Navy / Air Force Scholarships?

[oscar_meyer]

I am wondering if there are any students participating in the scholarships offered by the Navy or the Air Force. On paper, the deal sounds good...4 years of paid medical education and a monthly stipend in exchange for 4 years of active duty. I am seriously considering both options, but have not heard many opinions about each scholarship. Is the paid medical tuition worth the obligation after residency? The opinions from individuals who received scholarships from the military is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

O

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[bustinbooty]

This topic has been talked about so many times. All the information you need is contained within previous posts. Just do a search for "HPSP" and you will find enough info for a lifetime. Print it all out and spend a day on the crapper with it.

 

[Hawk]

Oscar_Meyer,

I just did my interview with a Captain in the Air Force, it does seem alright, there are always pros and cons to everything. I am considering it just because I think it would be beneficial for my family and I feel like I wouldn't mind serving my country a little. I have heard a lot of good things about the airforce. Here is a great link that really explains it well and it is non-biased. Just a good explanation of what can happen.
<a href="http://lukeballard.tripod.com/HPSP.html" target="_blank">http://lukeballard.tripod.com/HPSP.html</a>

Go to that link and print it out. I felt like it explained it really well. Good luck in your decision.

 

[gasrx]

I know 2 classmates that are doing the airforce scholarship. Both wanted to do anesthesia. The did not match for anesthesia through the airforce. Now they either have to switch medical fields that the airforce approves or serve 4 years then do their residency after. That sucks big time.

 

[oscar_meyer]

Thanks for all the replies. I have a lot to think about. Good luck with the scholarship Hawk!

Thanks all...O

 

[Hawk]

Originally posted by gasrx:
•I know 2 classmates that are doing the airforce scholarship. Both wanted to do anesthesia. The did not match for anesthesia through the airforce. Now they either have to switch medical fields that the airforce approves or serve 4 years then do their residency after. That sucks big time.•••

This does seem a bit harsh, but at the same time, do we know how they did in medical school, would they have placed if they were not on the scholarship. Before I would seriously base any of my assumptions on what you say I would really have to know how they did in school. I mean it makes sense as if they were not qualified that they wouldn't get the match. I don't know. It is really a hard thing to decide, I don't mean to be down on what you are saying, I am just being skeptical of boths side of the situation until I really have to make a decision. Thanks for posting that. It all helps. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

 

[gasrx]

I don't really know how the air force does their match. All I know form talking to them is that they were not selected for anesthesia through the air force. They did fine in medical school, and got plenty of anesthesia interviews (including Yale anesthesia). It just sucks that the air force can tell you what medical field you can pursue. Or you serve your 4 years then do the residency of your choice.

 

[Maximus]

I'd have to agree with my friend, Hawk. From what I have heard, the Military makes you do their match, but only requires that you do a residency through them IF you don't match with any of your selections. This opens you up to the civilian world. Were your friends actually forced into a different residency selection, or did they just not match in a military anesthesia residency? I thought the military would not force you into a specialty, but could preclude you from doing the Military residency you wanted. I could be wrong though. Anyone know the real story?

 

[doatc]

This is how the Army works. In your fourth year you apply for FYGME(first year graduate education)AKA internship training. The Match for these positions is held in late November of each year. You are required to select 5 training sites with the residency program you wish to enter at the PGY 2 level. If you maych to the FYGME, then the next step is to apply for the PGY2 slot early in you internship year. Most residencies accept an equal number of FYGME to PGY2 slots therefore the application for the PGY2 slot is merely a formality. More competitive residiencies such as Ortho do not select equal numbers of FYGME/PGY2 slots therefore there are no guaranrties that you will continue on to PGY2. If you do not match to the FYGME slot you want the Army may grant you a deferrment to complete a civilian residency in that field. The Army does reserve the right to place you in a Transitional year internship for one year instead of deferring you outright. If that is the case then in the beginning of your intership year you will apply for a PGY2 residency slot. If you do not match, then they can again offer you a deferment or make you do a GMO (general medical officer)tour for 2 years. After the 2 years of GMO you will again apply for a residency PGY2 slot. If you do not match again, then you would complete another GMO tour. At the end of that tour you have now paid your 4 year debt and can get out of the Military or you can once again apply for a Military PGY2 slot.

I am not sure about the detail for Navy and Airforce, but I know that it is very similar.

Bill
M4 CCOM

 

[PainMan]

When you apply for FYGME, do they know already what residency you are going to apply for? Meaning, if there are 15 total slots for ALL residencies at a paticular location do they accept you for FYGME based on the residency you want or do you interview/compete once you are on site?

 

[Maximus]

Thanks for the info, doatc!!

 

[doatc]

When you apply for Army FYGME you fill out a form called the "preference priority sheet." This is where you will request your five site selections in order of preference. You also state your intended are of specialization ie. Family Practice. This is how they know what field you want to train in.

Bill
M4 CCOM

 

[Maximus]

Just a question for you (doatc)...how has it been keeping up on your CEU's for your ATC throughout Med school? Are you letting your certification go dormant with the addition of your DO?

Just questions...

 

[doatc]

Just submit your medical school transcript. Most courses such as: Anatomy, Physiology, Pharmacology, etc can qualify for CEUs. I have not had any problems. Just be sure to renew your CPR and First Aid certifications. I let my liscence go dormant in the State of Illinois becasue it cost like $200/yr to renew.

Hope this answers your question.

Bill
M4 CCOM

 

[Maximus]

Thanks for the info... What are your specialty plans?

 

[doatc]

Maximus,

I have matched at Walter Reed Army Medical Center for a preliminary (tracking) intership in Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation. I originally was an Ortho gunner but after a lot of thought and re-thinking of my family priorities, I chose PM&R.

Bill
M4 CCOM

 

[Maximus]

That sounds great! I hear you...most people I know with an atc background originally plan on ortho. The affect it has on family is a real concern though. PM&R is a great route to go...one of the few if you want to be particularly active in the Sports Med setting. Are you planning on retaining a sports focus, or otherwise?

Congrats on Walter Reed...I hear only positive things about it.

 

[doatc]

Maximus,

One thing you will find on any rotation that is "sports medicine" in nature is that your knowledge base will far exceed most of the residents and even doctors you work with. Doctors who have done fellowships in Sports Medicine only get a year of training. The typical Athletic Trainer has at least 4 years to get basic certification. Ortho sports med guys will be good with the medical aspect of diagnosis and treatment, but may lack in the total care of the athlete. They are great a fixing the injured area but lack in the emotional and psychological support athletes need.

Family med docs that do sports med fellowship are a little better at the pyschologial side but lack in the diagnosis and treatment areas. Of course I am referring to those docs who are fresh out of fellowship.

I plan on developing a practice which focuses on the spine and sports medicine. I plan on being active with the new interventional procedures dealing with spine dysfunction and pain. Of course being a DO, manipulation will be a substantial part of my practice.

Bill
M4 CCOM

 

[dksf]

doatc-
I will be going to UHS beginning this fall. I just joined the Army/HPSP. I am completing my M.S. in Ex. Phys. and have worked in a PM&R clinic for a couple of summers. I, too, would like to get into a PM&R residency. Is this difficult? Can I do any ADT at Walter Reed? I'd be interested to hear your advice. THANKS!

 

[doatc]

dksf,

Here is the scoop on Army PM&R. The Army only has one residency program in PM&R and it is at Walter Reed. There are 3 slots total but only two are designated for the Army. I am sure you have read my earlier post about the FYGME match, so I won't talk about that again. Generally to complete a PM&R residency it is a total of one year of prelimenary medicine internship plus three years of residency.

The Walter Reed program technically has 2 intership slots allocated to the PM&R residency. This almost guarantes you a slot to continue onto the PGY2 year if selected to one of these slots. I have know idea how many applicants there are for the 2 slots, but in general the Army applicants for residency, as a whole, mirror the larger civilian picture. What I mean by this is probably about the same percentage of applicants for the Army match will pick PM&R as in the civilian match. Lets say that about 4% of the graduating seniors attempt to match to PM&R. If that holds true for the military match then there should be about 12 applicants (@300x.04=12). This would mean that there would be 12 applciants for 2 slots. Don't let this discourage you because I have been told that some years they don't get any applicants.

My advice to you is to do a rotation at WRAMC and talk with the residency people while you are there. Let it be known early that you are interested. With your M.S. in Ex Phys and your background, you will be highly competitive.

When your are a fourth year med student, I will be a 4th year resident, so keep in touch. Networking definitely can't hurt. Drop me an e-mail if you want to continue off-line.

Bill
M4 CCOM

 

[Maximus]

doatc,

I hear you about the fellows in Sports Medicine. I definitely think you have an advantage having the ATC, and then the medical degree and fellowship training. If anything, you have a view that encompasses both the ortho, family, rehab, and emergency care...a multi-spectrum team physician.

I think in the case of a DO/MD, ATC you will have some one much more open minded to rehabilitative treatments, modalities, etc cause they will have first had experiencing and training in all. In that case they are truly an asset, and a jack-of-all-trades.

Coming from the ranks could even have an effect of making the physician a little more respectful of the trainers and their responsibilities.

It is good to see your vision, and know that others believe similarly. Good Luck!

 

[HPSP]

dksf,
You can do the ADT at Walter Reed, but you should be patient and try to make that ADT the one between your 3rd and 4th year. You can no longer do your all of your ADT's at the same location. So going during this time frame gives you a chance to sell your self to the chief just before you apply, then when they see your application they can put a person and face with the application.
SSG Gray

 

[doatc]

dksf,

HPSP is right. You should try and time yourself, but to be honest, I never rotated through Walter Reed. It wasn't by choice, I was victim of circumstance. When I tried to set up the rotation, the department person that was supposed to approve my rotation never responded to the education office. After some research into this problem, I found out that at the time I requested the rotation the PM&R department physicians were changing duty stations. In a nutshell, I got lost in the suffle.

I had three phone interviews with the residency director and department chair. I guess that was all they needed to make their decision. Even if you can't get out there to do a rotation, try and get out there to interview with the Intership program coordinator (technically that is what you are applying for). I also did not interview with the internship coordinator due to never being able to get in touch with the appropriate people to set up the interview.

You have to be persistent with the Army. Many of the people you are contacting are civilian employees and not the Docs directly. Sometimes messages seem to disaper or maybee they never get written down.

Bill
M4 CCOM

 

[dksf]

HPSP and doatc,
Thanks to you both for the information. That makes sense to time the ADT just right. Are the ADTs NORMALLY granted upon your request to go to a certain place? As you both mention, it seems to be "who knows you" that makes the most difference (assuming a competitive applicant) in the ARMY perhaps more so than in the civilian world?! Good luck to you both. let's keep in contact.

 

[erkin777]

HPSP,

How much does a military physician make, after residency, while fulfilling the payback period? Can you give a range of $'s. One Air Force recruiter told me $110 to $120. But that sounds too high.

 

[HPSP]

dksf,
It doesnt make the most difference, but it does somethime make a difference in both worlds.
erkin777, that is the high end possibility. The problem with ansering your question is that the total ammount of money made is based on specialty pays and rank. Some residencies are longer so you could possibly be a Major at the time of completion(say ortho res) or a CPT (say fam prac). Some specialties pay more in board cert bonus, etc.
The pay range would be from 70,000 to 110,000.