Need advice on which path to take: MD vs NP+PHD

[sinewy]

Please advise! thanks

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[bcliff]

Hi forum!

I'm looking for some advice on which path I should take to reach my eventual career goal, which is to do clinical research and study how mental illness (particularly depression) alters perception and views on reality.

I have a degree in neuroscience, and I am about to begin an accelerated BSN which I will complete in a year. After this, I am not sure if I should apply to medical school and become a psychiatrist, or continue on to an NP program and become a psychiatric nurse practitioner and then purse a PHD in cognitive psychology or become an NP and then study clinical psychology.

I guess I am trying to see if medical school would be worth it, or will the NP license (with a Psychology PHD) be enough to work independently with a clinical population and head my own research studies.

Please advise! thanks

If you have your premed reqs done and aren't totally phased by medicine, then I suggest the MD route. It provides the best reimbursement and most concise training (vs. NP + PhD).

 

[nessa34]

Hi forum!

I'm looking for some advice on which path I should take to reach my eventual career goal, which is to do clinical research and study how mental illness (particularly depression) alters perception and views on reality.

I have a degree in neuroscience, and I am about to begin an accelerated BSN which I will complete in a year. After this, I am not sure if I should apply to medical school and become a psychiatrist, or continue on to an NP program and become a psychiatric nurse practitioner and then purse a PHD in cognitive psychology or become an NP and then study clinical psychology.

I guess I am trying to see if medical school would be worth it, or will the NP license (with a Psychology PHD) be enough to work independently with a clinical population and head my own research studies.

Please advise! thanks

when you say you want to do clinical research, do you mean solely or in addition to practicing as a clinician? If you know you want to do research, ditch the prescribing capabilities you wouldn't be using as a NP or MD and just do the degree that will train you to do research (aka a PhD, probably in clinical psych for what you want to do). If you want to primarily practice, doing an MD is smarter than getting two degrees. If you're not sure, I would figure that out first.

 

[mcvcm92]

I'll second Briarcliff and say that you should go the MD route if you have the pre-med requirements and are actually interested in pursuing medicine. Psychiatrists can do therapy (the amount of it varies based on position obviously). Getting a Ph.D & NP will take quite a bit longer, and it's not really time-efficient compared to getting your MD.

 

[sinewy]

Thanks for the responses.

 

[PHD12]

I do have all of the pre-med reqs done and although I agree that the MD may be faster than a NP+PHD, the time frame would actually end up being roughly the same for me because I wouldn't begin the MD until 2015 the earliest, and by then I will be halfway through an NP program. PHD would be 5-6 years after a 2016 start, while MD+residency would be 8 years after a 2015 start...so in the end, I think the timeline would be around the same. My only concern is the debt I will be in if I get an MD, especially if I would like to prioritize research (and practice part time). That is why I'm wondering if the MD would be worth it.

At this point, I think I'll just prepare myself for both paths, and make a decision once I finish nursing school.

Thanks for the responses.

PhD on its own is the same length as an MD, but you never know exactly when you will finish. You are forgetting the required postdoctoral hours in almost all states. You aren't going to be licensed when you graduate and must complete postdoc hours in most situations. I spent at least 1 extra year in my PHD program and i usually finish everything early.

PHD route: 5-7 years of graduate school + 1-2 years fellowship/postdoc = 7-8 years total on average.

Your salary will also be higher as an MD then with a PHD/NP.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

What about a doctorate in nursing?

I think the PhD-NP route will be insanely long. Do you have the required research experience to be competitive for a clinical PhD? If not, tack another 2 yrs on to your plan.

Dr. E

 

[WisNeuro]

You want to do research right? Go the Ph.D. route then.

Having worked in several academic centers, with MD.s on research projects, and dating a current 4th year med student; I can tell you that Med School gives MD's minimal and terrible training in research. The amount of time we have to spend explaining basic research concepts and statistics to the MD's we work on research projects with is astounding. And they actually come from a more research oriented background!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

What about a doctorate in nursing?

The DNP as currently designed is a complete waste of time (there is a long thread in the NP/PA forum about it), though a Ph.D. related to nursing is an actual research degree.

 

[sinewy]

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[PHD12]

I agree that the DNP is pretty much out of the question. PHD in nursing is a consideration, but I am not sure if doctoral nursing students study the neuropsychological basis of mental illness. It seems like the focus is more on discovering new interventions or new ways of allocating patient care.
Right now, I definitely do not have a chance of getting into a clinical psych or cognitive psych program, which is why going directly for a PHD is not an option. I am several years out of school, I have no research experience, and even though some may recommend doing a masters programs, I chose to go for a nursing degree because, besides being much cheaper (i'm at a state school), I felt that I would end up gaining valuable clinical experience and be able to make connections with people doing psychiatric research at some of the clinical sites.
So again thanks for all the input. I'm leaning 70-30 in favor of eventually going for the MD, because really the only strike I have against it is the cost, and I shouldn't let that stop me from doing what I want.

Prioritize state schools. You will still take out loans, but less than private schools. Consider the 3 year MD programs. I've seen these at NYU and Duke. The MD salary is going to be 2-3 times more depending on exact specialty so you should be able to handle a good amount of debt. All the psychiatrists i know are pretty wealthy and don't seem to be struggling with debt. They complain about the cost of med school, but have fancy cars and own homes.

 

[Juanito54321]

Please advise! thanks

Stay in the medical, MD realm.

Once an NP or a DNP, you will always be treated like a Nurse who knows a little more administrative politics/psychology to get up in the ranks and has specialized in some medical cookbook algorithms in her field of specialty. An NP/DNP is either feared for what he/she might know or what administrative connections do they possess to railroad anyone who disagrees with their role in the medical field as an Independent Practitioner. Or is simply used as a temporary fill-in, in which no doctors volunteered to work in that field or community, in which economic sense is the necessity at that time, to hire a cheaper person to do the similar duties of an MD at a Nurse's hourly/rate.

Like one threadmaster noted: The NP/DNP as its currently designed as a complete waste of time. Looks nice on paper but the Doctor's will still pay you an advanced Nurse rate/hr.

Better to be an MD