortho/etc.

Finally, my ECs are fine. I have two past employments in Public health, one is working for a hospital, and other is working for the Dept of Health in NYC. Also, I have about 3 years of volunteer work in the ED, and about 2-3 years as a medical assistant at two different hospitals.
According to AACOMAS, my gpas are c3.3/s3.2, this includes the 3.8mph as well (but adcoms don't care about grad work much).

 

[DexterMorganSK]

I can see how your parents getting older makes you want to get everything done fast, trust me, i'm in the same situation.

Podiatrists dont make 80k, unless you're working in a really saturated area like Los Angeles or Manhattan. I mean come on, thats barely more than you make in residency!
I also looked around the threads on here, and ive seen plenty of people with job offers 200k+, similar to what primary care docs get, so I dont think loans would be too difficult to pay back. Now, these guys were probably top 25% of their class and got a top residency, so it all depends.

I have a pharmd family member who has a pretty sweet gig at a hospital making almost 200k, but I wonder how much he had to bust his ass just to get that job. He has told me not to consider pharmacy because he isnt too sure about the future of the profession (job outlook).

Personally, I think you should do the postbacc at a DO school, and do well in it and enroll at that med school the year after. If you're really into feet/surgery, try to get into an ortho residency after DO school (lol I know thats really hard). But in terms of job security/happiness, I think MD/DO is the way to go!

Which postbacc did you get into?

Thank you for reading. I am def looking more into the postbacc for the DO route and will decide once the scores come in. It's great to make that 200K as a pharmD but yeah, I bet it took many years of struggle to reach that level, as the saturation is pretty real.

The 80K salary I stated above is just an example I used, I know DPMs make more than that and no one as a DPM should take that offer unless there are incentives involved. Many people here are getting great offers, but I have lived in NY for all my life and would like to stay here as well in the future, so numbers in this state may not be close to 200K for a new DPM. It's probably anywhere from 80-120K right out of residency. I know those numbers based on speaking with current DPMs and shadowing them. Whereas, I know for the pharmD future is not looking good, they are at this point in time, are making at least 120K in retail right out of pharmacy school in NY.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

No one makes 80k a year after a year in NYC... if they are, they are either socially awkward or terrible physicians or have bosses whom are thieves. Trust me, I have asked. By the way, idk why people are building up family care doctors, because it takes longer for them to start a practice and earn high salaries. I have family members who practice. MD/DO 's are robbed the first years of practicing too, so? Most physicians I know told me not to do medicine... here I am still. You can't force yourself to do stuff, I looked into pharmacy too, because of my gf. Nope, not for me. Maybe it's for you, maybe not.

Thanks for reading. Yeah, that 80K was just an example. And it's true that IM/FM docs here in NY are making probably 130-160K starting. The amount of work they need to do to make over 200K is just crazy and there's so much political stuff involved with the insurance companies that treating that way you want to may not be a question. What I'm trying to say is that people with an MBA are basically saying what an MD/DO can and cannot do in a hospital setting. It's pretty ridiculous.

I think I also have to look more into Pharmacy, especially in a hospital setting. To my surprise, those who are completing a two-year residency as a PharmD to work for a hospital are making less or same as those with just a PharmD in retail. And the people in retail are making the most, so I'm not sure the reason for their residency. Maybe it's job security, better hours, or bonuses but its something I have to look more into.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Thanks for reading and your time guys. At this point, I think I should just wait and see what the score is. Shadow more. If the score is good enough for Pod school then great, otherwise we'll see.

 

[738177]

Thank you. It makes sense what you're saying and I also get a shot at the mcat again, I mean I get to take it again. The postbacc is one at VCOM so as long as I meet their requirements, I should have a seat. The only thing holding me back is the private loan I need to fund the postbacc. But, it's something I have to think a bit more about.

If this is a postbacc with guaranteed acceptance (rather than interview) then it's a no brainer to me. I'd 100% go with the postbacc. It's an extra year + more loan, yes, but it's literally going to be a non-factor when you're a physician.
Have you considered Touro's SMP in NY? I have friends that completed it and highly recommend it. Top 1/3rd of the class gets in AND from the MS students that apply through AACOMAS, another 1/3 to 1/2 gets in. Also, they bump 2-3 students up to 1st year after fall. It's a tough program but not impossible. Thought i'd throw it out there since you're from NY.

 

[738177]

So, similar to you, I too was contemplating DO, pharmacy and podiatry before I settled into podiatry, and although we're at different stages in life (I'm 23), I think sharing my reasons for ultimately choosing podiatry may help you out.

As far as DO goes, it seems time is an issue. As you mentioned, your parents are aging and you want to be there for them. Totally understandable. Now, I'm not sure what EC's you have, or shadowing hours you've completed...basically the characteristics that would make your app stand out (also with an MCAT score--hard to really gauge how competitive you are). So, aside and apart from the post-bacc you may need to do some other things to make sure you have a successful AACOMAS cycle. Also, as SmurfeyD mentioned above, post merger, the future of DOs ability to match into pretty much anything beyond FM/IM is sort of uncertain. With the rapid expansion of class sizes and the relentless opening of new schools all over the country, the number of graduates will soon surpass the amount of residency spots available. So by the time you graduate, it is unknown whether anything moderately competitive may even be an option. That may not be an issue for you though, since you would likely choose a speciality with the shortest residency due to time constraints. Also, really think about whether you want to put yourself through 1-2 years of med school level work (and placing yourself in more debt---you mentioned you're already in debt from your masters) with a possibility of having nothing to show for it in the end. Time is of the essence, so it may be wise to place all of your energy into a goal with a foreseeable finish line.
!

The other possibility is that the former AOA programs will continue taking DOs and DOs will continue to get ACGME residencies and nothing will change; schools will stop opening post-merger once they have to go through more stringent requirements to get accredited.

No one knows what will happen yet. It's all speculation at this point.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Thats awesome man! It sounds like DO is where your heart is. 31 is still young. Youll be graduated and dont with residency by 40. And then you still have 25-30 years of working. So dont feel pressed for time. Do what you WANT to do

 

[Podstar]

What do you want to get up every morning for the rest of your career and do? Your happiness and job satisfaction are most important!! Forget the money and time to get there, you will pay off your debt no matter which route you choose.

I shadowed a lot of pharmacy (have a family member pharmacist) and the patient interaction is very limited, mostly prescription advice and flu shots (which you are not paid for).

The DO route is great, I always admired primary care, but once you establish a patient base in office, most of the visits are prescription refills and check ups. I loved the long term patient-physician relationships.

Podiatry for me, was the all in one field it combines the long term patient-physician relationship with regular procedures to keep your hands wet. The salary and patient base are similar to primary care and you do not have to take call. Even though a primary care doc can likely say just come in tomorrow with whatever issue they get called for, you still have to pick up that phone during your kids baseball game.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck OP, whichever route you choose your patients will be in good hands, I can see you care a great deal!

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Just my 2 cents. Good luck OP, whichever route you choose your patients will be in good hands, I can see you care a great deal!

I wanna echo this that, any of these routes you take isnt gonna be wrong. These are all great fields and youll be happy and do well. So there isnt a wrong choice.

 

[dr.phoot]

Dex, regardless of what choice you make the time will keep moving regardless. Even if you forget med school altogether, those 8 years will still come by and go.

Any choice you take, you'll be fine. You've obviously done your research on all the avenues. Just go what you'll enjoy most.

Regarding your parents, just try to stay as close as possible to NY or wherever they live so you can make frequent visits while you're in school.

EDIT ---- If everything else fails, you can always fall back on your MPH degree and land a decent gig in administration or research

 

[Weirdy]

Personal opinions. Take with a grain of salt.

DO/Post bac route: You should only consider a post-bac if you are deadset on DO school. It is money you do not have for a degree that is useless unless you do well enough to get interviews. If you do decide to go DO, you need to go balls to the wall and realize that you are in it for the long haul. There is no going back after signing up for a post-bac or SMP.

Podiatry: Income shouldn't be your biggest concern. It is a logical concern but not the deciding one. Your bone with podiatry should be whether you like the scope of practice it offers. It checks your box for patient interaction and income. What you need to discern is how much you actually like it. I settled on podiatry because I did not have the grades for MD/DO. I did not have the desire to spend 2 more years on a post-bac or SMP after getting an MS. I jumped on podiatry and settled. It does have its problems but for my grades, work ethic, and the overall mood of the podiatry people I've run into, it fits me pretty well.

Pharm: I would advise against it. I have 2 personal friends who graduated in the early 2000s. 3 more set to graduate in the next 2 years. The first two are hired by major pharmacy retailers. Due to cutting hours and saturation, one of them is floating. The other is doing OK enough to pay off loans. The type of customers you run into will make you want to pull your hair out. 80% of the jobs out there are retail. I understand pharmacy loves pushing the patient interaction/clinical settings for pharmacists. However, at least in my city this is not the case. A majority of it is retail. Out of these 3 professions, I would say pharmacy has the least amount of meaningful patient interaction. Yes you may explain prescriptions to them and advise them on how to use it. You may even point them to the correct OTC they need help with or diagnose minor ailments. But the depth of patient interaction and diagnoses is no where near MD/DO/PA/DPM levels.

 

[FutureDoc3094]

What are your stats like if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Nippyfan]

My point exactly. You could start strong with the best of intentions, and then anything could happen. Lets say you get a 3.5 one semester and you need the 3.6 for auto matriculation...you're done. And you have more loans and nothing to show for them, but a meaningless certificate. Those programs are very high pressure and can be a gamble. The slightest hiccup and the road to matriculation could be ruined.

Personal opinions. Take with a grain of salt.

DO/Post bac route: You should only consider a post-bac if you are deadset on DO school. It is money you do not have for a degree that is useless unless you do well enough to get interviews. If you do decide to go DO, you need to go balls to the wall and realize that you are in it for the long haul. There is no going back after signing up for a post-bac or SMP.

Podiatry: Income shouldn't be your biggest concern. It is a logical concern but not the deciding one. Your bone with podiatry should be whether you like the scope of practice it offers. It checks your box for patient interaction and income. What you need to discern is how much you actually like it. I settled on podiatry because I did not have the grades for MD/DO. I did not have the desire to spend 2 more years on a post-bac or SMP after getting an MS. I jumped on podiatry and settled. It does have its problems but for my grades, work ethic, and the overall mood of the podiatry people I've run into, it fits me pretty well.

Pharm: I would advise against it. I have 2 personal friends who graduated in the early 2000s. 3 more set to graduate in the next 2 years. The first two are hired by major pharmacy retailers. Due to cutting hours and saturation, one of them is floating. The other is doing OK enough to pay off loans. The type of customers you run into will make you want to pull your hair out. 80% of the jobs out there are retail. I understand pharmacy loves pushing the patient interaction/clinical settings for pharmacists. However, at least in my city this is not the case. A majority of it is retail. Out of these 3 professions, I would say pharmacy has the least amount of meaningful patient interaction. Yes you may explain prescriptions to them and advise them on how to use it. You may even point them to the correct OTC they need help with or diagnose minor ailments. But the depth of patient interaction and diagnoses is no where near MD/DO/PA/DPM levels.

 

[Weirdy]

My point exactly. You could start strong with the best of intentions, and then anything could happen. Lets say you get a 3.5 one semester and you need the 3.6 for auto matriculation...you're done. And you have more loans and nothing to show for them, but a meaningless certificate. Those programs are very high pressure and can be a gamble. The slightest hiccup and the road to matriculation could be ruined.

I only mention the severity of it because I did an M.S. that had more to do with DPT than anything else. I'm out 40k in unsubsidized loans not including interest or subsidized undergrad loans. Yes it helped me to grow in many ways and allowed me to make my case for podiatry school. But if I could go back and kick myself for not working as hard as I could to accumulate less loans that could have gone towards a DPM/PA/Whatever degree, I would.

 

[pacpod]

Although these are all in helathcare, they are very different paths and practices. Keep shadowing and apply to what you feel you will be happiest in. Not worth saving a couple years on the front end if you are going to be miserable.

Also, regarding fellowships for podiatry - unless you have a specific area you want to focus on or you feel like your residency program was lacking, you don't have to do one. Most people in my year on here are not doing one. You shouldn't plan on doing a fellowship unless you have a good reason to do so. Otherwise it can be a waste of a year at resident salary.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Dex, regardless of what choice you make the time will keep moving regardless. Even if you forget med school altogether, those 8 years will still come by and go.

Any choice you take, you'll be fine. You've obviously done your research on all the avenues. Just go what you'll enjoy most.

Regarding your parents, just try to stay as close as possible to NY or wherever they live so you can make frequent visits while you're in school.

EDIT ---- If everything else fails, you can always fall back on your MPH degree and land a decent gig in administration or research

Thanks for positive words. Definitely helps build that confidence I was lacking.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Personal opinions. Take with a grain of salt.

DO/Post bac route: You should only consider a post-bac if you are deadset on DO school. It is money you do not have for a degree that is useless unless you do well enough to get interviews. If you do decide to go DO, you need to go balls to the wall and realize that you are in it for the long haul. There is no going back after signing up for a post-bac or SMP.

Podiatry: Income shouldn't be your biggest concern. It is a logical concern but not the deciding one. Your bone with podiatry should be whether you like the scope of practice it offers. It checks your box for patient interaction and income. What you need to discern is how much you actually like it. I settled on podiatry because I did not have the grades for MD/DO. I did not have the desire to spend 2 more years on a post-bac or SMP after getting an MS. I jumped on podiatry and settled. It does have its problems but for my grades, work ethic, and the overall mood of the podiatry people I've run into, it fits me pretty well.

Pharm: I would advise against it. I have 2 personal friends who graduated in the early 2000s. 3 more set to graduate in the next 2 years. The first two are hired by major pharmacy retailers. Due to cutting hours and saturation, one of them is floating. The other is doing OK enough to pay off loans. The type of customers you run into will make you want to pull your hair out. 80% of the jobs out there are retail. I understand pharmacy loves pushing the patient interaction/clinical settings for pharmacists. However, at least in my city this is not the case. A majority of it is retail. Out of these 3 professions, I would say pharmacy has the least amount of meaningful patient interaction. Yes you may explain prescriptions to them and advise them on how to use it. You may even point them to the correct OTC they need help with or diagnose minor ailments. But the depth of patient interaction and diagnoses is no where near MD/DO/PA/DPM levels.

Thanks for responding. I think it came off wrong because I am certainly NOT going into Podiatry for the money. I just think that after the 7-years of schooling/residency, we should be able to make enough to live somewhat ok life while paying the loan back and that can be hard with a low salary. However, I agree with everything you said. That postbacc won't be a joke and making that required gpa will be a pain. It's a huge risk both mentally and financially. It seems so far that Podiatry will be the safest option for me at this point in time. I mean if I was a little younger with no loans, I would do the postbacc for DO, but it seems like a gamble at this point. And, I also wish I studied harder back in undergrad or knew about Podiatry back then.

And if anyone is wondering which postbacc program it is, well here it is:

Graduate Certificate Premedical Program | VCOM - The Edward Via College of Osteopathic Medicine

 

[DexterMorganSK]

What are your stats like if you don't mind me asking?

I posted it above but for AACOMAS its: c3.3/s3.2/g3.8, on AACPMAS (without-grade-replacement): c3.1/s3.0

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Although these are all in helathcare, they are very different paths and practices. Keep shadowing and apply to what you feel you will be happiest in. Not worth saving a couple years on the front end if you are going to be miserable.

Also, regarding fellowships for podiatry - unless you have a specific area you want to focus on or you feel like your residency program was lacking, you don't have to do one. Most people in my year on here are not doing one. You shouldn't plan on doing a fellowship unless you have a good reason to do so. Otherwise it can be a waste of a year at resident salary.

Thank you. I hope to shadow soon, hopefully, this coming week. The pre-pods and the Pods appreciate you and the other Residents & Podiatrists feedbacks on this forum.

 

[Nippyfan]

So I actually have a friend in that particular program at VCOM and the MCAT score you get will determine whether or not you should pursue this route. If you get a 493 or below and have to keep a 3.7 or above for auto matriculation that might be too much of a gamble. People with a 490 MCAT having to maintain a 3.90 or above are probably stressed to the max. If you get the 494 or above--maintaining a 3.6 is doable.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Dex,

As you know, I am struggling with a similar situation as you. I have leaned more towards the post bacc for a couple reasons and I'll just throw in my two cents here, comping from my perspective if I were in your situation (Which I kind of am). I am in the middle of Nippy fan and You age wise, so here we go.

Post Bacc: I feel like if I did not do the Post Bacc, I would forever regret not going for it. With that said, I know it is a do or die situation, and that I have to prove myself and fight tooth and nail for a spot. If it doesn't pan out, then I bar myself from medical school (anything below a 3.5), although, with a 3.5 in an SMP, you could prolly still get into pod school. I would also only go to programs that guarantee a spot in the school (VCOM, LECOM, I think even LUCOM had a program that offered admission)

I am not a fan of the VCOM program. that 3.6 seems too high. LECOM requires a 3.0 for acceptance, that seems much more manageable. What happens if you get a 3.4?

Podiatry: A good fallback. There is nothing wrong with being a podiatrist. You have to learn to like feet and ankles, and be fine with choosing that specialty from the get go. You also have to reconcile the fact that you will be looked down on by your orthopedic peers, but the whole MD DO thing would be persistent if you went down the DO path too.

As a single man, I don't know many women who would sneer at the prospects of dating a podiatrist.

The podiatry path is the closest you are going to get to being a physician with the whole patient interaction thing.

One nice thing is the lifestyle. Its really a 40 hour workweek after residency. Its also something you can do for a long time. Old and tired at 60 years old and don't want to do surgery anymore? Work 3 days/week trimming callouses and corns, wound care, etc.

I personally don't want to go into podiatry not because "Ew feet", but because I really don't want to be a surgeon. I would rather do wound care and ingrown toenails than do bunion or hammertoe surgery.

As far as salary, I wouldn't worry too much. the consensus here is that everyone graduating with the new 3 year minimum residencies are pulling in around 120K-150K (gross, which after taxes is like 80K).

As far as being younger, I echo you entirely. I wish I would have been gun ho about podiatry back as an 18 year old. I would have finished college in three years getting an easy degree while still having fun at a big university, done podiatry in 7 years, and been a surgeon at age 28 making six figures and just giving everyone a thumbs up and a big old grin. I think just accepting the path from the get go would have been the easier route, and then making it all about having fun and enjoying life. I would have stopped worrying about it and embraced the Pod Life, being a person who picked it from the get go and forgetting the stuffy MDs and the wanna be MDs (DOs).

Heck, some pod schools admissions are so lax, you could prolly get away with doing two years of college at some schools.

No real problem with saturation (yet).

Pharmacy: Eh, after working in a pharmacy, I would do something else. Yeah, the 110K/year with only 4 years of schooling is nice, but saturation is starting to hit places even in middle sized towns. I would rather do Optometry.

BIG DISCLAIMER:
One thing is for Certain, I would NOT be happy as a Physician Assistant or Nurse Practitioner (Nurse Anesthetist too). PA is all fun and games until you hit age 40 and are taking orders from a hot shot 26 year old MD student (90K at age 25? Doctor like responsibilities? Wear the white coat? Sign me UP!). No way, Id be an optometrist before Id be a PA.

Podiatry does offer a ligit path to becoming a doctor in the united states, in a clinical sense. YOU are the specialist. YOU are the physician. It might not be the sexiest type of doctor, you might not be scoring the money like the Plastic Surgeons or Ophthalmologists make, but you are a doctor.

I encourage you to shadow some more pods. That really helped me come to terms with it (as in, if this was my only option, I would be happy being a pod).

Or fogo all this and do the smart thing: Dentistry.

 

[dr.phoot]

Dex,

As you know, I am struggling with a similar situation as you. I have leaned more towards the post bacc for a couple reasons and I'll just throw in my two cents here, comping from my perspective if I were in your situation (Which I kind of am). I am in the middle of Nippy fan and You age wise, so here we go.

Post Bacc: I feel like if I did not do the Post Bacc, I would forever regret not going for it. With that said, I know it is a do or die situation, and that I have to prove myself and fight tooth and nail for a spot. If it doesn't pan out, then I bar myself from medical school (anything below a 3.5), although, with a 3.5 in an SMP, you could prolly still get into pod school. I would also only go to programs that guarantee a spot in the school (VCOM, LECOM, I think even LUCOM had a program that offered admission)

I am not a fan of the VCOM program. that 3.6 seems too high. LECOM requires a 3.0 for acceptance, that seems much more manageable. What happens if you get a 3.4?

Podiatry: A good fallback. There is nothing wrong with being a podiatrist. You have to learn to like feet and ankles, and be fine with choosing that specialty from the get go. You also have to reconcile the fact that you will be looked down on by your orthopedic peers, but the whole MD DO thing would be persistent if you went down the DO path too.

As a single man, I don't know many women who would sneer at the prospects of dating a podiatrist.

The podiatry path is the closest you are going to get to being a physician with the whole patient interaction thing.

One nice thing is the lifestyle. Its really a 40 hour workweek after residency. Its also something you can do for a long time. Old and tired at 60 years old and don't want to do surgery anymore? Work 3 days/week trimming callouses and corns, wound care, etc.

I personally don't want to go into podiatry not because "Ew feet", but because I really don't want to be a surgeon. I would rather do wound care and ingrown toenails than do bunion or hammertoe surgery.

As far as salary, I wouldn't worry too much. the consensus here is that everyone graduating with the new 3 year minimum residencies are pulling in around 120K-150K (gross, which after taxes is like 80K).

As far as being younger, I echo you entirely. I wish I would have been gun ho about podiatry back as an 18 year old. I would have finished college in three years getting an easy degree while still having fun at a big university, done podiatry in 7 years, and been a surgeon at age 28 making six figures and just giving everyone a thumbs up and a big old grin. I think just accepting the path from the get go would have been the easier route, and then making it all about having fun and enjoying life. I would have stopped worrying about it and embraced the Pod Life, being a person who picked it from the get go and forgetting the stuffy MDs and the wanna be MDs (DOs).

Heck, some pod schools admissions are so lax, you could prolly get away with doing two years of college at some schools.

No real problem with saturation (yet).

Pharmacy: Eh, after working in a pharmacy, I would do something else. Yeah, the 110K/year with only 4 years of schooling is nice, but saturation is starting to hit places even in middle sized towns. I would rather do Optometry.

BIG DISCLAIMER:
One thing is for Certain, I would NOT be happy as a Physician Assistant or Nurse Practitioner (Nurse Anesthetist too). PA is all fun and games until you hit age 40 and are taking orders from a hot shot 26 year old MD student (90K at age 25? Doctor like responsibilities? Wear the white coat? Sign me UP!). No way, Id be an optometrist before Id be a PA.

Podiatry does offer a ligit path to becoming a doctor in the united states, in a clinical sense. YOU are the specialist. YOU are the physician. It might not be the sexiest type of doctor, you might not be scoring the money like the Plastic Surgeons or Ophthalmologists make, but you are a doctor.

I encourage you to shadow some more pods. That really helped me come to terms with it (as in, if this was my only option, I would be happy being a pod).

Or fogo all this and do the smart thing: Dentistry.

Nice write up. You chose podiatry though, right?

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Dex,

As you know, I am struggling with a similar situation as you. I have leaned more towards the post bacc for a couple reasons and I'll just throw in my two cents here, comping from my perspective if I were in your situation (Which I kind of am). I am in the middle of Nippy fan and You age wise, so here we go.

Post Bacc: I feel like if I did not do the Post Bacc, I would forever regret not going for it. With that said, I know it is a do or die situation, and that I have to prove myself and fight tooth and nail for a spot. If it doesn't pan out, then I bar myself from medical school (anything below a 3.5), although, with a 3.5 in an SMP, you could prolly still get into pod school. I would also only go to programs that guarantee a spot in the school (VCOM, LECOM, I think even LUCOM had a program that offered admission)

I am not a fan of the VCOM program. that 3.6 seems too high. LECOM requires a 3.0 for acceptance, that seems much more manageable. What happens if you get a 3.4?

Podiatry: A good fallback. There is nothing wrong with being a podiatrist. You have to learn to like feet and ankles, and be fine with choosing that specialty from the get go. You also have to reconcile the fact that you will be looked down on by your orthopedic peers, but the whole MD DO thing would be persistent if you went down the DO path too.

As a single man, I don't know many women who would sneer at the prospects of dating a podiatrist.

The podiatry path is the closest you are going to get to being a physician with the whole patient interaction thing.

One nice thing is the lifestyle. Its really a 40 hour workweek after residency. Its also something you can do for a long time. Old and tired at 60 years old and don't want to do surgery anymore? Work 3 days/week trimming callouses and corns, wound care, etc.

I personally don't want to go into podiatry not because "Ew feet", but because I really don't want to be a surgeon. I would rather do wound care and ingrown toenails than do bunion or hammertoe surgery.

As far as salary, I wouldn't worry too much. the consensus here is that everyone graduating with the new 3 year minimum residencies are pulling in around 120K-150K (gross, which after taxes is like 80K).

As far as being younger, I echo you entirely. I wish I would have been gun ho about podiatry back as an 18 year old. I would have finished college in three years getting an easy degree while still having fun at a big university, done podiatry in 7 years, and been a surgeon at age 28 making six figures and just giving everyone a thumbs up and a big old grin. I think just accepting the path from the get go would have been the easier route, and then making it all about having fun and enjoying life. I would have stopped worrying about it and embraced the Pod Life, being a person who picked it from the get go and forgetting the stuffy MDs and the wanna be MDs (DOs).

Heck, some pod schools admissions are so lax, you could prolly get away with doing two years of college at some schools.

No real problem with saturation (yet).

Pharmacy: Eh, after working in a pharmacy, I would do something else. Yeah, the 110K/year with only 4 years of schooling is nice, but saturation is starting to hit places even in middle sized towns. I would rather do Optometry.

BIG DISCLAIMER:
One thing is for Certain, I would NOT be happy as a Physician Assistant or Nurse Practitioner (Nurse Anesthetist too). PA is all fun and games until you hit age 40 and are taking orders from a hot shot 26 year old MD student (90K at age 25? Doctor like responsibilities? Wear the white coat? Sign me UP!). No way, Id be an optometrist before Id be a PA.

Podiatry does offer a ligit path to becoming a doctor in the united states, in a clinical sense. YOU are the specialist. YOU are the physician. It might not be the sexiest type of doctor, you might not be scoring the money like the Plastic Surgeons or Ophthalmologists make, but you are a doctor.

I encourage you to shadow some more pods. That really helped me come to terms with it (as in, if this was my only option, I would be happy being a pod).

Or fogo all this and do the smart thing: Dentistry.

Thanks, Gypsy. Appreciate and value your opinions. All the best to you in the Postbacc and, If you choose to do it then I'm sure you will make it. Just a small correction though that at Lecom a 3.0 will guarantee an interview but around a 3.4 will get you that conditional acceptance. I applied to vcom/lecom/lmu and will hear the other two after the score comes out. In either case, If I get into NYCPM, I'm most likely going for podiatry ^.^

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

As someone who was pre-dental for a while, dentistry is NOT the smart option haha. More and more schools are opening up, and with everyone hearing that "medicine is terrible right now with insurance" everyone is switching to dentistry. This is creating a HUGE supply of dental applicants, which is creating more schools, who keep raising their tuition prices. Midwestern's tuition ONLY is 71k.... That is just tuition. Because dental students do their "clinical years" at the school, they pay fees up the wazoo. It is not uncommon for dental grads to graduate with 500k in debt!!! And you may think "big deal, practice owners make 300k." Trends are changing a tonnnn for dentistry. As more and more students graduate with really high debts (the average debt has almost double in the past 10 years) less are able to take on even more debt to buy a practice. So they are falling into dental corporations and basically working as employees for dental "mills." They do this to minimize their school debts in hopes to eventually buy a practice. These dental grads at corporations are making 150k average. I don't know about you but 400-500k of debt to make 150-200k is a terrible ROI. And more and more dental grads are doing 1 year general dentistry residencies to refine their hand skills. Now that is just the income part that is bad. Theres also the saturation issue due to the schools opening up more and more. Like I said before, new dentists aren't jumping at the bit to buy practices because they already have high amounts of loans. So these dentists that are ready to retire, who were banking on selling their practices to contribute to the retirement fund now aren't retiring. So more and more dentists are graduating while less and less are retiring. Dental salaries are also steadily decreasing. They've slowly gone down the past 10 years. Theres also been tons of studies to show that the public is becoming less and less concerned with going to the dentist. And these studies show that if money is tight, the dentist is the first thing to eliminate as an expense. This was apparent in 2008 during the recession when tons of dentists had to just close up their practices and leave because they had no money.

So trust me, dental is not the smart choice haha. I think if dental students can keep their debts to 300k then it is a smart choice, but once they start going up to 400-500k then it just doesn't make sense financially. Basically there are many trends for dentistry that do not look good and it is what made me take a hard look and switch haha. I was all gun-ho about dentistry and even took the DAT. But more and more shadowing, working in the field, and spending a disgusting amount of hours reading articles and studies and talking to dentists showed me that its not the right path for me.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Pod school does seem to be in A better as far as debt to income ratio goes, for all professional schools save public MD schools. Most schools will set you back 300k, and as a pod making 150k, that isn't too bad of an investment.

As someone who was pre-dental for a while, dentistry is NOT the smart option haha. More and more schools are opening up, and with everyone hearing that "medicine is terrible right now with insurance" everyone is switching to dentistry. This is creating a HUGE supply of dental applicants, which is creating more schools, who keep raising their tuition prices. Midwestern's tuition ONLY is 71k.... That is just tuition. Because dental students do their "clinical years" at the school, they pay fees up the wazoo. It is not uncommon for dental grads to graduate with 500k in debt!!! And you may think "big deal, practice owners make 300k." Trends are changing a tonnnn for dentistry. As more and more students graduate with really high debts (the average debt has almost double in the past 10 years) less are able to take on even more debt to buy a practice. So they are falling into dental corporations and basically working as employees for dental "mills." They do this to minimize their school debts in hopes to eventually buy a practice. These dental grads at corporations are making 150k average. I don't know about you but 400-500k of debt to make 150-200k is a terrible ROI. And more and more dental grads are doing 1 year general dentistry residencies to refine their hand skills. Now that is just the income part that is bad. Theres also the saturation issue due to the schools opening up more and more. Like I said before, new dentists aren't jumping at the bit to buy practices because they already have high amounts of loans. So these dentists that are ready to retire, who were banking on selling their practices to contribute to the retirement fund now aren't retiring. So more and more dentists are graduating while less and less are retiring. Dental salaries are also steadily decreasing. They've slowly gone down the past 10 years. Theres also been tons of studies to show that the public is becoming less and less concerned with going to the dentist. And these studies show that if money is tight, the dentist is the first thing to eliminate as an expense. This was apparent in 2008 during the recession when tons of dentists had to just close up their practices and leave because they had no money.

So trust me, dental is not the smart choice haha. I think if dental students can keep their debts to 300k then it is a smart choice, but once they start going up to 400-500k then it just doesn't make sense financially. Basically there are many trends for dentistry that do not look good and it is what made me take a hard look and switch haha. I was all gun-ho about dentistry and even took the DAT. But more and more shadowing, working in the field, and spending a disgusting amount of hours reading articles and studies and talking to dentists showed me that its not the right path for me.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Pod school does seem to be in A better as far as debt to income ratio goes, for all professional schools save public MD schools. Most schools will set you back 300k, and as a pod making 150k, that isn't too bad of an investment.

Agreed. Pods debt to income ratio and also factoring in the autonomy is 2nd to none in my opinion

 

[DexterMorganSK]

As someone who was pre-dental for a while, dentistry is NOT the smart option haha. More and more schools are opening up, and with everyone hearing that "medicine is terrible right now with insurance" everyone is switching to dentistry. This is creating a HUGE supply of dental applicants, which is creating more schools, who keep raising their tuition prices. Midwestern's tuition ONLY is 71k.... That is just tuition. Because dental students do their "clinical years" at the school, they pay fees up the wazoo. It is not uncommon for dental grads to graduate with 500k in debt!!! And you may think "big deal, practice owners make 300k." Trends are changing a tonnnn for dentistry. As more and more students graduate with really high debts (the average debt has almost double in the past 10 years) less are able to take on even more debt to buy a practice. So they are falling into dental corporations and basically working as employees for dental "mills." They do this to minimize their school debts in hopes to eventually buy a practice. These dental grads at corporations are making 150k average. I don't know about you but 400-500k of debt to make 150-200k is a terrible ROI. And more and more dental grads are doing 1 year general dentistry residencies to refine their hand skills. Now that is just the income part that is bad. Theres also the saturation issue due to the schools opening up more and more. Like I said before, new dentists aren't jumping at the bit to buy practices because they already have high amounts of loans. So these dentists that are ready to retire, who were banking on selling their practices to contribute to the retirement fund now aren't retiring. So more and more dentists are graduating while less and less are retiring. Dental salaries are also steadily decreasing. They've slowly gone down the past 10 years. Theres also been tons of studies to show that the public is becoming less and less concerned with going to the dentist. And these studies show that if money is tight, the dentist is the first thing to eliminate as an expense. This was apparent in 2008 during the recession when tons of dentists had to just close up their practices and leave because they had no money.

So trust me, dental is not the smart choice haha. I think if dental students can keep their debts to 300k then it is a smart choice, but once they start going up to 400-500k then it just doesn't make sense financially. Basically there are many trends for dentistry that do not look good and it is what made me take a hard look and switch haha. I was all gun-ho about dentistry and even took the DAT. But more and more shadowing, working in the field, and spending a disgusting amount of hours reading articles and studies and talking to dentists showed me that its not the right path for me.

Yeah, I actually never considered going for dentistry because the mouth is another game which I do not want get involved it. I personally feel that whatever a dentist does cause pain lol, and then I saw the debt the students are in NY at the State schools (close to 400K ). That's just insane!

 

[dr.phoot]

Folks, I'm just being curious here but if y'all left the pursuit of medicine altogether, what alternative careers did you have in mind?

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Folks, I'm just being curious here but if y'all left the pursuit of medicine altogether, what alternative careers did you have in mind?

Ive thought about this. My dad does information technology for American Express. He only got his masters, didn't ever have school loans to pay off, works from home right about 40 hours a week, makes about 125-150k, has great benefits, has weekends and holidays off and just has a really great lifestyle. Legit, he works most days in his pajamas or just workout clothes. And while he's working in his office he just has ESPN going on the TV or some game on. Sometimes I look back and wonder if I should've pursued a route like this haha

 

[Podstar]

Folks, I'm just being curious here but if y'all left the pursuit of medicine altogether, what alternative careers did you have in mind?

I turned down a pretty generous big pharma position (scientific research side) to pursue medicine, so probably that.

 

[dr.phoot]

Ive thought about this. My dad does information technology for American Express. He only got his masters, didn't ever have school loans to pay off, works from home right about 40 hours a week, makes about 125-150k, has great benefits, has weekends and holidays off and just has a really great lifestyle. Legit, he works most days in his pajamas or just workout clothes. And while he's working in his office he just has ESPN going on the TV or some game on. Sometimes I look back and wonder if I should've pursued a route like this haha

Nice. Funny thing, you're staring at similar income for pod except you'll have more years of school and more debt. I think the tech sector is currently doing well in terms of opportunity. My only thing with that is having my job shipped overseas.

There's just a prestige you get with medicine and the DPM title that you don't get in IT

I turned down a pretty generous big pharma position (scientific research side) to pursue medicine, so probably that.

Nice. I did an internship in a lab last summer and I don't think I could handle a job like that. My best and favorite job so far has been in administration doing office work. That's my plan B now. I'll love to get an MBA or even a PhD and just land a suit-and-tie office job as an analyst bringing in 6 figs for an upper-middle class life.

Job security, prestige, and good pay are the reasons why medical professions appeal to me. I wouldn't call it my passion by any means

 

[Weirdy]

Folks, I'm just being curious here but if y'all left the pursuit of medicine altogether, what alternative careers did you have in mind?

Wanted to design and build race cars. Le Mans, GT2, GT3 classes.

Looking back I should've gone that route and just gotten all my health pre-reqs in. Better than a Bio degree.

Hindsight though.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Bio degrees are literally worthless.

Wanted to design and build race cars. Le Mans, GT2, GT3 classes.

Looking back I should've gone that route and just gotten all my health pre-reqs in. Better than a Bio degree.

Hindsight though.

 

[Weirdy]

Bio degrees are literally worthless.

Amen brutha.

If there's one good skill I've taken away from it, its how to look past the BS and summarize/memorize effectively.

And even then I don't think I've gotten where I need to be with that.

 

[Nowehjose]

Amen brutha.

If there's one good skill I've taken away from it, its how to look past the BS and summarize/memorize effectively.

And even then I don't think I've gotten where I need to be with that.

I've walked out of several interviews when they say 15$/hr. I told the lady I make more as a waiter. So, for the summer I'm making 20$/hr working for a party rental guy and a restaurant. If I could do it again I would join the electrician union.

 

[GypsyHummus]

20/hour? Are u in California or New York? The best I could find was 10/hour with a worthless college degree

I've walked out of several interviews when they say 15$/hr. I told the lady I make more as a waiter. So, for the summer I'm making 20$/hr working for a party rental guy and a restaurant. If I could do it again I would join the electrician union.

 

[Podstar]

Bio degrees are literally worthless.

This. I wish I would have gotten an accounting or finance degree and just taken the pre-reqs.

 

[GypsyHummus]

This. I wish I would have gotten an accounting or finance degree and just taken the pre-reqs.

Accounting, engineering, and nursing are the only worthwhile degrees I can think of. Maybe something in IT if it's hardcore enough.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Not to mention those fields are just excellent knowledge to have.. i really regret not getting an accounting or IT degree. Those would help with the stuff they dont teach you in pod school