navigating internship/postdoc with an attorney partner

[quietmind]

I'm a clinical psych PhD student applying to internship this fall. My partner is an attorney, and figuring out how to navigate internship/postdoc while (ideally) having him be able to move with me and also work is proving to be a bit of a headache. Because of the specific type of track I'm interested in, there aren't good options for me in the city or even state that we currently live in, which probably means moving at least once. Is there anyone here who has any advice about navigating this from their own experience, or perhaps the experiences of colleagues of yours? I will likely be pursuing a research-oriented postdoc after internship, so advice of that nature is particularly helpful, but any and all ideas are appreciated.

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[Kadhir]

I don't know if this will help but FWIW... I had a colleague go through a very similar (actually, the same) situation. Partner, an attorney. The person needed a specific internship track. They started talking to internship sites early (through research connections at conferences) and tried to investigate opportunities for their partner through the programs (e.g., husbands or wives of faculty members). I don't know if anything actually materialized from these discussions, but my colleague did end up at one of these sites. They moved together, colleague ultimately pursued a research post doc (same site) and partner got barred in that state. There was an uncertain period involving looking for work and obviously studying, but it paid off. Both doing well now.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

Had to do long distance (500 plus miles) for internship year and fellowship year. Was rough, but made it work.

 

[futurehopefully]

My SO and I did long distance throughout grad school since he was in law school for the majority of it and got a job in our home state. We decided to do another year of long distance during my internship. When it came time for postdoc applications for research positions, I looked for those that were around 3 years, so he could move, take the bar exam in the new state, and get more settled in his career. I just started postdoc, and he's been looking for a job here for the past 7 months...The only advice I have is to plan a ranking of postdoc sites together in advance of receiving any offers.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Also, depending on your specialty, post-doc may or may not be the norm/may not be the standard/required. Without knowing your 'track' it's hard to offer concrete advice here. Although it becomes a presumed typical path, many (most perhaps? I'm not sure exactly on numbers) don't go into post docs and opt instead for the job market (e.g., VA GS-11 openings other other jobs for non-licensed/license eligible folks). It's part of the reason why 5-6 is a sufficient number of post doc applications for most folks.

 

[foreverbull]

Also, depending on your specialty, post-doc may or may not be the norm/may not be the standard/required. Without knowing your 'track' it's hard to offer concrete advice here. Although it becomes a presumed typical path, many (most perhaps? I'm not sure exactly on numbers) don't go into post docs and opt instead for the job market (e.g., VA GS-11 openings other other jobs for non-licensed/license eligible folks). It's part of the reason why 5-6 is a sufficient number of post doc applications for most folks.

Sites will be more competitive in states that require postdoc hours by default if most postdoc sites are in larger metro areas with graduate schools and/or limited official postdoc opportunities. In my opinion, if applying in states like this (CA, NY, etc.) 5-6 is not enough for clinical positions, especially if you don’t have connections (your TD knows their TD personally, etc.) at the sites you’re applying to. Eight apps was not a sufficient number for me without connections and in a generalist track, because I applied to sites that many others were also vying for. Many sites folks apply to are only looking for one or two postdocs at most, unless it’s a VA or large hospital system, so chances of landing a postdoc will really depend on the area’s competition and one’s connections to the site (I can’t stress enough how important networking becomes on internship and beyond, no matter what track you’re in).

I can’t speak to research positions, though. Could be an entirely different experience.

 

[psychrat]

I did long distance during my PhD program and then again on postdoc. It made no sense to have my now husband move and find a job for what I knew would be a temporary time. It was hard, but unfortunately, the norm in a field in which we make sacrifices for good training.

 

[Justanothergrad]

Sites will be more competitive in states that require postdoc hours by default if most postdoc sites are in larger metro areas with graduate schools and/or limited official postdoc opportunities. In my opinion, if applying in states like this (CA, NY, etc.) 5-6 is not enough for clinical positions, especially if you don’t have connections (your TD knows their TD personally, etc.) at the sites you’re applying to. Eight apps was not a sufficient number for me without connections and in a generalist track, because I applied to sites that many others were also vying for. Many sites folks apply to are only looking for one or two postdocs at most, unless it’s a VA or large hospital system, so chances of landing a postdoc will really depend on the area’s competition and one’s connections to the site (I can’t stress enough how important networking becomes on internship and beyond, no matter what track you’re in).

I can’t speak to research positions, though. Could be an entirely different experience.

I think its safe to say that mileage may vary by person/region/year, but I've seen folks be very successful at competitive clinical sites with 5-6. I had a few friends who applied to internship numbers and get overwhelmed with interviews/offers mostly because the applicant numbers are just lower (in general) across the country. NY/CA/high population centers may be different in general; however, I've seen folks have the same luck in those locations for a variety of top-notch clinical and research gigs. That said, I'm definitely more familiar with strong research placements since that's the route most of my friends have gone (Emory, Charleston, Boston PTSD, Hopkins, etc). What is your take on what is a typical/advisable number of applications for purely clinical positions across the country?

 

[fallen625]

The way we are handling it is moving to the NYC metro area. It's a good place for husband to find jobs (he works in finance), and there ~20 sites in the metro area that seem decent enough fits for me to apply to. Not sure if it will work out, but just wanted to share what we are doing. Also the benefit it is there are a ton of postdocs in a large metro area too, so likely wont have to move again. The downside is NYC is super expensive and competitive and you have to be ok with living there (we are). I also have no idea if it will work out, but it seemed like the best solution to us.

I would try to only apply to cities where your husband can easily get a job at. And apply to places where you could stay there for postdocs (and further hopefully).

 

[foreverbull]

What is your take on what is a typical/advisable number of applications for purely clinical positions across the country?

It's hard to say. I knew someone who applied to one postdoc site and got it, and it was a case of X's training director knew so-and-so training director across the country at the site X was encouraged to apply to.
I should have mentioned I geographically limited myself to one state (a few metro areas; highly-saturated state), plus no connections, plus sites were only looking for one postdoc. In retrospect, I probably should've applied to 12+ sites in the state if geographically limited, no connections, and competitive (basically as if this were internship). If not geographically limited, not seeking sites with high application volume, and/or has connections to some of the sites applying to, the number you mentioned...5 or 6, may be sufficient.