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NEED HONEST OPINION!!!!

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Dr. Don, May 13, 2002.

  1. Dr. Don

    Dr. Don Senior Member

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    ok, so for the regular SDNers, you all know my sotry, and my stats. After all this time, I have to realize that I was a "weak" applicant and although I have great EC, clinical, letters of rec, life stories, but not so great GPA/MCAT (science 3.1, overall 3.4/26P) alot of schools gave me the boot. I don't blame them..they don't know that their missing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . So unless a miracle happens and UCLA/DREW hooks it up with an acceptance, I will have to reapply next year. So here is a hypothical situation that I need your help on. So, I'll retake the MCAT this august and most likely score around the 28-32 range (with a high verbal!). I'll be doing a post bac, so most likely my science gpa for the post bac classes will be around 3.5+. I have excellent letters of rec and will get another one from my PI in human genetics. EC...forget about it, they're cool. So I was thinking of applying to these schools next year:
    California: all the UCs, USC, Stanford
    D.C: George Washington, Howard
    Georgia: Emory, Moorehouse
    Illinois: University of Illinois, Pritzker, Norhtwestern, Finch, Rush, Loyola stritch
    Massachusets: Boston U
    Michigan: U. Michigan, Michigan State, Wayne State
    Missouri: St. Louis, Wright U
    NY: Columbia, Cornell, NYMC, NYU
    North Carolina: Wake Forest
    Puerto Rico: Ponce School of Medicine, U. Puerto Rico
    Vermont: U. Vermont
    Virginia: VCU

    this year I applied to 20 schools, and I only received 1 interview. So what do you think, is this a good range? I know it's a lot of schools, so this is where you guys come in with your advice. I will like to narrow it down to 20-25 schools, but I also want to keep a good range of reach schools to "guaranteed" (if there is such a thing :) schools). I am a california resident, non-URM according to AMCAs, but I am latino and will apply disadvantaged. anyways, your advice will be greatly appreciate it, thank you,
     
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  3. u2ecila

    u2ecila Senior Member

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    It sounds like you have a good plan. You need to seriously kick butt on the MCAT, and get over a 30. Also, you should take additional science courses and get A's in them to bring up the 3.1 science GPA.
    good luck,
    u2ecila
     
  4. sendwich

    sendwich you rock!

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    where are you thinking about doing a post-bac? isn't it a bit late in the year to be applying? the reason why i'm asking is that i feel that im in the same boat as you. any info would be very helpful!!
     
  5. WonderBoy

    Physician

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    Dr. Don, are you going to apply to a program designed for those who have already taken premed courses but need to raise their gpa's? If so, I think it is a bit late to apply to those program or even a post-bac program. I know I check out the former type of program they have the MCP, they wanted applications in Jan. or Feburary. :(

    Overall your plan could work. My stats are similar to yours, just a bit lower. Good luck.
     
  6. Mr.D

    Mr.D insipidus maximus

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    It's not really that late to apply to a post-bac, at least not in California. UCLA's and UCSD's postbac dealines are May 31 and June 1, respectively. Moreover, they're open to people who have or haven't completed their pre-med requirements. Hope this helps.
     
  7. Blazed

    Blazed Senior Member

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    I am on three waitlists, and I am already planning to reapply just in case nothing works out. My GPA is not that great 3.3 overall, and 3.2 BCPM. My science courses are basically like this Physics 2 I got a C and Org 1 I got a C, the rest are all A's. I am also a Bio major so i have taken Micro (B+), and Biochem (A). My mcat is 27R. I am a URM. I am going to take the MCAT again in August. I have tons of EC's and great research. My question is what should I do to rise my GPA? Post Bac or extra courses in higher level science courses such as Nuero physiology, and histology? Damn I hope I get off a waitlist, I can't stand this application process.
     
  8. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats

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    Do you want city life or suburban or rural?

    Why don't you include Einstein and Mount Sinai on your list of New York schools?
     
  9. RT

    RT Rt

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    Regarding the MCAT, my advice is don't take it until you're fully ready because this is probably the quickest, yet most reliable way of showing that you could handle competitive course work. Make sure you know your exact ability before sitting for the real one. You could gain such insights from aamc exams. Only take it once you've obtained your desired scores. Personally, I find it best to disregard excuses such as luck or even "miss a certain score by only a question".

    Attending a Postbac program would help.

    For your school list, perhaps you could apply to more schools that place less emphasis on numerical factors.
     
  10. ussdfiant

    Physician Moderator Emeritus

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    Might I also suggest expanding your range of schools to include osteopathic schools.
     
  11. Aria111

    Aria111 Senior Member

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    I would suggest applying to Meharry as well. Their program is awesome and although Tennessee is scary, I was pleasantly surprised by Nashville when I visited. The school is great, and the people there make it even better...it can't hurt to apply and it will expand your range of schools. Also, they focus on care to the underserved, which (i think you mentioned somewhere) is a focus for you.

    good luck!

    ps- average MCAT at Meharry is in the mid 20s
     
  12. Jalby

    Jalby I fight crime at day when Batman are sleeping.

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    California: all the UCD, UCS,D UCI, USC, Stanford
    D.C: George Washington, Howard
    Georgia: Moorehouse
    Illinois: University of Illinois, Finch, Rush, Loyola stritch
    Massachusets: Boston U
    Michigan: Michigan State, Wayne State
    Missouri: St. Louis, Wright U
    NY: NYMC
    North Carolina: Wake Forest
    Puerto Rico: Ponce School of Medicine, U. Puerto Rico
    Vermont: U. Vermont
    Virginia: VCU

    Hey Don. I eliminate some schools which I don't think you would able to get an interview at even with strait A's in the post-back and a 30 MCAT. I would recommend actually waiting a year before applying so your grades will be there by the time you turn in your aplication. Some other schools that I think you should apply to:

    The SUNY schools. Loma Linda (I think your an SDA) Crieghton. Meherry.
     
  13. jmejia1

    jmejia1 Senior Member

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    I agree with Jalbrekt in eliminating the NY, Illinois, and UMich schools/school he eliminated. But I would re-add Emory and UCLA.

    In addition, I would eliminate both Boston and NYMC cuz they are too saturated with applicants and I added a couple schools to your list, including Albany and Albert Einstiein. Also, MCP Hahneman, Iowa, Crieghton, and Kansas.

    California: UCD, UCSD, UCI, USC, Stanford, UCLA
    D.C: George Washington, Howard
    Georgia: Emory, Moorehouse
    Illinois: University of Illinois, Finch, Rush,
    Loyola stritch
    Kansas: Kansas U
    Iowa: Iowa U
    Michigan: Michigan State, Wayne State
    Missouri: St. Louis, Wright U
    Nebraska: Creighton
    NY: Albany, Albert Einstein, SUNY schools.
    North Carolina: Wake Forest
    Pennsylvania: MCP Hahneman
    Puerto Rico: Ponce School of Medicine, U. Puerto Rico
    Vermont: U. Vermont
    Virginia: VCU
     
  14. analu

    analu Senior Member

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    Hi Dr.Don,

    Are you considering a MCAT prep class (like Kaplan or TPR)? I think nailing the MCAT is top priority for you now...my GPA was 2.8, but my MCAT (34Q) got me into the interview stage and ultimately an acceptance!

    Here's my recommendations for next year's application (assuming no further action this year):

    California: UC schools, USC, Stanford, Loma Linda
    D.C: George Washington, Howard
    Georgia: Morehouse
    Illinois: Finch, Loyola Stritch
    Louisiana: Tulane
    Massachusetts: Tufts
    Michigan: Wayne State
    Missouri: St. Louis
    Nebraska: Creighton
    NY: Albany, Albert Einstein, NYMC, Rochester
    NC: Wake Forest
    Ohio: Cincinnati, Ohio State, Wright State
    Pennsylvania: Jefferson, MCP Hahnemann, Penn State, Temple
    Tennessee: Meharry
    Vermont: U. Vermont
    Virginia: VCU
    Wisconsin: MCW

    Tried to eliminate schools with strong state resident preferences (heard that Ohio State and Cincy have loosened up their out-of-state quotas) and have listed schools which have been mentioned favorably by SDNers (adcoms looking beyond numbers, seeking to add diversity, favorable treatment to non-trads, etc.)

    Good Luck!
     
  15. Dr. Don

    Dr. Don Senior Member

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    thank you for the advise people!!! I will be doing the post bac program at UCLA. Also, isn't it true that the SUNY schools only take NY residents? As far as applying to albert einstein, they don't really like reapplicants, so I won't consider applying to their school again. Mt. Sinai was one of those schools that told me straight out that unless I have a 30 MCAT and 3.5 or better, they won't look at my application...so screw them too! thanks for playing around with my list of schools. I know I can definitely score higher than a 26 on this upcoming MCAT (especially better than a 6 on the verbal!). I know I can rock the post-bac science courses, because like I said before, the only reason why my SCIENCE GPA is low is because of my first year of college. I rocked my classes ever since, but I guess my improvement was not good enough for some schools (if not all!). if you have something to add or advice to give, go ahead, THANK YOU,
     
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  17. analu

    analu Senior Member

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    Dr.Don,

    If you haven't already, check out the "brag about your low GPA" thread for stories about how some SDNers overcame their less than stellar grades (including my own)!

    Best of luck! :cool:
     
  18. dude7

    dude7 Senior Member

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    hey its tough no doubt about it. You are applying to many state school..such as mich state wayne state. SO you might be looked down upon for that. BUt on the bright side, i do think you have a great great shot if your plan works accordingly.
     
  19. jmejia1

    jmejia1 Senior Member

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    I speak from experience and from other's I know personally and I'm sure Analu has legite reasons to deleting certain schools, but I can't disagree much more with his/her choice of removing Michigan State, Univ. of Illnois, Rush, Iowa, and Kansas from your list.

    Yes we all know about in-state preference, but these particular schools highly recruit Latino students, including out-of-state. Everyone else applies to Boston, NYMC, Tufts etc because they take large numbers of out-of-states, but then they end up with 9000 applications; whereas, the above state-schools get a fraction of those applications and end up admitting a decent number of out-of-state.

    As a California resident, I was offered interviews at Michigan State, Iowa, Univ. Illinois. I din't apply to Kansas or Rush, but a girl with sub-par scores got interviews there, and she's a California resident.
     
  20. sandflea

    sandflea Senior Member

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    rush doesn't have as aggressive a latino recruitment effort as does UIC (u of illinois), which prides itself on its extensive diversity, and even though it is a private school, it is still 80-85% illinois residents. your friend may have just been extremely lucky, jmejia, and not necessarily representative of how rush recruits students--i hate to say it, but rush just doesn't have the most diverse student body. neither does loyola. UIC, on the other hand, is 90% in-state but actively recruits out-of-state minority students, so among the chicago schools, it's by FAR your best bet, and i would encourage you to apply there. so i would still leave rush off the list but keep UIC on it. keep in mind, dr don, that the fact that you are not an underrepresented latino ethinicity (i.e. not a URM) may not score you any extra points at some schools, who are only looking to recruit mexican americans or puerto ricans.

    i adamantly agree that you should take at least a years' worth of post-bacc classes before you even bother to apply. otherwise you are essentially applying with the same GPA that got you rejected this year. you won't have any new grades to prove yourself until december, and i don't know of a single school that will recalculate your GPA based on any new grades--the GPA that you indicate on your AMCAS app is the one that follows you through the entire application cycle, regardless of how many additional classes you take in the meantime.
     
  21. Dr. Don

    Dr. Don Senior Member

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    you know what? you guys are right!!! If I reapply, I will eventually be applying with a 3.1 science GPA, which is definitely not a good indication of how good of a student I am. So I think I will just apply to cali schools (save myself some money). I did get secondaries from most of them with "weak" numbers, so when I send those in, I'll send an updated transcript with my A's (hopefully!) in my post bac classes, and then pray for an interview. After all...I would like to stay in cali for med school....Then if it doesn't work out, I will have to reapply again (damn that would suck!) to a lot of schools! but this time with better grades, better MCATs, better life experiences...BETTER EVERTYHING, and DAMN IT I BETTER GET IN THE 3RD TIME AROUND!!! so what do you guys think of my plan?
     
  22. Mr.D

    Mr.D insipidus maximus

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    Dr. Don,

    I wouldn't recommend that you apply this year only to the California schools simply becasue you want to give it a shot while you're completing your post-bac classes. As it is, even with straight A's in 3 upper division science classes this fall, your GPA wouldn't go up by more that 1/10 of a GPA point or so (given you've already graduated and accumulated a lot of units). Now your MCAT could be your saving grace if you manage to break a 30, but even then it would still be a gamble. I suggest you contact the UC schools that rejected you and ask them what areas they suggest your should work on to strengthen your application next time. If they all agree that it's your MCAT scores, then you know what to do. If they say both the MCAT and grades, then probably take the year off and concentrate on your MCAT and grades and then reapply. I feel it's better to apply with your best possible chances to get in (best MCAT/grades), not just one of those. Good luck.
     
  23. sandflea

    sandflea Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by aesculapian:
    <strong> I feel it's better to apply with your best possible chances to get in (best MCAT/grades), not just one of those. Good luck.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i totally agree. it's more time out of your life, dr don, but i would wait on applying ANYWHERE until you bring your science GPA up, even if this means waiting two years or more while you continue taking classes. you want to maximize your chances of getting in when you do apply, not just improve your app halfway and then pray that you manage to squeak by. it's hard enough getting in with decent stats--when you have distinct weak points in your app, it's even more difficult, especially getting into cali schools, which reject many, many people with pretty good stats. when you do apply, you want to do it right, and the best way to do this is to reapply when you have a GPA that will make adcoms question why they rejected you in the first place.
     
  24. jmejia1

    jmejia1 Senior Member

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    about Rush, our Premed advisor encourages Latino students to apply to Rush as well. Rush may not have a diverse student-body because the Latino students they accept end up picking another school. Chicago is teeming with a large Latino population, and Univ. of Illinois can't keep up with the pace.

    Don, you're my bro, so I want you to succeed. Applying again with the same application to ONLY California schools is not a good idea. sending them grade updates from Post-baccs is usually done to increase your chances after you have been granted an interview. they make interview offers mostly based on AMCAS.

    You need to revamp your application (e.g. new Personal Statement, a couple more good grades under your belt, and maybe re-take the MCAT). I can imagine this sounds daunting, but this is more of a sure-fire way. Also, like nearly all Cali people, we want to stay in-state, but you have to be willing to go anywhere if you want to be a doctor. i know this is hard because you are married, but I'm sure things can be arranged.

    Anyway, I hope Drew works out so you don't have to reapply.
     
  25. WonderBoy

    Physician

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    Dr. Don,

    I was just curious, what is the name of the program at UCLA you will be attending. I was trying to find it on their website cause I need to do something like that since my science gpa is around 3.0 Or if anyone else knows of programs that are still accepting applications for the fall of 2002? Thanks
     
  26. Kashmar

    Kashmar Junior Member

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    Make every effort to strengthen all aspects of your profile before reapplying. Don't treat the application process lightly. You will find that every additional application attempt will work against you because many schools rapidly lose interest in applicants who have applied several times. You may see diminished returns with any improvements if you continue reapplying. Buckle down and good luck!
     
  27. C U in MD school

    C U in MD school Senior Member

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    hey don,i applied to albany, mcv and tulane. i got a interview at all schools and i got into albany. i dont have great gpa and my mcat score is 27 (7 verbal). good lukc with your post back and applying again.
     
  28. Cure Finder

    Cure Finder Member

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    Hey Dr. Don,
    I agree with Kashmar when it comes to the issue of reapplying too soon and too many times. However my real reason for posting is just to offer you words of encouragements. I've been a silent viewer of SDN for the majority of this year's application process. Although, I have to admit that your ability to cheer on and congratulate other SDN members when they were accepted, has impressed me on numerous occasions. So Dr. Don I'm going to cross my fingers and pray that you get in off of the wait-list. I truly believe that you deserve it. However, irregardless of how things turn out just remember that there's someone out here cheering for you. <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Clappy]" title="" src="graemlins/clappy.gif" />
     
  29. sandflea

    sandflea Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by jmejia1:
    <strong> Chicago is teeming with a large Latino population, and Univ. of Illinois can't keep up with the pace.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">well, by this logic, then there is no incentive for rush to accept out-of-state latino students, considering they heavily prefer illinois residents. if there are truly more chicago-area latino students than UIC alone can 'handle' (and you don't know that the large latino population necessarily translates into lots of med school applications), and rush wants illinois residents more than any one else, it makes more sense that they would turn to area latinos, not actively recruit those from other states.

    while they don't advertise them, schools often have minority quotas in order to fulfill their 'diversity requirements'--which vary from school to school--so if X number of latino students turn a school down then the adcom will often turn to the waitlist and accept X number more latinos (or any other minority). just because there aren't a lot of minority students it doesn't necessarily mean that many were accepted but decided to go elsewhere.
     
  30. hawkeyes

    hawkeyes Senior Member

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    Dr. Don, just my $0.02 - I would consider applying to more schools. 20-25 I think is an average number for the average applicant. Personally, I would not want to apply more than once.. it is too painful a process to repeat if it can be helped, and really, investing more time and money into applying with full force this next time, I think, will be well worth saving yourself a third year of applying (though many do and are all the more to be commending becuase of their committment). I would expand your list to at least 30. I don't think that 40 is excessive. The money you spend on these extra 10-20 apps is very small compared to the money you spend on another years worth of applications. (not to mention an extra year of lost wages)
     
  31. reesie0726

    reesie0726 Senior Member

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    I agree with many of the above posters, Dr. Don. Take heed i had a similar gpa and got in. This was after breaking 30 on the mcat, doing postbac at my local state university earning all A's. So it worked for me and I am sure that it could work for you. You need to show the med schools at least a year of solid postbac, recent academic performance along with a good mcat score, then your chances will be greatly improved. I agree that you should wait til next year to apply after having a postbac year done and getting a good mcat.
     
  32. vkrn

    vkrn Senior Member

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    What about CASE? Case Western Reserve looks highly upon diversity and interesting experiences. It's an excellent school with a laid-back grading system compared to others. I interviewed with the former dean of students, and he was lamenting the fact that they did not have high numbers of URMs applying (I am not a URM, but we were just talking about URM issues).

    I'll add Case:

    California: UC schools, USC, Stanford, Loma Linda
    D.C: George Washington, Howard
    Georgia: Morehouse
    Illinois: Finch, Loyola Stritch
    Louisiana: Tulane
    Massachusetts: Tufts
    Michigan: Wayne State
    Missouri: St. Louis
    Nebraska: Creighton
    NY: Albany, Albert Einstein, NYMC, Rochester
    NC: Wake Forest
    Ohio: CASE Western Reserve, Cincinnati, Ohio State, Wright State
    Pennsylvania: Jefferson, MCP Hahnemann, Penn State, Temple
    Tennessee: Meharry
    Vermont: U. Vermont
    Virginia: VCU
    Wisconsin: MCW
     
  33. Jalby

    Jalby I fight crime at day when Batman are sleeping.

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    And I would take Case right back off the list. I don't think Don has a chance to get an interview there. That's Baylor21's only pre-int rejection. I think Case really looks for EXTREMELY interesting candidates, and I don't think Don falls into that catagory.
     
  34. jmejia1

    jmejia1 Senior Member

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    I would take Case off the list as well. I interviewed at Stanford and UCSF and will interview at UCLA soon, yet I was slapped on the face with a pre-interview rejection by Case Western. This was also my first rejection and one of a very few. SMW also got rejected by Case and she landed all kinds of interviews, including Columbia.
     
  35. Dr. Don

    Dr. Don Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Jalbrekt:
    <strong>And I would take Case right back off the list. I don't think Don has a chance to get an interview there. That's Baylor21's only pre-int rejection. I think Case really looks for EXTREMELY interesting candidates, and I don't think Don falls into that catagory.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">well I don't know what you mean by extremely interesting people, but thank you for being honest. CASE wasn't really one of my choices to begin with. My physics professor went to CASE and from what he told me, I'll rather go somewhere else. CONGRATULATIONS JOE!!! you are going to interview at UCLA?! that's tight bro, show them what you are made of kid!
    THIS IS THE LATEST NEWS on UCLA/DREW...THERE ARE NO MORE INTERVIEWS GIVEN, EVERYONE HAS BEEN REVIEWED and will receive something in the mail within the next two weeks...I will probably receive something this week because I interviewed in early april, so people this it....I'll keep everyone updated, take care
     
  36. Dr. Don

    Dr. Don Senior Member

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    hey peeps, I noticed that in the updated list, the Puerto Rico medical schools are off the list...is this a typo or did you guys actually have a reason why I shouldn't apply there? Do they have strong state residents preference or what? thanks for the info and if anybody else has any more advise, let me know. I will meet with one of the Deans at USC in the middle of June to discuss my file and see what I can do to improve my chances of getting in next year, take care
     
  37. mpp

    mpp SDN Moderator
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    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    The Puerto Rican schools are a great choice for latinos and chicanos. Because the average admissions criteria are slightly lower, you'll have a great chance of being accepted (they only get about 700 application for more than 100 spots). Puerto Rico is a beautiful place to live and much cheaper than elsewhere in the Carribean or in the states. The tuition is a bargain for LCME accredited intitutions (non-resident tuition is only $10,000, resident $5,000 for UPR).
     

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