Need help with my options (foreign HS student, want to practice in US/Canada)

[PhotonMan62]

Hello. I've recently been researching the options that are available to me but have found it very confusing. I'm looking for helpful links or explanations so I can orient myself more.

Here's some info on my current situation:
I was born in Canada and have Canadian citizenship.
I am completely fluent in English.
At 9 I moved to Poland and have stayed ever since, so for all of junior high and high school.
At the moment I have 1.5 years until I finish high school.

I want the end result of my education to be so that I can practice in the US or Canada (preferably in the US - my personal dream is New Hampshire). I will most likely be studying dentistry, but there is a slim chance of medicine as well.

From what I gather I have 2 main options:
1) After finishing high school in Poland, trying to get into a US or Canada medical school
This one seems to be quite unlikely, I imagine there would be many problems with accepting the Polish matura (end-of-HS exam) and then going to the US to write an entrance exam (I'd also need to do 1 year of various science courses before a medical university would even consider me). Funding isn't the greatest problem, I would be able to get most of the money and maybe get a loan/scholarship for the rest. Still, I have read some opinions saying that it is still better to do all of one's courses in the US and be done with it that way.

2) Finishing a dental diploma in Poland and validating the degree in the US or Canada
To me this seems to be the more likely route, but I've read that foreign dentists and doctors can have huge problems with getting licensed in the US. Canada has an even worse reputation. It seems convenient because Poland has "free" medical universities and longer and harder programs (dentists study for 5 years), then I would validate the diploma in the US (I believe an extra 2-year course for foreign dentists is required? maybe this can be circumvented with residency?).

What seems to be the better option? I've read many pros and cons of both, but it's really hard to decide because I can't find clear info on things like licensing, verification etc.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Textbookversion]

You need to apply to college in Canada or the U.S. In the U.S. you need to complete a college degree before beginning medical or dental school.

You are a Canadian citizen, so why not try and practice in Canada? It's not easy immigrating to the U.S.

 

[Medstart108]

Hello. I've recently been researching the options that are available to me but have found it very confusing. I'm looking for helpful links or explanations so I can orient myself more.

Here's some info on my current situation:
I was born in Canada and have Canadian citizenship.
I am completely fluent in English.
At 9 I moved to Poland and have stayed ever since, so for all of junior high and high school.
At the moment I have 1.5 years until I finish high school.

I want the end result of my education to be so that I can practice in the US or Canada (preferably in the US - my personal dream is New Hampshire). I will most likely be studying dentistry, but there is a slim chance of medicine as well.

From what I gather I have 2 main options:
1) After finishing high school in Poland, trying to get into a US or Canada medical school
This one seems to be quite unlikely, I imagine there would be many problems with accepting the Polish matura (end-of-HS exam) and then going to the US to write an entrance exam (I'd also need to do 1 year of various science courses before a medical university would even consider me). Funding isn't the greatest problem, I would be able to get most of the money and maybe get a loan/scholarship for the rest. Still, I have read some opinions saying that it is still better to do all of one's courses in the US and be done with it that way.

2) Finishing a dental diploma in Poland and validating the degree in the US or Canada
To me this seems to be the more likely route, but I've read that foreign dentists and doctors can have huge problems with getting licensed in the US. Canada has an even worse reputation. It seems convenient because Poland has "free" medical universities and longer and harder programs (dentists study for 5 years), then I would validate the diploma in the US (I believe an extra 2-year course for foreign dentists is required? maybe this can be circumvented with residency?).

What seems to be the better option? I've read many pros and cons of both, but it's really hard to decide because I can't find clear info on things like licensing, verification etc.

I don't know about dental, but for medicine, i would recommend that you go to university in Canada. If you want the best chances to become a doctor, go to a university in Alberta and avoid Ontario. Universities in Alberta will allow you to have albertan residency. This will allow you to apply to both Ontario and Albertan medical schools.

 

[PhotonMan62]

You need to apply to college in Canada or the U.S. In the U.S. you need to complete a college degree before beginning medical or dental school.

You are a Canadian citizen, so why not try and practice in Canada? It's not easy immigrating to the U.S.

Will there be any problems with them accepting a foreign high school diploma? And colleges offer courses like "Physics I", "Chemistry I/II" that med universities require, right?

 

[Medstart108]

Will there be any problems with them accepting a foreign high school diploma? And colleges offer courses like "Physics I", "Chemistry I/II" that med universities require, right?

No there will not be any problems accepting a foreign high school diploma. University is very easy to get into in Canada, (i.e. if you can't get into university in Canada, you aren't suitable really to be a doctor). Look up international, many schools tell you their requirements from foreign countries. Many internationals study in Canada for undergraduate so u won't be alone.

Colleges will offer the courses that med schools require. Once you are in undergrad in Canada or the US, you need to follow the premed track.

Yes for medical school (which is a postgraduate degree in NA) you will need to take the MCAT and go to a University in Canada or the US.

For medicine you have two options:

University in Canada/US - 4 years(preferably Canada because you don't have US citizenship and many US med schools accept only US citizens (only 30 or so accept Canadians and most are the most selective ones)

Medical School in Canada/US - 4 years

Residency in US/Canada

This options may be difficult depending on your work habits and your intelligence. If you are very very smart (top in your class in poland), this option is definitely the best. It takes 8 years, can be as low as 5 (very rare) (you need to go to Alberta then apply to Calgary in your 2nd year) You won't suffer discrimination, and you will be able to do any specialty you want even high paying ones like neurosurgery, dermatology, radiology, plastic surgery.

2nd option - Much less desirable

Medical School in Poland - 5/6 years

Residency in US/Canada

This option will take less time, but u will need to work a lot harder to study for the USMLEs. You might never be able to practice in the US/Canada and you will probably suffer some sort of discrimination based on your degree. Also you will be restricted to primary care specialties and low ranking residency programs.

 

[PhotonMan62]

No there will not be any problems accepting a foreign high school diploma. University is very easy to get into in Canada, (i.e. if you can't get into university in Canada, you aren't suitable really to be a doctor). Look up international, many schools tell you their requirements from foreign countries. Many internationals study in Canada for undergraduate so u won't be alone.

Colleges will offer the courses that med schools require. Once you are in undergrad in Canada or the US, you need to follow the premed track.

Yes for medical school (which is a postgraduate degree in NA) you will need to take the MCAT and go to a University in Canada or the US.

For medicine you have two options:

University in Canada/US - 4 years(preferably Canada because you don't have US citizenship and many US med schools accept only US citizens (only 30 or so accept Canadians and most are the most selective ones)

Medical School in Canada/US - 4 years

Residency in US/Canada

This options may be difficult depending on your work habits and your intelligence. If you are very very smart (top in your class in poland), this option is definitely the best. It takes 8 years, can be as low as 5 (very rare) (you need to go to Alberta then apply to Calgary in your 2nd year) You won't suffer discrimination, and you will be able to do any specialty you want even high paying ones like neurosurgery, dermatology, radiology, plastic surgery.

2nd option - Much less desirable

Medical School in Poland - 5/6 years

Residency in US/Canada

This option will take less time, but u will need to work a lot harder to study for the USMLEs. You might never be able to practice in the US/Canada and you will probably suffer some sort of discrimination based on your degree. Also you will be restricted to primary care specialties and low ranking residency programs.

So in short, the best way would be:

1) Finishing high school in Poland
2) Applying to a Canadian college to do the undergraduate courses (pre-med) that med universities require
3) When finishing those courses, going into a med university
4) Finishing a medical course (~4 years)
5) Doing a specialization if needed
6) Residency

Are there any major differences for dentists, or is the general path the same?

 

[Medstart108]

So in short, the best way would be:

1) Finishing high school in Poland
2) Applying to a Canadian college to do the undergraduate courses (pre-med) that med universities require
3) When finishing those courses, going into a med university
4) Finishing a medical course (~4 years)
5) Doing a specialization if needed
6) Residency

Are there any major differences for dentists, or is the general path the same?

Yes. You don't need step 5. After medical school, you enter straight into residency. You specialize for residency.

If you really want, after med school in Canada you can do residency in the US which would make you eligible to practice there. There is no discrimination if you finish med school in Canada/US and want to do residency in the other country.

The path is the exact same for dentists except you go to dental school.

 

[PhotonMan62]

Yes. You don't need step 5. After medical school, you enter straight into residency. You specialize for residency.

If you really want, after med school in Canada you can do residency in the US which would make you eligible to practice there. There is no discrimination if you finish med school in Canada/US and want to do residency in the other country.

The path is the exact same for dentists except you go to dental school.

Excellent, thanks for all the help. Guess I'll have to message various Canadian universities about their premed programs and research the associated costs. Do you know of any possible scholarships I could apply for?

 

[Medstart108]

Excellent, thanks for all the help. Guess I'll have to message various Canadian universities about their premed programs and research the associated costs. Do you know of any possible scholarships I could apply for?

Go to studentawards.com. They have great scholarships for Canadian universities, i don't know about eligibility though.

 

[O2Doc]

Excellent, thanks for all the help. Guess I'll have to message various Canadian universities about their premed programs and research the associated costs. Do you know of any possible scholarships I could apply for?

You don't need a premed program, any degree will do as long as you also do the necessary prerequisite courses. So you could major in Philosophy if you wanted, for ex, as long as you researched the med school entry requirements (and different med schools have different ones) and made sure you took those prerequisites. A "premed"-like degree just makes that easier because it organizes most of it for you.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

So in short, the best way would be:

1) Finishing high school in Poland
2) Applying to a Canadian college to do the undergraduate courses (pre-med) that med universities require
3) When finishing those courses, going into a med university
4) Finishing a medical course (~4 years)
5) Doing a specialization if needed
6) Residency

Don't want to burst anyone's bubble here, but I wanted to point out that Step 3 is a huge bottleneck. Canadian med schools are amazingly competitive. Although I have no direct experience, posters on SDN suggest that getting in without a GPA of 3.8 and a high MCAT score is impossible. Many canadians end up in med school overseas (often Ireland and the Carib) because they can't get in to Canadian schools.

Some US schools accept Canadian students. Some don't offer any financial assistance to international students.

If you end up doing the other path you mentioned (Med school abroad), then the bottleneck is at Step 6. You will find it increasingly difficult to get US training when your medical training is abroad, and the range of fields you can go into is limited. Nothing is impossible, but it can be an uphill battle (and there's some suggestion that it may get worse for IMG's in the future, but no one really knows)

So, yes, the above plan is the "best". But it's not easy.

 

[Medstart108]

Don't want to burst anyone's bubble here, but I wanted to point out that Step 3 is a huge bottleneck. Canadian med schools are amazingly competitive. Although I have no direct experience, posters on SDN suggest that getting in without a GPA of 3.8 and a high MCAT score is impossible. Many canadians end up in med school overseas (often Ireland and the Carib) because they can't get in to Canadian schools.

Some US schools accept Canadian students. Some don't offer any financial assistance to international students.

If you end up doing the other path you mentioned (Med school abroad), then the bottleneck is at Step 6. You will find it increasingly difficult to get US training when your medical training is abroad, and the range of fields you can go into is limited. Nothing is impossible, but it can be an uphill battle (and there's some suggestion that it may get worse for IMG's in the future, but no one really knows)

So, yes, the above plan is the "best". But it's not easy.

Hey, its medicine. Theres gotta be a bottleneck somewhere

 

[PhotonMan62]

All right, I've exchanged some emails with the University of Alberta (which was my first choice in Canada) and they do accept international end-of-HS exams. Since I am a Canadian citizen, I pay the lower tuition.

And yes, I know that dentistry is very competitive (especially for Canadians due to the shortage of schools). But hey, I've successfully worked my ass off for all these years knowing that most of what I've learned is useless. I'll just be more motivated now knowing that what I learn will be necessary to get my dream job.

In 2012 there were 239 Alberta applicants for the 33 available spaces. That's just over 7 people per space, compared to Poland's ~21. The smallest GPA that got in was 3.66. I guess I'll manage, it's just the DAT I'm scared of (especially the soap-carving part!).

 

[Medstart108]

All right, I've exchanged some emails with the University of Alberta (which was my first choice in Canada) and they do accept international end-of-HS exams. Since I am a Canadian citizen, I pay the lower tuition.

And yes, I know that dentistry is very competitive (especially for Canadians due to the shortage of schools). But hey, I've successfully worked my ass off for all these years knowing that most of what I've learned is useless. I'll just be more motivated now knowing that what I learn will be necessary to get my dream job.

In 2012 there were 239 Alberta applicants for the 33 available spaces. That's just over 7 people per space, compared to Poland's ~21. The smallest GPA that got in was 3.66. I guess I'll manage, it's just the DAT I'm scared of (especially the soap-carving part!).

That looks good, good luck.