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Hello, my friend who rarely uses social media is asking me to post a question on Reddit for advice. She does not know how to use SDN or Reddit... Haha, neither do I. Anyways, I am a new medical student starting July 27th 2020, and she is a medical student graduate with an MD degree who has yet to apply to residency and stuff like that. Yes, I suck, and probably suck at explaining this stuff, but I hope you all understand or ask me to elaborate.

My friend graduated from AUA, Antigua, the Caribbean medical school. She hasn’t told me her step 1/step 2 CK+CS scores, but she states that they are bad and therefore, it will be hard for her to get residency.

She is trying to find ways to improve her CV to enhance her application and at least get interviews when she applies for residency. She does not think her scores alone will get her anywhere.

I told her that maybe doing research will help her, but I’m literally just starting medical school, so who knows how much my advice is worth.

She has two friends who also graduated from AUA, who were working jobs instead of researching and ended up matching into family medicine. One of her friends was a CCA, clinical care associate. My friend says that’s basically a medically scribe, and this job helped her friend get into a family medicine residency spot...

But here’s the thing, I told her that sounds silly. I am a medical scribe and I haven’t started medical school. How is that impressive when applying for residency when I used it to apply for medical school? I don’t do anything but listen to the doctor and copy what he says into a word document and that fancy it up onto a health care record system. I personally don’t think a CCA is the same thing, but I have no idea what that is either.

Anyways, she wants me to ask what’s the BEST thing for her to do to get a family residency spot. Should she be doing research or getting a job to improve her chances? If she should be doing a job, then what’s the best job for her to do?


Thanks.
 
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deleted480308

Best thing is for her to exhibit the drive and capacity to create their own account. If they don’t have that, they will be unlikely to match as medicine is much harder
 
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Best thing is for her to exhibit the drive and capacity to create their own account. If they don’t have that, they will be unlikely to match as medicine is much harder

Ditto. Even assuming she can manage get a spot somehow, it would be difficult to practice medicine these days without being able to use the Internet and social media.
 
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Ditto. Even assuming she can manage get a spot somehow, it would be difficult to practice medicine these days without being able to use the Internet and social media.

Oh sorry, she uses social media, but not Reddit, SDN, discord, etc. I wish she would create them tbh, it’s kinda weird posting for someone else.
 

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Oh sorry, she uses social media, but not Reddit, SDN, discord, etc. I wish she would create them tbh, it’s kinda weird posting for someone else.

If she can't take initiative to step outside her comfort zone to make an account on a forum to inquire about her career options and paths, I'd question how much initiative and effort she'd put into her chosen career.
 
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If she can't take initiative to step outside her comfort zone to make an account on a forum to inquire about her career options and paths, I'd question how much initiative and effort she'd put into her chosen career.

Tbh, I don't disagree with you all. It isn't even hard to use SDN or reddit, I'm not sure why she won't make an account herself/and ask. Although, it is quite annoying when people assume I am talking about myself and will target me for it. I think it would save a lot of time & there would be far better advice if she just made an account herself, since I don't even know any of this or what it means because I'm technically a pre-med. But, I thought, I'd just post & ask anyways. No harm in it for me.
 
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I actually don't understand the situation your friend is in. Did she graduate last year and did not match after soaping and everything? Or, Is she soaping right now as this is the time? However, without social media account, she is miles behind for arming herself with all the good info from Reddit and SDN! Tell her to get up and creat her own account to be proactive in securing her future! If she graduated last year, what has she done for her situation till now?

But to answer question, scribing is not a bad idea. It gave you money to help out right now with the mountainous debt and if the attending is generous, it can be parlayed into a simulation of clerkship experience or intern-ish thing within the LOR.

"While she is formally working for as a medical scribe, I have allowed her frequently to offer management plan, patient presentation or perform physical exam in a simulation of 4th year medical student clerkship or intern year training. I am confident in her clinical skills and medical knowledge to recommend her as incoming intern to your program" BOOM and with that short sentence, her scribe job has just transformed into a respected medical rotation!

Beside if she can get a job in a Family medicine clinic that has faculty member of a residency program, that helps a lot to get her face to programs. Remember that PDs still have to see patients in their residency clinic too and those clinics often have scribes.

Other ways to help the situation is go to her local residency programs and ask them about open position and anything she can help out or what she can do for them to hire her. Going on Family medicine conference is also helpful to put her face to PDs and networking. I was told that it shows proactiveness.

Finally, your friend should already know the precarious position she is in and starts researching on what to do! A quick google search on that topics will yield lots of info. So is reading old forums on SDN without the need of accounts.
 
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I actually don't understand the situation your friend is in. Did she graduate last year and did not match after soaping and everything? Or, Is she soaping right now as this is the time? However, without social media account, she is miles behind for arming herself with all the good info from Reddit and SDN! Tell her to get up and creat her own account to be proactive in securing her future! If she graduated last year, what has she done for her situation till now?

But to answer question, scribing is not a bad idea. It gave you money to help out right now with the mountainous debt and if the attending is generous, it can be parlayed into a simulation of clerkship experience or intern-ish thing within the LOR.

"While she is formally working for as a medical scribe, I have allowed her frequently to offer management plan, patient presentation or perform physical exam in a simulation of 4th year medical student clerkship or intern year training. I am confident in her clinical skills and medical knowledge to recommend her as incoming intern to your program" BOOM and with that short sentence, her scribe job has just transformed into a respected medical rotation!

Beside if she can get a job in a Family medicine clinic that has faculty member of a residency program, that helps a lot to get her face to programs. Remember that PDs still have to see patients in their residency clinic too and those clinics often have scribes.

Other ways to help the situation is go to her local residency programs and ask them about open position and anything she can help out or what she can do for them to hire her. Going on Family medicine conference is also helpful to put her face to PDs and networking. I was told that it shows proactiveness.

Finally, your friend should already know the precarious position she is in and starts researching on what to do! A quick google search on that topics will yield lots of info. So is reading old forums on SDN without the need of accounts.

Wow thank you so much for all this advice, I will let her know. I will try my best to convince her to create SDN/Reddit, they have such amazing advice, and you can learn so much... But I have no idea why she won't make one haha.

In terms of her situation, honestly, I wish I could understand it too. But as a pre-med, I don't even know the timeline medical students go through. My friend basically started medical school in 2012 in Antigua, and she graduated in 2018. It is now 2020, basically for the past 2 years, she has been studying for her step 2 CK (since she failed it the first time), she took it recently, passed it with an ''okay'' score. Then, took step 2 CS, which she has not gotten the score for. Now, she is studying for step 3. She is behind I assume.

She NEVER applied for residency or did SOAP. This year will be her first time doing so. And, she has done nothing other than study for her boards. I asked her how she is so far behind and how it took her 6 years to finish medical school... She told me that Caribbean schools don't care when you take your board exams and so I guess she slacked off.
 

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Wow thank you so much for all this advice, I will let her know. I will try my best to convince her to create SDN/Reddit, they have such amazing advice, and you can learn so much... But I have no idea why she won't make one haha.

In terms of her situation, honestly, I wish I could understand it too. But as a pre-med, I don't even know the timeline medical students go through. My friend basically started medical school in 2012 in Antigua, and she graduated in 2018. It is now 2020, basically for the past 2 years, she has been studying for her step 2 CK (since she failed it the first time), she took it recently, passed it with an ''okay'' score. Then, took step 2 CS, which she has not gotten the score for. Now, she is studying for step 3. She is behind I assume.

She NEVER applied for residency or did SOAP. This year will be her first time doing so. And, she has done nothing other than study for her boards. I asked her how she is so far behind and how it took her 6 years to finish medical school... She told me that Caribbean schools don't care when you take your board exams and so I guess she slacked off.
Sorry...but frankly she sounds like she is pretty lazy...and lazy and Caribbean grad is not a formula for success...

And FYI, the more established Caribbean schools try to maintain the same schedule as US schools...6 years to complete school will have to be explained when she does finally decide to apply and if she actually manages to get a residency...

She perpetuates the stereotype of Caribbean Med students as being mediocre and give those of us that take the second chance to be doctors seriously...SMH!
 
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Wow thank you so much for all this advice, I will let her know. I will try my best to convince her to create SDN/Reddit, they have such amazing advice, and you can learn so much... But I have no idea why she won't make one haha.

In terms of her situation, honestly, I wish I could understand it too. But as a pre-med, I don't even know the timeline medical students go through. My friend basically started medical school in 2012 in Antigua, and she graduated in 2018. It is now 2020, basically for the past 2 years, she has been studying for her step 2 CK (since she failed it the first time), she took it recently, passed it with an ''okay'' score. Then, took step 2 CS, which she has not gotten the score for. Now, she is studying for step 3. She is behind I assume.

She NEVER applied for residency or did SOAP. This year will be her first time doing so. And, she has done nothing other than study for her boards. I asked her how she is so far behind and how it took her 6 years to finish medical school... She told me that Caribbean schools don't care when you take your board exams and so I guess she slacked off.

If what you are saying is the truth (not a troll) and you are who you said you are (and you seem to be based on your post history), your friend medical career is more or less toast. I cannot imagine what actions she can do to make it better, short of marrying a big wig or being a child of a big wig in the profession! I would say not to waste your time convincing her to make any accounts; for how could it now be helpful really? In any case, I suspect that she already knows the dire situation she is in but choose to be blind to it. She might herself has an account already. She is not entrant here; she is an old hand in this game!

@rokshana as an attending for many years and a graduate of a Carib school many years ago can explain better than me, your friend track record is horrendous to any residencies. She is most likely going to be filtered out when she finally applied for her board failure or her 6 years time in med school or 2 years since graduation or her carib status! The list is on and on... If, by some miracles, she was not filtered out, how is she going to explain herself to the PDs? The PDs will want to know why 6 years, why Caribbean, why CK failure, why took so long to take CS, why no clinical activities since graduation! The personal statement is not long enough to explain herself and each of the things I mentioned is a big major red flag on its own that can sink an application easily! I know of Caribbean candidates who only failed the CS (a more forgivable offence) who have great difficulty to even soap! Just go to any year SOAP thread and you will see their struggles.

So you see, I just cannot see a way out of this hole she dug herself at all. So let us talk about the situation that we can work with instead, yours! What can you do to secure yourself a residency? Try to do whatever she was not and still is not doing or just do the opposite of what she was doing; you can't be that wrong!
 
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deleted480308

Wow thank you so much for all this advice, I will let her know. I will try my best to convince her to create SDN/Reddit, they have such amazing advice, and you can learn so much... But I have no idea why she won't make one haha.

In terms of her situation, honestly, I wish I could understand it too. But as a pre-med, I don't even know the timeline medical students go through. My friend basically started medical school in 2012 in Antigua, and she graduated in 2018. It is now 2020, basically for the past 2 years, she has been studying for her step 2 CK (since she failed it the first time), she took it recently, passed it with an ''okay'' score. Then, took step 2 CS, which she has not gotten the score for. Now, she is studying for step 3. She is behind I assume.

She NEVER applied for residency or did SOAP. This year will be her first time doing so. And, she has done nothing other than study for her boards. I asked her how she is so far behind and how it took her 6 years to finish medical school... She told me that Caribbean schools don't care when you take your board exams and so I guess she slacked off.
Nevermind, the account is unnecessary. Just stop talking with them about it
 
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Wow thank you so much for all this advice, I will let her know. I will try my best to convince her to create SDN/Reddit, they have such amazing advice, and you can learn so much... But I have no idea why she won't make one haha.

In terms of her situation, honestly, I wish I could understand it too. But as a pre-med, I don't even know the timeline medical students go through. My friend basically started medical school in 2012 in Antigua, and she graduated in 2018. It is now 2020, basically for the past 2 years, she has been studying for her step 2 CK (since she failed it the first time), she took it recently, passed it with an ''okay'' score. Then, took step 2 CS, which she has not gotten the score for. Now, she is studying for step 3. She is behind I assume.

She NEVER applied for residency or did SOAP. This year will be her first time doing so. And, she has done nothing other than study for her boards. I asked her how she is so far behind and how it took her 6 years to finish medical school... She told me that Caribbean schools don't care when you take your board exams and so I guess she slacked off.

I am just perplexed by this. Doesn't she have any student loans. Waiting to take exams- step 2 CS 2 years later. This does not make any sense. She needs a reality check, she has been living in a bubble. For her to slack like this, unless she was extremely sick all those years, it doesn't make any sense for anyone who has passion for medicine. I would recommend the nonclinical route and calling it a day.
 
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If all the above information is true, her chance at a medical career essentially ended before it even got started based on what other folks have said. She can try scribing as a backdoor, but I wouldn't be hopeful about it. Her chance is not zero, but pretty darn close to zero.
 
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Well th
If what you are saying is the truth (not a troll) and you are who you said you are (and you seem to be based on your post history), your friend medical career is more or less toast. I cannot imagine what actions she can do to make it better, short of marrying a big wig or being a child of a big wig in the profession! I would say not to waste your time convincing her to make any accounts; for how could it now be helpful really? In any case, I suspect that she already knows the dire situation she is in but choose to be blind to it. She might herself has an account already. She is not entrant here; she is an old hand in this game!

@rokshana as an attending for many years and a graduate of a Carib school many years ago can explain better than me, your friend track record is horrendous to any residencies. She is most likely going to be filtered out when she finally applied for her board failure or her 6 years time in med school or 2 years since graduation or her carib status! The list is on and on... If, by some miracles, she was not filtered out, how is she going to explain herself to the PDs? The PDs will want to know why 6 years, why Caribbean, why CK failure, why took so long to take CS, why no clinical activities since graduation! The personal statement is not long enough to explain herself and each of the things I mentioned is a big major red flag on its own that can sink an application easily! I know of Caribbean candidates who only failed the CS (a more forgivable offence) who have great difficulty to even soap! Just go to any year SOAP thread and you will see their struggles.

So you see, I just cannot see a way out of this hole she dug herself at all. So let us talk about the situation that we can work with instead, yours! What can you do to secure yourself a residency? Try to do whatever she was not and still is not doing or just do the opposite of what she was doing; you can't be that wrong!

Well thank you for the advice anyways. I don’t really know how much trouble she is in, I’m only starting my first year of medical school on July 27th. But by what everyone is saying, it seems like she has really dug herself a hole — something I still am not fully aware the consequences of. But I will keep this all in the back of my mind for my own journey.
 

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Well th


Well thank you for the advice anyways. I don’t really know how much trouble she is in, I’m only starting my first year of medical school on July 27th. But by what everyone is saying, it seems like she has really dug herself a hole — something I still am not fully aware the consequences of. But I will keep this all in the back of my mind for my own journey.
For you, work hard, get the best grades you can, do your best on your boards, and when applying for residency, apply widely and broadly to give yourself the best chance to match.
1st year is learning about how to handle large volumes of material, 2nd year is about surviving 2nd year, 3rd year learning about how to learn from doing instead of sitting and listening to lectures, and 4th year...is the reward for 3rd year...
Good luck...it’s hard work, but worth it!

And if you are starting at anything other than a USMD program...all the more important to be at the top of your game.
 
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For you, work hard, get the best grades you can, do your best on your boards, and when applying for residency, apply widely and broadly to give yourself the best chance to match.
1st year is learning about how to handle large volumes of material, 2nd year is about surviving 2nd year, 3rd year learning about how to learn from doing instead of sitting and listening to lectures, and 4th year...is the reward for 3rd year...
Good luck...it’s hard work, but worth it!

And if you are starting at anything other than a USMD program...all the more important to at the top of your game.

:) Thank you so much Rokshana!! I applied to a DO program (which due to the P/F Step 1, might have its pitfalls), but I will surely take your advice and run with it :D. I love Emergency Medicine, and I hope to be able to be a part of it when I'm done.
 

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:) Thank you so much Rokshana!! I applied to a DO program (which due to the P/F Step 1, might have its pitfalls), but I will surely take your advice and run with it :D. I love Emergency Medicine, and I hope to be able to be a part of it when I'm done.
The good thing for you if EM stays your specialty(75% of 1st years change their minds by 4th year) of choice, they are pretty receptive to DOs.
 
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:) Thank you so much Rokshana!! I applied to a DO program (which due to the P/F Step 1, might have its pitfalls), but I will surely take your advice and run with it :D. I love Emergency Medicine, and I hope to be able to be a part of it when I'm done.

So are you going to a DO school or an offshore MD school starting in July?
 
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So are you going to a DO school or an offshore MD school starting in July?

I am going to a US DO school in July :). I posted this thread for someone who went to a Caribbean MD school since they didn't have an account.
 
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Not sure what and why you’re asking. Your friend failed a board exam, hasn’t taken the initiative to apply or done anything on their own. Your friend will not get a spot. Just be nice and humor them but don’t get too invested. If all possible, avoid the topic altogether.
 
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Not sure what and why you’re asking. Your friend failed a board exam, hasn’t taken the initiative to apply or done anything on their own. Your friend will not get a spot. Just be nice and humor them but don’t get too invested. If all possible, avoid the topic altogether.

I'll try, it's just hard since we are really close and knowing how much she's in trouble upsets me. Thank you for your advice though. I appreciate it.
 

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Took 6 years to finish a Caribbean med school, then failed a Step, never applied for residency in the first place and then spent the last 2 years "studying" for step 2CK?

Yeah she's toast. Don't even bother being a scribe. She'd make as much money working at Starbucks and have a better chance of becoming a manager there than getting a residency spot.
 
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I'll try, it's just hard since we are really close and knowing how much she's in trouble upsets me. Thank you for your advice though. I appreciate it.

Sadly, it's a no-win for her, career-wise, which makes it a no-win for you, friendship-wise.

Despite her MD degree, your friend is not going to be a doctor -- but you will. Congratulations on your own acceptance. Now take the ball and run with it --
 
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Sadly, I think we now know why she didn't make an account to ask this question--she already knows that it's a hopeless situation. The Carrib schools really are a scam. Completely unconscionable that they'll let someone meander towards graduation for 6 years, and collect her tuition money while they know the step 1 score likely killed her chances long before a step 2 failure truly ended it.
 
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For you, work hard, get the best grades you can, do your best on your boards, and when applying for residency, apply widely and broadly to give yourself the best chance to match.
1st year is learning about how to handle large volumes of material, 2nd year is about surviving 2nd year, 3rd year learning about how to learn from doing instead of sitting and listening to lectures, and 4th year...is the reward for 3rd year...
Good luck...it’s hard work, but worth it!

And if you are starting at anything other than a USMD program...all the more important to be at the top of your game.

She will excel in a DO program just as much as MD. Hate that in 2020 DOs still have to explain we match well.
 

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She will excel in a DO program just as much as MD. Hate that in 2020 DOs still have to explain we match well.

But that’s not the case...there are programs out there that will never take a DO, even with a single match... there are places that won’t take DO students for rotations...it’s the reality...sucks, but it is the reality...if you have not experienced this, then you have been lucky, but it’s there.
 
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I think your friend really only has some chance if she destroys step 3 (too late for steps 1/2), fosters relationships with people who have residency connections and starts meaningful clinical activity, such as a scribe/MA/assistant physician (Missouri). Even with all this, it would be strongly recommended to have solid backup plans for non-physician roles.
 

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Your friend has zero chance. She probably "made" it this far because people have told her otherwise. So leave it to some random internet person to get straight to the point: their medical career is DONE.

She needs to be looking into another career. But more importantly, she needs to look herself in the mirror and practice some honesty. It sounds like she needs to work on herself before attempting anything else, otherwise her personal shortcomings will just derail her on any future endeavors.
 
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