need help with bay area anesthesia job

[anesthesiafever]

Hi all,

I am a CA3 and will be completing residency in June 2017. I will not do a fellowship.

I am in one of the big anesthesia programs in Boston, MA.

My home is in the Bay Area and would love any leads.

Thank you!

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[Pharmado]

Ok, so you've gotten 3x as many views, but no more help. Sorry.

 

[Doughy315]

You need to go to CRNA school if you want to practice in the Bay Area or do a fellowship

 

[caligas]

You need to go to CRNA school if you want to practice in the Bay Area or do a fellowship

Would be interesting, albeit sad, to see an MD apply for a crna job.

 

[GravelRider]

Would be interesting, albeit sad, to see an MD apply for a crna job.

In a lot of regions, a crna job has better hourly pay than an employed job with a private practice or AMC.

 

[caligas]

In a lot of regions, a crna job has better hourly pay than an employed job with a private practice or AMC.

Plus lunch break.

I have to steal graham crackers and sneak them into the o.r.

 

[GravelRider]

Plus lunch break.

I have to steal graham crackers and sneak them into the o.r.

Oh yeah. It's crucial to have a stash of snacks in the bottom drawer of your cart. Once I figure out a way to get my French press and an electric kettle in the OR for coffee, I'll be set.

 

[SurferBoyMD]

Hi all,

I am a CA3 and will be completing residency in June 2017. I will not do a fellowship.

I am in one of the big anesthesia programs in Boston, MA.

My home is in the Bay Area and would love any leads.

Thank you!

Here are your options:

Work academia as a "clinical fellow" at UCSF or Stanford and then stay for life in academia.

Work for a management group like sheridan out in the east bay, I hear they are always looking: http://www.gaswork.com/post/182616

For desirable jobs in the area, you have to know someone on the inside, or you have to have a fellowship.

Or be a locums or per diem doc.

 

[aneftp]

In a lot of regions, a crna job has better hourly pay than an employed job with a private practice or AMC.

Yup. The ob Crna's at my old place make roughly 200k for essentially a 3 day work week with one weeekend 24 hour call a month. One 24 weekday call a week. They have one post call day off a week and one day off. Many of the male Crna's work extra duty on their day off either volunteer shifts. Or work at local surgery center. So they probably generate another 20-40k extra on top of the 200k if they work extra.

So they probably work 44/46 hours regular hours. One 24 hour weekday call. And OB isn't that busy. 4-5 deliveries a day. Weekends can go 24 hours with just 1-2 epiduruals.

 

[chocomorsel]

Isn't IlDestriero in the Bay area? Shoot him a PM.
You sure gonna live poor living out there. Making 300K plus but living like you make what, 60K for the rest of Americans away from the coasts? Is it worth it?

 

[GravelRider]

Isn't IlDestriero in the Bay area? Shoot him a PM.
You sure gonna live poor living out there. Making 300K plus but living like you make what, 60K for the rest of Americans away from the coasts? Is it worth it?

I am not sure about the Bay area, but you can live pretty comfortably in the major east coast cities on 300k. There are plenty of blue collar folks doing fine on the east coast. Yeah, you won't have a mansion in the Hamptons or a helicopter to take you to Nantucket, but you can have a nice house in a great town and still have plenty of money left over.

 

[deleted162650]

Isn't IlDestriero in the Bay area? Shoot him a PM.
You sure gonna live poor living out there. Making 300K plus but living like you make what, 60K for the rest of Americans away from the coasts? Is it worth it?

Il D is not Bay Area.

And yes, living coastal is worth it.

 

[HalO'Thane]

You need to go to CRNA school if you want to practice in the Bay Area or do a fellowship

Really? I thought the metropolitan areas of California were dominated by MD only practices?

 

[caligas]

Really? I thought the metropolitan areas of California were dominated by MD only practices?

That house is burning down fast.

Kaiser uses unsupervised CRNAs and many MD only groups are shifting to a partial supervision model.

 

[deleted162650]

Kaiser uses unsupervised CRNAs

Kaiser SD is actually slowly phasing out their CRNA's (not replacing the ones that are retiring). No need to pay 2 bodies to cover a room when you can hire an MD to work for minimally more than CRNA pay.

That house is burning down fast.

I don't think the AMC virus will spread as fast in an area composed primarily of equitable MD only groups. The incentive to sell out just isn't there when you have to split the sell-out pie so many ways (unless the group is overwhelmingly of retirement age). You are seeing groups moving toward hiring less partner track people and more either non-partner employees or independent contractors.

 

[nimbus]

Il D is not Bay Area.

And yes, living coastal is worth it.

Yes....

 

[turnupthegas]

100% worth it


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[aneftp]

Yes....
View attachment 209163
View attachment 209164

Very nice pic. Depends how far u want to live from the coastal areas in California.

My brothers house which he purchased at the absolute bottom of the housing market in 2010 is 4 miles from Seal beach and it was a "steal" for 1.8 million tear down. He could have gotten a foreclosure in Newport Beach beach front for a bargain 2.5 million (probably needed 300-400k updating)

The actual beach homes they usually split the homes to upper and lower level 1700-2500 square feet. So they split the homes. So it's not even single family but duplex go for 1.5- 3million.

So it's very expensive living especially with prop 30 and higher taxes for those making more than $500k.

You can move more inland and get single family homes for a $500-800k. But commute will kill you also.

 

[GravelRider]

I don't think the AMC virus will spread as fast in an area composed primarily of equitable MD only groups. The incentive to sell out just isn't there when you have to split the sell-out pie so many ways (unless the group is overwhelmingly of retirement age). You are seeing groups moving toward hiring less partner track people and more either non-partner employees or independent contractors.

But that's where it starts. Once you start concentrating the "power" or decision-making regarding the direction of the group of physicians, you start seeing sell outs. That's why AMCs spread like wildfire in the east. You had groups composed of a few superpartners and a larger collection of employees. These groups become easy targets for the AMC takeovers because you only need to convince a few and offer them a bit more money.

 

[cchoukal]

That house is burning down fast.

Kaiser uses unsupervised CRNAs and many MD only groups are shifting to a partial supervision model.

I practice in San Francisco and I have never heard of either of these phenomena. I have contacts from one of the local residencies at many of the major groups in town (several Kaisers, Summit, Marin General) and have not encountered what you're describing.

 

[aneftp]

But that's where it starts. Once you start concentrating the "power" or decision-making regarding the direction of the group of physicians, you start seeing sell outs. That's why AMCs spread like wildfire in the east. You had groups composed of a few superpartners and a larger collection of employees. These groups become easy targets for the AMC takeovers because you only need to convince a few and offer them a bit more money.

It's not really the super partners per se.

It's more the ACT models that sell out.

 

[GravelRider]

It's not really the super partners per se.

It's more the ACT models that sell out.

Many of the groups that sold out in the east were not heavy ACT models. Most were the superpartner type. Anytime the decision for the direction of a large group of people is made by a much smaller group of people, greed is likely to creep in. A superpartner group where the main workforce is employed MDs is not that much different than an ACT model where the main workforce is CRNAs.

 

[aneftp]

Many of the groups that sold out in the east were not heavy ACT models. Most were the superpartner type. Anytime the decision for the direction of a large group of people is made by a much smaller group of people, greed is likely to creep in. A superpartner group where the main workforce is employed MDs is not that much different than an ACT model where the main workforce is CRNAs.

Your definition of super partner is not the same as my definition.

A super partner (s) (2-3) controls 20-30 MDs and 100 Crna's.

 

[GravelRider]

Your definition of super partner is not the same as my definition.

A super partner (s) (2-3) controls 20-30 MDs and 100 Crna's.

Same definition. You are just referring to a larger group. There are plenty of all or mostly MD groups of 15-30 MDs and 3 or 4 superpartners who make the decisions. There might even be a handful of "junior partners" in that mix. They tend not to have equal say with those "super partners." In the end, these groups end up being similar to a pyramid scheme.

 

[deleted50478]

Kaiser SD is actually slowly phasing out their CRNA's (not replacing the ones that are retiring). No need to pay 2 bodies to cover a room when you can hire an MD to work for minimally more than CRNA pay.



I don't think the AMC virus will spread as fast in an area composed primarily of equitable MD only groups. The incentive to sell out just isn't there when you have to split the sell-out pie so many ways (unless the group is overwhelmingly of retirement age). You are seeing groups moving toward hiring less partner track people and more either non-partner employees or independent contractors.

What do you mean the AMC virus won't spread? The situation you are describing is a former group practice that is now an AMC.

 

[deleted162650]

What do you mean the AMC virus won't spread? The situation you are describing is a former group practice that is now an AMC.

I'm referring to the SoCal anesthesia market which as of today, is largely devoid of AMC's. I'm aware of the East Bay MAC sellout a few years ago.

I never said that SoCal is AMC proof, just that it will be a slower more difficult process for AMC's to gain significant market share here due to the predominant group structure in the area.

And a group that transitions to hiring non-partner track people is not suddenly an AMC. AMC's are run by 3rd party non-clinical suits. I'm talking about groups that are composed of 20-30 MD partners and have maybe a handful of non-partner employees that are typically serving a mommy-track sort of role.

 

[deleted50478]

I'm referring to the SoCal anesthesia market which as of today, is largely devoid of AMC's. I'm aware of the East Bay MAC sellout a few years ago.

I never said that SoCal is AMC proof, just that it will be a slower more difficult process for AMC's to gain significant market share here due to the predominant group structure in the area.

And a group that transitions to hiring non-partner track people is not suddenly an AMC. AMC's are run by 3rd party non-clinical suits. I'm talking about groups that are composed of 20-30 MD partners and have maybe a handful of non-partner employees that are typically serving a mommy-track sort of role.

If they hire non-partner track people to make money off them not because the employed docs want a mommy track, then they are an AMC. Plus employed jobs aren't necessarily mommy tracks anymore, they may take more call and work more than the partners/AMC members.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

If they hire non-partner track people to make money off them not because the employed docs want a mommy track, then they are an AMC. Plus employed jobs aren't necessarily mommy tracks anymore, they may take more call and work more than the partners/AMC members.

Disagree. There are circumstances that an anesthesiologist wants a "mommy-track" position provided the income, benefits and call schedule (if applicable) are reasonable.

 

[deleted50478]

Disagree. There are circumstances that an anesthesiologist wants a "mommy-track" position provided the income, benefits and call schedule (if applicable) are reasonable.

I'm not saying no one ever wants a mommy track job, or that there is anything wrong with mommy tracks.

I'm saying that when a group employs docs who are not in mommy track jobs, who work the same as (or more than) the partners including taking call, then that group is now an AMC.

It depends on the motivation for offering an employed position. If a group needs help in the day but not with call and offers a mommy track position- cool, nothing wrong with that. If a group needs more people working a partner schedule but offers an employed position so they can take the money the new guy earns, then they are an AMC.

 

[GravelRider]

I'm not saying no one ever wants a mommy track job, or that there is anything wrong with mommy tracks.

I'm saying that when a group employs docs who are not in mommy track jobs, who work the same as (or more than) the partners including taking call, then that group is now an AMC.

It depends on the motivation and timing. If a group needs help in the day but not with call and offers a mommy track position- cool, nothing wrong with that. If a group needs more people working a partner schedule but offers an employed position so they can take the money the new guy earns, then they are an AMC and they are dinguses.

Agreed. In a lot of these "super partner" groups, the employed docs actually work more...a lot more...than those partners. Often times lies or fake partner tracks are used to get people into those employed positions. This is something totally different than a "mommy track" job (I hate that term, by the way).

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Many of the groups that sold out in the east were not heavy ACT models. Most were the superpartner type.

Like who?

I know of one group although by no means do I know it all.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

I've worked in both Socal and the Bay Area. I know people working in all practice settings in CA - Kaiser both NorCal and Socal, many different PP groups, amc, academics. Plenty of conjecture and inaccurate info in this thread.

 

[chocomorsel]

Il D is not Bay Area.

And yes, living coastal is worth it.

He is always talking of either Stanford or UCSF. Can't recall which one right now. And of how he lives in a desirable area that's super expensive and has to rent cuz he can't afford to buy. I thought it was San Fran, but could be wrong.

 

[chocomorsel]

I am not sure about the Bay area, but you can live pretty comfortably in the major east coast cities on 300k. There are plenty of blue collar folks doing fine on the east coast. Yeah, you won't have a mansion in the Hamptons or a helicopter to take you to Nantucket, but you can have a nice house in a great town and still have plenty of money left over.

How much is a "nice house" in the East Coast? I am talking NYC/NJ/DC/MD cities. I mean like 2700 SF house not on a post card lot with a pool? At least 600K-700K? And the taxes are pretty outrageous. Like 15- 20 K year if not more? I am from the South, and that is pricey to me.

 

[GravelRider]

How much is a "nice house" in the East Coast? I am talking NYC/NJ/DC/MD cities. I mean like 2700 SF house not on a post card lot with a pool? At least 600K-700K? And the taxes are pretty outrageous. Like 15- 20 K year if not more? I am from the South, and that is pricey to me.

Oh no doubt it's expensive, but you won't be poor with a 300k salary. Obviously the closer to the cities, the more expensive. Thr property taxes are high, but the teachers and police are generally paid pretty well.

 

[aneftp]

How much is a "nice house" in the East Coast? I am talking NYC/NJ/DC/MD cities. I mean like 2700 SF house not on a post card lot with a pool? At least 600K-700K? And the taxes are pretty outrageous. Like 15- 20 K year if not more? I am from the South, and that is pricey to me.

This is what $750k will buy u in a good area with good public schools in DC area. 1500 square foot townhouse built in 1980s in McLean/Langley Virginia (next to DC)

I grew up around the area. My buddy has 1980s single family house near Colin Powell in McLean and those run starting near 2 mil.

My sister (2700 square foot plus finished basement 1200 square foot) lives in Tysons Corner part of McLean/Vienna and the single family houses "drop" to around 1 million (built in 1990s). Move a little further out and you can get nice single family homes in the $700-800s but depending where you work. Traffic can be a bear.

My other buddy lives in Bethesda Maryland and his 1980s home is 1.1 million 3000 square foot.

Bare in mind. There are a lot of overpaid govt contractors etc, federal workers. Even public school teachers make $70-100k depending on experience. A federal worker on the job for 10-15 years can easily make $70k with no real degree.

2 household income with both couples doing BS govt jobs (say $70k a year plus benefits). That's basically $140k household income in many parts of the Washington DC suburbs. Which means that "middle class" family should be able to afford a $500k home.

 

[deleted162650]

This is what $750k will buy u in a good area with good public schools in DC area. 1500 square foot townhouse built in 1980s in McLean/Langley Virginia (next to DC)

I grew up around the area. My buddy has 1980s single family house near Colin Powell in McLean and those run starting near 2 mil.

My sister (2700 square foot plus finished basement 1200 square foot) lives in Tysons Corner part of McLean/Vienna and the single family houses "drop" to around 1 million (built in 1990s). Move a little further out and you can get nice single family homes in the $700-800s but depending where you work. Traffic can be a bear.

My other buddy lives in Bethesda Maryland and his 1980s home is 1.1 million 3000 square foot.

Bare in mind. There are a lot of overpaid govt contractors etc, federal workers. Even public school teachers make $70-100k depending on experience. A federal worker on the job for 10-15 years can easily make $70k with no real degree.

2 household income with both couples doing BS govt jobs (say $70k a year plus benefits). That's basically $140k household income in many parts of the Washington DC suburbs. Which means that "middle class" family should be able to afford a $500k home.

Damn. That's worse than SoCal and you have to put up with crappy weather and all those slimey creepy crawlies (the politicians, not the insects)

 

[aneftp]

Damn. That's worse than SoCal and you have to put up with crappy weather and all those slimey creepy crawlies (the politicians, not the insects)

Unfortunately it sucks for the medical profession. Cause medical incomes adjusted against housing pricing ratio compared to other parts of the country is in reality just "upper middle class housing prices"

It's a good deal for regular working joes with barely bachelors degrees or some college where they can be making a good living wage plus benefits. The incomes for the South for regular joes are much less than in richer parts of the country.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Kaiser uses unsupervised CRNAs and many MD only groups are shifting to a partial supervision model.

Citation needed.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Hi all,

I am a CA3 and will be completing residency in June 2017. I will not do a fellowship.

I am in one of the big anesthesia programs in Boston, MA.

My home is in the Bay Area and would love any leads.

Many Bay Area groups have websites with contact info. It's true you aren't gonna see a lot of jobs on Gaswork etc. You can always call OR front desks and find out who the anesthesia coordinator is.

 

[nimbus]

If you're in a big Boston program, you should have some contacts in the Bay Area. Use them.

 

[B-Bone]

Citation needed.

One of my good friends works at Kaiser in Fontana/Ontario, and their practice runs the gamut from MD only to medical direction to medical supervision to independent CRNA practice. Granted this is not NorCal, but it is Kaiser CA.


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[deleted162650]

One of my good friends works at Kaiser in Fontana/Ontario

Poor guy. All the down sides to a BFE job (Fontucky) but with the benefit of CA taxes!!

 

[waterbottle10]

How much is a "nice house" in the East Coast? I am talking NYC/NJ/DC/MD cities. I mean like 2700 SF house not on a post card lot with a pool? At least 600K-700K? And the taxes are pretty outrageous. Like 15- 20 K year if not more? I am from the South, and that is pricey to me.

m+
IN NYC a 2700 sq house is 1M+ in most decent areas. Obviously the high crime rate areas and Staten Island run cheaper. But Manhattan runs much more, prob 3m+, and so do areas of brooklyn and queens

 

[fakin' the funk]

One of my good friends works at Kaiser in Fontana/Ontario, and their practice runs the gamut from MD only to medical direction to medical supervision to independent CRNA practice. Granted this is not NorCal, but it is Kaiser CA.

Kaiser Northern and Southern California are separate institutions.

 

[chocomorsel]

This is what $750k will buy u in a good area with good public schools in DC area. 1500 square foot townhouse built in 1980s in McLean/Langley Virginia (next to DC)

I grew up around the area. My buddy has 1980s single family house near Colin Powell in McLean and those run starting near 2 mil.

My sister (2700 square foot plus finished basement 1200 square foot) lives in Tysons Corner part of McLean/Vienna and the single family houses "drop" to around 1 million (built in 1990s). Move a little further out and you can get nice single family homes in the $700-800s but depending where you work. Traffic can be a bear.

My other buddy lives in Bethesda Maryland and his 1980s home is 1.1 million 3000 square foot.

Bare in mind. There are a lot of overpaid govt contractors etc, federal workers. Even public school teachers make $70-100k depending on experience. A federal worker on the job for 10-15 years can easily make $70k with no real degree.

2 household income with both couples doing BS govt jobs (say $70k a year plus benefits). That's basically $140k household income in many parts of the Washington DC suburbs. Which means that "middle class" family should be able to afford a $500k home.

Good lord, for 750K where I live I can get a 5000 SF house on a decent size lot of at least a quarter acre. Damn, I can not imagine paying that for 1500 SF. And for a million dollars here, I can live damn well. In a mansion, on at least half an acre.
My budget is 500K on an income of 300K. Guess I am a cheapskate.

 

[Twiggidy]

Hi all,

I am a CA3 and will be completing residency in June 2017. I will not do a fellowship.

I am in one of the big anesthesia programs in Boston, MA.

My home is in the Bay Area and would love any leads.

Thank you!

Ok, having sifted through this thread and seeing some truths and some myths, I'll chime in as a person who work in the area you're looking for. One of the early responses was mostly true. If you want to live in the city, damn near BEG for a job at UCSF or live on the Peninsula and BEG for a job at Stanford. If you want to buy a house, either win the lotto or live in a transitional neighborhood and a wait for it the gentrify, which given this area, it will. You might need a fellowship for either of those places. If you want a private job, as was said above, start with Sheridan in the East Bay. It's the biggest group and best chance, but still, this is the Bay Area, so you're competing with locals and everyone else on the west. If you want any other private job like in the North Bay or South Bay, you better have some friends in those hospitals and hope they're hiring because that's the only way you're getting in. When my group was hiring, just about every CV had the words "Stanford" in it. This area is very inbred. If you're up for a drive there may be stuff in the Central Valley, like Stockton or Modesto, but you'll spend most of you life commuting on these what can be dangerous Bay Area freeways. Not sure about Kaiser or how you get in. I had a friend that works there and I asked her about a job and she just didn't reply. Not sure what that means. So you can even have an "in" and not get success.

California is WONDERFUL as you know, but the thing that people are saying about housing, taxes, job market changes, etc are mostly true. Unless you have strong family ties to the Bay Area, I would try LA as the jobs seem a bit more "lifestyle". That's just my impression from Gaswork. In LA you can probably get a 350k-400k home call job. You won't get that here because no group will offer it because no group will have anyone quit so you can get it. Unless someone on this board has a group that's hiring, you won't find a lead, because if they have a lead for a good job, they're going for it themselves. That's just kind of how it is around here. That's just my 2c

 

[Twiggidy]

Just to follow up @anesthesiafever there is a fellow board member actually offering a job opportunity on the board. it's in Dallas, which financially at least, isn't the worst place for a doctor to live. you should at least check with @amyl and see what it's about.

 

[gasresident1]

Has the landscape changed?? What about this group

Anesthesia Care Associates – Delivering Expert Patient Care & Practice Management

www.acamedicalgroup.com

Not much on gasworks. Any private practice groups in the area 500k-600k 1099 jobs for non fellowship anesthesiologists?

 

[thinkorswim]

Has the landscape changed?? What about this group

Anesthesia Care Associates – Delivering Expert Patient Care & Practice Management

www.acamedicalgroup.com

Not much on gasworks. Any private practice groups in the area 500k-600k 1099 jobs for non fellowship anesthesiologists?

The landscape of SF itself has certainly changed… but with regards to jobs, I don’t know. With the exception of Kaiser, I would imagine the jobs there are still competitive but perhaps not as exclusive these days.

As for the group you posted, I only had a brief phone call with them a few years ago so my information may be dated. They seemed nice and a popular landing spot for UCSF residents at the time. They’ll have you driving all around the city and the money wasn’t anything to write home about. They also had this weird thing of hiring new people and then placing them into either a partnership or associate (non-partnership) track after about a year. It just seemed odd. They also couldn’t give me a timeline on cardiac and only promised a few liver transplants to keep up my skills.

I passed.