My observation about med students vs PA/ NP students

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Since this forum (rightly) has so many threads dealing with the encroachment of midlevels, I thought I'd bring up something I've been noticing and see if other people have noticed the same thing, or if my observations are simply unique to my institution.

I am a resident at an institution affiliated with a medical school and an NP school, and which also has PA students from 2 places rotating through. Of course we also have plenty of medical students from other schools doing "audition rotations" as well. What I've noticed is that a good percentage of medical students these days are non-traditional - it's pretty common to have someone in their 30's or 40's rotating with us. In fact I was a non-traditional student myself, and did not feel at all out of place at my school where there were several other people my age.

On the other hand I don't think I've met a PA student over the age of 27 or 28, or an NP student over about 30. Seriously, they are all young kids who either went straight from undergrad to PA school, or from BSN to NP school after maybe 1-2 years working as an RN (if that). I initially mistook the PA student rotating with me last week for one of our high school shadowers.

The thing is, it seems to me that PA and NP programs were originally designed as bridges for non-traditional folks with years and years of healthcare experience, who could then build upon that considerable experience with some extra book-knowledge and function as highly competent assistant clinicians. The older PA's and NP's I know are folks who worked for 20 years as paramedics or nurses and then went on to pursue some more education. The current crops of PA's and NP's that I'm watching graduate seem to be people who often have little to no healthcare experience prior to their programs, which in my thinking would be in direct contradiction to what the point of these programs were in the first place. Ironically, the non-traditional folks seem more inclined to actually go to medical school than to take the shorter route to becoming a PA or NP.

Anyone else seeing this, or is this just my N=1 experience? Also, has anyone else noticed the quality of midlevels changing as they get younger and younger and come into school with less and less experience? I think these are important questions to ask and important things to consider in an era in which midlevel scope seems to be expanding so much.

Will be interested to hear your thoughts....

I thought most PA programs require significant prior clinical experience before starting. Has that changed?
 
I think originally that was the premise, but I now see the majority of people I know just jumping in directly. Obviously, this is anecdotal and based on how many of my friends that went this path and are planning it this way.
 
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I think originally that was the premise, but I now see the majority of people I know just jumping in directly. Obviously, this is anecdotal and based on how many of my friends that went this path and are planning it this way.

There is a "report feature" at the bottom of vitals that I am currently in the process of using to suggest that they remove the MD from the names of nurse practitioners.

Update: reported to vitals. will see what kind of response I get.
 
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I thought most PA programs require significant prior clinical experience before starting. Has that changed?
My friend is applying to PA school and she says programs require anywhere from 200-2000 hours of experience. Nonetheless, she is going to attend PA school right after undergrad. She's just had to work that experience in through summer jobs and internships, as opposed to those hours coming from working in the field for 10 years that perhaps might be the intention.
 
I think it might depend what PA program you look at. My school has a new PA program and there are definitely many non-traditional (and extremely impressive) students that are in it. They have class from 9-5 (as opposed to MD students only until noon) and I have no doubt that they work as hard if not harder than us. They just have a somewhat abbreviated curriculum and a ton more class time to get it in within two years.
 
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I think it might depend what PA program you look at. My school has a new PA program and there are definitely many non-traditional (and extremely impressive) students that are in it. They have class from 9-5 (as opposed to MD students only until noon) and I have no doubt that they work as hard if not harder than us. They just have a somewhat abbreviated curriculum and a ton more class time to get it in within two years.

I doubt they work harder. Having more hours of class doesn't mean you are covering more material or that you are learning more or working harder. It just means that you spend more time with a less efficient method. We ran through all the relevant material from undergrad bio in about two weeks
 
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I doubt they work harder. Having more hours of class doesn't mean you are covering more material or that you are learning more or working harder. It just means that you spend more time with a less efficient method. We ran through all the relevant material from undergrad bio in about two weeks
I'm not a PA student so I can't really say whether the material itself is easier or harder. All I can say is what I have observed from working directly with them. They consistently look more tired, and most of them have very impressive backgrounds and would have had no trouble getting into a good MD/DO school (both in the social "i worked 5/10 years in xyz industry before coming here, I have two kids, etc" and in the academic "3.8GPA and research in undergrad" sense). It's just a different path to go in life and they are all but guaranteed a decently high paying job two years from now.
 
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So what is the purpose of this thread other than to bash mid levels?

Don't get me wrong, I'm as loud of a voice against the encroachment of mid levels, especially nurse practitioners, as anyone. But I don't think we do ourselves any favorswhen we start threads which rehash the same old information and thoughts about their lack of training and education.

We would do more for ourselves if we educate the public instead of looking like a whiny little bitches about it.
 
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I think it might depend what PA program you look at. My school has a new PA program and there are definitely many non-traditional (and extremely impressive) students that are in it. They have class from 9-5 (as opposed to MD students only until noon) and I have no doubt that they work as hard if not harder than us. They just have a somewhat abbreviated curriculum and a ton more class time to get it in within two years.
We've technically got class 8-5 most days at my school, but lecture is optional, so in practice, few people attend all activities. We're viewed as considered strong enough learners to do what we need to do at our own direction, while PA programs are more structured.
 
PA is legit, NP is a joke!
 
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The deed is done. I feel like a snitch...
 
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Will you have to do that now for every CRNP? I mean it's silly that any CRNP has MD after his/her name...

Haha I'm definitely not going to go through the process of doing it for everyone. It was just an example that should you see a mishap like that that it's easy to report it!
 
I think it might depend what PA program you look at. My school has a new PA program and there are definitely many non-traditional (and extremely impressive) students that are in it. They have class from 9-5 (as opposed to MD students only until noon) and I have no doubt that they work as hard if not harder than us. They just have a somewhat abbreviated curriculum and a ton more class time to get it in within two years.
'
yes its only "somewhat" abbreviated.

They just jam pack everything you learn M1-M4 into two years, so if you think about it, it is for more elite students.

Lol give me a break.
 
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