My personal take on MD vs. DO

[Creightonite]

I tried to apply to MD schools and for the second year no luck. I ended up with a not so good spot in the waitlist the second time around. Anyhow, I am planning to reapply next year for the 3rd time. Instead of trying to make a hole in the conrete with my head, I am trying an alternative way to becoming a doctor.

There are many factors that keeping me from MD schools, some of them fixable and some of them not. Mostly grades are the reason. Mmy Aocomas GPA would be better because of a couple classes I have retaken. I am working to improve my MCAT scores as well. Anyhow, regardless of these factors...

After reading a post by a DO ophthalmo surgeon on SDN front page, I thought that difference between DO and MD is not that great after all. DOs can still do the same surgeries as MDs do and do not use needle puncture when a patient who needs a kataracta surgery. I prefer classic medicine over non-traditional. I think DO are in advantage because they can practice traditional and non-traditional medicine, depending on their personal choice. Am I correct? Can a person who received a DO degree morph into an MD-kind of person? How good are DO residencies? I am primarily interested in surgery though.

I have to admit that i would not have gone DO route if I were accepted into an MD program. But at this point, I am seriously considering DO schools when reapplying this summer.

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[Pansit]

I tried to apply to MD schools and for the second year no luck. I ended up with a not so good spot in the waitlist the second time around. Anyhow, I am planning to reapply next year for the 3rd time. Instead of trying to make a hole in the conrete with my head, I am trying an alternative way to becoming a doctor.

There are many factors that keeping me from MD schools, some of them fixable and some of them not. Mostly grades are the reason. Mmy Aocomas GPA would be better because of a couple classes I have retaken. I am working to improve my MCAT scores as well. Anyhow, regardless of these factors...

After reading a post by a DO ophthalmo surgeon on SDN front page, I thought that difference between DO and MD is not that great after all. DOs can still do the same surgeries as MDs do and do not use needle puncture when a patient who needs a kataracta surgery. I prefer classic medicine over non-traditional. I think DO are in advantage because they can practice traditional and non-traditional medicine, depending on their personal choice. Am I correct? Can a person who received a DO degree morph into an MD-kind of person? How good are DO residencies? I am primarily interested in surgery though.

I have to admit that i would not have gone DO route if I were accepted into an MD program. But at this point, I am seriously considering DO schools when reapplying this summer.

There is absolutely no reason why someone in your position would not apply DO...if you don't know, half that is 50% of DO's end up in ACGME residencies (that is "MD" residencies), so if you dont get into an MD school, you have a pretty good chance of being at an MD residency (if it were your first choice, and of course dependent on specialty). And I will tell you this right now...if you are a top notch DO student and you want surgery, you will get surgery (same with MD's). Both paths will lead to you to being a physician..you think these guys care if they are MD's or DO's:

http://www.michiganspinesurgeons.com/pages/surgeon.php

 

[dr.kicia]

I tried to apply to MD schools and for the second year no luck. I ended up with a not so good spot in the waitlist the second time around. Anyhow, I am planning to reapply next year for the 3rd time. Instead of trying to make a hole in the conrete with my head, I am trying an alternative way to becoming a doctor.

There are many factors that keeping me from MD schools, some of them fixable and some of them not. Mostly grades are the reason. Mmy Aocomas GPA would be better because of a couple classes I have retaken. I am working to improve my MCAT scores as well. Anyhow, regardless of these factors...

After reading a post by a DO ophthalmo surgeon on SDN front page, I thought that difference between DO and MD is not that great after all. DOs can still do the same surgeries as MDs do and do not use needle puncture when a patient who needs a kataracta surgery. I prefer classic medicine over non-traditional. I think DO are in advantage because they can practice traditional and non-traditional medicine, depending on their personal choice. Am I correct? Can a person who received a DO degree morph into an MD-kind of person? How good are DO residencies? I am primarily interested in surgery though.

I have to admit that i would not have gone DO route if I were accepted into an MD program. But at this point, I am seriously considering DO schools when reapplying this summer.

if you want to apply DO i would start asap on getting a DO to shadow. This for sure will:
-give you some perspective on how a DO differes from an MD
-show you that being a DO you can use those extra skills to your patient's advantage (OMM).
-show you that you can be as successfull as you would be as an MD (I shadowed a top cardiologist/electrophysiologist in state who happens to be a DO and a professor in the top med school and research hospital...he also does extensive research on the devices and is an expert in infected devices)
-you will see a difference in the bed side ethics that DOs possess and which is valued by patients.

you can also go on line and check DOs in your area, or any major hospital's web to see what residencies they finished etc. You will be surprized.

And finally...why people always worry about the type of residency they will have? Are you in here really for the right reasons? Or is your biggest concern a certain lifestyle/money/prestige?
Chances are that you may like something totally different once in med school. Every other pre-med tends to want to do surgery but how many of them acctually end up in that residency?

On the side note...your residency depends only on how hard you are willing to work. Even Caribbean schools grads get competetive spots if they are willing to work hard...Saba for instance last year had 2 students get into neurosurgery. So first get into med school and then work your way to the residency...baby steps

 

[Animus]

And finally...why people always worry about the type of residency they will have? Are you in here really for the right reasons? Or is your biggest concern a certain lifestyle/money/prestige?
Chances are that you may like something totally different once in med school. Every other pre-med tends to want to do surgery but how many of them acctually end up in that residency?

I see what you are trying to say here, but I could care less about lifestyle/money/prestige and I do very much care about which residency I place in. I want to be able to go into a residency that I know I will love doing no matter what field of medicine it is, and considering residency is essentially what you will be doing for the rest of your life it is pretty important.

 

[Taty]

I see what you are trying to say here, but I could care less about lifestyle/money/prestige and I do very much care about which residency I place in. I want to be able to go into a residency that I know I will love doing no matter what field of medicine it is, and considering residency is essentially what you will be doing for the rest of your life it is pretty important.

I think as a DO you can get any residency if you work really hard.

 

[GreenShirt]

I see what you are trying to say here, but I could care less about lifestyle/money/prestige and I do very much care about which residency I place in. I want to be able to go into a residency that I know I will love doing no matter what field of medicine it is, and considering residency is essentially what you will be doing for the rest of your life it is pretty important.

I think what Dr. Kicia is saying is that worrying about getting a "good" residency when you haven't been able to attain/or have not yet attained acceptance into a medical school is like putting the carriage before the horse. For one, your choice of residency will change many times when you are in med school b/c you will be exposed to many sides of medicine and your idea of what a "good lifestyle" is will change. Second, if you're not competitive enough to get into med school the first or second time, it's unlikely you will be competitve enough for the most prestigious residencies. It could happen, but having a shot at any residencies should be your primary concern for now.

 

[voltron77]

I see what you are trying to say here, but I could care less about lifestyle/money/prestige and I do very much care about which residency I place in. I want to be able to go into a residency that I know I will love doing no matter what field of medicine it is, and considering residency is essentially what you will be doing for the rest of your life it is pretty important.

I agree with Dr. Kicia....get some perspective right now Animus and first off, get into medical school first and once you accomplish that, then work hard and worry about residency then.....You'll have a different perspective once you get to med school.

 

[MaximusD]

I prefer classic medicine over non-traditional. I think DO are in advantage because they can practice traditional and non-traditional medicine, depending on their personal choice. Am I correct?

No. DO's do not use "alternative medicine". OMM is a widely-accepted modality and is not in the same realm as homeopathy, naturopathy, or accupuncture.

For the most part (in 99% of cases) DOs practice exactly the same as MDs.

Go do some research and shadow a physician before you ask more stupid questions.

 

[Animus]

I think as a DO you can get any residency if you work really hard.

I agree, but it is still worth considering on picking a school. I mean if you see through matches that your school as almost no (insert specialty or whatever field here) then I think it would be wise to be hesitant (if you can see yourself in that field). Not saying you cannot be the first but I think I have learned from this forum that a lot of it is about who knows you and your school.

PS-I am already accepted into med school, the point I was initially trying to make was that I think residency should be a part of your choice for picking a med school at least from the standpoint of what I said above.

 

[voltron77]

I agree, but it is still worth considering on picking a school. I mean if you see through matches that your school as almost no (insert specialty or whatever field here) then I think it would be wise to be hesitant (if you can see yourself in that field). Not saying you cannot be the first but I think I have learned from this forum that a lot of it is about who knows you and your school.

PS-I am already accepted into med school, the point I was initially trying to make was that I think residency should be a part of your choice for picking a med school at least from the standpoint of what I said above.

To increase your chances of getting into a particular residency program, you may be able to do a summer clinical and/or research program and possibly a fourth year clerkship/rotation at that instiution/program. You can always be the first one from your school and though it is important who you know, you have to have the goods as well in order to be competitive for that place. You can go to Harvard but if your grades, scores and/or recommendations suck, you can't depend on the name recognition to get you in.

 

[Animus]

To increase your chances of getting into a particular residency program, you may be able to do a summer clinical and/or research program and possibly a fourth year clerkship/rotation at that instiution/program. You can always be the first one from your school and though it is important who you know, you have to have the goods as well in order to be competitive for that place. You can go to Harvard but if your grades, scores and/or recommendations suck, you can't depend on the name recognition to get you in.

I already admitted to everything you had said, all my initial point was is I do not think it is out of the question to consider residency as a part of choosing your school...

 

[Taty]

I agree, but it is still worth considering on picking a school. I mean if you see through matches that your school as almost no (insert specialty or whatever field here) then I think it would be wise to be hesitant (if you can see yourself in that field). Not saying you cannot be the first but I think I have learned from this forum that a lot of it is about who knows you and your school.

PS-I am already accepted into med school, the point I was initially trying to make was that I think residency should be a part of your choice for picking a med school at least from the standpoint of what I said above.

Location and " I felt like home" feeling played a major role for me when I made a decision to attend NYCOM. Personally, I think that even if one comes from the "big name" school,but has sucky boards and grades "big name" will not help to get a residency of one's choice.

 

[voltron77]

By the way Animus, congrats on getting into med school.....that's a great accomplishment that you should be proud of.....where did you get accepted? Best of luck to you.

 

[GreenShirt]

It certainly is an important factor if you're deciding on acceptances between schools. Most schools place their graduates into the same programs year after year, so a lot depends on how familiar the program is with students from a certain school. However, the OP is asking whether he'll have good residency choices by going the DO vs. the MD route. The answer is, yes, you'll have access to any specialty, whether you can land something very competitve depends on a number of factors, school being just one.

 

[Animus]

Location and " I felt like home" feeling played a major role for me when I made a decision to attend NYCOM. Personally, I think that even if one comes from the "big name" school,but has sucky boards and grades "big name" will not help to get a residency of one's choice.

Wow I am not trying to agrue with you guys about how to get a residency here or how it is best to go about it.

As I said 5 times now, I am just trying to say it is alright to consider it as part of choosing a school. If you have two choices of school, like them both, all else being equal etc, but one has never matched someone into something you believe you could choose one day then bam!!! choose the other school.

 

[Animus]

By the way Animus, congrats on getting into med school.....that's a great accomplishment that you should be proud of.....where did you get accepted? Best of luck to you.

Haha, thanks. PCOM for me!!! Cant wait!!!

 

[Animus]

It certainly is an important factor if you're deciding on acceptances between schools. Most schools place their graduates into the same programs year after year, so a lot depends on how familiar the program is with students from a certain school. However, the OP is asking whether he'll have good residency choices by going the DO vs. the MD route. The answer is, yes, you'll have access to any specialty, whether you can land something very competitve depends on a number of factors, school being just one.

Yes I was just responding to Kricia (kind of) taking a shot at people who consider residency as an important part in this process. Not that she was really taking a shot at it but you know what I mean. I was just saying I took that into consideration when making my decision and not for the reasons she stated.

Anyway I will leave it at this. Always good to get other perspectives and I know what you guys are saying, but this 3v1 thing is hard to keep track of!! haha

 

[MaximusD]

Animus, where you living at PCOM? I chose the presidential against a few suggestions haha... how about you?

Are you on the facebook group?

 

[spicedmanna]

Can a person who received a DO degree morph into an MD-kind of person?

Um, I have to agree with MaximusD. I invite you to shadow some DO's to get a fuller and more accurate picture. You seem to have some misconceptions...

I'm not sure what you are asking with your question above, but both DO's and MD's are physicians in the US; both are licensed to practice the full scope of medicine. In a practical sense, there really isn't any difference between the two because physicians practice to a common standard of care, except that DO's receive additional training in osteopathic manipulative medicine and thus have an extra modality in which to treat and diagnose conditions. The majority of DO's don't really use it, though.

Therefore, they are different paths to the same end.

 

[Animus]

Animus, where you living at PCOM? I chose the presidential against a few suggestions haha... how about you?

Are you on the facebook group?

I think im going to live at beekman, going to visit there on Sat and the lady tells me I am gettin a prime apartment.

I am on facebook group too, I will send you a PM later with who I am. I am guessing I know who you are haha.

 

[Taus]

I think im going to live at beekman, going to visit there on Sat and the lady tells me I am gettin a prime apartment.

I am on facebook group too, I will send you a PM later with who I am. I am guessing I know who you are haha.

good choice w/ beekman...I've been here for the past 2 years and will be staying for a a third....never really had any complaints

 

[StrengthDoc]

There are many factors that keeping me from MD schools...

I prefer classic medicine over non-traditional. I think DO are in advantage because they can practice traditional and non-traditional medicine, depending on their personal choice....

First, most of those same factors will still be an issue when "going" DO. Average entrance numbers may put you in a better position, but there are more than just numbers involved.

One thing that will definitely be an issue is if you go into interviews with the complete lack of understanding of what being a DO is that the second section shows. Research, read, google is your friend.....

 

[dr.kicia]

I agree with Dr. Kicia....get some perspective right now Animus and first off, get into medical school first and once you accomplish that, then work hard and worry about residency then.....You'll have a different perspective once you get to med school.

exactly...
Besides it always amazes me how ppl worry about their residency even in high school before they even get in to college. It is kinda rediculous to me. The medicine lost its original value where you would be a doctor for the patient not a doctor for the name/residency/prestige/competition or whatnot.
If you really feel that medicine is for you your biggest concern should be to get in and excell in med school and not to think about your residency at this point. In this country you can be whoever you want to be if you get in first.
You have not even tried surgery, you have not hold a scalpel in your hand against human body, you probobly didn't even shadow a surgeon during a surgical procedure, how can you know if it is for you at this point?
Check out the 20 Q&A to a doctor here on SDN and you will see that none of these docs thought they will end up in the residencies where they are happy to practice at now...so concentrate on what is the nearest future for you....and that would be getting in...and then when you have your rotations, electives and USMLE/COMLEX scores you will have plenty of time to worry about residency.

 

[dr.kicia]

Location and " I felt like home" feeling played a major role for me when I made a decision to attend NYCOM. Personally, I think that even if one comes from the "big name" school,but has sucky boards and grades "big name" will not help to get a residency of one's choice.

i agree...the only thing that will ever hold you from getting a residency of your choice later on is YOU.

 

[MaximusD]

I think im going to live at beekman, going to visit there on Sat and the lady tells me I am gettin a prime apartment.

I am on facebook group too, I will send you a PM later with who I am. I am guessing I know who you are haha.

Wouldn't take much imagination lol

 

[Creightonite]

anyhow, then I still do not get the difference between MD and DO. Telling that "DOs treat a patient as whole, not only the disease" does not really explain anything.

BTW, how do I locate DO's? Is a DO recommendation letter really a requirement?

 

[spicedmanna]

anyhow, then I still do not get the difference between MD and DO.

In practice, there is essentially no difference. The point of difference that most people acknowledge is that DO's are trained in OMM/OMT, but the truth is that not that many practicing DO's use it. While all DO's learn OMM/OMT, keep in mind that OMM/OMT is a more appropriate modality for certain fields than others. Being trained in OMM/OMT, however, is different from using it in practice.

Telling that "DOs treat a patient as whole, not only the disease" does not really explain anything.

Yeah, I agree. All good physicians will "treat the whole patient." One of the main differences, from what I can gather, is that in osteopathic schools, this is a concept that is stated directly and integrated into the curriculum; it's an overt objective.

BTW, how do I locate DO's? Is a DO recommendation letter really a requirement?

Check the FAQ up above; there is some good info on this exact subject. Most osteopathic schools will ask for a physician recommendation; a letter from an MD can, in some cases, suffice, although a letter from a DO is preferred, but others will require a DO letter specifically. It's a good idea to check with the schools in which you intend to apply for their specific requirement for LORs. More than that, however, you should shadow a DO just so that you can appreciate osteopathic medicine and understand more about it.

 

[CommanderRiker]

anyhow, then I still do not get the difference between MD and DO. Telling that "DOs treat a patient as whole, not only the disease" does not really explain anything.

BTW, how do I locate DO's? Is a DO recommendation letter really a requirement?

I submitted a letter from an M.D. to all D.O. schools where I applied.