Need advise on ranking a program #1 vs #2

[Cody1MD]

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I think I have a good chance at getting into my #1 rank selection, but I have already noticed that I will not get along with the program director. Would anyone have any input on similar circumstances where one went to a residency program where they disliked only the program director, although the program is a strong four yr academic program (with no ultrasound fellowship)? I would like to know if other residents had similar circumstances and if so, what would you recommend?

I am deciding to rank my #1 to #2 because of the program director and the fact that if I were to stay at my current #1, I would have to do 4yrs before I can go into an ultrasound fellowship. Does anyone think this is a wise decision? My #2 who will be my #1 has everything I want expect the type of patient population I would like to work with. However, it does offer a good three yr residency curriculum with an almost guaranteed ultrasound fellowship after residency at the same institution.

Thanks
Cody1MD

 

[EctopicFetus]

So correct me if I am wrong you are thinking about dropping your #1 because you dont like the PD? Interesting.. Maybe someone can tell you the deal. I am curious.. IMO (also only a 4th yr) you dont work with them all the time and anywhere you end up there will likely be attendings you dont like as much as others. The fact that it is the PD makes it interesting. I did interview at a place and one of the residents told me she didnt like the PD but once she got there she actually realized that the PD is very different when he doesnt interview. I dont know why you dont like this PD but perhaps on interview day they arent as warm and fuzzy as they might be in real life. Lets see what the residents on here have to say!

 

[roja]

A complicated question.

without all the details, its hard to say. How do you know you don't like the PD? Is this your home institution? a place you did a rotation.

EF has an important point, in that you can't really tell what a PD is like from an interview. However, if you have some inside knowledge (home institution, rotation) than it *is* important.

Your PD is your gatekeeper. Someone who is vitally important in a residents life. They will guide the tenor of your residency and need to be able to stand in for you for many many things: off service complications, sceduling issues, job recommendations, fellowship recommendations, etc etc etc.

Someone who is devoted to the residents and whom you feel you can trust is incredibly important.

The three vs four years arguement has been made in multiple threads. Regarding U/S fellowship: be aware- there are absolutely no gaurantees. Doing a residency program at an institution is in no way a gaurantee that you will get a fellowship there... not to even mention that is is often not such a great idea. (another issue as well)

If you are lacking faith in your #1 because you have intimate knowledge of the PD, then I would seriously reconsider re-ranking. You have to be comfortable knowing that your PD will stand for you in any difficulties, you have to trust thier ability to evaluate you adn give you feedback, help guide you in your career choices and advocate for you when you are applying for fellowship, jobs.

 

[GiJoe]

So correct me if I am wrong you are thinking about dropping your #1 because you dont like the PD? Interesting.. Maybe someone can tell you the deal. I am curious.. IMO (also only a 4th yr) you dont work with them all the time and anywhere you end up there will likely be attendings you dont like as much as others. The fact that it is the PD makes it interesting. I did interview at a place and one of the residents told me she didnt like the PD but once she got there she actually realized that the PD is very different when he doesnt interview. I dont know why you dont like this PD but perhaps on interview day they arent as warm and fuzzy as they might be in real life. Lets see what the residents on here have to say!

This is very true. PD's almost never tend to be "warm and fuzzy" in real life. I interviewed at a place where the PD seemed very serious and anal but later found out that the PD is very relaxed and laid back and very approachable for his residents. most PD's are advocates of their residents and I can't imagine why he won't be for you, if you end up there. (unless you make fun of his mom or somthing)

if you like everything else about the program, dont make the mistake of ranking it lower based on 1 person. Remember, you're looking at the whole package here and in the end, you opinion about the PD may most likely be wrong!

good luck

 

[NinerNiner999]

Agree with Roja - yor PD there will determine the next four years of your life - period. If you and your PD don't get along, you can probably expect several things to come out of your training: poor evaluations, difficult interactions, questions regarding your dedication, etc, etc, etc. Of course, this is a generalized statement, but I've seen (and heard) of this happening to people I know, and it sucks. There is too much pain in residency, and anything you can do to minimize it is key. Don't start your career off with a bad relationship. As alluded to above, your PD is your voice to the other departments, and your supporter when all else fails. He/she will determine how marketable you will be for fellowships and/or jobs. If you don't like your PD (and you have a reliable reason not to besides your interview day), DO NOT RANK THIS PROGRAM AT ALL. If you like the program and your bad impression is from the interview day or from limited experience, rank it. If they rank you to match, then odds are the PD likes YOU....

 

[totalbodypain]

Agree with Roja - yor PD there will determine the next four years of your life - period. If you and your PD don't get along, you can probably expect several things to come out of your training: poor evaluations, difficult interactions, questions regarding your dedication, etc, etc, etc. Of course, this is a generalized statement, but I've seen (and heard) of this happening to people I know, and it sucks. There is too much pain in residency, and anything you can do to minimize it is key. Don't start your career off with a bad relationship. As alluded to above, your PD is your voice to the other departments, and your supporter when all else fails. He/she will determine how marketable you will be for fellowships and/or jobs. If you don't like your PD (and you have a reliable reason not to besides your interview day), DO NOT RANK THIS PROGRAM AT ALL. If you like the program and your bad impression is from the interview day or from limited experience, rank it. If they rank you to match, then odds are the PD likes YOU....

Ditto what Ninerniner999 says. Difficulties with your PD can make an already difficult time in your life nearly impossible. Rank with caution.

 

[Seaglass]

With regards to the 3 v 4 year thing for US fellowship - to my knowledge with the exception of US fellowships at 4 year programs, you are not at a disadvantage coming form a 3 year program.

 

[peksi]

I think i can shed some light on the US Fellowship issue.

First of all, I suggest you look for the EM program that best fits you! A place you want to go, develop your skills as a physician and EP.

I have selected EUS Fellows (since 2001) with little to no US experience, and others with extensive training, research and an advanced skill set. I have selected both internal and external candidates. My point is not to overthink this issue. There are valid reasons why folks select 3 vs 4 year programs and as other have stated it is often a personal decision. I have also accepted and rejected applicants from 3 and 4 year programs alike for my fellowship. I am objective when evaluating internal or external candidates. I seek the best fit and best person for our fellowship each year from our candidate pool. And every one of my fellows had one thing in common...they ALL loved where they trained for residency.

Now, if I though I might have issues with a PD, regardless of long term goals, I would not rank the program! But that's just me.

And as far as looking into the future, I thought I was going into cardiology and to be a ballonatic, instead I'm a "gel head"! 👍

I truely applaud your longterm goal (and potentially your fellowship app in 3-4 years), but try not to let it consume you. Residency is truely one of the best times of your life, so make sure you rank programs where you feel you can enjoy your training and free time. (Disclaimer: the views expressed in this last sentance are those of Paul Sierzenski and may not reflect the views of his wife!)

Feel free to PM me with EUS Fellowship questions.

Paul