Need Advice for Admission, 3rd round re-applicant!

[WeCanDoIt123]

Hello all,

I am deciding whether or not to apply this application cycle; I have my entire application finished and was about to submit, but I was told applying a third time is usually a "make it or break it" sort of situation, and thus my application should be much better and different than my previous ones. I was a part of the University of the Pacific undergraduate pre-dental program, but did not gain admission when I applied during my junior and senior year of undergrad. My stats when I applied were as follows:

1. low gpa (overall: 3.1, science: 3.12) (DAT AA 24)
2. cheating incident in junior year where many members of a GE class would skip class and sign in each other for attendance points via clicker questions
3. many leadership / outreach / shadowing hours

The main difference between my 2 applications back then and now would be

1. graduating and obtaining a B.S. in biology
2. starting a 1 year M.S. program in the fall
3. more outreach hours (20) and working (at a dental clinic) hours (100)
4. 2 years time away from that incident (which I was told was a reason why I did not get admitted to UoP after I received an interview)

My question to you all would be this: should I apply this year, or wait to finish my masters program (where I can hopefully obtain a better GPA and time away from my misdemeanor) and then apply, so that my application is stronger? If I applied this year and didn't get in, would being a 4th year re-applicant look negatively on my application to the point where it would be better to just skip this years application and wait for the next?

I know its kind of a long post, but i just wanted to give as much info as I could about my situation. Thanks for any insight in advance. It means the world to me.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[OSUkid]

Three things:
1.Finish your maters showing devotion and maturity
2. Its not too advantageous to apply this time in the cycle, better to apply during early July.So next year duh.
3. Nice dat score

 

[lucky.gunner]

I would say you should apply for this year. It is still not too late for now if you already have your PS and recommendation letter. Very nice DAT !

 

[RuffDay]

Three things:
1.Finish your maters showing devotion and maturity
2. Its not too advantageous to apply this time in the cycle, better to apply during early July.So next year duh.
3. Nice dat score

Shouldn't it be okay that OP applies this cycle, and he can apply the next cycle if he doesn't get in. I understand that he may have a strong belief that the 3rd time is a make or break it, but I believe that he has a chance of an acceptance if he applies broadly. Applying at this time may make him have a slight disadvantage, but it won't be to the point where the school would not offer an interview. Right?
Is it because since his GPA is on the lower end, that he should apply a lot earlier or does this applies to all applicants?

Another reason why I think he should apply this year because we dunno what is going to happen all in one year. There can be a possibility that his grades will be worse than undergraduate or his overall GPA - we can really never know with endless different possibilities (e.g. a professor known for low exam scores, an uneventful incident, transition from undergraduate to graduate school)

 

[WeCanDoIt123]

@RuffDay thanks for the tips! Would you not recommend applying this year and next? Or does it not matter.
@lucky.gunner @RuffDay thanks for your insight guys! I'm definitely still leaning towards applying again this year; my entire app is already complete.

the reason why I am questioning whether or not to apply this cycle is because my adviser from my new masters program thinks it becomes harder to become accepted after your third try (schools begin to question your ability). If that is the case, I was thinking of applying to only a small handful (maybe 3-7) of schools so that if I am not admitted this cycle, it won't be my 3rd time for various of other schools. What do you guys think of that? Or would it be better to just cast a wide net consecutively each cycle?

tldr; does anyone know if applying more than three times has any downside?

 

[MolarBear93]

Three things:
1.Finish your maters showing devotion and maturity
2. Its not too advantageous to apply this time in the cycle, better to apply during early July.So next year duh.
3. Nice dat score

You have a lot of opinions for someone who hasn't even applied yet.

 

[OSUkid]

Shouldn't it be okay that OP applies this cycle, and he can apply the next cycle if he doesn't get in. I understand that he may have a strong belief that the 3rd time is a make or break it, but I believe that he has a chance of an acceptance if he applies broadly. Applying at this time may make him have a slight disadvantage, but it won't be to the point where the school would not offer an interview. Right?
Is it because since his GPA is on the lower end, that he should apply a lot earlier or does this applies to all applicants?

Another reason why I think he should apply this year because we dunno what is going to happen all in one year. There can be a possibility that his grades will be worse than undergraduate or his overall GPA - we can really never know with endless different possibilities (e.g. a professor known for low exam scores, an uneventful incident, transition from undergraduate to graduate school)

i said that so he brings his grades up, plus save some money to not apply this cycle. Plus I think he will have a solid application by next year no doubt . I just think he's putting himself for a disadvantage this late in the cycle. It's his life he can do whatever, maybe he can get a an interview it's on him.

 

[OSUkid]

You have a lot of opinions for someone who hasn't even applied yet.

 

[MolarBear93]

I understand your trying to be a wise guy, but that comment just made me even think more less of you. I'm not a scientist yet I know science. I haven't applied yet, but I know based my cumulative knowledge of SDN forums that he has a better shot next year. One does not need to apply to dental schools to know what stats or application he needs to get into schools.

According to your knowledge, everyone should apply to Harvard dental school during application cycle because according to you, prior information does not matter but once you apply everything just make sense magically.

Yes, part wise "guy."

But also because whether you come to find this out or not, applying can also involve guesswork, luck, and a pair of balls as one wise guy might say. Things that you may not be aware of and could detract from the validity of your apparent advice-giving nature. It's not all about the stats (albeit they're very important) and what everyone on a forum says you need to get in. Never at any point did I say that prior knowledge isn't helpful or that I didn't agree that he would have a better shot next cycle, so don't be so presumptuous. And it breaks my heart that you think "more less of me", it really

REALLY does.

 

[cacajuate]

I would have already applied (why have you waited this long to question anyways). If you dont get in this year, make sure you do awesome on masters and there would be a substantial change for the following year.

Im not sure how much merit I would put in the apply 3 time thing.

 

[ajj70]

@RuffDay thanks for the tips! Would you not recommend applying this year and next? Or does it not matter.
@lucky.gunner @RuffDay thanks for your insight guys! I'm definitely still leaning towards applying again this year; my entire app is already complete.

the reason why I am questioning whether or not to apply this cycle is because my adviser from my new masters program thinks it becomes harder to become accepted after your third try (schools begin to question your ability). If that is the case, I was thinking of applying to only a small handful (maybe 3-7) of schools so that if I am not admitted this cycle, it won't be my 3rd time for various of other schools. What do you guys think of that? Or would it be better to just cast a wide net consecutively each cycle?

tldr; does anyone know if applying more than three times has any downside?

I guess my take is if you are going to apply this year, don't waste a year of applying to only apply to a handful of schools. I'd apply to about 15-18 or so schools, give yourself a chance to get in somewhere and if that doesn't work out, do the masters program and apply next summer again. Then, if you don't get in after applying to a good number of schools next year, time to move on and find another career.

 

[OSUkid]

Yes, part wise "guy."

But also because whether you come to find this out or not, applying can also involve guesswork, luck, and a pair of balls as one wise guy might say. Things that you may not be aware of and could detract from the validity of your apparent advice-giving nature. It's not all about the stats (albeit they're very important) and what everyone on a forum says you need to get in. Never at any point did I say that prior knowledge isn't helpful or that I didn't agree that he would have a better shot next cycle, so don't be so presumptuous. And it breaks my heart that you think "more less of me", it really

REALLY does.

too late to apologize

 

[doc toothache]

One additional year away from your misadventure is not likely to make a world of difference. It is clear that your failure to gain acceptance to UOP, which values high DAT scores, had little to do with your low gpa. Seek guidance from the schools that turned you down the last go round.

 

[WeCanDoIt123]

One additional year away from your misadventure is not likely to make a world of difference. It is clear that your failure to gain acceptance to UOP, which values high DAT scores, had little to do with your low gpa. Seek guidance from the schools that turned you down the last go round.

Thanks for your input! I definitely agree with you, I called the school and they wanted more life experience and for me to reflect on mistake, which I have been trying to do with more volunteer and work hours. However, do you think applying this year would hurt my chances for next year?? If there's no harm id just apply both years, but if there is a significant disadvantage than I will just wait

 

[virtualmaster999]

Thanks for your input! I definitely agree with you, I called the school and they wanted more life experience and for me to reflect on mistake, which I have been trying to do with more volunteer and work hours. However, do you think applying this year would hurt my chances for next year?? If there's no harm id just apply both years, but if there is a significant disadvantage than I will just wait

But why waste your time and money if you could just apply once more? Look on your AADSAS application and ask yourself this: Did you put your 100% effort into this year, knowing fully that everything that is on your app will make ADCOMS know you're for them? That is how you will know if this cycle is for you or not.

I commend you for your hard work and effort in applying for dental school; your motivation and rigor will definitely let you go far! And I hope I'm not being too critical! I just wanted to give you my opinion, which is based off an admissions officer I personally spoke with recently. I wish everyone the best of luck, and I truly believe that anyone can get in...it's just are they ready NOW, you know?

Think about what you wish to do, and the long-term effect. Sometimes it's all about how you plan your strategy...best of luck to you

 

[DentalDoge]

There is almost no reason to not reapply. As long as you have made improvements.

The only time I would not advise reapplying is if you feel like your application is not ready (no improvements from previous year)

 

[RuffDay]

There is almost no reason to not reapply. As long as you have made improvements.

The only time I would not advise reapplying is if you feel like your application is not ready (no improvements from previous year)

What if you have no improvements in GPA, but an improvement in DAT and probably other activities?

 

[doc toothache]

Thanks for your input! I definitely agree with you, I called the school and they wanted more life experience and for me to reflect on mistake, which I have been trying to do with more volunteer and work hours. However, do you think applying this year would hurt my chances for next year?? If there's no harm id just apply both years, but if there is a significant disadvantage than I will just wait

"Damaged goods" comes more from your misdeeds than from your multiple re tries.

 

[OSUkid]

What if you have no improvements in GPA, but an improvement in DAT and probably other activities?

He has a 24 DAT so hes good . However is there not a DAT limit until scores become voided, I thought it was 2 years. IDK I guess not

 

[Pro-Dentite19]

He has a 24 DAT so hes good . However is there not a DAT limit until scores become voided, I thought it was 2 years. IDK I guess not

The problem is not his DAT scores, it is the academic integrity violation....Dentistry, like any other health care job is built around patient trust and ethics. I am not judging the OP; it sounds like a minor infraction to me and I am sure he has learned from the experience but if he is on the bubble that will always be a reason to choose someone else over him. On my interview day one full hour was devoted to an essay test and follow up discussion on ethics.

My only advice is to try to improve your GPA so that you are no longer a "bubble candidate". I am sure that you will always have to explain the cheating incident but if your grades are tremendous it might make it easier for you to get in.

 

[OSUkid]

The problem is not his DAT scores, it is the academic integrity violation....Dentistry, like any other health care job is built around patient trust and ethics. I am not judging the OP; it sounds like a minor infraction to me and I am sure he has learned from the experience but if he is on the bubble that will always be a reason to choose someone else over him. On my interview day one full hour was devoted to an essay test and follow up discussion on ethics.

My only advice is to try to improve your GPA so that you are no longer a "bubble candidate". I am sure that you will always have to explain the cheating incident but if your grades are tremendous it might make it easier for you to get in.

Man I already know this, I was responding to the person who mentioned his DAT. Did you not see? Damn you just pissed me offloooool

 

[Pro-Dentite19]

Man I already know this, I was responding to the person who mentioned his DAT. Did you not see? Damn you just pissed me offloooool

Sorry my friend, it wasn't my intention! No need to get mad

 

[OSUkid]

Sorry my friend, it wasn't my intention! No need to get mad

Im not mad, im glad

 

[WeCanDoIt123]

But why waste your time and money if you could just apply once more? Look on your AADSAS application and ask yourself this: Did you put your 100% effort into this year, knowing fully that everything that is on your app will make ADCOMS know you're for them? That is how you will know if this cycle is for you or not.

I commend you for your hard work and effort in applying for dental school; your motivation and rigor will definitely let you go far! And I hope I'm not being too critical! I just wanted to give you my opinion, which is based off an admissions officer I personally spoke with recently. I wish everyone the best of luck, and I truly believe that anyone can get in...it's just are they ready NOW, you know?

Think about what you wish to do, and the long-term effect. Sometimes it's all about how you plan your strategy...best of luck to you

definitely not too critical! i appreciate your suggestions and advice, it will all help me make my final decision.

I will be applying this cycle; seems like there is no harm in doing so (might as well try) as I have enough change this application cycle, and if I don't get in my application next year will still be stronger with the finished masters program

thank you @Pro-Dentite19 @virtualmaster999 @DentalDoge @doc toothache @ajj70 @cacajuate and everyone else who posted their tips and opinions, it really means alot!.

 

[willwash]

Did you ever follow up with schools that dinged you and ask what it was that held you back, so you knew what to work on next cycle?

 

[WeCanDoIt123]

Did you ever follow up with schools that dinged you and ask what it was that held you back, so you knew what to work on next cycle?

yes, specifically UoP (the only school that gave me an interview) wanted me to gain more life experience and to reflect on my mistakes. I've been trying to gain more life experience by joining a master's program as well as increasing volunteer, working, and research hours. As for reflecting on my mistakes, I'm not really sure what I can do specifically to change...I'm guessing only my interview will show that