Name change for female medical students getting married

[OzDDS]

In Chinese culture, women traditionally do not change their last name upon marriage. My grandmothers nor my mom have ever done so so I figure why should I? My grandmothers were both married for over 50 years and my mother has been married for more than a quarter of a century. If a name change is big enough to incite divorce, then the marriage wasn't meant to last.

Chinese family names are patrilineal, passed from father to children. (In cases of adoption, the adoptee usually also takes the same surname.) Chinese women, after marriage, typically retain their birth surname. Historically, however, only Chinese men possessed xìng (family name), in addition to shì; the women had only the latter, and took on their husband's xìng after marriage.

In Hong Kong, mainland China, Korea, and Taiwan, women keep their own surnames, while the family as a whole is referred to by the surnames of the husbands.

It is also more common in Chinese culture that husband/father be the main breadwinner and the wife do more of the housework/child rearing duties..

Stay at home fathers in Chinese culture have never been/and are still not as well accepted as they are in western culture.

Also, immediate families in Chinese homes usually include grandparents and sometimes aunts and uncles who aid in child rearing while the parents go out to work.

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[OzDDS]

This is interesting..

Role reversals unhealthy studys show

 

[Qtip96]

Concerning women who are really devoted to their career... I don't have a problem with them at all. I just would just never want to marry one. (at least one who puts their career before supporting their husband and caring for their children\ie. being a wife and mother). If I met someone who was very devoted to their career too, then I may date them.. but I dont think I would consider them seriously for marriage.

I still do not consider women whole individuals with a true self and core identity. If women had any respect for themselves they woule not marry men for thier money, cars, career, the way he dresses, or any of the hundreds of other reasons that women marry men besides of who they are or just naturaly physical attraction. And, yes, women do throw themselves at men. IN college, women are pratically more aggrasive than men in trying to find a date or hook up with a guy. Call me old fashioned, but I do not beleive in women pursuing men for sex and relationship, that should be the mans job.

let me see...

OzDDS is a misogynist who isn't dating anyone and is PLANNING on applying to dental school...

piercj2 is a 22 year old misogynist COLLEGE student who can't get a girlfriend... god knows why he's hanging out at sdn...

BOTH sound like they withstood lots of maternal abuse, and BOTH spend all their time on a "doctor's spouse" web forum... kinda makes you go hmmmm... i think they want to play "hide the tallywhacker" with each other...

these idiots need to know that the human species has moved well beyond the male dominance polygyny model of animal mating behavior...

maybe that's asking too much. they just need to get a life!

 

[piercj2]

Four years from now when you are divorced, single and miserable in your career you may come back to this forum and realize what I am saying has some truth behind it, even if you don't agree with it. Society has progressed, but it still needs to hold on to some dignity

 

[Qtip96]

I still do not consider women whole individuals with a true self and core identity...

what I am saying has some truth behind it, even if you don't agree with it. Society has progressed, but it still needs to hold on to some dignity

you're a pathetic and delusional little misogynist.

scary thing is, you actually believe the garbage you're spewing...

 

[OzDDS]

let me see...

OzDDS is a misogynist who isn't dating anyone and is PLANNING on applying to dental school...

piercj2 is a 22 year old misogynist COLLEGE student who can't get a girlfriend... god knows why he's hanging out at sdn...

BOTH sound like they withstood lots of maternal abuse, and BOTH spend all their time on a "doctor's spouse" web forum... kinda makes you go hmmmm... i think they want to play "hide the tallywhacker" with each other...

these idiots need to know that the human species has moved well beyond the male dominance polygyny model of animal mating behavior...

maybe that's asking too much. they just need to get a life!

I like your little hat there "QTip".. bet its a real hit with the ladies..

Seriously.. Since you didn't have anything interesting or productive to add to the conversation. You have to resort to personal attacks. (and lousy ones at that).

Either add to the topic of discussion in an interesting productive way.. or leave.
Hell even give us some inflammatory comments (bring it on..) but please make them relating to the topic at hand.

Your childish personal attacks and attempts to get a rise out of me are neither interesting or amusing. (at least to anyone other than you)

Peace

 

[Qtip96]

I like your little hat there "QTip".. bet its a real hit with the ladies..

Seriously.. Since you didn't have anything interesting or productive to add to the conversation... Either add to the topic of discussion in an interesting productive way.. or leave.

thanks about the hat. it's pretty fly

seriously, what is there to say in reponse to what you *****s are sayin'? the gist of your garbage is that women have no integrity, no self identity, and need to concentrate on being a good wives by stayin' at home and makin' babies... all from a pair of loser med-wannabes who don't have any real life experience.

it doesn't sound any different from the racist bastards who'd say black people are stupid and should just play sports.

intelligent discussion with you pissants?

like i said, you nazi KKK womenhatin' sh*theads need to get a life.

 

[piercj2]

Qtip, you are the little punk bitch who just rushes into a forum and starts insulting people without even discussing the issue a bit. "Wanna be Pre-meds," who the hell are you, and what the hell are you. You have contributed nothing to the conversation except insults, at least give us your ideas, your opinions, some information, some facts, ect. You are just troll who has absolutely nothing do in the real world, and has no ideas to even express on a simple chat forum. It is disgraceful for me to even waste my time addressing you or even insulting you, becuase you are probably not even worth that thought given to it. Anyway, post a couple more comments and then go to another forum and do the same thing, it may end up giving you some purpose to your soul

 

[OzDDS]

thanks about the hat. it's pretty fly

seriously, what is there to say in reponse to what you *****s are sayin'? the gist of your garbage is that women have no integrity, no self identity, and need to concentrate on being a good wives by stayin' at home and makin' babies... all from a pair of loser med-wannabes who don't have any real life experience.

it doesn't sound any different from the racist bastards who'd say black people are stupid and should just play sports.

intelligent discussion with you pissants?

like i said, you nazi KKK womenhatin' sh*theads need to get a life.

1) Where did I ever say that women have no integrity or self identity?

2) I think you need to review the (TOS) for using this forum. If you want to start making personal attacks and calling people names. Then you're going to get banned.

Moderator.. moderator. Hello?

Troll Alert!!

 

[JohnnyOU]

thanks about the hat. it's pretty fly

seriously, what is there to say in reponse to what you *****s are sayin'? the gist of your garbage is that women have no integrity, no self identity, and need to concentrate on being a good wives by stayin' at home and makin' babies... all from a pair of loser med-wannabes who don't have any real life experience.

it doesn't sound any different from the racist bastards who'd say black people are stupid and should just play sports.

intelligent discussion with you pissants?

like i said, you nazi KKK womenhatin' sh*theads need to get a life.

LOL
Are you still in high school or what?

 

[NonTradMed]

Chinese family names are patrilineal, passed from father to children. (In cases of adoption, the adoptee usually also takes the same surname.) Chinese women, after marriage, typically retain their birth surname. Historically, however, only Chinese men possessed xìng (family name), in addition to shì; the women had only the latter, and took on their husband's xìng after marriage.

In Hong Kong, mainland China, Korea, and Taiwan, women keep their own surnames, while the family as a whole is referred to by the surnames of the husbands.

It is also more common in Chinese culture that husband/father be the main breadwinner and the wife do more of the housework/child rearing duties..

Stay at home fathers in Chinese culture have never been/and are still not as well accepted as they are in western culture.

Also, immediate families in Chinese homes usually include grandparents and sometimes aunts and uncles who aid in child rearing while the parents go out to work.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make....? The information on wiki is more or less correct except for the fact that Chinese women are no longer referred to in their husband's surname automatically. In the urban areas, and even in smaller chinese towns, that custom died down a while back. I can't say much for Taiwan or Hong Kong since their cultures are slightly different than the mainlands.

Also, while women shoulder more of the childcare, many urban Chinese families no longer have the father has the primary breadwinner for the simple reason that women have been out in the workforce fulltime and their income is a necessary part of their family budget (or at least a big enough chunk of it that the father can no longer say he is the main breadwinner and her money is just 'play' money). Hence, it is very common for grandparents to care for the grandkids. My grandma provided care for all her grandkids until they went to school, and it's something she's very proud of.

 

[OzDDS]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make....? The information on wiki is more or less correct except for the fact that Chinese women are no longer referred to in their husband's surname automatically. In the urban areas, and even in smaller chinese towns, that custom died down a while back. I can't say much for Taiwan or Hong Kong since their cultures are slightly different than the mainlands.

Also, while women shoulder more of the childcare, many urban Chinese families no longer have the father has the primary breadwinner for the simple reason that women have been out in the workforce fulltime and their income is a necessary part of their family budget (or at least a big enough chunk of it that the father can no longer say he is the main breadwinner and her money is just 'play' money). Hence, it is very common for grandparents to care for the grandkids. My grandma provided care for all her grandkids until they went to school, and it's something she's very proud of.

No point.. Just thought that was interesting.. Yeah.. I agree. It takes a lot of effort to raise kids if you decide to have them. That was very nice of your grandmother to help your parents out so much.

 

[OzDDS]

I thought I would repost this to see if anyone else had any opinions:

There is nothing about declining to change her name that interferes in any way with being an awesome wife and mother.

And just because she does change her name does not mean that she WILL be a good wife and mother.

This is true.. although personally.. I would prefer "if" I were to marry that my future wife took my last name.

It is a proven fact that those who get pre-nups have a higher divorce rate than those who dont. Because it makes it legally easier to separate... the same could be argued for "not changing your name". Just a thought..

Anyone else agree with this theory?

 

[Qtip96]

I still do not consider women whole individuals with a true self and core identity...

Typical female response, deflect the issue and change the subject. Women are not indepentend autounomous minded humans. Thier instincts just react to situations around them without considering why or what might happen.

To some extent I agree with you. I don't think many men of our generation really have many reasons to get married anymore. Unless you wanted to have kids, and sometimes not even then..

Why would a man ever wish to legally bind himself to a (post-feminism/modern woman), a woman who's not really interested in taking his name, more interested in focusing on her career than supporting him and a potential family.. a woman who may possibly be more bossy, fickle, more careless/carefree in relationships...

What man would really want a domineering career minded woman for a wife and mother of his children.. unless of course.. she was rich and the man is poor. Women have always wanted to be in the positions in business/the career world that men have.. and now they have it. And guess what.. now they can have men who want them for just their money too! I guess what goes around comes around.

i highly advise carefully reading your own posts.

piercj2 has been persistently degrading the character, intelligence, and moral fiber of women in general. you, OzDDS, have clearly pointed out that you feel intelligent, professional women are not only less desirable, but are also "fickle" and "careless/carefree in relationships", whose purpose for men is to have babies.

how is any woman supposed to response to this? "no we are not!"???? how can there be an intelligent discussion with the precedent you guys have set? your (and piercj2's) statements have blown your credibility. the combination of both your garbage has driven out the participation of all intelligent, professional spouses and partners for whom this forum was created. the only *****s left are you guys (and men of like mind) and me. there is NO intelligent conversation to be had with the content of your collective posts.

no smart woman would be interested in listening to you whackjobs for marital advice. and who are you guys? i've delineated your credentials on a previous derogatory post. not exactly an edifice of experience and wisdom with regard to medicine and its impact on relationships.

yes, i am a troll. but an educated troll. i've completed college and medical school at ivy league schools. i'm a licensed and practicing MD. long married to a smart, driven, professional woman (who makes more money than me, mind you). your collective posts have been so offensive, that i was compelled to some internet vigilantism. shame on me

 

[OzDDS]

i highly advise carefully reading your own posts.

piercj2 has been persistently degrading the character, intelligence, and moral fiber of women in general. you, OzDDS, have clearly pointed out that you feel intelligent, professional women are not only less desirable, but are also "fickle" and "careless/carefree in relationships".

how is any woman supposed to response to this? "no we are not!"???? how can there be an intelligent discussion with the precedent you guys have set? your (and piercj2's) statements have blown your credibility. the combination of both your garbage has driven out the participation of all intelligent, professional spouses and partners for whom this forum was created. the only *****s left are you guys (and men of like mind) and me. there is NO intelligent conversation to be had with the content of your collective posts.

yes, i am a troll. but an educated troll. i've completed college and medical school at ivy league schools. i'm a licensed and practicing MD. long married to a smart, driven, professional woman (who makes more money than me, mind you). your collective posts have been so offensive, that i was compelled to some internet vigilantism. shame on me

Again, I have never said that women lack integrity or self identity or anything of the like. piercj2 may have said something to that effect but I haven't, so please do not claim that I have.

If you read all my post you would have also come across this one:

Men have always been the hunters women have always been the careers in every society around the world for hundreds of thousands of years, and in the past 60 years it’s all turned around. And good for them! I’m not saying that I think women are inferior at doing any job out there. Sometimes women can do those jobs just as well or better then men.

I have no problem with any choice women make in their own personal lives..
But just like women have their choice.. I also have mine. And I would prefer to marry a woman who would be willing and more able to be around for their children more than a female full time physician would likely be able to.

I am entitled to my opinion.

Don’t like it? Tough titty!

I have not called anyone names or been derogatory to anyone. You have!

Again, either contribute to this thread and disucss your opinons on the matter at hand or leave. I don’t think anyone else is interested in hearing anymore of your personal insults. Honestly, its not that interesting and it’s against the SDN TOS.

Peace

 

[Qtip96]

I don't think many men of our generation really have many reasons to get married anymore. Unless you wanted to have kids, and sometimes not even then...

Why would a man ever wish to legally bind himself to a (post-feminism/modern woman), a woman who's not really interested in taking his name, more interested in focusing on her career than supporting him and a potential family.. a woman who may possibly be more bossy, fickle, more careless/carefree in relationships...

I’m just saying that most men find women who are career equals or higher than them sometimes physically attractive yes, but most usually don’t really see them as someone who they can envision as a potential future wife and mother.

What man would really want a domineering career minded woman for a wife and mother of his children.. unless of course.. she was rich and the man is poor...

Women are not indepentend autounomous minded humans. Thier instincts just react to situations around them without considering why or what might happen

I still do not consider women whole individuals with a true self and core identity...

Originally Posted by piercj2
http://www.montana.edu/wrt/opt_out_revolution.pdf
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/story?id=2067008&page=2
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...t-divorce_x.htm
http://www2.duq.edu/familyinstitute...csmf/cohab.html
http://www.india-today.com/iplus/1998_3/sex.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/20/n...c09c249&ei=5090
http://www.alternet.org/story/28621...60155&pID=59141

Some of these are pretty interesting.. piercj2, I understand what your saying....

what was this thread all about? it was principally about a woman physician's plight with regard to name change.

what are your and piercj2's contribution to this discussion? read above. the general gist of your message is that women can have careers (and be successful), but those who choose careers are fickle, make poor spouses, poor mothers, and are generally less desirable. interjected of course, with some non-sequitur about men suffering from poor health if they are not the bread-winners. this, of course, interspersed with piercj2's comments about his deep insight into the female psyche. your collective advice for a very good professional and personal question is that women physicians should generally give up their careers and seek a traditional marriage in order to attain guys like yourselves.

do you call this a constructive contribution? do you have ANY insight into the beaurocracy surrounding name change for a doctor? navigating accreditation, licensure, DEA and DPH certification, the list goes on and on. do you observe ANY of the original participants in this thread contributing anymore? it's because this thread has been hijacked by your and piercj2's asinine comments.

as for the plight of women in this era. indeed, divorce rates are ~50%, irrespective of where you want to place the blame. continue to advise young women to seek a livelihood as a housewife, and risk the 50% odds that she may be left in the streets without a livelihood. And which parent usually ends up with the children? have you heard a lot about the plight of the single urban father? given the statistics and circumstances, modern women HAVE to know how to sustain themselves for PURE SURVIVAL, or they need to financially secure their (and their children's) future.

and who are you guys? BOYS. that's right, BOYS. get some real world experience, then you will have something to contribute. your and piecj2's collective posts are not only offensive, but also completely irrelevant to this thread and insulting for women physicians. my taunts posted above are no less worthless, but at least they were restricted to you, and not to all women professionals.

 

[DrMom]

If you're not here to be a constructive part of the topic of the thread--meaning suggestions & examples of dealing with name issues in marriage--do not post on the thread.

It is a TOS violation to go into a forum to deride its members. Violations of the TOS can lead to post-holds or being banned from SDN.

 

[OzDDS]

what was this thread all about? it was principally about a woman physician's plight with regard to name change.

what are your and piercj2's contribution to this discussion? .

What are yours? It doesn't look like you have contribued to this discussion at all other than to call others names.

Originally Posted by piercj2
http://www.montana.edu/wrt/opt_out_revolution.pdf
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/story?id=2067008&page=2
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...t-divorce_x.htm
http://www2.duq.edu/familyinstitute...csmf/cohab.html
http://www.india-today.com/iplus/1998_3/sex.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/20/n...c09c249&ei=5090
http://www.alternet.org/story/28621...60155&pID=59141

Some of these are pretty interesting.. piercj2, I understand what your saying.....

I like how you conviently cut off the rest of what I said..

Here is my entire Quote. "Some of these are pretty interesting.. piercj2, I understand what your saying.. but if you really want others to listen to your point of view.. you might want to try and not say it in such an inflammatory way. Peace."

Same advice could go for you Mr. Qtip!

your collective advice for a very good professional and personal question is that women physicians should generally give up their careers and seek a traditional marriage in order to attain guys like yourselves..

piercj2 and I are different people with slightly different opinions.. if you want to address anything we have said.. do it individually thank you.

Regardless.. I NEVER (how many times do I have to say this to the Troll) that I think women should give up their jobs! I have actually said that I think women can do just as good a job as men, sometimes even better!

I simply gave my opinion that if I were to choose a wife, it would be someone who had a more flexible schedule and could spend more time at home caring for our potential children. I'm entitled to this opinion.. get over it.

as for the plight of women in this era. indeed, divorce rates are ~50%, irrespective of where you want to place the blame. continue to advise young women to seek a livelihood as a housewife, and risk the 50% odds that she may be left in the streets without a livelihood. And which parent usually ends up with the children? have you heard a lot about the plight of the single urban father? given the statistics and circumstances, modern women HAVE to know how to sustain themselves for PURE SURVIVAL, or they need to financially secure their (and their children's) future.

Look.. see now that wasn't so hard. Thank you for at least begining to contribute to the thread by giving your opinion on some things. If you woud like... I'd be happy to discuss some of these things with you (If you can refrain from cheap name calling and actually have a productive discussion)

my taunts posted above are no less worthless

At least you can recognise this!

Peace

 

[OzDDS]

Thank you DrMom!!

 

[OzDDS]

I thought I would repost this to see if anyone else had any opinions:

There is nothing about declining to change her name that interferes in any way with being an awesome wife and mother.

And just because she does change her name does not mean that she WILL be a good wife and mother.

This is true.. although personally.. I would prefer "if" I were to marry that my future wife took my last name.

It is a proven fact that those who get pre-nups have a higher divorce rate than those who dont. Because it makes it legally easier to separate... the same could be argued for "not changing your name". Just a thought..

Anyone else agree with this theory?

 

[FutureTeacher]

I thought I would repost this to see if anyone else had any opinions:

It is a proven fact that those who get pre-nups have a higher divorce rate than those who dont. Because it makes it legally easier to separate... the same could be argued for "not changing your name". Just a thought..

Anyone else agree with this theory?

It may but my guess would be no. The pre-nup makes it easier to divorce because you know what kind of financial situation both parties will be in afterwards. The name change just makes it so that you don't have to change your name. BUT, you don't have to change your name anyway. You can get divorced and keep your ex-spouses last name. Plus, it doesn't take much to get your name changed.

Personally, I feel that both parties should just make up a new name when they get married (if this an issue), problem solved. I got married just over a year ago and took my husband's last name. I have no regrets. In the beginning, it was difficult to remember the new name. I would sign my credit card receipts with the wrong name and miss my name on the class roster. After a couple of months, it became automatic without having to think about it. Now, when people call me by my maiden name, I hesitate. I would never dream of hypenating. I think it is ridiculous. I mean what happens when two people with hyphenated names get married? Do they become Jones-Smith-Brown-Adams? Where does it end?

 

[OzDDS]

It may but my guess would be no. The pre-nup makes it easier to divorce because you know what kind of financial situation both parties will be in afterwards. The name change just makes it so that you don't have to change your name. BUT, you don't have to change your name anyway. You can get divorced and keep your ex-spouses last name. Plus, it doesn't take much to get your name changed.

Well.. considering the example where a woman would take her husbands last name. Not taking it and keeping her own would allow her to legally seperate from him.. if she has a diff name.. your name is your life (your signature)

You say it doesn't take much to get your name changed.. others say it is very difficult?

I know the initial paperwork may be simple and easy at the gov office.. but there is a lot more paperwork than just the one form you fill out to change it.. You have to change it on your cards, title to your car/house/boat, bank accounts, checks, office, etc..

Again.. if you never took your husbands name in the first place.. (it would be easier to seperate yourself legally from him).. would make going through a divorce easier with less paperwork.. which in effect what a pre-nup also does by negating the need to argue over stuff.. Everything is already listed out who can take what when they leave. (ie. easier to seperate).

I dunno.. just a theory

Personally, I feel that both parties should just make up a new name when they get married (if this an issue), problem solved. I got married just over a year ago and took my husband's last name. I have no regrets. In the beginning, it was difficult to remember the new name. I would sign my credit card receipts with the wrong name and miss my name on the class roster. After a couple of months, it became automatic without having to think about it. Now, when people call me by my maiden name, I hesitate. I would never dream of hypenating. I think it is ridiculous. I mean what happens when two people with hyphenated names get married? Do they become Jones-Smith-Brown-Adams? Where does it end?

I understand what you mean regarding the hypenation.. gets a bet too long! Why did you personally choose to take your husbands last name. Did you ever bring up your idea of creating a new last name for the both of you to him?

 

[cowbell]

I would prefer "if" I were to marry that my future wife took my last name.

It is a proven fact that those who get pre-nups have a higher divorce rate than those who dont. Because it makes it legally easier to separate... the same could be argued for "not changing your name".

Given the high divorce rate in general, I don't think prenups or lack of name change has a significant impact. The decisions for these are more often weighted on practical and financial issues than on personal considerations.

With regard to name change, it is most effectively done before medical school graduation if at all. Like Qtip mentioned, negotiating the red tape in changing a physician's name is a nightmare. We're talking not only licensure, but also professional organizations, certifications, etc. State and federal regulations are very tight with regard to doctors' identities for reasons too numerous to count. Also, once a name is changed, that person stands a 50% chance of having to change it back!

With all due respect, OzDDS, your professed personal opinion regarding your preferences for family structure give you very little credibility in this discussion.

 

[OzDDS]

Given the high divorce rate in general, I don't think prenups or lack of name change has a significant impact. The decisions for these are more often weighted on practical and financial issues than on personal considerations.

With regard to name change, it is most effectively done before medical school graduation if at all. Like Qtip mentioned, negotiating the red tape in changing a physician's name is a nightmare. We're talking not only licensure, but also professional organizations, certifications, etc. State and federal regulations are very tight with regard to doctors' identities for reasons too numerous to count. Also, once a name is changed, that person stands a 50% chance of having to change it back!

With all due respect, OzDDS, your professed personal opinion regarding your preferences for family structure give you very little credibility in this discussion.

Again.. can we keep on topic? (you don't even know me) What is it with this stuff? I'm entitled to my opinion.. what you've said doesn't even make sense.

my opinion on my "personal" preference for "MY" family structure -> Gives me no credibility?

How does my "preference" for what sort of wife I want or life I want to lead "discredit" me?

What if you are a homosexual and I said.. "because you are gay, you have no right to comment on such things.. your personal sexual preference precludes you from having an opinion"

That's ridiculous!!

I'm not discrediting what Qtip said about it being a difficult process to change your name. I never said that it wasn't difficult!

Seriously, Just give your opinion.. lets keep on topic. No more personal attacks please.

Either discuss politely or leave. Thanks.

 

[OzDDS]

Given the high divorce rate in general, I don't think prenups or lack of name change has a significant impact. The decisions for these are more often weighted on practical and financial issues than on personal considerations.

With regard to name change, it is most effectively done before medical school graduation if at all. Like Qtip mentioned, negotiating the red tape in changing a physician's name is a nightmare. We're talking not only licensure, but also professional organizations, certifications, etc. State and federal regulations are very tight with regard to doctors' identities for reasons too numerous to count. Also, once a name is changed, that person stands a 50% chance of having to change it back!

I agree with most everything you've said. It is a big ordeal.

Just curious.. what do you think are the major reasons for the current divorce rate?

 

[FutureTeacher]

I understand what you mean regarding the hypenation.. gets a bet too long! Why did you personally choose to take your husbands last name. Did you ever bring up your idea of creating a new last name for the both of you to him?

I chose to take my husband's last name because I did not want to have a different last name than my husband or future children.

Regarding the name change, (of course I am not a med student) it took one day to get my new license (actually about 10 minutes), then we went to the social security office and handed in the paperwork. They mailed me a card in two weeks. I faxed a copy of my drivers licenses to my credit card companies and the appropriate form. It took about a day and then they mailed me cards with the new name. For my school records, I filled out the form and mailed it in along with a copy of my new drivers license. All of my records were changed. I had the same experience with my professional certifications (notary, teacher certifications, RN license). I don't think it was as big of a deal as a lot of women make it.

My husband and I talked about picking a new name but in the end we couldn't decide on one. We ended up taking his.

I have never had a problem with the new name. If I need to show my school records, both names are on them. My professional certs are listed FirstName MiddleName LastName. My maiden name does not appear anywhere except on my high school records, marriage certificate, and passport (lists both names).

 

[cowbell]

I'm entitled to my opinion.. what you've said doesn't even make sense.

my opinion on my "personal" preference for "MY" family structure -> Gives me no credibility?

How does my "preference" for what sort of wife I want or life I want to lead "discredit" me? ...

Either discuss politely or leave. Thanks.

Let me preface this by first saying that this is not a personal attack. By CREDIBILITY, I am referring to the persuasiveness or believability of your arguments, determined by our perception of your experience, knowledge, and integrity. I have no reason to question your integrity or sincerity, but the context of this discussion is a woman student doctor who is contemplating the personal and professional ramifications of changing her name. At issue are the pros and cons of name change for this individual, and NOT the general merit of her career choice with regard to her gender (on which you have expressed many opnions). You have made it quite clear that you consider professional women to be undesirable as a partner and mother of your (future) children, and that your expectation is that your (possible) future wife take your surname. As for the experiential component, you are not even married, and you are neither a doctor nor a doctor's spouse. Why is it not plausible for you that your arguments lack persuasiveness on your intended audience, i.e. married professional women?

I have been polite... and I'm leaving.

 

[piercj2]

It still blows my mind how some people cannot understand, and don't want to understand the problems with the divorce rate and how it has effects on families. A already posted a series of articles that explains the rise in sinle parent families, cohabition, later marry age, decline in child rearing ect. Once, again, did this happen before or after feminism, point made. Besides for that, why are women more opposed to changing their last name. It did not seem to be a problem 60 or so year ago, or if ever before recent times. This is another example of how thier is more compitition between the genders, and both genders respect each other less. Reasearch the topic of American familes in the U.S. and see if you can find any positive trends- my guess is you can't. I really don't have anything against any people or really against women (or men) in general, but I do have personal problems with the way our society is turning, and some of those answers are inbedded in the way genders enteract, or a specific gender eneracts. Obsiously there are other factors contributing to this, but up until recent times in America we have never felt the effects of the way familes are changing. The answer is, some people will just sit there and watch things change while they get divorced, don't get along in thier marriage, are not a supportive loving family, are competitve and un accepting of thier spouse, ect, ect and some people will look for ways to try and get around or fix the problem- or at least recognize it. No body can argue that one parent family is better for the children, adults, loved ones, ect, and that is why it is important to realize that gender relations have changed dramatically, and if they haven't then we would not have the problems we now face in relationships. Some things are good to discuss

 

[Qtip96]

It still blows my mind how some people cannot understand, and don't want to understand the problems with the divorce rate and how it has effects on families. A already posted a series of articles that explains the rise in sinle parent families, cohabition, later marry age, decline in child rearing ect. Once, again, did this happen before or after feminism, point made. Besides for that, why are women more opposed to changing their last name. It did not seem to be a problem 60 or so year ago, or if ever before recent times. This is another example of how thier is more compitition between the genders, and both genders respect each other less. Reasearch the topic of American familes in the U.S. and see if you can find any positive trends- my guess is you can't. I really don't have anything against any people or really against women (or men) in general, but I do have personal problems with the way our society is turning, and some of those answers are inbedded in the way genders enteract, or a specific gender eneracts. Obsiously there are other factors contributing to this, but up until recent times in America we have never felt the effects of the way familes are changing. The answer is, some people will just sit there and watch things change while they get divorced, don't get along in thier marriage, are not a supportive loving family, are competitve and un accepting of thier spouse, ect, ect and some people will look for ways to try and get around or fix the problem- or at least recognize it. No body can argue that one parent family is better for the children, adults, loved ones, ect, and that is why it is important to realize that gender relations have changed dramatically, and if they haven't then we would not have the problems we now face in relationships. Some things are good to discuss

ahem...

If you're not here to be a constructive part of the topic of the thread--meaning suggestions & examples of dealing with name issues in marriage--do not post on the thread.

 

[SaraL124]

Back to the original topic, I added my husband's last name to my name when I got married. So now I use Firstname Maidenname Husbandlastname as my full name. My original middle name is on all my official paperwork, SS card, Driver's liscense, etc. so on those documents, I have 4 names. I use my last name and husband's last name as a single last name with no hyphen. I will happily go by Mrs. bothnames, or Mrs husband last name, however, when I graduate with my PhD I will ask people to call me Dr. both names or Dr. husband last name. I worked for my degree and if my husband gets to be called Dr. after working for his MD, so can I! I changed my name because I wanted to be easily identified as a family with my husband and eventual children (although my husband and I have decided to put my maiden name on our children's birth certificates as a second middle name, but they won't be called by both the way I am). In a way, changing your name is the lazy way out because it is so socially acceptable, and it jus makes it easier for things like buying/renting a house, bank accounts, etc. Even though I did change my name, I am still surprised by other women in my generation making the same decision as I did because to me, the name change seems so patriarchal and outdated, like we are property of our husbands. But whatever, I got over that for my own personal situation.

It was NOT difficult in the slightest to change my name as other posters have said, and I cannot imagine that modern women would opt to stay in an unhappy marriage because of the hassles of changing the married name back to the maiden name.


To address piercj2's comments throughout the thread, I just want to say that yes, it may be true that divorce rates, single parent families, etc increased after the feminist movement in the 1960s/70s, but that was a time when women were finally allowed by goverment and society to leave the home to pursue a career if they wanted to. These were times when women were allowed to put their own needs first and to make choices for themselves and not only for their husbands' or childrens' sake. Women had been unhappy with the status quo and so they finally decided to do something about it. It wasn't as if, all of a sudden women were becoming unhappy, it had been there in the background all along. The feminist movement was when women decided to DO something about it. So, you may have had "happy" families with a traditional homemaker wife, and breadwinner husband, but who is to say these people were any happier back then? People are only getting divorced now in such astronomical rates because 1) it IS more socially acceptable and 2) the women in the relationship now have a career of their own to fall back on instead of relying on their husbands. Is a child reared in a 2-parent familiy that much better off if the parents hate each other than in a situation where they see one single parent at a time? Yes, the high divorce rate among married couples nowadays is atrocious, I agre with you there, but you must understand that people, families, and children are resilient. Normal is only what we say it is. What you are saying is better or worse is your opinion only. Who is to say that 60 or even 100 years ago, people weren't just as unhappy in their marriages but due to financial constraints (for the women) and social desirability, divorce just wasn't an option? Is that really better for everyone involved?

Have you ever read the Feminine Mystique by Betty Friedan? If not, I highly recommend it. If nothing else, it should help you hone your arguments.

Additionally, with things the way they are nowadays, I would be surprised if any of the men I know would insist or even prefer that their wives stay at home to care for the children because a woman's 40-50% of the household income can substantially increase the standard of living for the entire family.

 

[cowbell]

It was NOT difficult in the slightest to change my name as other posters have said...

I agree with you that it is generally not difficult to change your name. My wife and I went through it together a long time ago. BUT, as I said previously, it is entirely different for the practicing physician. Governing and regulatory bodies have a vested interest in strictly guarding the identities of doctors, for the protection of the doctors, patients, and the general public. There is a LOT of paperwork involved in staying in practice, and it is a royal pain to keep them all in order as it is. I think it also not so easy to change your name from the professional standpoint (name recognition). And generally, for the academic types, authorship in publications (source of reputation) are generally not changed. Of my acquintances I can't even name ONE practicing physician who changed her name after marriage. I'm sure there are many out there, but most hold on to their maiden names.

 

[OzDDS]

1) I have no reason to question your integrity or sincerity, but the context of this discussion is a woman student doctor who is contemplating the personal and professional ramifications of changing her name.

2)You have made it quite clear that you consider professional women to be undesirable as a partner and mother of your (future) children, and that your expectation is that your (possible) future wife take your surname.

3) As for the experiential component, you are not even married, and you are neither a doctor nor a doctor's spouse. Why is it not plausible for you that your arguments lack persuasiveness on your intended audience, i.e. married professional women?

1) This discussion could also have viewpoints from male student doctors who may also be getting married and have a vested interested or opinion in the matter.

2) Not all professional women, if there was one out there that had a more flexible position, one who valued her family over her career, and one who would be willing to take my family name. Then I would be open to that.

Also, this audience includes more than just professional women. "refer to 1)"

3) The intended audience for this particular thread actually was "anyone" who had an opinion for a "female med student", not "married professional women".

My parent's are both physicians.. I've grown up with people who deal with similar issues. I am a 24 year old college grad who will be (very soon) a male student doctor and I feel I am entitled to my opinion.

You can put any stock you like into my opinion.. but all the same. I'm entitled to have an opinion. And instead of beginning and ending your comments with statements telling me that my opinion is worthless... why don't you either 1) respond to it if you have a point to discuss.. or 2) ignore me.

 

[OzDDS]

it is entirely different for the practicing physician. Governing and regulatory bodies have a vested interest in strictly guarding the identities of doctors, for the protection of the doctors, patients, and the general public. There is a LOT of paperwork involved in staying in practice, and it is a royal pain to keep them all in order as it is. I think it also not so easy to change your name from the professional standpoint (name recognition). And generally, for the academic types, authorship in publications (source of reputation) are generally not changed. Of my acquintances I can't even name ONE practicing physician who changed her name after marriage. I'm sure there are many out there, but most hold on to their maiden names.

Agreed!

One reason why it would be a lot easier for a woman who is (still in medical school) who is considering marriage and who is also considering taking her husbands name to do it before she establishes her career.

 

[OzDDS]

it is entirely different for the practicing physician. Governing and regulatory bodies have a vested interest in strictly guarding the identities of doctors, for the protection of the doctors, patients, and the general public. There is a LOT of paperwork involved in staying in practice, and it is a royal pain to keep them all in order as it is. I think it also not so easy to change your name from the professional standpoint (name recognition). And generally, for the academic types, authorship in publications (source of reputation) are generally not changed. Of my acquintances I can't even name ONE practicing physician who changed her name after marriage. I'm sure there are many out there, but most hold on to their maiden names.

Agreed!

One reason why it would be a lot easier for a woman who is (still in medical school) who is considering marriage and who is also considering taking her husbands name to do it before she establishes her career.

 

[OzDDS]

1) Even though I did change my name, I am still surprised by other women in my generation making the same decision as I did because to me, the name change seems so patriarchal and outdated, like we are property of our husbands. But whatever, I got over that for my own personal situation.

2) It was NOT difficult in the slightest to change my name as other posters have said, and I cannot imagine that modern women would opt to stay in an unhappy marriage because of the hassles of changing the married name back to the maiden name.

1) I didn't mind the suggestion made earlier about both husband and wife changing both their names. As long as they all have the same "family name". I just don't like the idea of committing to a marriage and creating a new family.. and everyone having different "family" names. kind of silly.

If you're going to make the commitment.. I say go all the way. If you're not sure then don't get married in the first place.


2) I never stated that I thought a woman would stay in a marriage because the process of changing back was so difficult. I was saying that if a woman never did change her name in the first place when she married.. and then wanted to get a divorce.. this would make getting a divorce easier because it would be less hassle (less paperwork) and I made an analogy to a prenup agreement and how having one makes the transition of divorce easier (hence someone might be more likely to get a divorce if it were easier to obtain at the first sight of marital strife rather than seeking counseling and working through their problems).

 

[cowbell]

I didn't mind the suggestion made earlier about both husband and wife changing both their names. As long as they all have the same "family name".

Why would a man ever wish to legally bind himself to a (post-feminism/modern woman), a woman who's not really interested in taking his name...

This is true.. although personally.. I would prefer "if" I were to marry that my future wife took my last name.

if there was one out there that had a more flexible position, one who valued her family over her career, and one who would be willing to take my family name.

So which is it??? Given your previous posts, I sincerely don't think you believe in your first option.

As you stated, you are entitled to your opinions. So am I. Inasmuch as you can express them, I have an equal right to disagree.

As for this comment...

1) This discussion could also have viewpoints from male student doctors who may also be getting married and have a vested interested or opinion in the matter...

The OP IS a woman... and what exactly are the vested interests of male student doctors? Are you championing their cause?

The substance of your contributions have been to press your agenda in perceived social reform. Again, you are entitled to express your opinions and your personal preferences, but what is your motive? Despite your platitudes, it does not take a genius to discover that your personal philosophies are not dissimilar to the notorius piercj2's. Indeed, you have tried to repeatedly tell everyone that you think it is perfectly acceptable for women to take on professional careers, CONDITIONAL upon its subserviance to the husband's, and that her principle obligations should be to home-making and child-rearing...

Concerning women who are really devoted to their career... I don't have a problem with them at all. I just would just never want to marry one. (at least one who puts their career before supporting their husband and caring for their children\ie. being a wife and mother). If I met someone who was very devoted to their career too, then I may date them.. but I dont think I would consider them seriously for marriage.

If I'm going to choose to open myself to being married (ie. legally liable to support a wife and kids).. then I would prefer to marry someone who (if they have a career/then it comes second to their duty of being a wife and mother).

Again, you are most certainly entitled to your preferences, but what is your motive for voicing them on this public forum, and in what way does this help the OP? Is she to gather that in her choosing to be devoted to her career, she becomes less attractive to gentlemen as yourself? That she should be prepared to place her career secondary to her husband's? If this is the weight of your suggestions, then you are successful at getting the message accross. You should not voice such opinions without the anticipation of a rebuttal, and to expect otherwise is simply naive.

 

[SaraL124]

2) I never stated that I thought a woman would stay in a marriage because the process of changing back was so difficult. I was saying that if a woman never did change her name in the first place when she married.. and then wanted to get a divorce.. this would make getting a divorce easier because it would be less hassle (less paperwork) and I made an analogy to a prenup agreement and how having one makes the transition of divorce easier (hence someone might be more likely to get a divorce if it were easier to obtain at the first sight of marital strife rather than seeking counseling and working through their problems).

The point you're missing here is that paperwork or hassle is not a good enough reason for most people to remain in a marriage that would otherwise end in divorce. If people REALLY want to get divorced, then they will, no matter how much paperwork is involved. Women who have changed their names get divorced every single day. Many keep their husbands name and some may change it back. Yes, for a female doctor this may be more of a hassle if she changed her name, but I believe many female doctors keep their maiden names professionally more often for the reasons cited earlier in this thread (married after boards, professional recognition, paperwork hassles to change to a married name, anonymity from patients socially, etc.) rather than because they anticipate an easier divorce.

 

[OzDDS]

So which is it??? Given your previous posts, I sincerely don't think you believe in your first option..

Yes, I would (personally) prefer if my future wife took my last name. (I would bet the majority of men would >60%).
Yes, I would be open minded to the idea of compromise.. and would "consider" a new family name considering we would be creating a "new family".
Yes, I would not like it if my wife wanted to have a different "family name" to me if I were marrying her.

How is this hard to understand?

Indeed, you have tried to repeatedly tell everyone that you think it is perfectly acceptable for women to take on professional careers, CONDITIONAL upon its subserviance to the husband's, and that her principle obligations should be to home-making and child-rearing...

Is she to gather that in her choosing to be devoted to her career, she becomes less attractive to gentlemen as yourself? That she should be prepared to place her career secondary to her husbands?

Well.. I would have to say it depends on what she is willing to sacrifice to be honest.

Marriage, children, career.. these are all commitments. I have repeated many times that I think women can do just as good of a job as men can and sometimes better.

I'm simply saying.. that you can only commit yourself to so many things before something has to give. We're not supermen/women.

If her husband is a stay at home dad and she works 90hr work weeks in the ER then great.. at least the kids have someone taking care of them, and if that works for them. More power to you.

But, if both her and her husband work 90 hr work weeks and she wants to commit to a marriage and have kids.. well I have yet to meet anyone who can do that with out either sacrificing their career to go part time at least.. or sacrificing being a good parent and just ditching the kids off to a nanny 5-6-7 days a week and seeing them for 30 min during dinner a few nights a week and saying hello in passing.

You can't do it all.. no one can.

At some point you have to choose what's more important.

for the 100th time.. I think women make great docs! I am supporting the OP and her "choice" to focus on her career.

But I would hope.. that if she made another "choice" to also be a wife and mother. That she would value her family more than her job!

Is that such a crazy outrageous statement?

To be honest, if you or anyone else actually recommended that she throw her husband and children to the wayside and ran steadfast towards her career and said, "Fu*k it.. They’ll catch up. My job is more important"... Then I'd have to call you the crazy one.

 

[SaraL124]

A full time job is 40-50 hours a week, not 90+. I know doctors work very hard and extremely long hours, but not all docs have to work 90+ hours a week to be outstanding physicians. This is often why you see women doctors opting into specialties that have traditionally good lifestyles with not a lot of call, long hours in sugery, etc. Personally, my mother is a lawyer who worked 40-50 hours a week. Most of my friends mothers growing up were professionals who worked similar hours. Of the couples who were in my parents generation (the first to really consider keeping maiden names, and work full time outside the home) none divorced and all of the children (now adults) in my peer group are normal, well-adjusted people. All of our mothers were career driven, yes, but they put family first by choosing careers that would allow them to spend the maximal amount of time with family while still furthering their professional goals. So, maybe a mother and father who work 90+ hours/week would want to reconsider their lifestyle, but when you have two parents each working 40-50 (or one who works 90, and the other who works 40-50) family life definitely works.

 

[OzDDS]

not all docs have to work 90+ hours a week to be outstanding physicians. This is often why you see women doctors opting into specialties that have traditionally good lifestyles with not a lot of call, long hours in sugery, etc. All of our mothers were career driven, yes, but they put family first by choosing careers that would allow them to spend the maximal amount of time with family while still furthering their professional goals. So, maybe a mother and father who work 90+ hours/week would want to reconsider their lifestyle, but when you have two parents each working 40-50 (or one who works 90, and the other who works 40-50) family life definitely works.

Which is exactly what I was implying when I said, "Not all professional women, if there was one out there that had a more flexible position, one who valued her family over her career, and one who would be willing to take my family name. Then I would be open to that."

For example: If your spouse was in rads and could take call at home, or family practice and had office hours.. etc.

 

[cowbell]

Hi, let me give you a distilled outline of your entry...

Well.. I would have to say it depends on what she is willing to sacrifice to be honest...

I'm simply saying.. that you can only commit yourself to so many things before something has to give. We're not supermen/women.

You can't do it all.. no one can.

At some point you have to choose what's more important.

But I would hope.. that if she made another "choice" to also be a wife and mother. That she would value her family more than her job!

Is that such a crazy outrageous statement?

You are only confirming EVERYTHING that I said about your viewpoint.

Your arguments are entirely one-sided. Look carefully at your own language. Why is it that SHE should "SACRIFICE" for family and children? Why is it your assumption that the MOTHER would be neglectful due to her career? In my experience, it is more often the crime of FATHERS to ignore their families for ambition. When are you going to learn that the responsibilities of family and children are equally on the shoulders of BOTH parents? The only role that is strictly womens' territory is giving birth (and breast-feeding if she chooses). Earning money is not implicitly the job of the father. Marriage is about partnership, respect, and teamwork. However it is that a given family decides to provide the resources for their children is up to them, so long as they both provide a loving and nuturing environment. In all of your ranting and raving, you have yet to mention the commitment and sacrifice that the father must ultimately uphold. Mind you, making money is easy. It's everything else that takes effort. I have the immense privilege of being married to the most amazing woman, and I recollect my vow to her...

"in taking the woman whom you hold by the right hand to be your lawful and wedded wife, I require you to promise to love and cherish her, to honor and sustain her, in sickness and in health, in poverty as in wealth, in bad that may darken your days, in the good that may lighten your ways, and to be true to her in all things until death alone shall part you. Do you so promise?"

The language is unambiguous and selfless. I do not call upon her to sacrifice for me; it's the other way around. I think it is the inability of modern MEN to recognize this that has led to so many unhappy marriages (and divorces). As you said, women are smart and capable. What intelligent person would enter a lifetime commitment into an unrespectful, subservient, and ultimately inequitable relationship?

To be honest, if you or anyone else actually recommended that she throw her husband and children to the wayside and ran steadfast towards her career and said, "Fu*k it.. They’ll catch up. My job is more important"... Then I'd have to call you the crazy one.

Who said anything of the sort? Straighten up kid! Listen to what I'm telling you!

 

[SaraL124]

^^ Well said, Cowbell! I agree wholeheartedly with you.

I know you agreed with me earlier OzDDS, but in making my most recent post, I felt I had to alert you to the fact that it's not an all or nothing decision to work outside the home. You keep mentioning these women who work outside the home who are completely career focused and do not care about their families, while their husband wants them to be home cooking a nice dinner to be ready at 7 when he walks in the door. Modern life does not work that way. There are always compromises. And men compromise too.

Like Cowbell said, marriage is a partnership in which both parties have to have equal stakes. The woman may give birth to the child, but if both parents are working and the kid gets sick at school, why should it be the automatic choice for the mother to cancel the rest of her patients/clients/whatever to go pick him up from school. Like marriage, parenting is also a team effort and requires compromise. If things like that are divided up between the parents, both can have meaningful careers and be sensitive, caring and present parents. I saw my own parents do it successfully (mother is a lawyer and father is a physician) and plan to do it that way for my own family.
My husband knows that since I plan to work outside the home (other than while on maternity leave) he should choose a specialty that while fulfilling for himself professionally will also allow him to be a present part of our eventual family. I think most intelligent men who are married to intelligent women choose to make these decisions together so they can have both a family life and a fulfilling career for whichever or both partners that want it.

 

[caroladybelle]

Well.. I would have to say it depends on what she is willing to sacrifice to be honest.

But, if both her and her husband work 90 hr work weeks and she wants to commit to a marriage and have kids.. well I have yet to meet anyone who can do that with out either sacrificing their career to go part time at least.. or sacrificing being a good parent and just ditching the kids off to a nanny 5-6-7 days a week and seeing them for 30 min during dinner a few nights a week and saying hello in passing.

You can't do it all.. no one can.

At some point you have to choose what's more important.

But I would hope.. that if she made another "choice" to also be a wife and mother. That she would value her family more than her job!

Is that such a crazy outrageous statement?

To be honest, if you or anyone else actually recommended that she throw her husband and children to the wayside and ran steadfast towards her career and said, "Fu*k it.. They’ll catch up. My job is more important"... Then I'd have to call you the crazy one.

Listen to yourself and swap the genders in some of your statements.

The father needs to see his kids more than 30 minutes in passing at a time. Yet , you do not suggest that both "partners" in this marriage cut their hours to do their mutual duty as parents.

I would hope that if HE made the choice to be a HUSBAND and FATHER, that he would value his family more than a job, and make the sacrifices necessary.

It depends on what HE wants to sacrifice.

and finally:
To be honest, if someone recommended that HE throw HIS WIFE and CHILDREN to the wayside, and ran steadfast to HIS career, saying blank it, They can catch up...my job is more important...Yes, they are crazy

.....but there are large numbers of men that are doing just that as a matter of routine.

 

[caroladybelle]

It is a proven fact that those who get pre-nups have a higher divorce rate than those who dont. Because it makes it legally easier to separate... the same could be argued for "not changing your name". Just a thought..

Anyone else agree with this theory?

While you may have hard data on the prenups, where is that data on the"not changing the last name".

I would presume that you have data on that, before espousing such a theoory.

Stats on divorce can say a lot of things. Current stats also show that evangelical Christians have as high or a higher divorce rate than nonevangelicals. Yet one would think otherwise....that religious mores, traditional behaviors would lead them to have a lower rate.

From what I have seen in life, I have plenty of friends that are divorced where the wife took the husband's last name. Some of those wives (my mother included) kept the husband's name after the divorce, whether the divorce was amicable or not. Many were young when they married.

I have plenty of friends that are hyphenates or kept their last name....and they are all still married. As I am in my forties, that says a bit.

Most of those that kept their own names or hyphenated, married later in life. Therefore, they were more mature and that may have to do with the endurance of their marriages. Also, while it is fairly simple in your teens and twenties to change your name, it is substantially more expensive and difficult as an adult. I have licenses in 7 states, two certifications, plenty of credit (generally better than whomever I am dating) , some writing credits, etc. It would cost dearly and take a great deal of time to change all of that.

I would consider changing my name in marriage as I am not terribly fond of carrying my current/father's name. But it would take a great deal of work, and if a man made it a requirement, it would say something so unpleasant about his personality/possessiveness/lack of personal confidence/trust, that I would probably dump him over it.
_________________________________________________________________
If it is so easy to do and makes it "easier" to divorce, why do many divorced women keep the married name?

 

[Immuno-guy]

I know this might not be popular but...

A married couple should have the same name. My wife didn't take my name and for 5 years I didn't think twice about it. It didn't matter to me at all.

Now, we are thinking of having kids. She wants them to have her name. Or to hypenate. This is child abuse of the linguistic type. We only just got joint savings accounts.

Unless you have the same name and merge all your assets, you are simply two people living together (and breaking up is easy, tempting, and fast).

If you don't have the same name you are not a family. Simple.

I no longer want kids with her... to be honest.

 

[SaraL124]

^^ See, the fact that this has become so important to you to make you not want to have children with her says that your marriage wasn't strong enough to stand the fact that you have different names. Why should she change her name to yours to make it a family? If you want your family to have the same last name why don't you change yours? And if you argue against that, now can't you see your wife's point of view in wanting to not change her own name? A name does not a family make in any sense.

I know a woman who gave birth this morning to a son. She was married later in her 30s and this is her first child with her husband. She kept her name because she was established with it professionally and was older when she married. Her son has her last name. I find this a bit surprising, but honestly...I like it!

 

[iiiimonica]

this guy who shares my ups and downs? who helped me get back to school and realize my dreams? how dare you suggest that we are not a family. maybe you feel like you are not in a "real" family, but i feel (with every high and low) that i am in a family, a great one!


and what about children of divorce? i don't have my step dads last name - does that make us less of a family? adopted children, less of a family? gay couples in long term realationships, after sharing many years, are they less of a family?

a family is not just made of those who share your last name, a family is made of those who share your life.

I know this might not be popular but...

A married couple should have the same name. My wife didn't take my name and for 5 years I didn't think twice about it. It didn't matter to me at all.

Now, we are thinking of having kids. She wants them to have her name. Or to hypenate. This is child abuse of the linguistic type. We only just got joint savings accounts.

Unless you have the same name and merge all your assets, you are simply two people living together (and breaking up is easy, tempting, and fast).

If you don't have the same name you are not a family. Simple.

I no longer want kids with her... to be honest.

 

[cowbell]

Wow!!!
Awesome stuff SaraL124, caroladybelle, and iiiimonica!

I'd just like to comment on the following:

Stats on divorce can say a lot of things. Current stats also show that evangelical Christians have as high or a higher divorce rate than nonevangelicals. Yet one would think otherwise....that religious mores, traditional behaviors would lead them to have a lower rate.

What you say is entirely true. Christians have as high (and even higher in some cases) a divorce rate as secular couples. The interesting caveat is that Christian couples who practice regular prayer together have divorce rates < 1%!!! Now, I am not trying to sell Christianity, but there is a difference between doing the talk vs. the walk. The huge majority of americans believe in God (of one faith or another), but I would venture to say that few make a conscious effort to make a regular (daily) practice of moral behavior.

What is the difference between civil unions & domestic partnership versus marriage? I think marriage legally establishes kinship, and binds us to all of its rights and responsibilities. It means that married couples officially become RELATED to each other! Water becomes blood. From my viewpoint, family members are no less related just by virtue of different surnames. I don't call my sister any less of a sister just because she took on her husband's name. It's not just a matter of mindset, it's the LAW! People may choose their names for any number of personal or practical reasons, but it has NO impact on an absolute truth... married couples become one blood, related, and ultimately family.

 

[OzDDS]

Why should she change her name to yours to make it a family? If you want your family to have the same last name why don't you change yours? And if you argue against that, now can't you see your wife's point of view in wanting to not change her own name? A name does not a family make in any sense.

I know a woman who gave birth this morning to a son. She was married later in her 30s and this is her first child with her husband. She kept her name because she was established with it professionally and was older when she married. Her son has her last name. I find this a bit surprising, but honestly...I like it!

And what name does her "baby's daddy have?" they sound really unified as a family unit!!

 

[OzDDS]

Wow!!!
Awesome stuff SaraL124, caroladybelle, and iiiimonica!

I'd just like to comment on the following:


What you say is entirely true. Christians have as high (and even higher in some cases) a divorce rate as secular couples. The interesting caveat is that Christian couples who practice regular prayer together have divorce rates < 1%!!! Now, I am not trying to sell Christianity, but there is a difference between doing the talk vs. the walk. The huge majority of americans believe in God (of one faith or another), but I would venture to say that few make a conscious effort to make a regular (daily) practice of moral behavior.

What is the difference between civil unions & domestic partnership versus marriage? I think marriage legally establishes kinship, and binds us to all of its rights and responsibilities. It means that married couples officially become RELATED to each other! Water becomes blood. From my viewpoint, family members are no less related just by virtue of different surnames. I don't call my sister any less of a sister just because she took on her husband's name. It's not just a matter of mindset, it's the LAW! People may choose their names for any number of personal or practical reasons, but it has NO impact on an absolute truth... married couples become one blood, related, and ultimately family.