"National Average" Step 1

[notdeadyet]

Has anyone else ever noticed that when you discuss Step 1 results with medical schools, almost every single one says that they are "above the national average"?

Are there ten or so med schools that I haven't spoken to that have Step 1's so awful that the other 115 can say they're above average?

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[DrBowtie]

Has anyone else ever noticed that when you discuss Step 1 results with medical schools, almost every single one says that they are "above the national average"?

Are there ten or so med schools that I haven't spoken to that have Step 1's so awful that the other 115 can say they're above average?

I'm thinking that the average may have all of the FMGs/IMGs factored in. I may be wrong though.

 

[dannylee718]

That would be crazy if all the school got together and made a fake medical school in Mars or any other celestial body and have fake people enrolled in the school and report that they all got zeros just so they can say they are all above average...

Actually, I think its true. I saw a picture of it online once. It looks like an alien face... crazy.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

That would be crazy if all the school got together and made a fake medical school in Mars or any other celestial body and have fake people enrolled in the school and report that they all got zeros just so they can say they are all above average...

Actually, I think its true. I saw a picture of it online once. It looks like an alien face... crazy.

Your avatar FREAKS ME OUT.

And I like it.

 

[JackofAllTrades]

Has anyone else ever noticed that when you discuss Step 1 results with medical schools, almost every single one says that they are "above the national average"?

Are there ten or so med schools that I haven't spoken to that have Step 1's so awful that the other 115 can say they're above average?

Yeap, every single school that mentioned anything about USMLE said they are above average. Yeah, right.

Although it should be noted that FMGs and DOs who are hoping to land allopathic residencies also take the USMLE. Flame away, I don't care.

 

[notdeadyet]

Yeap, every single school that mentioned anything about USMLE said they are above average. Yeah, right.

Easy, Jack. I said "almost". And almost every school I spoke to about the Step 1 indicated that they were above national average.

If you've found schools that have mentioned that they were below national average, I'd be curious to hear it. Maybe some schools do, but none of the ones I spoke to.

 

[EBI831]

Although it should be noted that FMGs and DOs who are hoping to land allopathic residencies also take the USMLE. Flame away, I don't care.

hmm i don't think its the FMGs and DOs because i would think coming from where they are u'd have to have a higher Step 1 to offset medical training and prove ur good enough for the same residency spots as the others. i think a low Step 1 would do nothing for these candidates.

 

[dutchman]

Yeap, every single school that mentioned anything about USMLE said they are above average. Yeah, right.

Although it should be noted that FMGs and DOs who are hoping to land allopathic residencies also take the USMLE. Flame away, I don't care.

Besides your avatar, I don't see any flaming going on here

 

[DrBowtie]

hmm i don't think its the FMGs and DOs because i would think coming from where they are u'd have to have a higher Step 1 to offset medical training and prove ur good enough for the same residency spots as the others. i think a low Step 1 would do nothing for these candidates.

It would do nothing for them, but they still took it and it still counts in the stats.

 

[Uncle Izzy]

As mentioned before, you definitely need to factor in all of the FMG/IMGs. The average for the vast majority of med schools is definitely above the mean of 215. With that said, a 215 on Step 1 is not a very good score, in fact, it's mediocre at best.

If you want to be competitive in competitive specialties or competitive for top spots in less competitive specialties, you want to be AT LEAST one standard deviation above the mean (i.e. 230).

Now, that's not to say that you can't get a competitive residency spot with a 215, you're just gonna have to bust your hump for great recs, research, and grades.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

Yeap, every single school that mentioned anything about USMLE said they are above average. Yeah, right.

Although it should be noted that FMGs and DOs who are hoping to land allopathic residencies also take the USMLE. Flame away, I don't care.

In 2004 the average pass rate for allo = 91%. The average for osteo = 69%, and the average for FMG = 58%. I would imagine there is a similar pattern along the entire length of the score curve. Considering there are more FMGs + osteos than allos taking the exam, it's entirely possible that every single US allo school really does have a higher average than the reported Step I average (around 218). You'll also hear every single school report their students/grads impress the **** out of their preceptors at away rotations and such, which is an entirely subjective and worthless little factoid they like to throw at you. Meh, whatever, it's kinda like us describing our 2.5 hours of volunteering at the soup kitchen like it completely revolutionized our view of the world.

 

[Darksmurf]

Has anyone else ever noticed that when you discuss Step 1 results with medical schools, almost every single one says that they are "above the national average"?

Are there ten or so med schools that I haven't spoken to that have Step 1's so awful that the other 115 can say they're above average?

There are 100+ medical schools in the US. It makes sense that at least about half would be 'above average', no? (Above the median would be more descriptive in this sense, but I think with the large and relatively homogenous sample size it still holds true.) Have you spoken to at least 60 schools, all of which claim to be above average, or have you only spoken to 20 schools, all in the top 40 of the US News rankings?

Plus, no school is going to say that they are below average. They will just not mention it. And if asked, they will probably skirt the issue by saying something about their one outlying high score.

 

[Tired Pigeon]

I can't imagine a school that was below the national average actually highlighting that fact....

 

[deleted128318]

If you've found schools that have mentioned that they were below national average, I'd be curious to hear it. Maybe some schools do, but none of the ones I spoke to.

At my BU interview they used the whole "above average pass rate" tactic, which to me says little about the schools performance. A school could have a 95% pass rate with a class average of 186 or 250.

 

[JackofAllTrades]

Easy, Jack. I said "almost". And almost every school I spoke to about the Step 1 indicated that they were above national average.

If you've found schools that have mentioned that they were below national average, I'd be curious to hear it. Maybe some schools do, but none of the ones I spoke to.

Hey sorry, I worded that funny. I was trying to agree with you...Every school I talked to DID say that they were above average.

 

[notdeadyet]

At my BU interview they used the whole "above average pass rate" tactic, which to me says little about the schools performance. A school could have a 95% pass rate with a class average of 186 or 250.

This is true. I suppose a warning sign that a school is below the national average would be when they start talking about how many pass the exam.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

hmm i don't think its the FMGs and DOs because i would think coming from where they are u'd have to have a higher Step 1 to offset medical training and prove ur good enough for the same residency spots as the others. i think a low Step 1 would do nothing for these candidates.

http://www.usmle.org/scores/2005perf.htm

the percentage passing the USMLE for DOs is far less than for MDs. However, there are far far less DOs taking the USMLE as compared to MDs.

 

[future_dr_house]

One of my interviews was at Texas Tech which I know to be less than the national average. At the interviews they told us "about national average." So I assume there's some word choices going on. "About nat. avg" means it's probably a little below (maybe as much as 5 points?). "Above nat avg" probably means negligibly higher than the nat. avg.

It's all worthless IMO. Look at the resources offered for step I as well as how much time allotted to study for the test. Baylor has killer averages but their preclinical lasts 1.5 years. They have a long time to study for the step. Univ of South Florida usually has the highest average of any public school, who knows what crack their on, but it's working.

 

[melissainsd]

At OHSU they told me they scored "about the national average". It made my tummy hurt.

 

[notdeadyet]

Hey sorry, I worded that funny. I was trying to agree with you...Every school I talked to DID say that they were above average.

Ah. No sweat. I read your tone wrong. I tend to do that.

 

[AnEyeLikeMars]

My tour guide at Wake Forest said their board scores were below average. He also made the point that the people who scored 200 would have scored the same no matter where they went to school, as would the people who scored 250. The person who gave the presentation didn't mention their board scores at all.

 

[MrBurns10]

Univ of South Florida usually has the highest average of any public school, who knows what crack their on, but it's working.

You're referring to University of Florida (USF is different). I got the impression that they seriously "teach to the boards," which is actually kind of funny. Every med student or pre-med I've talked to says this like it's a bad thing, but if step 1 is the most important factor in your residency application, maybe teaching to the boards isn't such a bad idea...

 

[NonTradMed]

Schools which have below average board scores will probably just say that they are 'about average', or 'have competitive scores' or something to that affect. Schools which have a smidgen above average scores will say they are 'above average'. Hence, interviewees are given the impression all schools do spectacular on the boards. FWIW, my school says we are 'above average' and gives us the actual score.

 

[future_dr_house]

You're referring to University of Florida (USF is different). I got the impression that they seriously "teach to the boards," which is actually kind of funny. Every med student or pre-med I've talked to says this like it's a bad thing, but if step 1 is the most important factor in your residency application, maybe teaching to the boards isn't such a bad idea...

Ah yes. Sorry about that.

If any of you want to check out UF, look at the attachment.

 

[NickRiviera]

 

[Critical Mass]

Your avatar FREAKS ME OUT.

And I like it.

Me too. I think about it when I'm trying to prolong my mating ritual. There is somebody else who uses the same avatar.

Reinforcing the belief that most schools are made up of a similar caliber of student and provide the same material to their student body, I think that all averages are going to be pretty similar among US allo's outside of the coveted top dawg schools that tend to attract the uber-competative genius types.

As an aside, all of my M1 classmates are rankied in the top half of the class.

 

[Adcadet]

Step 1 scores are highly correlated with MCAT scores. Perhaps score differences between schools, then, can be explained by differences in the student body as reflected by MCAT scores.

I wouldn't worry about USMLE Step 1 scores too much in looking at schools.

 

[GoLAClippers]

Is it true that people with low USMLE scores- <200 - end up doing OB-GYN, Family Med, and ER ?

 

[Law2Doc]

You're referring to University of Florida (USF is different). I got the impression that they seriously "teach to the boards," which is actually kind of funny. Every med student or pre-med I've talked to says this like it's a bad thing, but if step 1 is the most important factor in your residency application, maybe teaching to the boards isn't such a bad idea...

All schools I've ever talked to also indicated they had above average board scores. I think it's very common puffery used in the industry, since they know no one gets to see individual scores. Don't put any weight in this kind of statement. Similarly, good schools which don't do so well tend to talk about how they don't "teach to the boards", or claim that others do. This too is a myth -- all schools cover the subjects that are covered by Step 1. And all students study from the same First Aid and Q-bank study aids. In fact, the one group of schools that do actually "teach to the boards", the caribbean schools, as a group don't do nearly as well. The trick in this process is to learn to ignore all the fluff -- you will get some from every school.

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Is it true that people with low USMLE scores- <200 - end up doing OB-GYN, Family Med, and ER ?

Being that I actually want to do Emergency Medicine (EM, not ER, that's a TV show), I wish that were true! EM is not the hardest specialty to get into, but above average and getting harder.

 

[Dr. Will]

Is it true that people with low USMLE scores- <200 - end up doing OB-GYN, Family Med, and ER ?

With only 6 open spots in both EM (not ER, which is a room) and OB this year after the match, wouldn't really bet the farm on this.

 

[MrBurns10]

All schools I've ever talked to also indicated they had above average board scores. I think it's very common puffery used in the industry, since they know no one gets to see individual scores. Don't put any weight in this kind of statement. Similarly, good schools which don't do so well tend to talk about how they don't "teach to the boards", or claim that others do. This too is a myth -- all schools cover the subjects that are covered by Step 1. And all students study from the same First Aid and Q-bank study aids. In fact, the one group of schools that do actually "teach to the boards", the caribbean schools, as a group don't do nearly as well. The trick in this process is to learn to ignore all the fluff -- you will get some from every school.

Well, I think what they meant by "teach to the boards" (at least in regards to UF) was that all their tests were on computers and their test questions were in a similar format to ones that students will see on step 1. It was odd...they had all these graphs about how their avg USMLE score was higher than projected based on student MCAT scores, etc etc, so they have to be doing something right. They spent a good 20 minutes talking about it at the interview, which was weird. This was more the context of how I used the phrase, though I'm not sure if that's different from the way most people use it.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Is it true that people with low USMLE scores- <200 - end up doing OB-GYN, Family Med, and ER ?

I think Ob-Gyn would also be hard with sub-200 board scores. I doubt you'd get into EM with those numbers at all.

A few of the previous posters have hit the nail on the head. Almost every US MD school is "above avg" on Step1 b/c DOs and IMGs bring the average down.

 

[fusuke]

Meh, whatever, it's kinda like us describing our 2.5 hours of volunteering at the soup kitchen like it completely revolutionized our view of the world.

You mean to say that my 2.3257 hours at the soup kitchen were not all that I assumed it to be.

Man...has there been a grander illusion than this...I don't think so.

 

[dannylee718]

Me too. I think about it when I'm trying to prolong my mating ritual. There is somebody else who uses the same avatar.

Thats exactly how I'm gonna look when I gallop into my first day of school.

Yeah, supposedly somebody else does have it. And supposedly s/he had it before me. I got crapped on for that. too bad since I found this sucker online so s/he has no right to claim it has his/her own. (i like choosing smilies that have NOTHING to do with what I just said )

 

[mshheaddoc]

Just to throw in there, board scores aren't everything .... many people I know score average or about 200 and still ended up at great residencies ... its a piece of the puzzle but its not everything.

 

[SeventhSon]

did they say their "school average is above the average", or just that "they are above average"? I am sure there are plenty of students at each school that are above average; maybe that is who they are talking about. *puts on cynical hat*. Also depends what 10 schools you are interviewing at. If you are at harvard, ucsf, and stanford then they all are probably above average (although if i remember correctly, ucsf was like 2 points above average last year, hm).

Also, who are you asking? Many of the people doing med school interviews would have no idea, and could just be making *** up.

 

[keepdreaming]

The one school that told me they weren't "above the national average":
*drum roll please*



Temple.

When i asked they said they were 1 point below the average.

 

[notdeadyet]

The one school that told me they weren't "above the national average":
*drum roll please*



Temple.

Props to Temple. Honesty is a refreshing thing.

 

[weathertalk]

I think most of the med schools SDNers interview at are being truthful when they say they are "above the national average." This isn't a case of lake wobegon effect. Rather, applicants need to remember that only half the schools in the country are even ranked. A lot of SDNers interview only at only ranked schools, producing sampling bias.

 

[Oni]

The University of Hawaii has been hovering above and below the average from year to year.

 

[Law2Doc]

Well, I think what they meant by "teach to the boards" (at least in regards to UF) was that all their tests were on computers and their test questions were in a similar format to ones that students will see on step 1.

You will find that an ever increasing percentage of med schools will have tests on computers, and pretty much all schools strive to ask questions in some semblance of the format used by the USMLE.