Need Feedback on an Offer - Admin backtracked and won't give bonus

[TikiMojo]

Academic hospital
Nocturnist
7 on 14 off
No vacation No PTO
Base salary mid 200s
CME 5K
wRVU starts at under $2 and increases every year to over $10 if stayed for 7 years or longer.

Decent offer?

Recruiter initially told me on the phone that there is a sign on bonus and relocation reimbursement. After receiving the offer, they now said that a sign on bonus will not be offered since there are a lot of applicants.

Should I negotiate for the bonus and for days off for my CME?

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[TikiMojo]

Forgot to add that the offer stipulates that I will need to give at least 6 months notice if I were to quit. It is a lot longer than the standard 3 months.

 

[tylerb1800]

How many patient encounters?
Supervising residents?
Loan repayment?
Not sure I understand your wRVU bonus

What is the penalty for leaving with less than 6 month notice?

Always ask for more money whether that is base salary, relocation, sign on, extra CME money, paid insurance, etc.

 

[chessknt]

$171/hr without a bonus if you are at 250k, better than what I made when I worked nights. No idea if it is good. The wrvu bonus is probably ****, best case scenario it is like an extra 10-20k a year if you are seeing a **** ton of patients. Amounts to about an $8 bonus per admit which is just embarrassing.

As for signing bonus you could ask for relocation but if they truly have their pick of applicants theyll just find one who sucks at negotiating and go with that one.

 

[TikiMojo]

Thanks a lot for the feedbacks! I asked today and they pretty much said no to everything. They reiterated that they have many applicants. So I am just going to sign it since well...I have no choice. The schedule is great for my family so that's what matters.

I think I can pick up a side gig for a little extra income since it's 14 off. But their contract states that I would need to give written request and get approval from them to have other income outside of my job or they can take ownership of my income. Is that normal?

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

Why would this place care about 6 months notice if they have all these applicants beating down their door to work for them?

 

[chessknt]

Thanks a lot for the feedbacks! I asked today and they pretty much said no to everything. They reiterated that they have many applicants. So I am just going to sign it since well...I have no choice. The schedule is great for my family so that's what matters.

I think I can pick up a side gig for a little extra income since it's 14 off. But their contract states that I would need to give written request and get approval from them to have other income outside of my job or they can take ownership of my income. Is that normal?

If they have that then just assume you won't be allowed to work a side job. They sound quite hostile in their negotiations. Remember they actually do need you more than you need them but they are training you to think otherwise before you've even started! People who will only work nights don't just grow on trees, you deserve to have your move paid for. If you are geographically bound then go for it otherwise I would pass and look elsewhere.

 

[TikiMojo]

They are going to pay for the relocation actually, sorry I didn't word it well. But it is the sign on bonus that they won't give me.

This is an academic hospital belonging to a big university system. So I am guessing they are less willing to negotiate being academic.

 

[TikiMojo]

I had a high paying (low 300s) nocturnist job that gave me 50K sign on bonus. But it was 7 on and 7 off and my soul and body was drained. I had depression working that job.

It is a bit getting used to from getting 50K bonus to no bonus offered.

 

[Nocturnist]

Thanks a lot for the feedbacks! I asked today and they pretty much said no to everything. They reiterated that they have many applicants. So I am just going to sign it since well...I have no choice. The schedule is great for my family so that's what matters.

I think I can pick up a side gig for a little extra income since it's 14 off. But their contract states that I would need to give written request and get approval from them to have other income outside of my job or they can take ownership of my income. Is that normal?

The good news: for an academic gig, this is a fantastic offer. First, anything other than 7 on/off in academia is rare. Second, $170/hr in academia is very, very generous. On top of that, $2 an RVU is an extra $50 a night just for doing your job, and has the potential to easily be an extra $250 a night in a few years.

The bad news: that non compete clause must go. You're not working for Google or Tesla, you're not holding any intellectual property secrets they gotta worry about. What do they care what you do on your days off? I would never allow an employer to have the reigns over my moonlighting. This single-handedly would be a deal breaker for me as it would hinder my income potential more than any of the pros of the contract. I can't remember if I had a similar term on my initial contract or not, but I can tell you I did specifically add to my contract that I'm able to "moonlight, do research, and work at any other facility". Mind you this was 6 years ago and my hospital was a bit more desperate for good nocturnists- but they were thrilled to have me on board even with those terms.

 

[rokshana]

They are going to pay for the relocation actually, sorry I didn't word it well. But it is the sign on bonus that they won't give me.

This is an academic hospital belonging to a big university system. So I am guessing they are less willing to negotiate being academic.

Frankly it’s sound terrible… find something else…did you get an attorney involved in your negotiations? You should… it’s worth it.

 

[Iamnew2]

Academic hospital
Nocturnist
7 on 14 off
No vacation No PTO
Base salary mid 200s
CME 5K
wRVU starts at under $2 and increases every year to over $10 if stayed for 7 years or longer.

Decent offer?

Recruiter initially told me on the phone that there is a sign on bonus and relocation reimbursement. After receiving the offer, they now said that a sign on bonus will not be offered since there are a lot of applicants.

Should I negotiate for the bonus and for days off for my CME?

For a nocturist sounds like low pay, and given that they won't let you have your free time to do as you please - I'd run. Whoever heard of having to give 6months notice? That's ridiculous. 3 is already pushing it. and if they are this hostile when they haven't even signed you imagine what things will be like when you are working for them. I would not have signed this.

 

[Nocturnist]

For a nocturist sounds like low pay, and given that they won't let you have your free time to do as you please - I'd run. Whoever heard of having to give 6months notice? That's ridiculous. 3 is already pushing it. and if they are this hostile when they haven't even signed you imagine what things will be like when you are working for them. I would not have signed this.

Agree that 6 month notice is too long, but in what world is $170/hr "low pay"? For a community hospital, that's pretty competitive for a base pay. For an academic hospital, nearly unheard of. Plus, how many nocturnist gigs are 7on/14 off? Its becoming more common in the community but still not the standard, I'm not sure I've ever heard of that in any academic hospital.

 

[jm192]

Sign on bonus is pretty standard for most gigs. I assume you're dealing directly with the hospital and not a staffing company like TeamHealth or the like. When I dealt with a Hospital directly, the CEO threw dirty trick after dirty trick at me. Unless this is a place you just have to be, I'd tell them to kick rocks. Or probably more ideally, tell them you can get a sign on bonus at one of your other options and you know your worth. If they don't want to pay you your worth, you don't want to be there anyways.

Is it 170$ an hour?

I realize it's 7 on/14 off--but isn't that still 2 weeks out of each month. You're working weeks 1 and 4 instead of 1 and 3. So you're still working 26 weeks in a year. You'd work 182 shifts, 2184 hours. Someone tell me if my math is off. But that comes out to ~114.46 per hour to end up at 250K.

It's not terrible, but it's certainly not high end. And I wouldn't agree to skip a signing bonus over it.

 

[CCM-MD]

Sign on bonus is pretty standard for most gigs. I assume you're dealing directly with the hospital and not a staffing company like TeamHealth or the like. When I dealt with a Hospital directly, the CEO threw dirty trick after dirty trick at me. Unless this is a place you just have to be, I'd tell them to kick rocks. Or probably more ideally, tell them you can get a sign on bonus at one of your other options and you know your worth. If they don't want to pay you your worth, you don't want to be there anyways.

Is it 170$ an hour?

I realize it's 7 on/14 off--but isn't that still 2 weeks out of each month. You're working weeks 1 and 4 instead of 1 and 3. So you're still working 26 weeks in a year. You'd work 182 shifts, 2184 hours. Someone tell me if my math is off. But that comes out to ~114.46 per hour to end up at 250K.

It's not terrible, but it's certainly not high end. And I wouldn't agree to skip a signing bonus over it.

Your math is off.

 

[Nocturnist]

Sign on bonus is pretty standard for most gigs. I assume you're dealing directly with the hospital and not a staffing company like TeamHealth or the like. When I dealt with a Hospital directly, the CEO threw dirty trick after dirty trick at me. Unless this is a place you just have to be, I'd tell them to kick rocks. Or probably more ideally, tell them you can get a sign on bonus at one of your other options and you know your worth. If they don't want to pay you your worth, you don't want to be there anyways.

Is it 170$ an hour?

I realize it's 7 on/14 off--but isn't that still 2 weeks out of each month. You're working weeks 1 and 4 instead of 1 and 3. So you're still working 26 weeks in a year. You'd work 182 shifts, 2184 hours. Someone tell me if my math is off. But that comes out to ~114.46 per hour to end up at 250K.

It's not terrible, but it's certainly not high end. And I wouldn't agree to skip a signing bonus over it.

Its 17.3 weeks, 121 shifts a year, 1456 hours a year.

 

[ObsequiousAplomb]

Sign on bonus is pretty standard for most gigs. I assume you're dealing directly with the hospital and not a staffing company like TeamHealth or the like. When I dealt with a Hospital directly, the CEO threw dirty trick after dirty trick at me. Unless this is a place you just have to be, I'd tell them to kick rocks. Or probably more ideally, tell them you can get a sign on bonus at one of your other options and you know your worth. If they don't want to pay you your worth, you don't want to be there anyways.

Is it 170$ an hour?

I realize it's 7 on/14 off--but isn't that still 2 weeks out of each month. You're working weeks 1 and 4 instead of 1 and 3. So you're still working 26 weeks in a year. You'd work 182 shifts, 2184 hours. Someone tell me if my math is off. But that comes out to ~114.46 per hour to end up at 250K.

It's not terrible, but it's certainly not high end. And I wouldn't agree to skip a signing bonus over it.

As others have said, your math is off.

7 on 14 off is a 21 day cycle, not a 14 day cycle like 7 on 7 off.

365/21 = 17.38 cycles. So working 17.38 weeks a year and having 34.76 weeks off a year. 7/7 works out to 26.07 weeks per year worked. That means that 7/14 would amount to 8.69 fewer weeks worked per year.

Basing it solely off of hours and no other factors, $250k/year for 7/14 means each week pays $14,384. That same weekly pay for 7/7 would amount to $375k/year.

 

[tantacles]

For a nocturist sounds like low pay, and given that they won't let you have your free time to do as you please - I'd run. Whoever heard of having to give 6months notice? That's ridiculous. 3 is already pushing it. and if they are this hostile when they haven't even signed you imagine what things will be like when you are working for them. I would not have signed this.

Nah, that’s pretty competitive pay, especially for academia

 

[collegestud2013]

Thanks a lot for the feedbacks! I asked today and they pretty much said no to everything. They reiterated that they have many applicants. So I am just going to sign it since well...I have no choice. The schedule is great for my family so that's what matters.

I think I can pick up a side gig for a little extra income since it's 14 off. But their contract states that I would need to give written request and get approval from them to have other income outside of my job or they can take ownership of my income. Is that normal?

Not uncommon in academic positions with large health systems to have non-compete clauses that limit where you can work. They generally don't want you working for a competing institution since this is seen as a conflict of interest. At least is sounds like you may still be able to work outside as long as they approve it. Though they probably want you to pick up extra shifts at the same institution if you want to on your off time, so that may be an option for extra income on your time off (hopefully the pay per hr for the extra shifts is as good).