Need advice of ppl who are "in the know"

[planningMD]

Ok...

Im a chump.

Here is the story:

In 2000, I was accepted into osteopathic medical school. I had taken the MCAT a year ago without having taken most of the typical prerequisites, and scored a 21. I remember thinking to myself, "what am I doing taking this test, i have never seen most of the material here!" I have an aunt and two uncles who are MD doctors, but the DO title did not (and mostly still does not) matter to me.

The thing that kept playing on my mind was I had just gotten a C in organic chemistry, and online no less. I invested a total of approximately 14 hours into the entire class, that is, 2 hours enrolling and getting ready for the class, and 12 hours studying and taking tests. The entire 12 hours was an all night, no sleep marathon, on a cold Monday in December. I had no organic chemistry knowledge previously, but the design of the class, and fast research allowed me to pass an entire semester of organic chemistry in one night. Having taken 3 tests and a final, I was finished by 6am that next morning, and ready to go to my electrical engineering job in two hours.

This was really only the beginning to an amazingly easy ride into the osteopathic world of medicine. I found that without trying, I could slip in under their radar, and additionally get a full ride in achieving something that I thought I had wanted to do since I was five. I thought it was all a part of the life of that allowed me to be accepted into the high IQ society, Mensa, where if you could think pretty fast then people thought you were something special even if you were a lazy bum doing nothing to better society, much like myself.

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[planningMD]

So the school year started as I had expected, lectures all the time, and a test in a few weeks. Well as was my typical routine, I would not study. In fact I would wait until the night before the exam to do any studying at all. I manage to pass my tests with a typical score of 75-80%, getting near perfect scores in the subject of pathology that was considered to be so hard for everyone, so I was not too worried about trying any harder. It was bothering me somewhat, that I am in this to handle the life or death health choices for many people, and I was taking this all so lightly. However, my first final exam I did not even bother to study for and I failed. It was a complete surprise to me as were the next few months where this exact process repeated.

I left feeling surprised and hurt, partly feeling mad at the school, but really I knew it was my own fault. In some way, I was happy to leave, there were a number of small things that happened that encouraged me to not try, and I wasn't learning like I should. I liked the people, the material was very interesting, I got along with everyone very well. I was even the President two clubs.

In the following weeks I realized I had to wake up and take notice of what had occurred, or even if I never fulfill my dream, I will go through life not doing my best, not enjoying life.

So, I set up a plan, in painful consideration of my faults but also my strengths, with goals I decided I must achieve if I were to even consider going back to school. First, I decided I needed to find my driving force in pursuing this pathway. This is the reason why I wanted to do this at all, I knew I had felt it a number of times, but this had to be concrete to me, and make me want to try hard, and do very, very well. Second was to take a complete set of prerequisites this time, and do not slouch on this as my previous school actually allowed, by getting straight A's in all new courses. Medical school requires extreme dedication and if I could not get A's in these simple classes then how could I reasonably expect to do well in life or death situations that require fast and most importantly accurate thinking? Third was to study for and retake the MCAT. I decided I must far surpass the average for acceptance to satisfy my personal resolve. Only meeting averages or just passing is how I used to operate, and this is how I run my life no longer.

 

[planningMD]

Now, 4 years after I started, I have achieved a straight A record on my new classes, and a 33 on the MCAT. I became certified as a paramedic and have logged several thousand hours rushing to literally save people's lives. This was most important to me, because I feel I have gained a truly invaluable experience in this time as a paramedic, giving me the spirit and motivation I had only previously seen on occasion. In addition, I continued my work as an Electrical Engineer and received my PE license, however, this only managed to further my realization that work as an engineer is not what I have enjoyed, it is not what I felt a strong calling to do in life.

My past experiences have been that of someone who had life very easy and was never pushed. I felt like getting into osteopathic medical school was something that was simply handed to me, and I never felt encouraged to try. I have been handed scholarship after scholarship, opportunity after opportunity, all just simply handed to me, and that part of my life has been nearly meaningless in helping me or helping others in this amazing journey we call life. I have learned a great deal in the past four years, and can honestly assure you, but most importantly know in myself, that I will no longer be lackadaisical in what I do. Life is something you get to play with for only a few fleeting moments, and then it is gone. I have chosen my present path because I know it to be something dear to my heart, and I feel very challenged and motivated from within to pursue this further.

So I guess what I am asking, is this dream even possible after all of this time, am I just kidding myself even now?? Will any MD school let me in its doors with my history??

 

[USArmyDoc]

I am sorry but your post annoys me. You go around bragging about taking organic chemistry is one night. Well good for you. Christ, I am not going to go on.

 

[jebus]

Will any MD school let me in its doors with my history??

Maybe. Have you considered DO?

 

[planningMD]

I am sorry but your post annoys me. You go around bragging about taking organic chemistry is one night. Well good for you. Christ, I am not going to go on.

do you really take it as bragging? i thought it meant that i took it from some easy online place. it was all really bad i thought, and only served to reinforce my own bad habits and ways of thinking.

 

[planningMD]

Maybe. Have you considered DO?

i have, i honestly have. but i think that since i failed out of one already that they would not let me get back in.

 

[USArmyDoc]

do you really take it as bragging? i thought it meant that i took it from some easy online place. it was all really bad i thought, and only served to reinforce my own bad habits and ways of thinking.

Well, I think you'll get into a MD school but to me it seemed like you were bragging.

 

[planningMD]

even with my jaded past, you think i actually have a shot?

ive talked to a number of councelors in the past few years and basically ive heard two things

"you had your shot, no one is going to let you come back now"

or

"its possible, your MCAT is OK, but your total GPA is still only 3.3, might as well and apply and find out"

 

[Telemachus]

Will any MD school let me in its doors with my history??

I would not, if I knew all of this. The question is: how much of this will they know? They deserve to know it all, and you don't deserve to hide things from them just to further your personal agenda. However, there is rarely a great deal of justice in this world.......

 

[USArmyDoc]

even with my jaded past, you think i actually have a shot?

ive talked to a number of councelors in the past few years and basically ive heard two things

"you had your shot, no one is going to let you come back now"

or

"its possible, your MCAT is OK, but your total GPA is still only 3.3, might as well and apply and find out"

Might as well try and try to convey how you have grown from your experience.

 

[planningMD]

I would not, if I knew all of this. The question is: how much of this will they know? They deserve to know it all, and you don't deserve to hide things from them just to further your personal agenda. However, there is rarely a great deal of justice in this world.......

you really would not? what would make you take that decision?

my "story" would definitely be conveyed in some way. this is all important to me, in my life, so i would not hide it.

 

[nekrogg]

maybe a beautiful personal statement might fix the whole ordeal. chances are very slim though. Again im sorry to say this but you had opportunities handed to you and you didnt sieze them. in life sometimes there is only one chance to be taken.

 

[planningMD]

maybe a beautiful personal statement might fix the whole ordeal. chances are very slim though. Again im sorry to say this but you had opportunities handed to you and you didnt sieze them. in life sometimes there is only one chance to be taken.

yea... thas what im worried about...

 

[jcr_massage]

I replied to this post in the osteopathic forum so you can read my reply there. Ultimately though, yes there is a shot but it is a slim one. By the way I disagree on the idea that because you failed out of DO they would not likely take you back but a MD school would. I would waget to say that it may be the opposite. An osteopathic school is more likely to take in the whole pictures and be slightly more lenient and possibly forgiving. With an MD school unfortunately becasue allot of MD schools still see DO education as slightly less "elite" shall we say, they may say well you failed at DO so what makes you think you can compete here.

If your going to do this and reapply.....then don't screw it all up again and not even apply DO.

Blessings
Bodyworksweety

 

[planningMD]

yes, i have saved up some money, and ill be apply to EVERY medical school that has MCAT averages at mine or below.

my GPA is only 3.3, so that is going to hurt, a lot.
my past is probably going to kill me at every point...... sigh.........

 

[masterMood]

planningMD, don't give up. How old are you now? 24 25? Just keep on working on boosting that gpa, and improving your e.c.s. You have the motivation now, and you seem like you have a really great story, and good english skills, just don't give up. I would recommend applying to the carribbean schools to be safe, and if you got in, go there. An MD is an MD, and although you may not be able to become something special like a dermatologist, you can get into a great residency as long as you work hard in med. school and get high board scores and the like

 

[planningMD]

i want to be a family practice doctor. i already know that. is the carabbean a place i should really consider? i guess if i dont get in anywhere??

im 29. older than most applicants. mcat = 33, gpa =3.3, but gpa in the last 3 yrs has been almost 30 hrs, and 4.0/4.0

 

[masterMood]

First thing I should say is that I don't know much about the caribbean schools only that if you really want the MD, and you want to practice general medicine in the U.S., it will happen. However, don't be arrogant by the fac tthat the carribbean schools have lower admission standards. Their classes are just as hard as those in america, and more people probably fail each year than in the american schools.

here's a link with some more info
http://www.studentdoc.com/caribbean-medical-schools.html

 

[NapeSpikes]

Maybe. Have you considered DO?

 

[planningMD]

First thing I should say is that I don't know much about the caribbean schools only that if you really want the MD, and you want to practice general medicine in the U.S., it will happen. However, don't be arrogant by the fac tthat the carribbean schools have lower admission standards. Their classes are just as hard as those in america, and more people probably fail each year than in the american schools.

here's a link with some more info
http://www.studentdoc.com/caribbean-medical-schools.html

yea, i guess i should include those too. its weird how things turn around, but really i dont care where i go. I know i want to do this.

 

[Telemachus]

you really would not? what would make you take that decision?

my "story" would definitely be conveyed in some way. this is all important to me, in my life, so i would not hide it.

Training med students is expensive, beyond what any of us pay in tuition. For the med schools it is of the utmost importance that they graduate as many of their students as possible with the lowest drop-out/kick-out rate possible. Therefore the admission process focuses on making sure that the people who are accepted will succeed and finish. You need to remember that there are 2-3 applicants per first year allopathic med student positions in the US. There are safer candidates who have proven themelves to be stable and competent. The "I've changed" argument doesn't sway me. But it might some people; the important thing is to be honest and find a place that wants you warts and all -- because if you hide anything and they later find out they might want to get rid of you, and then you're really screwed.

 

[Napoleon4000]

Planning MD,
In your defense your story is unique. I really appreciate the non-cookie cutter stories. I think, and know of some rather interesting personalities at top 5 schools, who have a story of failure, crime, conviction, growth and redemption. Now they are practicing physicians. Again, if I were in your shoes, I would go with my own convictions. Personally, I wouldn't use this forum to validate my own opinions and convictions. Rather, I suggest networking and spreading your story with those who may be more mature and understand your point of view. I've learned that SDN is almost like a religion where because of the anonimity people can immediately criticize and find fault in others. Anyway, go with your gut, follow your heart and your conviction and be prepared for a tough fight ahead.

 

[planningMD]

thanks everyone

 

[Law2Doc]

Might as well try and try to convey how you have grown from your experience.

This would be the only approach worth taking. Any mention of Mensa or privilege or passing orgo online overnight, having DO school "simply handed to you" or otherwise thinking you are uber-smart will be the end of your chances. It's grovelling time. Actually, from your post, you don't appear to have grown at all from your experiences -- a good story would be one where you portrayed yourself as young, foolish and unfocused, but now you have changed your tune -- not a Mensa member who took it too easy and was shocked to not pass. You have failed out of professional school, not even an allo one, so that by definition puts you in the pile of those least likely to hack it in allo med school, recent courses notwithstanding. That is the hurdle you need to overcome. I actually think the school that kicked you out would be the only one that might want to touch you, since they are privy to all the facts, and can best judge whether or not you have changed. There is also some hurdle with folks leaving DO for MD -- schools don't want to get into cross degree student poaching allegations, and so allo schools may steer clear of you for that too. Good luck.

 

[silas2642]

Planningmd: I honestly don't know. I think that it's possible, but you certainly have an uphill battle ahead of you. If I were you I would get in touch with the dean of admissions of a couple medical schools you are interested in to set up an appointment as to your status quo; let them know that you've really really changed and that this is your passion. Get them to give you some feedback as to where to go next. I know that you have clinical experience, but I think that you're going to need to have some MD's whom you've mentored under or something write you outstanding letters of recommendation. Your gpa is low, and you may have to do a post-bac or an SMP program to prove that you can do the work and that you are dedicated to medicine this time. If this is your dream, you'll find a way, even if it's through the Caribbean. Good luck.

 

[robotsonic]

Planningmd, have you taken any other pre-med type courses since that online orgo (like other chemistry, physics, or biology courses)? If you have only taken engineering courses and your science GPA (which for med schools doesn't include engineering) is still very low, then you don't have a shot. You need to show that you can handle the pre-med courses at respected universities (NOT online). If you haven't done this, you will need to do some post-bacc courses at a well-known program and do very well. You have to prove that you really have learned to study, because in medical school you will not be able to cram the night before and do well - there is just too much stuff to learn.

Unlike others on here, I think you do have a shot - but only if you have a very good recent science GPA and apply everywhere.

 

[45408]

"you had your shot, no one is going to let you come back now"

That's pretty much how I feel. If this mattered at all to you, you wouldn't have screwed around as much as you have. If I were on the adcom and I knew your past, I'd let in somebody that actually cared.

 

[theunderdog]

planningMD,

before i begin with my advice, i'm doing you favor by telling you how it really is. i already got accepted into the school i want to go to, so take my word for it.

let me tell you how it is. 3.3 is NOT low. i don't know where you pulled that crap from. secondly, you have improved since failing out. you got straight freaking As and a 33 on the mcat. clearly, you are capable of handling the academic rigors of becoming a doctor.

the problem is, of course, you. you remind me of one of my friends who loves to slack of, study at the last minute, and has zero motivation whatsoever to consistently work hard. in the end, my friend ends up complaining to me at a bar telling me how he thinks he deserves to be going to the top med school in the country and how he think he works his ass off. clearly not, becuase he will be taking a year off.

now getting back to you, the problem is yourself. you obviously want to be a doctor. but it's like you don't want to work for it to maintain it. you have a good chance with your 3.3 and 33 mcat. don't cheat yourself, and most importantly, don't be cheating others. there are lots of people here at SDN with lower grades who have gotten in. in fact, there are people with higher grades but lower mcats who have also gotten in. motivation and drives matters a lot. i'm the latter type of applicant.

to me, it sounds like you're whining. i suspect you're about 28 years old and still don't know WTF you're going to do with your life. jesus man, just stfu and decide. you wasted all this freaking time complaining about this crap and that crap. you sound just like my friend in fact. put the past behind you, decide what you want to do, and go for it... ALL THE WAY. if you really want to be a doctor, then you got to work to be a doctor. you need to be studying effectively and not failing out of classes. if the DO degree is fine with you, then go back to the DO school and finish what you started.

otherwise, if you still want to be a doctor and you want the mainstream way, go MD. you will get in somewhere. but again, that's not your problem. you see, you will get in somewhere. the problem is that you have to maintain your position there.

as you see, i'm getting really ticked off as i'm writing. i hear stories like yours all the time while teaching for a top test prep company. it pisses me off to hear crap from people who complain, but really have nothing to complain about... once they realize they have all the power to change what's been going on in their life.

 

[masterMood]

planningMD, although some of these posts are a bit harsh, it is still good advice. We don't know you at all, and you could be a completely different person than what you sound like. Anyways, I think one thing that really echoes here is to really really really really think of a good way you have matured. It'll be hard yeah, but remember not to be cocky, rude, immature in any sense in your personal statements and interviews, and try to make connections if possible.

 

[planningMD]

thanks a lot guys. i appreciate all the threads, and yea being harsh is what i need... probably needed a long time... sorry to have sounded like i was complaining, im not trying to do that at all. anyways... got some work ahead of me... take care

 

[javert]

planningMD,

before i begin with my advice, i'm doing you favor by telling you how it really is. i already got accepted into the school i want to go to, so take my word for it.

let me tell you how it is. 3.3 is NOT low. i don't know where you pulled that crap from. secondly, you have improved since failing out. you got straight freaking As and a 33 on the mcat. clearly, you are capable of handling the academic rigors of becoming a doctor.

the problem is, of course, you. you remind me of one of my friends who loves to slack of, study at the last minute, and has zero motivation whatsoever to consistently work hard. in the end, my friend ends up complaining to me at a bar telling me how he thinks he deserves to be going to the top med school in the country and how he think he works his ass off. clearly not, becuase he will be taking a year off.

now getting back to you, the problem is yourself. you obviously want to be a doctor. but it's like you don't want to work for it to maintain it. you have a good chance with your 3.3 and 33 mcat. don't cheat yourself, and most importantly, don't be cheating others. there are lots of people here at SDN with lower grades who have gotten in. in fact, there are people with higher grades but lower mcats who have also gotten in. motivation and drives matters a lot. i'm the latter type of applicant.

to me, it sounds like you're whining. i suspect you're about 28 years old and still don't know WTF you're going to do with your life. jesus man, just stfu and decide. you wasted all this freaking time complaining about this crap and that crap. you sound just like my friend in fact. put the past behind you, decide what you want to do, and go for it... ALL THE WAY. if you really want to be a doctor, then you got to work to be a doctor. you need to be studying effectively and not failing out of classes. if the DO degree is fine with you, then go back to the DO school and finish what you started.

otherwise, if you still want to be a doctor and you want the mainstream way, go MD. you will get in somewhere. but again, that's not your problem. you see, you will get in somewhere. the problem is that you have to maintain your position there.

as you see, i'm getting really ticked off as i'm writing. i hear stories like yours all the time while teaching for a top test prep company. it pisses me off to hear crap from people who complain, but really have nothing to complain about... once they realize they have all the power to change what's been going on in their life.

That was an odd post.

 

[Napoleon4000]

Yes. Sounds more like a chip on the shoulder. And to add, not very compassionate. Hostile too.

 

[nicholasblonde]

planningMD,

Instead of posting your story on here, and reading the plethora of resulting comments/opinions, why don't you just focus on applying and letting the medical schools decide whether or not they want you.

Don't question yourself too much on this issue--medical schools like assertive, decisive, confident (but not overly assertive, decisive, and confident) people. So don't waver, stick to your guns, and when you apply don't for a second mention that you questioned whether to re-apply or not...tell the school you definitively want to be a doc, you were distracted and/or irresponsible earlier on, and you've changed.

 

[UCLA2000]

It is entirely possible to get into medical school again. Not easy, but possible. I have a very close friend of mine who was kicked out of medical school and was re-accepted the following year to a different med school. That being said, he had a lot of explaining to do.

He is currently in his 2nd year of medical school.