My Jerry Maguire Moment: ADEA and ADDSAS are a FOR PROFIT Monopoly

Discussion in 'Dental' started by clowntoaster, Aug 10, 2015.

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How many people feel the ADEA ADDSAS application process needs to be fixed?

  1. Yes

    12 vote(s)
    75.0%
  2. No

    1 vote(s)
    6.3%
  3. I'm afraid some secretary will toss my application for telling the truth

    3 vote(s)
    18.8%
  1. clowntoaster

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    As we fill out the primary applications and pay the exorbitant fees we are told that it will take 4-6 weeks to get our GPA verified, and our transcripts updated, etc, etc. This is substandard service for 100 dollars per application. Why am I paying you $100 when I am doing the DATA entry and typing out my transcripts?

    Why do I need to check the portal every day hoping that someone will mail my applications out.
    4 weeks have passed and it still says "Not Sent."

    The ADEA claims to be a non profit. All non profits have to make their financials public. See attached financial document from 2014 showing the salaries and income that ADEA made. Yes, $23,000,000. Yes thats 23 MILLION. ADEA has made over 100,000,000. Yes one hundred million in last 5 years!

    Look how much the CEO
    RICHARD W VALACHOVIC DMD MPH makes. Yes he earns over $530,000 a year off of your application fees! Why practice dentistry when you can have a monopoly and rip off aspiring dentists!

    ABIGAIL W GORMAN MBA made $266,000 a year. The list goes on. Feel free to look at the PDF.

    I am typing this out so that Mr. Valachovic will have some class and take OUR $23,000,000 and improve the Dental School Application System. By the way, they also get federal grants... so our tax dolls are lining their pockets too.

    $17,000,000 off of application fees in 2014. sees the attached PDF for your crying pleasure.

    There should not be secondaries asking the same questions provided in the primary. That is waste of time for everyone involved. There should not be a 4-6 week delay for any verification. Take that $23,000,000 and hire more people. SIMPLE! Use the ADEA for what it was intended. Mrs. Abigail, please become a Liaison between dental schools so the prerequisites for all the schools are the same, the letters of recommendations (3 science, one committee, etc, is all the same). People have jobs, kids, and are doing volunteering all to get into dental school. Make the processes simpler. Introduce a practical exam, chalk carving, something. Do you know how many first year dental students drop out because they hate the idea of working with their hands, or touching people, or have the dexterity of my 90 year old grandma! The DAT is the single worst predicator of dental school prediction. (but that's a whole another rant).

    Why don't you have a REAL SURVEY at the conclusion of the website and take our feedback to improve the system? Why is there not a text alert system? Surely with $23,000,000 you can make a better dental school application portal that sends text alerts so working students do not need to log in every day.

    THE ADEA has created a monopoly that does not act nor serve as a non profit. It is a FOR PROFIT company looting students.
    If you want more info you can send me a secondary application with your blood results and a cashier's check for $85.00 (come on who asks for a cashier's check anymore... Damn Pittsburg University still does!) what a joke.
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. dmdluffy

    dmdluffy YOSH!!~
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    ADEA derives income from other areas besides application fees. Said fees are likely to be a small portion of what ADEA raises for it's annual budget. It's also important to note that ADEA has expenditures including multiple meetings per year, hosting the virtual pre-dental fair, staffing, rent on it's central offices, publication of it's journal, etc. While I agree with you AADSAS (and PASS) are substandard and stupid and way too expensive, ADEA is an okay association.

    Now, if you want to channel your hatred towards regional board testing, I can get behind that!
     
  3. tooth knockn

    tooth knockn Treat others how you want to be treated
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    15k applicants a year
    5 schools average
    300 + 400
    700x15k= 10.5Million$
    A conservative estimate




    Plus other areas of income


    And they just added a $100 service for applicants to choose the option for AADSAS to input the academic history data....

    Money hungry animals.... Who cares about the up and coming right? Who cares if the current applicants have the largest amount of student debt in American history?!

    Greed
     
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  4. clowntoaster

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    NO NEED TO ESTIMATE: look at the actual Tax document they filed in 2014 for the 2013 tax year. 17,000,000 in application fees.
     
  5. oralcare123

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    UCLA secondary killed me totally - why can't they make it easier to insert a picture and a resume. ADEA is wonderful too. All LORs have to be sent by email - don't they know international dentists come from stone age countries :) BTW I payed $340 to apply to two universities
     
  6. StumpMT

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    There should definitely be a link to upload a 2x2 color photo and a resume on AADSAS. Roseman's secondary was almost comical: name, aadsas#, and dentpin on a 3x5 note card. Really? A note card? But I digress.

    Yes dmdluffy ADEA derives income from other places besides application fees. The problem is that 17 million out of 23 million in 2014 is only from application fees. 74% of their income is from application fees. That's just absurd.
     
  7. Scumbag_Steve

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    To suggest that the DAT should be replaced because it isn't a predictor of dental school success is just wrong. True, chalk carving could maybe help (low) attrition rates, but while I'm just speculating I'm willing to bet an equal, if not greater number of students drop out of dental school because they can't take the didactic portion (what the DAT attempts to screen for) compared to the number that drop out due to lack of dexterity. Adding a dexterity component in addition to the DAT sure, replace DAT? No.
     
  8. Scumbag_Steve

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    But yeah I agree the rest is pretty exorbitant in my opinion.
     
  9. tooth knockn

    tooth knockn Treat others how you want to be treated
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    All right guys...

    What's the plan?

    How will we make our mark and stand up to those easy money hungry AADSAS Adea people who fiend over new applicants?


    Let's do this....



     
  10. dmdluffy

    dmdluffy YOSH!!~
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  11. oralcare123

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    Dental school suppose to teach hand skills, there is no point to test for it
     
  12. Scumbag_Steve

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    Lol I mostly agree with you I was more trying to slightly concede a point to the OP so I sounded like less of a jerk. Definitely much less of a point to test for hand skills than ability to learn the basic science curriculum.
     
  13. oralcare123

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    All they need to do is confirm the presence of both hands
     
  14. doc toothache

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    Graduates expect to get 500K right out of school. Dr. V probably gets the extra 30K because he works more than 2.5 days a week.
     
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  15. Daneosaurus

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    ImageUploadedBySDN Mobile1439509151.607898.jpg
     
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  16. Greyangel6

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    The time it took for you to think about, research this topic, and write it up = time you can think about how you can get some more dough to pay for all this stuff (primary, secondary fees, flight tickets, hotel stays, even dental school tuition, moving-in budget, etc.).

    IMHO, just like any big organizations/systems, ADEA and the AADSAS can have its low moments. I think I'd be better off accepting and working with those limitations and just prepare better.

    If you hate it so much, why not do something about it? Go become someone who can make those changes you want, and make a career path out of it along the way.

    Or if you are just here to vent, then ignore me coz you're already thinking you're the only one suffering the most, I wouldn't dare bring more baggage.
     
  17. setdoc7

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    Why doesn't someone start their own application reporting service? ADEA and AADSAS are not government agencies. I doubt there is any protection of this service. A cheaper, more streamlined server with which is more user friendly might be welcomed. One of the major issues with dentistry is the slow pace in which change and improvement are accepted, especially in dental education. Just my $0.02.
     
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  18. clowntoaster

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    Like most monopolies it is very hard to break in without money and influential power. I don't know about the Texas application system but clearly they do it different, and outside of AssAss 2016.

    If you have money, and wine and dine the top 10 school deans UCLA, UCSF, Harvard, Penn, Tufts, etc...(I'm making those up) After wine and dinning those people and showing them how a better system would bring better applicants to their schools... then you have something. An effort like that takes money, power, and influence. The CEO of ADEA and ASS ASS (sorry that's just my name for them) ... The CEO is more connected in the dental world then anyone. Like any dictator or monopoly king, he hoards his power. The slightest threat is bought up (you come up with an idea and they will implement it)

    Look at most tech start ups, they are quickly bought up by Microsoft, google, Facebook, etc... No competition is a good for the fatties.
     
  19. doc toothache

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    Starting a new application service is like throwing a party where no one shows up.
     
  20. Hammer Time

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    Unless it could show automatically that it was credible, and was significantly cheaper.. I feel like it could catch on in a few years, and could dramatically decrease costs due to competition in the market.
     
  21. doc toothache

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    There is a failure to understand that the only unhappy campers are a few (many) applicants. If dental schools do not like the service they are receiving from AADSAS they could certainly do it themselves, just as it had been done in the past. Check on the makeup of ADEA. From a school's perspective, the application is relatively inexpensive. It is the applicant's choice to apply to all the schools in the country.
     
    #21 doc toothache, Aug 22, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  22. doc toothache

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  23. Hammer Time

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    Are you trying to say a few or many? If you're saying a few then you're surely mistaken.. Based on what the OP says, and the poll at the beginning, there are a ton of dissatisfied applicants. It is recommended that applicants apply broadly, most students apply to around 10 schools. That means we're talking around 1,500 dollars just to apply to schools.
     
    #23 Hammer Time, Aug 22, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2015
  24. doc toothache

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    You were given a choice for both scenarios: few and many. The poll you allude to is about as useful as a match during a typhoon. It is not clear what system of measurement you are using in which a dozen participants in the poll amount to a "ton". There are always going to be disgruntled applicants. Some apparently feel that the $100 application fee entitles them to breakfast in bed. Even if there was no application fee, we are likely to find those who believe that the service is for the birds and, if AADSAS offered $50 for each application submitted, there would be some who would suggest that it insufficient for the amount of time spent to fill out the application/application process. In the grand scheme of cost to become a dentist, the $1500.00 is mere petty cash.
     
  25. Hammer Time

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    You think I made my assumptions based on the poll of this thread? :lol:

    And no, 1,500 is never petty cash. It's a lot. I don't care if you are already getting into hundreds of thousands in debt. That's no justification for ripping of students further. Then tack on the price to interview (plane tickets, hotels)... It's all pretty messed up.
     
  26. doc toothache

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    Is your application to ds a shotgun wedding?
     
  27. A Pre-dent

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    .
     
    #27 A Pre-dent, Aug 24, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
  28. Scumbag_Steve

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    I agree with Hammertime that $1,500 is not an insignificant amount of money to anybody, even a dentist. To suggest that it's "just $1,500" is insulting to most people in the country and across the world. However, DocToothache is right in that it's our choice to apply, and while there probably is a more cost effective way of doing it, we kind of have to live with our choice.
     
  29. doc toothache

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    Looks like we have some RC issues.
     
  30. Scumbag_Steve

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    My apologies. Out of reverence for you doc toothache, I want to thank you for everything you do for everyone on this site. Sorry I rushed through the posts and misquoted you.
     
  31. clowntoaster

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    Yes, it is a CHOICE. But having more choices is what I'm here talking about. If I buy every gas station in your town and jack up the price to 20 dollars a gallon I could just say it is your choice to drive, it is your choice to shop at my gas station... but I would be monopolizing the market and we have laws to protect us from things like that. We live in a regulated economy and it is not open and free determined by supply and demand as people think. There are a TON of rules and regulations. I just think that it is a SCAM that nearly every school asks for a Secondary Fee, regardless of whether you meet their criteria. They are flat out saying, we don't care about the primary application or fee. Pay us more money to look at both applications. That is a SCAM. I'm even sure we would pay more to just do ONE application! right?

    There are some 50 plus schools for a country over hundreds of millions? We need more choices in dental schools as well.
     
  32. clowntoaster

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    Its not 1,500. Nearly all the schools strategically do the interviews at the same time and give the first acceptance results in December. There is a reason for that. How much do plane tickets cost, hotels costs. We are all going to travel a day before to out of state schools, correct? Going to rent a car? Average cost of plane ticket 300 dollars, hotel: 125, food, 50. Thats nearly 500 dollars for each out of state school you apply to. Of course you can cut costs but be real. 1,500 dollars means you applied to around 15 schools? So you need to add another 100 dollars to cover the secondary schools. How about the opportunity cost of the HOURS spent on doing secondary applications? Heaven forbid you don't get in... you don't find out you didn't get in until late into 2016. You can't apply for 2017 without showing "what have you done since you last application." What have I done? I did secondaries!
     
  33. AlbinoPolarBear

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    Gotta pay to play.
     
  34. doc toothache

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    You first had an ax to grind with ADEA/AADSAS. You then moved to dental schools. If (with your attitude, likely to be a big if) you get accepted you are likely to be dissatisfied with the cost/selection of instruments used by the school, the faculty, the clinics, your classmates. Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
     
    #34 doc toothache, Aug 30, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2015
  35. clowntoaster

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    I will be fine in school and with my peers. Complaining about a system on a anonymous forum is much different then saying these things to professors or during my interview. I'm very much in tune with what the over inflated egos in higher education want to here. I will be very satisfied when I'm in a school. I'm just educating people that the system could be better and that there is **** ton of money involved and it is truly unethical take an entire generation of undergraduates who have amassed more debt then their parents to continue to pay more money in order to earn an above average wage (that of a dentist).
     
  36. clowntoaster

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    Best reply yet. No doubt you are correct. I just want to educate the lemmings and sheep out there that our generation is being taken advantage of by those in power.
     

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