Naturopaths Licensed?

[biogirl215]

I know naturopathy is generally considered to be pretty much "quack science" by most of health care community, but then why do some states license them as physicians and give them prescribing rights before psychologists, pharmacists, and even some nurses get them? How could they license them as physicians if there is only questionable science behind their training? Do naturopaths actually have legit medical training in their schools?

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[Tired]

You should read Panda's blog (I wonder if he minds that I've been quoting him like crazy for the last week?).

From pandabearmd.com:

"There are two kinds of Naturopaths, the highly educated kind with a quasi-legitimate degree granted by one of a handful of Schools of Naturopathy and the free-lancer with no formal training except perhaps an easy to obtain mail-order degree. There’s not really a dime’s worth of difference between the the two and discerning it is a little like trying to differentiate a pickpocket and a burglar. Both are thieves, you understand, but one works harder at it.

At the heart of Naturopthy is a flawed belief in the healing power of nature. That nature, red in tooth and claw, also includes deadly natural pathogens, horrific genetic mutations, and single-minded predators (both human and otherwise) seems to have escaped consideration. It’s a Bambi-centric weltanschung to say the least and chief among it’s tenets is a reliance on medicinal botanicals which, as they are untainted by the rapacious talons of the Devil (man) are thought to be more effective in restoring some kind of natural order to the body.

Because they’re natural, you see. Nature good. Man bad.

While there is no dobt that many plants have medicinal properties, this doesn’t mean that plants make good medicines. This should be obvious to anybody who has studied even a little pharmacology. You can take some random preparation of weeds for a condition but why not take a cheaper preparation of a chemical compound with better effects and get the benefit of quality control? The next obvious question is why otherwise cynical people who discount many of the claims of the pharmaceutical industry (and I’m one of those cynics, by the way) and view Medical Doctors with dark suspicion are totally credulous when it comes to advice from someone who prescribes them misletoe for their hypertension and are completely trusting of Steve, the nice Sociology major working at the local holistic food store, when he gives medicinal advice about organic dietary supplements.

It is also true that the body has “healing powers.” Of course it does. But again, Naturopathic healing operates on the fringes, just staying on the safe side of subjective complaints and never bringing it’s natural goodness to bear on objectively bad diseases which would require some sort of unequivocal treatment."

 

[biogirl215]

I understand that, but why are naturopaths still given physician licensure/RXP in light of the lack of scientific evidence behind the profession?

 

[Tired]

Sorry, misunderstood your question.

In all honesty, I was shocked that any state would be stupid enough to give naturopaths access to even a limited formulary. But a brief search on google finds multiple states that give them this access. Who knew?

 

[southerndoc]

I understand that, but why are naturopaths still given physician licensure/RXP in light of the lack of scientific evidence behind the profession?

I think Connecticut licenses them just so they can collect $500/yr. Connecticut licenses everything, including sewage treatment plant workers, asbestos removers, accupunturists, etc. I think we have a dedicated license to walk your dog in a public park, with a special permit needed if you plan to do it on Sundays.

 

[Josh L.Ac.]

You should read Panda's blog (I wonder if he minds that I've been quoting him like crazy for the last week?).

From pandabearmd.com:

"There are two kinds of Naturopaths, the highly educated kind with a quasi-legitimate degree granted by one of a handful of Schools of Naturopathy and the free-lancer with no formal training except perhaps an easy to obtain mail-order degree. There’s not really a dime’s worth of difference between the the two and discerning it is a little like trying to differentiate a pickpocket and a burglar. Both are thieves, you understand, but one works harder at it.

Yeah, like Panda would actually know the difference. If he spent more time learning about all the logical fallacies he spews and less worrying about what other people are doing...and then blogging about it...then the world would be a better place, the democrats would have a candidate worth electing, and climate change would get better.


But instead we'll have the same old tired arguments based off speculation and rhetoric.


You you really want to know why ND's are considered PCP's in states like Washington, with their questionable education and [nearly] complete lack of residency?

Money.

Plus the PC belief that when things are different, they cannot be qualitatively compared. Not to mention that those that tend to see ND's are from that patient population that usually tries live healthy, tries to eliminate risk factors, tries to be compliant, and would probably be relatively healthy without intervention.

 

[Tired]

Yeah, like Panda would actually know the difference. If he spent more time learning about all the logical fallacies he spews and less worrying about what other people are doing...and then blogging about it...then the world would be a better place, the democrats would have a candidate worth electing, and climate change would get better.


But instead we'll have the same old tired arguments based off speculation and rhetoric.


You you really want to know why ND's are considered PCP's in states like Washington, with their questionable education and [nearly] complete lack of residency?

Money.

Plus the PC belief that when things are different, they cannot be qualitatively compared. Not to mention that those that tend to see ND's are from that patient population that usually tries live healthy, tries to eliminate risk factors, tries to be compliant, and would probably be relatively healthy without intervention.

So you pretty much agree with him, you just think he's a tool?

 

[Josh L.Ac.]

So you pretty much agree with him, you just think he's a tool?

Yeah, it's sort of a closet love-loathe type thing.





Actually I don't think he is a tool at all, rather the opposite. But in the past he has made claims based purely off conjecture or that were logical fallacies, which tended to mirror the thinking patterns of those he mocked. Even after it was pointed out to him what he was doing, he still refused to change his position.

But from the part of his blog that you quoted, it seems he does indeed incorporate previous rebuttals into his current arguments...which is part of the reason I responded the way I did. I repeated my previous statements on this topic, which somewhat parallel what he said [minus the "they are all thieves and there is no difference between mail-order NDs and those that pay outrageous amounts of money to become a university-trained ND" arguments]...because I thought it was funny.

Sigh.