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[Med Ed]

OP sounds like he had slacked in one of his premed classes early on and while he’d be silly to ask for LORs without having improved his attendance issues and grades, he’s identified his problem. The premed “advisor” that’s damning him for skipping his class early in this kid’s career and is simply holding a grudge.

OP has admitted to more than slacking in a single class:

"The pre med advisor has disliked me for a long time cause when I had him I was a serious slacker in school, which is also the reason for the poor grades."

There are two sides to this story, and I'm willing to bet the advisor would paint a slightly more concerning picture of the OP's behavior than skipping a few classes. Every year I have students who get destroyed on clinical evaluations because of behavioral issues that were apparent in the pre-clinical years. When we trace it back further they were usually evident prior to admission. Premedical advisors are often judged in part by how many students are admitted to medical school. I know some are inept and others incompetent, but hats off to those who give us some unvarnished truth.

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[deleted936470]

OP has admitted to more than slacking in a single class:

"The pre med advisor has disliked me for a long time cause when I had him I was a serious slacker in school, which is also the reason for the poor grades."

There are two sides to this story, and I'm willing to bet the advisor would paint a slightly more concerning picture of the OP's behavior than skipping a few classes. Every year I have students who get destroyed on clinical evaluations because of behavioral issues that were apparent in the pre-clinical years. When we trace it back further they were usually evident prior to admission. Premedical advisors are often judged in part by how many students are admitted to medical school. I know some are inept and others incompetent, but hats off to those who give us some unvarnished truth.

I'd argue there are more than two sides, but I'm not going there. Good thing the kid seems to be 19-20 years old and not in their mid to late 20s starting rotations.

I trust OP can grow / has grown from this and doesn't deserve a absolutist, punitive advisor to gatekeep something he/she doesn't understand the true implications to.

A professor/advisor holding grudges to young students without fully developed brains is asinine to me, particularly when the student has recognized and worked on his "slacking" issue, but looks like I'm in the minority here. Rulez are rulez afterall and I suppose the claim is that good attendance and ego stroking = good behavior.

To suggest early undergraduate attendance issues confers poor attitude or behavioral problems in clinical years is illogical, but I know OP got good advice in the thread. /unfollow

 

[Med Ed]

Rulez are rulez afterall and I suppose the claim is that good attendance and ego stroking = good behavior.

Good attendance is nothing to trivialize. As the saying goes, showing up is half the battle. You may be surprised how many students casually show up late to rounds at the beginning of third year, get chewed out, and end up crying in someone's office.

To suggest early undergraduate attendance issues confers poor attitude or behavioral problems in clinical years is illogical,

There is nothing illogical about the consistency of human behavior. Not everyone with a red flag becomes a problem medical student, but virtually every problem medical student had at least one red flag that was overlooked or ignored. It's especially fun when you reread the LORs and find what you missed.

 

[Passionseeking]

Hey, I saw a lot of comments on this and I guess I didn't make myself clear. I would NEVER ask this teacher for a recommendation letter, he would be the last teacher I come to. Sadly my school has this policy that when one is applying to med school, when they get teachers to agree to write letters, all the letters have to be sent to the medical head and then HE writes the ultimate letter. So example lets say bob, dan, and kelly agreed to write letters for me, they all go to the medical head named Richard and he writes the ultimate letter. I would never ask a teacher for a good recommendation if I did badly in their class, but he's basically including his bad experience with me in a letter that I don't even want him to write. What I am going to try to do is to convince the several teachers who do like me to just upload their own letters without the involvement of the medical head. Sadly this hasn't been done before and a lot of teachers are friends with Richard. Even though it may be hard to do this, Richard made it very clear to me that he will basically end my chances of getting in so I think this will be the best option.

 

[DrStephennmnm]

Hey, I saw a lot of comments on this and I guess I didn't make myself clear. I would NEVER ask this teacher for a recommendation letter, he would be the last teacher I come to. Sadly my school has this policy that when one is applying to med school, when they get teachers to agree to write letters, all the letters have to be sent to the medical head and then HE writes the ultimate letter. So example lets say bob, dan, and kelly agreed to write letters for me, they all go to the medical head named Richard and he writes the ultimate letter. I would never ask a teacher for a good recommendation if I did badly in their class, but he's basically including his bad experience with me in a letter that I don't even want him to write. What I am going to try to do is to convince the several teachers who do like me to just upload their own letters without the involvement of the medical head. Sadly this hasn't been done before and a lot of teachers are friends with Richard. Even though it may be hard to do this, Richard made it very clear to me that he will basically end my chances of getting in so I think this will be the best option.

I would look into your schools policy on this. You don't want to end up getting an institutional action because you didn't follow the university's science dept rules.

 

[VetGirl42]

Don't give up!

I would try to have a heart-to-heart conversation with your pre-med advisor. Tell him you understand where he is coming from and he's certainly right that you messed up a few years ago. Admit and own up to your mistakes and express your desire to improve and do better--and ask him to help you with that. Then start to commit yourself to this- try your best to be on time, act professionally, be polite (basically what you imagine a good doctor would be like). Once he realizes that you're serious and this really means a lot to you, that's going to be an even STRONGER letter (since he can attest to your ability to improve, grit, and dedication)

Hang in there!

Absolutely own your mistakes, but point at how that has changed and that you are on an upward trend. I would do as much as you can in writing so that you have proof of the bias. If he comes around it was an unnecessary step but if they don’t it might give you weight to get an exception as to who writes you letter of reference.

 

[DrStephennmnm]

Also, is it just me or does anyone else find this situation suspicious? Like how many professors remember after 4 years if a student missed lecture? I feel there might be more to this story than just the OP....

 

[sunshinefl]

I do not think it is possible to avoid a letter from your pre-med advisor when applying to an American medical school. However I do not know the policy with regards to osteopathic schools.

were you accepted at osteopathic or medical school ? Congratulations

Sorry OP, don’t mean to interrupt your thread but I can’t let these slide. “Osteopathic schools” are “American medical schools”.

 

[DrStephennmnm]

Sorry OP, don’t mean to interrupt your thread but I can’t let these slide. “Osteopathic schools” are “American medical schools”.

Don't get too butt hurt here I don't think he meant anything of it

 

[sunshinefl]

Don't get too butt hurt here I don't think he meant anything of it

Not “butthurt” just correcting inaccuracies.

 

[jayeyes97]

this thread carried on way longer than I expected so I just want to clarify about my earlier story in light of the other comments:

To make a long story short, she denied me the committee letter. I was literally f-----g crushed. Turns out I got denied over my orgo 1 grade- which was a C. That was it. I hated orgo, it hated me. I was not going to have a committee letter. I thought it would completely sink me.

To make a long story even shorter: I was accepted to a medical school yesterday. No committee letter, similar grades to yours, but with lots of extra curricular activities to make up for the deficits I couldn't fix easily.

I essentially took a gap year to make up for my grades. I graduated undergrad in 3 years so the year didn't delay me, but I knew I needed the extra time to do the things I needed to make myself a truly solid, competitive applicant. It is nearly impossible to take that orgo lab, get clinical hours (at least 200+), volunteer hours, and study for the MCAT. I worked really hard to prove I was more than my grades and you'll have to do the same. Trust me, a year will seem like nothing in the long run!

 

[MDwarrior]

Great news

 

[kayvhorn]

Ok so originally I was very interested in becoming a physical therapist and owning my own practice so my undergraduate courses were chosen for that goal. I was still a bio major but I took courses such as kinesiology, exercise physiology, etc, instead of upper level science courses like molecular genetics. After observation hours and great contemplation about physical therapy, I decided late that it wasn't worth it for me, with the biggest factor being the debt to income ratio. I always loved the science behind medicine in classes like chemistry, biology, and really enjoyed learning about the physiology of the body in a and p2. I did some thinking and research and decided that PM&R would be the perfect field for me. So I'm about to graduate in a week with a 3.6 GPA, but I did a lot better in my pre PT classes than in the classes required for medical school. I have As in physics 1 and 2, A/A- in biology, in chem I have A-/A- but i retook both chems and the original grades were Cs. Lastly I have a B/B- in orgo but I didn't take either lab. The point I'm trying to make with these grades are that they are bad and I need all the help I can get if I want to reach my goal of attending medical school in the fall of next year. The pre med advisor has disliked me for a long time cause when I had him I was a serious slacker in school, which is also the reason for the poor grades. Unfortunately my school has a system that for letters of recommendation HE has to be the one to write it. He says that he takes all the letters from the teachers that have agreed to write me a letter, and he ultimately decides what to include from each letter in his master letter. He told me verbadum that he'll be sure to include all the times I was late and didn't show up to his class in his letter and much more. I'm very set in going to med school, I enrolled for an EMT course this summer to get clinical experience, taking both orgo labs over the summer, and will study very intensely for the MCAT. My credentials are lacking and with my pre med advisor plotting to write a master recommendation letter that basically does the opposite of that, I'm not sure what to do. I'm African American and I heard that gives me a higher chance of getting in but I don't think that'll be enough considering my circumstance. Please, from people who have gotten in or plan to, any advice would be appreciated.

If he has clearly told you that he will make sure he includes all his negative perception of you, then stop focusing on him and search for LORs somewhere else. You can send individual letters of professors who know your true character and have seen you grow over the years. I was not a premed, but I was always a good student. My professors loved me. But I made sure I went to the people who knew me best, who saw me struggle and come out on top. Also, you need to volunteer at hospitals and try to shadow physicians for a while. Give them the reason and the MATERIAL to write you a letter. Show them you are made for this, and I am sure they will gladly do it for you. Best of luck!!!!

 

[armycombatmedic]

Ok so originally I was very interested in becoming a physical therapist and owning my own practice so my undergraduate courses were chosen for that goal. I was still a bio major but I took courses such as kinesiology, exercise physiology, etc, instead of upper level science courses like molecular genetics. After observation hours and great contemplation about physical therapy, I decided late that it wasn't worth it for me, with the biggest factor being the debt to income ratio. I always loved the science behind medicine in classes like chemistry, biology, and really enjoyed learning about the physiology of the body in a and p2. I did some thinking and research and decided that PM&R would be the perfect field for me. So I'm about to graduate in a week with a 3.6 GPA, but I did a lot better in my pre PT classes than in the classes required for medical school. I have As in physics 1 and 2, A/A- in biology, in chem I have A-/A- but i retook both chems and the original grades were Cs. Lastly I have a B/B- in orgo but I didn't take either lab. The point I'm trying to make with these grades are that they are bad and I need all the help I can get if I want to reach my goal of attending medical school in the fall of next year. The pre med advisor has disliked me for a long time cause when I had him I was a serious slacker in school, which is also the reason for the poor grades. Unfortunately my school has a system that for letters of recommendation HE has to be the one to write it. He says that he takes all the letters from the teachers that have agreed to write me a letter, and he ultimately decides what to include from each letter in his master letter. He told me verbadum that he'll be sure to include all the times I was late and didn't show up to his class in his letter and much more. I'm very set in going to med school, I enrolled for an EMT course this summer to get clinical experience, taking both orgo labs over the summer, and will study very intensely for the MCAT. My credentials are lacking and with my pre med advisor plotting to write a master recommendation letter that basically does the opposite of that, I'm not sure what to do. I'm African American and I heard that gives me a higher chance of getting in but I don't think that'll be enough considering my circumstance. Please, from people who have gotten in or plan to, any advice would be appreciated.

It is refreshing to read that you are willing to put all the hard work it takes to become a competitive applicant for Medical School. will recommend you contact Dr. Andre Pinesett (he has a youtube channel-just google his name) I am recommending him because he is an expert on pre-med advice. I am not getting paid to advertise his services and I would not recommend anybody that I would have not paid for services. I think that SDN is not the best advice source when you are looking for advice on such personal circumstances as yours. I am not sure what your pre-med advisor is doing is legal. I do have a similar service at the school where I graduated and they will send all the individual letters together in one package; there is no master letter. You might want to check the rules/guidelines/agreements for that service. I wish you the best of lucks. If you are determined to become a physician I know you will.

 

[DrStephennmnm]

I am not sure what your pre-med advisor is doing is legal.

Why would you even think this? This just throws all your credibility away and makes you not fit to give advice, even advice on where to send other people for advice

 

[MDwarrior]

The data you gave us doesn’t support a good candidate overalll, take the time to improve your record, just being honest

 

[Passionseeking]

Also, is it just me or does anyone else find this situation suspicious? Like how many professors remember after 4 years if a student missed lecture? I feel there might be more to this story than just the OP....

Lol no I told everything exactly for what it was, I go to a really small private school and there were less than 20 people in my sophomore year class with him, so yea he remembers.

 

[Passionseeking]

Also thank you everyone for the great advice, I didn't expect the thread to get this many replies and I appreciate all of them. After some thought I'm pretty sure I'm gonna take a gap year to become an EMT and work as one for clinical hours, take the orgo labs, crush the mcat, get some volunteer hours, and possibly research. I really dislike the idea of not going to med school until 2 and a half years from now, but I've been advised from the people on sdn and reddit that it's the best option. The primary app opened a few days and applying late with my subpar application would just get me disappointed and turned down. If anyone thinks there is even a 30% chance of me getting in I'll take it, but if not I'll have to wait. And for the LOR I'm just gonna ask like philosophy and religion teachers and maybe one or 2 science teachers I can convince to not send it to the head.

 

[Passionseeking]

Also for those interested I'm attaching what I sent in other forums to determine if I should apply this cycle

 

[Passionseeking]

Ok so I know this may sound crazy to attempt but hear me out. I am graduating in 2 days as a bio major but I decided late into my college career that I wanted to pursue medicine (late as in a week ago, but this was after MAJOR contemplation and research.) I know this is the path for me and I am willing to wait an extra year if I really need to, but it would be greatly preferred if I could apply during this cycle.

Sadly I am not a competitive applicant as of now due to circumstances like my premed head threatening to write an awful letter about me, but I believe I can get around that and hopefully convince my other teachers to write letters and to not send it to him, even though this has never been done before.

Also my current prereqs are not too fantastic- Bio 1-A, Bio 2- A-, Chem 1- C+ (retake A-), Chem 2- C (Retake A-), Physics 1- A, Physics 2- A (hopefully this final in 2 days doesn't change that lol), Orgo 1- B, Orgo 2- B-. Current total GPA is a 3.6 but this GPA completely replaces my retaken classes, and my science GPA after averaging the original grades with the retakes is a 3.38. My grades suck because I wasn't super serious in school due to residual high school mentality and other issues but that is long gone. My GPA from my last 2 semesters will be about a 3.8 each semester, so I am hoping this shows an increasing trend. I have not taken the MCAT yet but I believe I can get a 515 on it if I study for the next 3 months, and I understand if people don't believe this because I know it is easier said then done, so if you don't just pretend I will get a 515 or a little higher.

In terms of extracurricular activities I played soccer, volleyball, cross country, track, and in track I currently hold 6 of my school's records. I was in a drama club in my school and starred as the lead in plays on and off-campus, and I started a track club and became the president. In terms of clinical hours I have none but I am beginning an EMT course in 2 weeks, and around mid-August I will be done and will work full time, and I plan to shadow a doctor or do any type of volunteer work during these next few months.

In terms of volunteer hours I have a few here and there but my largest sum of hours comes from volunteering at a physical therapy clinic for 100 hours (back when I wanted to be a physical therapist), but I am not sure if this counts.

No research has been done and I still need to take both my orgo labs. Also I heard it helps increase my chances so for what it's worth I am a black male. So my goal is to study for the MCAT, take the lab classes, and get my clinical hours done and apply around early September.

My work ethic is a lot better than it used to be so if there's a good chance that I can get into med school if these criteria are met then I will accomplish everything I need to do to do just that. Would love some thoughts and advice from anyone who is willing to help me out, any comment is very appreciated. Also my pre-med advisor doesn't help me at all so for anyone who puts a lot of thought and words into their reply thank you from the bottom of my heart.

 

[Passionseeking]

It is refreshing to read that you are willing to put all the hard work it takes to become a competitive applicant for Medical School. will recommend you contact Dr. Andre Pinesett (he has a youtube channel-just google his name) I am recommending him because he is an expert on pre-med advice. I am not getting paid to advertise his services and I would not recommend anybody that I would have not paid for services. I think that SDN is not the best advice source when you are looking for advice on such personal circumstances as yours. I am not sure what your pre-med advisor is doing is legal. I do have a similar service at the school where I graduated and they will send all the individual letters together in one package; there is no master letter. You might want to check the rules/guidelines/agreements for that service. I wish you the best of lucks. If you are determined to become a physician I know you will.

Tysm will check it out!

 

[Med Ed]

Tysm will check it out!

Don't waste your time. That guy is trying to cash in by repackaging the same information you can find for free.

 

[Med Ed]

I really dislike the idea of not going to med school until 2 and a half years from now, but I've been advised from the people on sdn and reddit that it's the best option.

It's not the best option, it's the only option. You can apply now with a weak app and get rejected or you can apply in the future with a strong app and be considering multiple offers. Your path is clear, just step up and do the work and you will be rewarded.