Need honest opinion on Pre-Dental school situation.

[cassiewright]

Hello,
I am an undergraduate student currently attend school for a degree in Bio-Medical Engineering. It will get me into dental school (as in it meets the requirements) and it is an impressive degree to have.
This engineering program is kicking my butt and I need to make a decision about whether or not to keep this major.

I work as a Dental assistant, I started my senior year of high school. I also did a HOSA Dental Science Competition, and placed 3rd in the nation.

I want to know who gets in to dental school and why. Should I stay with the harder degree that, quite frankly, isnt making me very happy? OR
Should I switch maybe to a pre-med or something like that major?

HOW IMPORTANT IS GPA COMPARED TO EXPERIENCE AND DEGREE?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[ModifiedBass]

GPA and DAT are by far the most important factors when it comes to the application process. You can get into dental school with pretty much any degree you want, as long as you perform well in all prerequisites. Of course it is looked upon favorably if you do well in upper-level science classes, but there are many that get in without them. Experience is great, especially working as a Dental Assistant for an extended period of time during school, but nothing comes close to GPA/DAT. If your major is really hurting your GPA and you are not happy with it, I would highly recommend switching, as having a degree in Bio-Med Engineering won't give you a leg up over others with say a Bio/Chem/Bio-Chem degree. However, a Bio-Med Eng degree would provide you with many more job opportunities in the event that dental school doesn't pan out (worse case scenario, which I don't think you should have to worry about considering your limited provided background).

 

[Jungerr]

Your major won't get you into dental school. Your GPA and DAT scores will.

And don't mention in your application that your major is an impressive degree to have.

 

[Miley Cyrus.]

Drop the major. Switch to the easiest science major you can find. GPA and DAT get you in. Nobody cares about your major. I heard you need a masters or PhD to get a good bioE job, so its not like bioE is a good 'backup' anyways.

 

[cassiewright]

@GJMeig I suppose an appropriate follow-up question would be what is the recommended GPA and DAT scores.
I of course know the minimum to get into the dental school I am looking at, just what would be recommended?

 

[Slumber]

@GJMeig I suppose an appropriate follow-up question would be what is the recommended GPA and DAT scores.
I of course know the minimum to get into the dental school I am looking at, just what would be recommended?

4.0 and 30.

All kidding aside, just try to maintain a good 3.5+ gpa and score 22+ on the DAT.

 

[Datooth]

4.0 and 30.

All kidding aside, just try to maintain a good 3.5+ gpa and score 22+ on the DAT.

22+ is a bit of a stretch. The average last year was 19.8. Obviously the higher the better but setting your sites on a 20 is good enough.

 

[Slumber]

22+ is a bit of a stretch. The average last year was 19.8. Obviously the higher the better but setting your sites on a 20 is good enough.

So because average is 19.8, we have to settle for a 20? I wouldn't "recommend" the OP to be "average". 4.0/30 is a stretch. 3.5/22 aint.

 

[Datooth]

So because average is 19.8, we have to settle for a 20? I wouldn't "recommend" the OP to be "average". 4.0/30 is a stretch. 3.5/22 aint.

Fair enough. It just seemed odd to recommend scoring 93th+ percentile on the DAT while also suggesting 3.5

 

[Slumber]

Fair enough. It just seemed odd to recommend scoring 93th+ percentile on the DAT while also suggesting 3.5

What's so odd about wanting to be the cream of the crop? Or do you prefer to condemn OP to a life of mediocrity? It's not like I'm asking the OP to commit social suicide or anything. Switch to an easier major while maintaining good grade, and kill the DAT. Not even a 3.5/22 can guarantee ds admission, but it will certainly put OP in a better spot than most applicants.

 

[Datooth]

What's so odd about wanting to be the cream of the crop? Or do you prefer to condemn OP to a life of mediocrity? It's not like I'm asking the OP to commit social suicide or anything. Switch to an easier major while maintaining good grade, and kill the DAT. Not even a 3.5/22 can guarantee ds admission, but it will certainly put OP in a better spot than most applicants.

Its not that what you're suggesting is wrong its just that its imbalanced. A score of 22 is not equivalent to a 3.5.

 

[Slumber]

Its not that what you're suggesting is wrong its just that its imbalanced. A score of 22 is not equivalent to a 3.5.

Well I didn't exactly pull out a chart in my head to compare what DAT score is equivalent to a 3.5 gpa. Be it 3.6/22 or 3.7/22 or 3.5/21, Just strive for something other than mediocrity.

 

[MBlue16]

... scoring 93th+ percentile on the DAT ...

Just want to remind you that as high as it may seem, a lot of ppl are taking DAT more than once (they can ignore their lower DAT score, but the score is still in the pool and included in percentile calculation). That means, you are actually competing with ppl in higher DAT pool.

 

[techyguy]

Just want to remind you that as high as it may seem, a lot of ppl are taking DAT more than once (they can ignore their lower DAT score, but the score is still in the pool and included in percentile calculation). That means, you are actually competing with ppl in higher DAT pool.

What do you mean? If someone makes an 18/18/18 and then a 22/22/22, schools will report a 20/20/20 for them even though it was the second one that got them in? That doesn't make any sense. It actually seems like blatant dishonesty.

Sorry for derailing your thread, OP.

Nevertheless, I would recommend sticking with Biomedical Engineering, but only because I don't personally like that people take the easy route to a high GPA. It's cutting corners, or at least running away from a challenge. However, if you're not in love with what you're learning, I guess you don't have any attachment to it.

 

[Slumber]

What do you mean? If someone makes an 18/18/18 and then a 22/22/22, schools will report a 20/20/20 for them even though it was the second one that got them in? That doesn't make any sense. It actually seems like blatant dishonesty.

No, I think he meant that the lower scores will remain the the score pool regardless of how many times someone retake their DAT.

Nevertheless, I would recommend sticking with Biomedical Engineering, but only because I don't personally like that people take the easy route to a high GPA. It's cutting corners, or at least running away from a challenge. However, if you're not in love with what you're learning, I guess you don't have any attachment to it.

The end justifies the mean. Plus, OP is unhappy with her current major so all the more reason to switch to a new major.

 

[Datooth]

What do you mean? If someone makes an 18/18/18 and then a 22/22/22, schools will report a 20/20/20 for them even though it was the second one that got them in? That doesn't make any sense. It actually seems like blatant dishonesty.

Sorry for derailing your thread, OP.

Nevertheless, I would recommend sticking with Biomedical Engineering, but only because I don't personally like that people take the easy route to a high GPA. It's cutting corners, or at least running away from a challenge. However, if you're not in love with what you're learning, I guess you don't have any attachment to it.

I agree with Slumber. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to potentially jeopardize your entire future because you want a 'challenge'. Crazy things happen every year and some extremely qualified get rejected all the time. I can't imagine a 'challenge' or 'cutting corners' (which doesn't make any sense) is worth one year of lost earnings or the possibility of never attending dental school. Not to mention that X ugrad degree is completely useless and is used for absolutely nothing once you graduate from DS.

 

[MBlue16]

No, I think he meant that the lower scores will remain the the score pool regardless of how many times someone retake their DAT.

Yeah this...

Datooth was saying that 22 on DAT was 93 percentile, which is high. I was just saying that even though it's 93 percentile, it is 93 percentile of the whole DAT taken (as opposed to the DAT score that is actually used for applying to dental school). Thus, that percentile number isn't the best number to evaluate your competitiveness IMHO.

 

[Ultrafear]

At one of the schools I applied to they give you a score out of 10 for easier comparison among applicants. First you multiply you oGPA by .5 then multiply your sGPA by .75 to get a score out of 5. Then you get a score from 1-5 on the DAT and a 22+ got you a 5. So in my experience a 22 is a great score, literally the best in this scenario.

 

[techyguy]

I agree with Slumber. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to potentially jeopardize your entire future because you want a 'challenge'. Crazy things happen every year and some extremely qualified get rejected all the time. I can't imagine a 'challenge' or 'cutting corners' (which doesn't make any sense) is worth one year of lost earnings or the possibility of never attending dental school. Not to mention that X ugrad degree is completely useless and is used for absolutely nothing once you graduate from DS.

I'm agreeing with you all, but there's no doubt that it is cutting a corner, and taking advantage of a system that doesn't seem to be able to clearly measure difficulty (at least to us). She presumably knows her current degree path, she's seen a challenge, and she's going over there to an easier path --> cutting a corner.

If the OP were truly motivated to succeed in the harder degree, I'm guessing she has the ability to do so (she seems to think she has ability anyway, if d school is her goal). So what's the flaw in our motivation? If she finds no intrinsic love for this field, fine. However, there's the outside chance that since she doesn't like this hard stuff, she won't find any intrinsic value in hard problems down the road. They may not be engineering problems, they may be political, social, or economic problems. There's a lot of benefit to having a general disposition towards fighting through challenges. I'm not in the field just yet, but there's something fundamentally wrong with the prevailing advice to be to try to work the system by doing something easier.

That's the soapbox speech. It's fair to say that when you're just taking your first steps into a field, where missteps have "drastic" consequences, don't trip. There's probably some fuzzy threshold that every school has where they're able to say that 4.0 Music majors succeed at a better rate than 3.25 Chem majors. It's late, so I'm not going to add anymore caveats. I can't personally talk the OP back into biomed...I'm sure if you work to get good at it, you'll find it more enjoyable down the road. If she makes a 3.5+ in Human Bio, good.

Lastly, my apologies to the OP for making this sound a little personal. It seems intriguing that you apparently work as a dental assistant and go to school, so that's a pretty big little challenge.

 

[techyguy]

Yeah this...

Datooth was saying that 22 on DAT was 93 percentile, which is high. I was just saying that even though it's 93 percentile, it is 93 percentile of the whole DAT taken (as opposed to the DAT score that is actually used for applying to dental school). Thus, that percentile number isn't the best number to evaluate your competitiveness IMHO.

Yeah, if only the 90th percentile gets in, you may be in the bottom 3% of them. Actually, every school publishes a DAT average, and IIRC, most schools are still around a 20. A 20 isn't anymore "average mediocrity" than a degree change, but at least we don't pay for the advice around here (mine included).

 

[Slumber]

Yeah, if only the 90th percentile gets in, you may be in the bottom 3% of them. Actually, every school publishes a DAT average, and IIRC, most schools are still around a 20. A 20 isn't anymore "average mediocrity" than a degree change, but at least we don't pay for the advice around here (mine included).

You're right but I was strictly answering the OP's original question of what I would recommend in order for OP to have an easier time when he/she applies. Yes I do always like a good challenge but in this case it is unnecessary risk for OP to take on since her ultimate goal is DS admission. On the other hand, setting his/her goal on a 22+ DAT is never a bad thing because it's risk free.

 

[lemoncurry]

Switch your major if you don't like it. A large number of my classmates were business majors. GPA of 3.5 or above is good, 20 or above is good. Do a major you like and just kick butt on the prereqs.

 

[Faux]

Switch your major if you don't like it. A large number of my classmates were business majors. GPA of 3.5 or above is good, 20 or above is good. Do a major you like and just kick butt on the prereqs.

.

I've seen people's "pride" get themselves into tough situations which they couldn't recover from. Change your major, lighten the load and do as well as you can on the DAT. Even take a study abroad summer session as a treat for yourself.

 

[hunterx2]

DAT and GPA >>>>>>> all. Before you jump to switch majors though, consider then fact that only 40% of applicants are admitted. An engineering degree offers a great backup career in case you don't get in. Of course, you'll have to weigh this against the fact that, as an engineering major, you are probably more intelligent than average, and I'd bet you can pull off a 22+ on the DAT with less effort than most.

 

[LFA20]

4.0 and 30.

All kidding aside, just try to maintain a good 3.5+ gpa and score 22+ on the DAT.

22aa+ on the DAT.. are you kidding? I know you probably have a monstrous DAT scores and 10 + acceptances.. but not everyone lives on SDN land my friend..

 

[supergenius310]

considering the average for Upenn is like 21-22 DAT...yea 22 DAT is huge stretch. Not everyone gets into these schools and the SDN pool is VERY small, even though it may seem very big. Only people with stellar scores seem to post on the forums...you don't see very many 16, 17, 18 AAs do you?

 

[ModifiedBass]

This argument is completely pointless. Average GPA is 3.5, average accepted DAT is 19.8. That's it, move on. Aim for higher in both and you'll probably have more success, imagine that.

Also, the major doesn't matter and it's not cutting corners, get off your high horse.

 

[techyguy]

Also, the major doesn't matter and it's not cutting corners, get off your high horse.

How can you say it's not cutting corners? That's not even what should be up for debate here. Is Biomedical Engineering harder than any other major the OP is likely to land on? It almost certainly is. There are multiple paths to gaining admission, and we're telling her to deviate from her current one and try something that doesn't include such a hard major.

If we can actually agree on that, then we can advance to the important questions. Does this matter to adcoms? The consensus is that it doesn't. Should it matter? That will require a whole different thread, but I stated part of my case above (likely no, but I don't have the numbers).

Is it polite to tell somebody they're taking an easier route and label it as "cutting corners"? No, but I didn't press the matter until I was called out on it. It's apparently not a convenient truth for a few pre-dents in this thread to admit to, either.

It's a completely different kind of high horse to climb up on to shout down the one person in a thread showing any concern for academic rigor when you apparently haven't parsed the arguments properly.

 

[ModifiedBass]

How can you say it's not cutting corners? That's not even what should be up for debate here. Is Biomedical Engineering harder than any other major the OP is likely to land on? It almost certainly is. There are multiple paths to gaining admission, and we're telling her to deviate from her current one and try something that doesn't include such a hard major.

If we can actually agree on that, then we can advance to the important questions. Does this matter to adcoms? The consensus is that it doesn't. Should it matter? That will require a whole different thread, but I stated part of my case above (likely no, but I don't have the numbers).

Is it polite to tell somebody they're taking an easier route and label it as "cutting corners"? No, but I didn't press the matter until I was called out on it. It's apparently not a convenient truth for a few pre-dents in this thread to admit to, either.

It's a completely different kind of high horse to climb up on to shout down the one person in a thread showing any concern for academic rigor when you apparently haven't parsed the arguments properly.

Is it harder? Can't say from experience. Probably, but what does that matter? The end goal is to get into dental school. What would be the point in getting a degree in biomedical engineering if the OP isn't going to use it and isn't passionate about it? Also, why would it matter to adcoms if the classes aren't correlated to dental school classes? If the 'academically rigorous major' is not something the OP wishes to study, and if their GPA suffers because of it, what's achieved if it hurts their dental school application? Absolutely nothing. Plenty of pre-dents choose majors like biology and chemistry which I wouldn't say are easy routes and they're the majority of accepted applicants.

 

[cassiewright]

Ok I have decided to stick with the Biomedical Engineering degree because my GPA is actually turning out to be ok based on what you are all telling me. I like it being a back-up plan and I am actually enjoying the actual engineering portion of the major. I hate calculus and physics that's my problem with the major.
Now the DAT, how do you go about studying for that? I believe my major covers most of the material on it? When do have to take it. I really dont know much about admissions obviously aha might need to talk to the dentist i work for for more advice.