Need some advice for my mission to learn O-Chem

[mmapcpro]

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I took 8 credits of chemistry for engineers 4 years ago. The credits wouldn't transfer exactly, so I just decided to go ahead and take general chem 1 and 2 anyway.

I figured it would be a good review, and since I"m in a community college right now (have to be here to finish spanish 1 and 2 before the university will allow me to transfer in, despite my 90 credits with 3.9gpa in engineering school), I didn't want to take organic there, as I've been advised against it.

Anyway, I've been looking at my time line to apply to dental school, and I think I should be taking the DAT before the end of this year. The problem is, that based on the timeline, I'll be taking organic 1 in the fall, and then organic 2 next spring, which screws that plan up.

So I'd like to buy a good organic chem textbook (preferably one that teaches concepts), and then a review/problems book to work out tons of problems. I think with my chemistry and physics background, I should be able to understand organic chemistry.

I'm no stranger to learning things on my own out of books...I've had plenty of classes that drove me crazy sitting in the lecture because all we did was go over homework that I already learned how to do on my own, so I just relied on the texts and the problems.

I'd like to start NOW and even if it takes me till august, I'm sure I"ll get it. Even if I have to crack open my general chem book often to touch up on concepts, I can do it.

Of course, I'll still take the courses in the sequence because admissions wants them on the transcript.

Any suggestions on texts and materials to buy? I think I've seen positive comments on Wade as far as a text is concerned, and EK 1001 for problems.

I REALLY want to get into dental school, and I know that I need to slam dunk the DAT to do so...I just don't want to get alzheimers before I get there. I think I can do this....

If you point me in the right direction 🙂

Thanks

 

[spooky42]

I took organic about 5 years ago and didnt really remember too much of it and took the dat last year. get the big kaplan book and study the organic from it. They have all the material you need for the test. also get the topscore cd for practice.

I recommend studying and going over the reactions with someone. it helps.

 

[Pontifex Maximus]

The McMurry textbook isn't bad. Thats the only one I have experience with, though.

 

[Blackstars]

mmapcpro,

There is a review book called "organic chemistry edge" by Kaplan. It's a great book for learning the concepts of o-chem. hope this helps.

 

[mmapcpro]

Thanks for the tips...I really appreciate it.

I'm such a geek, I'm having a hissy-fit because I have to wait until next friday to buy the books, heh.

 

[captaintripps]

McMurry, I skipped the lectures for the entire second semester of Ochem and learned it from this textbook. Good enough to get a B. Hope it works.

 

[mmapcpro]

Seems as though the university I'm planning on transferring to uses McMurray, so there's a possibility that I'll get to use the same book when I get there this coming fall...I was able to look it up on efollet.com.

So McMurray it is, I guess...

 

[Andrew_Doan]

I approached O-Chem by learning the nomenclature first and then by learning the individual steps for synthesis. Try to view it like lego pieces and learn how to put the pieces together to get from point A to point Z.

I found making flash cards as I read the chapters helped greatly. Use the flash cards to reinforce your learning.

Good luck! 👍

 

[ItsGavinC]

Optho Mud Phud, spreading your wings into other arenas, are we? 😀

 

[Thaxil]

There are some simple ways to tackle organic chem. I did well in organic and general. I would say that organic is easier.

My method of studying organic chemistry:
Most importantly read the chapters!! Do not do what a lot of other students did in my class; only focusing on the review at the need of the chapter. By only focusing on the review, one misses out on all the conceptual knowledge that is explained in the readings. By understanding subjects like nucleophilic strength, carbon cation stability, resonates stabilization of charges, and induction, one can see connections between reactions and view the list of twenty reaction at the back of the chapter as a list of different molecules using the same reaction.

I find the majority of the people who have problems with organic chem. rely on pure memorization. This is not the way to do it! I studied hard trying to understand the concepts during the first semesters, but did not even study during the second because the second semester only repeated the same concept but in a more enveloped way.

I can go on trying to convince you as I did with the students that I tutored. There are no short cuts; if you rely on memory you will have a tough time memorizing 35 reaction for each chapter and memorizing the previous chapters reactions for the synthesis problems.

 

[Thaxil]

I think with my chemistry and physics background, I should be able to understand organic chemistry.

Wrong! G-Chem and Physics is absolutely not related to Organic chemistry. If you take the course you will never use a calculator. No math what so ever. There are some basic thing you may have learned in G-chem like lewis structures, and some other, but for the most part 95% will be new.

 

[mmapcpro]

Well I appreciate your input, Thaxil.

 

[accidental]

This might help - check out my ASU Ochem I professor's website from last semester.*click here* He posts all of the tests and practice problems with the answer keys. Depending on your instructor this will give you a good idea of what to expect for your exams.

Also, if you don't click with your professor, find a good tutor. I did and I stopped going to class after the first few weeks and I still managed get an A. If I relied just on the book and professor I would have easily got a C or D. A good tutor makes all the difference.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Originally posted by ItsGavinC
Optho Mud Phud, spreading your wings into other arenas, are we? 😀

I was screening posts and didn't realize it was in pre-dental until after I submitted the link! 🙂

😉

 

[toothache]

someone told me to that it would be more appropiate if you would post in the dat discussion next time....

 

[ohcdn]

Originally posted by owusu-dentist
mmapcpro,

There is a review book called "organic chemistry edge" by Kaplan. It's a great book for learning the concepts of o-chem. hope this helps.

dont bother if you already have the big kaplan book. Organic edge is virtually the same thing!!

 

[blankguy]

Anybody use solomon & Fryhle 8th edition text?
What do you think of this book?

 

[preludexl]

Originally posted by Andrew_Doan
I approached O-Chem by learning the nomenclature first and then by learning the individual steps for synthesis. Try to view it like lego pieces and learn how to put the pieces together to get from point A to point Z.

I found making flash cards as I read the chapters helped greatly. Use the flash cards to reinforce your learning.

Good luck! 👍

That's the best way to learn, flashcards. Dont bother trying to memorize the reaction pathways! Thats the secret to beating O Chem. I made over 70 note cards...I took a piece of paper and folded it into business size squares, and cut them out, so I'd have like 20 cards from 1 sheet of paper. I paperclip it and carry it in my pant pocket. I whip it out while waiting, sitting in the bathroom, etc. Quite handy. You'll have it memorized in no time. Took me like 3 days. (But I loved O chem in undergrad so.)

 

[speter33]

If you can really study organic on your own I'll give you mad props. I think orgo is really one of those classes that you need to be in class for. There's a ton of reactions to memorize and I can't see anyone doing it unless you are studying for a test. I think you can prep yourself for the DAT orgo but it will be really tough. You should really take at least orgo I before the DAT. Note this is coming from a student who also covered a lot of studying on his own. I barely came to lecture for all of bio.

 

[iudentist04]

If you want some great practice after you learn the basics buy exam krackers 1001 organic MCAT Questions. I know It says MCAT, but it is actually better prep for the DAT do to the strait question and answer format. This book just pounds concepts into your head by repeatition. It's worth it. Check amazon used books.

 

[preludexl]

Originally posted by speter33
If you can really study organic on your own I'll give you mad props. I think orgo is really one of those classes that you need to be in class for. There's a ton of reactions to memorize and I can't see anyone doing it unless you are studying for a test. I think you can prep yourself for the DAT orgo but it will be really tough. You should really take at least orgo I before the DAT. Note this is coming from a student who also covered a lot of studying on his own. I barely came to lecture for all of bio.

Well he HAS to take O chem before applying to dental school, isnt that one of the pre-reqs? 1 year bio 1 year g chem 1 year o chem 1 year physics? I took everything including how to make a ham sandwich so.🙄

But you can def learn O chem w/o going to class, you will need a tutor to teach you the basics. I shouldnt over generalize. You can pass the DAT w/o taking a O chem class if you have someone to teach you the basics, and memorize all the reactions by yourself. After you learn the basics of leaving groups and attacking groups, aka base and nuc., you can pretty much just start memorizing reactions. But seriously, there ARE no mechanisms on the DAT. It's all reactions. Heck I dont remember there being a mechanism question in the MCAT when I took it.

 

[mmapcpro]

I think maybe I didn't explain myself well.

I AM going to take organic 1 and 2 before dental school.

My motivation is the fact that ds admissions is only once a year. So I'm trying to take the DAT this year so that I can TRY to avoid the 9-month useless wait. Seeing as I am 30 years old and married with 2 children, I'm not really looking to backpack in Europe during that time. So I'd just as soon do without.

Tutoring is a possible option as I need it. I'm just going to do the best I can...If I'm not successful, then I'll know I gave it my best effort...

If I don't try, I'll always wonder if I could have done it and saved myself alot of time.

Basically, since I'm bored stiff in general chem because I've already DONE IT and got an A, I honestly think I'm ready for organic chemistry...I'm just ready before the timeline is ready to teach me...

and that's why I'm looking to undertake this endeavor. I hope this makes more sense, and you realize that I'm not looking to "cut corners"...if anything, I'm putting MORE work on my plate.

Would anybody consider learning and getting an A in calc-based physics 1, 2, and 3 from books (without lecture) very difficult? How would you compare with the organic that's needed for the DAT?

 

[mmapcpro]

I showed these problems from my chemistry for engineers final exam to my gen chem professor this semester, and he commented, "whoah, those are tough!"

1) Suppose the following generalized reaction is AT EQUILIBRIUM in a closed, expandable container:

xA(aq) + 2B(?) <==> yC(aq) + 2D(?)

It is observed that adding H2O(l) displaces the reaction in the FORWARD direction; reducing external pressure so that any gases present will expand has NO EFFECT on the equilibrium position of the reaction. What can be concluded about the numerical values of "x" and "y" AND about the phases of substances "B" and "D"?


2) N2H4(g) + 3O2(g) --> 2NO2(g) + 2H2O(g)

When .212 mole N2H4(g) is reacted with some O2(g) in a closed expandable container kept at 320'C, 1 atm, the final total pressure exerted by the product gases is 58.1936kPa. If there are 11.306 grams of O2(g) left at the end of the reaction, what mass of O2(g) was initially put into the reaction mixture with N2H4(g)?

3) When 6.28g of solid hydroxide at 21'C is dropped into 120mL of 1.3083 M nitric acid(aq) at 21.0'C, a solution of sodium nitrite is formed at 37.8'C. What is the value of deltaH for the reaction below:

NaOH(aq) + HNO3(aq) --> NaNO3(aq) + H2O(l)

NaOH(s): FW = 40g/mole; deltaH for the solution = -38kJ/mole

0.54M NaNO3(aq) = 4.05Cp
1.12M NaNO3(aq) = 3.92Cp
1.31M NaNO3(aq) = 3.80Cp

Fun stuff

 

[Thaxil]

Yeah, sometimes expectation at a CC are very low of their students. This is very sad. I know that this students are more then capable. I attended a community college for my G-chem and Organic. I know my professors expected a lot. Now I help people at my university with there problems in this subjects. In some classes, the university is easier because you can fall back on the curve. However, it was a straight 90,80,70 at my CC.

The problems you posted seem to be the average problems my G-chem professor would expect us to know.

O-chem compared to calculus-physics: I hate calculus and physic. I can do math, but I choose not to. I hear that people good in physic suck in organic. I guess the reason for this is the lack of math and equation. I do not see the reason for this. In both it is all about conceptual knowledge. However, in organic chem. the concepts are usually not quantifiable as in physic. Because of this, you may hear professors trying to explain things differently. When describing reaction professors may use word like happy and sad to explain the actions of molecule in a reaction. It is a bit silly if you are a number person.